A word of advise to all: respect thy elders. they might in your estimate be in the wrong today and on the opposite to your line of thinking, but in retrospect, they are almost always in the right. politicians however are 'gabal daye'.

Do not even get me started with that. there is no asking these guys how Burco is being resided and divided along clan lines (do not mean to revisit 1996-1997). Ceerigaabo is the same and more pronounced. Hargeysa is a little bit subtle, but again resided along clan lines. ask Siilaanyo and his boys from Burco what happens to them in Hargeysa. there are areas they are not allowed to reside without a kafiil (excuse the pun). how about berbera - the marks left behind by Egal are still there. Muqdisho is the same. Kismayo is worse. and the list goes on.

that is a fallacy.

A fair request brother. tell you what, let us save that for another day. Carafaat;806284 wrote: I skipped arabic lessons and cant understand arabic. So please try and explain in somali or english. Really appreciate if you could explain and make me understand. Cause Duke couldnt, he mummbles something about clans.

maxay? Carafaat;806270 wrote: ilaa meeqo sano?

Carafaat, Ina adeer wadne qabad baad tahay, si kasta oo wax laguugu sheegana maqli maysid, marka ha ina xiijine inaga daa. wixiina maad fahamsanid, in laguu sharaxaana sannaday qaadansaa, anna tabar uma hayo hadda, markaa waa in aan iska ka daayaa. waxayse belo ka dhacday sdii gaas dhagoolihii ayaa qarda-jeex meel kasta ku maraysaa, waar ka joog haddii lagu yiraana maqli maysid. Cidina ma diinada in 'security incidents' ay ka dhacaan Galkacyo. cidina ma diidana in midnimo iyo horumar loo baahan yahay. Galkacyo airport marna laguma dilin 27 qof. waxaan aad il-wareedyada ku sheegaysaa waa cantara-baqash ciyaal 15 jirra ahi ay internetka ay ku qoreen. Tan midnimada Galkacyo waqti dheer bay igu qaadanaysaa in aan ku fahamsiiyo, laakiin hadda maya. Let me give you another clue: Si aad u fahamto waxaan ka hadlayo, galkacyo 95% iyo 5% ayay u qaybsan tahay. bal ka fikir sababta somalida deggan 95% magaaladu ay u ogolaadeen in 5% ay maamul kale samaystaan? and ttw, it has something to do with somalinimo and unity, but you will not get that.

Let us leave there for now, and when you get tangible info other than woven heresy, I might just oblige you.

Again you need basic schooling in these complex affairs, and i will not even try it. Here is the hint again. Let me give you a hint: there is a concept called 'iraadat al shacab', which is a core component of national unity, but that might be an alien concept to you.

I think you are here to be schooled, but it is a tall order, which could take for months to explain to you, but I will not even try. Let me give you a hint: there is a concept called 'iraadat al shacab', which is a core component of national unity, but that might be an alien concept to you.

You are so incorrigible. No body was killed at Galkacyo airport. the incident you are referring to happened last year in the western district of the city (Garsoor). Again, i plead with you to refrain from speaking stuff you do not know anything about, and please find other sources of info other than google.

Xishoonba mayside, "to leave your clan thinking behind." And there I thought you could be serious, but then you disappoint by jumping from A to Z in a flush without a moment's notice as to what falls in between. Again as I stated before, there is a clear difference between the ideal and reality. "any region or city should be governed by a administration, state not based on clan but based on shared value's" And since you cannot stick with one issue at a time, i let you go back to your usual. best of luck.

Again, you are spinning the same flawed logic: the ideal and the reality are two different things. there are marauding militias whose livelihood is in danger, have not eaten for days, and their only way of securing their future is by way robing or looting. And there you go again jumping all over the place. this has very little to do with the airport and its location. It is a given, the city is in need of tight security force, and this is an exception with Al-shabaab doing their thing in the city. "Even in Southern Somalia are these kind of fighting rare where 27 people are killed in one day, and this was only back couple months." Can you stick with one issue at a time. what are you a rabbit out of its haunt seeking a new hideout?

Careful, I did not say you are a proponent of secession, but a proponent of pre-independence Somaliland nonetheless.

You did not answer the questions tho', which shows everything you are say or write is pure heresy. and your source of information is rather glib. security incidents happen, and life goes on. welcome to somalia. Google is not my source of information, and i do not need to rely on rubbish from kid behind a keyboard who just learnt how to spell his name. I know of the city, its surroundings and inhabitants. you do not, and anything you say is rubbish. now will you move along, and find another obsession? can i ask you a question: why must you insist on talking about stuff you do not anything about?

Do you even know where Galkacyo airport is? How far is it from Cirjiife? Which district is Cirjiife in? And how far is it from Wadajir district? If you answer those questions, I night just take you seriously. And while you are at it, is Hargeysa airport any different? what do you think would happen if Reer Saylada Xoolaha go on a strike for a day and block traffic to Hargeysa's airport?

Waar adigu duul duul badnidee horta. Your intentions (you and Bilan) might be honourable and your heart might be in the right place, and you are within your right to be concerned, but both of you are going about it the wrong way. neither of you presents anything in the area of tangibles to make your case against oil exploration and drilling in that part of the country. and that makes all you say bordering nuisance. waa wareey, it is a bad idea, is not good enough. do you have anything concrete to convince otherwise. if not, you are no different from faarax beenaale and his infamous 'adhigii waraabaa cunayeey'.

I would have thought you would appreciate the natural flow of the progress or the value of history, but may be not. you see you cannot jump from A and hope to reach Z in a few days which is what might be eluding you. the idea is to let nature take its course, and allow people to familiarise themselves with and experiment with forms of government, and eventually through trials and tribulations come of age landing on what suits them. do not try to frogmarching them to what works for others who have done the heavy lifting at own pace and time. let us leave the nation state discussion there for now as you seem not quite there yet, and may be revisit, when it is a bit clearer. How about the citizen? and this is important since you are a proponent of Somaliland and think about the latest incursions in Buuhoodle and Las Anod. Proponents of Somliland want a separate country to protect themselves from oppression and a form of government imposed on them from above (Somalia), yet today they are adopting oppressive policies over peoples who do not subscribe to the Somaliland doctrine. what gives? again, it is justifiable to kill the citizen in quest of the nation? and please let us have a serious conversation.

If I am not mistaken, you are giving anecdotal examples of bureaucracy, nepotism, and cronyism all of which are symptoms of state construct, which is not working as intended, but the conversation is not quite there yet, and that is found at all levels of every state in the world. "the tribal struggle for executive positions within it" On the issue of Somaliland, like other regional states, it is still struggling with the clan issue. just look at the political parties. they are aligned along the three main clans, and so far had failed to convince other clans on the periphery to the buy into the Somaliland project.

Good perspective.so why do you think nomad tribes elsewhere in Africa or the Vikings and the Irish, Europe's nomads, were able to settle down, but not the Somalis? A statement of arguable validity, but I am not interested in it now. "from 1960 to 1991 somali republic was in the hands of a clan at the loss of others so the evenual conclusion was always goin to be choas"

Carafaat, I was trying to guide you through the steps societies must go through in order to realise nationhood since that is your desire. First thing first, a tribal society like Somalis must first formulate an identity of their own at the most basic level, whether that comes in the form of an ethno-state (Somaliland, Puntland and others would be good examples) or something which resembles city state, it must be recognised. Limitations of ethno-states would then surface giving way to the formation of cities or regional states transcending the ethnocentric identity, and instead taking trans-ethnic status or identify up until its inherent limitations had been recognided, which in turn gives way to the creation of a nation, the desired object, which addresses some of the challenges faced with the ethno and regional states. Now, the question is, how long does the process take? Consider the Shires (tribal enclaves in the 9th century) of the present day United Kingdom before the Norman conquest - think about an English noble using the French to reign over other tribes in the Shires. Another good example would be the Greek islands before Agamemnon invaded the tribal territories of Greece forming what was later to forge one of the first modern nation state construct. If that was Europe in the 11th century and thereabouts, this is Somalia in the 21st century, which is the difficulty the rest of the world is facing as it tries to frogmarch Somalis into the 21st century. The idea here is to convince you that ethno-states or clan enclaves as you like to call them are the means to the end (nation), but not the end by and of itself. But the trouble is you are in a hurry, and want to get there yesterday, but unfortunately you can not mould nature as if clay in your backyard – nature must take its natural course. And please read a book or two on the concept and history of modern nation state. It will help with the conversation. Must dash, And you pose good questions in the earlier post. I will think about those.

Which comes first? And when does the priority change? Can we ever trump the rights of the citizen to form a nation? Can we acquire a model nation state without first going through the requisite process of recognising its existence in the modern state stature sense, in other words without experimenting with ethno-state first, and then city state, and finally realising a nation state? It is an open field to all, but let us be serious, and see if we could familiarise ourselves with the concept of a nation state, and how modern states (successful ones) have come to be, and why the Somalis had failed in their quest - this far.

Carafaat;804343 wrote: Citizens form the nation. You mean the State or the nation? Thank you for indulging me. now, if there are no citizens in somalia, could there ever be the somalia we are all aspiring to?

I tell you what i will create a new thread for this conversation, if you do not mind. on second thought, let us not.

I am working towards the progression from ethno-states giving way to city states which gave birth to nation states.

thank you. And I will tell you, but first, let me ask you - who is more valuable the nation or the citizen?