It is easy to shout it is unconstitutional from the roof tops, but can you reference which articles of the constitution had been breached? unless of course you are just using that line to advance an argument which has no legs to stand on. Again do you know which articles or sections of the constitution which had been violated? Carafaat;933742 wrote: Jubbaland is unconstitutional. That is the judgement of the recently formed Somali goverment.

So if we are to go by your rationale then war must be waged against Somaliland and Puntland. Is that so, or are these two sacred? Again, if we go by your rationale then we must slaughter, the resultant of war, Somalis in 3/4ths of the republic just so in your mind Somalia is saved? Please explain your thought process. Carafaat;933320 wrote: Kismayo, Gedo, Lower and Middle Jubba are the one of the most divers regions in Somalia. In 2012 Kenyan(Somalia second arch enemy) army entered illegaly and without any legal justification Somalia's territory. Kenya's plan was to create a bufferzone region within the Jubba region of Somalia. The Kenyan goverment is the mastermind and financier of Jubbaland. The Somali goverment defending the rights of all Somalis and the interest of Somalia, has voiced its opinion against the current Kismayo conference to establish Jubbaland. Nontheless Kenya and its Somali agents decided to proceed with the shir and are planning to declare Jubbaland , without the blessing of the Somali people and the Somali goverment. Therefor we should consider Jubbaland as a declaration of war against the Somali people, choosing the side and Interest of Kenya.

I would agree 'qab' iyo 'han' died log ago with the nation. In their place, Somalis have adopted 'baryo' and 'buufis'. I was however referring to the lazy reference in the quote.

Actually I would venture so far as to agree with that depiction of the typical Somali man.

Of the tribes in Jubaland the Somali are by far the most important. In the whole of East Africa there are two branches of the Somali, the Darud and the Ishaak. The former only is represented in Jubaland. The Dirr and Haweyeh tribes, largely represented in Italian territory and slightly in Jubaland, though called Somali are really the aborigines of the Benidir coast, and are in no way co-tribal with the Somali, with whom they seldom intermarry. The Somali report that about 700 years ago an Arab sheik, Ismail Juberti by name, having been outlawed, fled from his country in a dhow. He landed on the Benidir coast near Hobia (or Obbia), but the Haweyeh, who then lived in the neighbourhood, refused him hospitality, so eventually he joined the Dirr tribe. From this tribe he married a wife by whom he had five sons. From one of these, named Darud Juberti, the Darud Somali are descended. The Marehxx Somali claim to be descended from Essa, a son of the above-named Darud Juberti; while the H3rti and Ogad3n Somali claim descent from Kablalla Darud, another of his sons. The Marehxx, Ogad3n, and H3rti Somali are all strongly represented in Jubaland. The Marehxx tribe occupy the north-east part in the neighbourhood of Serenleh and Dolo. From Italian territory they have emigrated into Jubaland during the last twenty years, and are still inclined to be turbulent. They are possessors of large numbers of camels, and of horses also in lesser number, but, unlike the Ogad3n, they do not rear cattle extensively. Probably their numbers do not exceed 5000. The H3rti Somali occupy the coast and extend inland as far as the Deshek Wama. Of the three sub-tribes of the H3rti, the Midjertein are the most numerous in Jubaland, while the Wasengeleh are but few in number and the D3lbahanta still remain to the east of the Juba. The H3rti do business as traders as well as rear cattle. Their numbers are about 3000. The Og3den Somali are split up into ^Ye important sub-tribes, the Mohamed Zubeir, the Aulihan, the Abd Wak, the Abdullah, and the Magharbul. Two other sub-tribes are of less importance, namely, the Her Mohamed and the Habr Suliman. It is remarkable that the so-called Mad Mullah, Mohamed Abdullah Hassan, belongs to the very unimportant tribe of the Habr Suliman. Of the Ogad3n in Jubaland the Mohamed Zubeir are the most influential and numerous. They occupy the Afmadu district as far south as the Deshek Wama, and own immense quantities of cattle. The Aulihan tribe frequent the district to the west and south of Serenleh. They are rich in camels as well as cattle, and the Juba river is their main water-supply. The Abd Wak and the Abdullah tribes occupy the districts of Rauiaadi and Lorian. The latter of these tribes wander as far as the Tana river seeking for water in the dry season. The Abd Wak are the more numerous, and might be able to put 1000 spearmen and riflemen in the field. Between these two above-mentioned tribes and the Mohamed Zubeir tribe there is a constant feud which sometimes leads to a fight. The Magharbul sub-tribe occupies the sub-district to the east of Rama-adi, known as Joreh. Though they are not strong numerically, yet they are rich in cattle. It is, perhaps, necessary to repeat that only Darud Somali are to be found in Jubaland, while the Ishaak Somali have remained east of the Juba, and that the Haweyah, the Dirr, and some other tribes are not really Somali, but are disowned as inferior races by the Somali. The true Somali is an extremely lazy person, for his dignity does not permit him to do manual work ; he generally employs himself in watching his flocks, or he will lie for hours under a shady tree, his praying-mat and water-bottle beside him, while he drones, to a sort of chant, songs about his former fights and about the stock he has looted. The manual work, meanwhile, is left to the women and the dependants. The Somali is a Mussulman of the Shujai sect and is very religious in his own fashion. In appearance the Somali is an Arab, and sometimes a handsome Arab. Treat him with confidence and consideration, he is cheeri'ul, intelligent, willing to learn, and true to his code of honesty. Treat him harshly or unjustly, he becomes sulky, obstinate, mutinous, and dangerous. He is an excellent scout, a wonderful marcher, and very proud if confidence is shown in him. It would be fatal to the peace of the country if the Somali should be treated with that contempt which is often shown to the black races by Europeans. Jubaland is fast filling with the Somali, who are increasing in numbers by leaps and bounds. Their camels, herds, and flocks are also multiplying in number. Except along the bank of the Juba, it can never be an agricultural country, lack of rain forbids it, but there is no reason why the trade of the country should not vastly improve if roads were made, and especially if a light railway were constructed from Kismayu northward through Afmadu to the Abyssinian frontier.

Kismayu, which may be considered as the capital of Jubaland, possesses a well-protected roadstead. It contains about 4000 inhabitants?consisting of Somali, a few Indian traders, and Barjun. ? It exports hides, maize, and cotton; it imports manufactured articles, especially cotton cloth of all descriptions. The trade at present is mostly in the hands of Khojas from Bombay. The goods are principally made in Hindustan or America. Very few British-made articles reach the country. As the seat of the Government, it is the residence of a few English officials. Gobwein (" large plain "), 2 miles from the Juba mouth, is a village of about 2000 inhabitants. Yonti, 12 miles from Gobwein, is also situated on the Juba river. It is a military cantonment. Near this village an English company has commenced the cultivation of cotton. The Juba river district reaches from the junction of the Juba and the Daua rivers to Yonti. The right bank is under British rule; the left is in Italian territory. From the village of Dolo, where the Daua and Juba unite, as far down the river as Serenleh (a British military post), the district is wild and uncultivated. From Serenleh to Mfudu the bank immediate to the river is covered by a dense forest. The timber, how? ever, is not of a valuable kind, though here and there rubber-vine may be found. From Mfudu to Yonti the bank is under cultivation by the Wa- Gosha tribes. The productions are maize and simsim. In this neighbourhood the Government have established an experimental farm. The Juba river district, with its richly fertile soil, should have a great future as a cotton-growing country. The Wa-Gosha are a confederacy of several tribes bound together for mutual protection against the Somali. The most important of the tribes are Wa-Zugoa, Yao, Wa-Swaheli, Wa-Gendu, and Mushunguli. All these tribes consist of fugitive slaves from the Somali, and they have taken refuge from their masters in the thick bush on the river-bank. Here at first they lived among the Boni tribe, to whom they gave presents as a kind of tribute. When the Wa-Gosha became more in number this tribute was refused and a fight ensued, in which the Boni were beaten and their chief killed. The Wa-Gosha then settled down, in spite of constant warfare with the Somali. This district under English supervision has an increasing population of agricultural people. They are Mohammedans. They do not attempt to keep any stock except a few goats; this is owing to the large number of tsetse fly in the bush aroimd the swamps which are formed when the river rises in flood. The district of Afmadu, sometimes called Bhoji, lies to the north-west of Kismayu at a distance of about 100 miles. It is a plain having thickets of bush separating grassy park-like spaces. The only permanent water-supply is at the Somali settlement of Afmadu, where there are 114 wells, many of which are now disused. The wells are in the dry riverbed of the Lak Dera, but by whom they were constructed cannot be determined. Certainly they were not made by the Somali who now use them. The heavy rains flood the country during October and November, leaving numerous small swamps, and thus a greater part of the district, where it is not covered with bush, is able to support vast herds of cattle even during the two dry seasons. This tract of country is the headquarters of the powerful Ogad3n Somali, many of whose chieftains are wealthy in cattle and camels. Ox-skins are the principal trade, and are sent to Kismayu for shipment. The district of Eil Wak and of Wajheir have been lately described by Lieut. Aylmer. They lie on the northern boundary of Jubaland. Eil Wak (Demon Well or Well of Wak) is occupied by the Tufi Borana. Wajheir has numerous wells, and is peopled by a mixture of Borana, Gurreh, and Somali. Caravans of camels from Kismayu pass through these districts on their way to the Abyssinian border. It is from these caravans, returning from Abyssinia, that the Somali obtain modern rifles and ammunition. As in the Afmadu district, so in the Wajheir district, there are iminense herds of cattle. The Lorian district is populated by the Talamuga Ogad3n Somali, and the Borana, yet thinly owing to want of rain and the number of places abounding in tsetse fly. In other respects it is similar to the Afmadu district.

The marriage customs of the Boni are very simple. When a young man wants a wife he goes hunting until he kills an elephant, of which the one tusk is for his Somali superio* and the other he exchanges for cloth. The cloth is given to the girl's father, and if it is sufficient in quantity she becomes his wife. In intelligence the Boni are superior to the Barjun, but not equal to the Gala or the Somali. Their language, which is at present unwritten, somewhat resembles that of the Somali, yet the difference is too great for mutual understanding. It is noteworthy that a small settlement of Boni, living on the banks of the Juba, have begun to cultivate maize. It is difficult to estimate the number of Boni now living in Jubaland, but probably they do not exceed a thousand. This interesting tribe, who may possibly be the aborigines of the country, are rapidly decreasing in numbers, and in a few years will probably be extinct or merged among the Somali, whose missionaries are busily employed in converting them from Paganism to Mohammedanism. At Arnoleh is the only settlement of the Gala tribe in Jubaland, though they are to be found scattered among the Somali throughout the whole country. Monseigneur Taruin Cahaigne, of Harrur in Abyssinia, has suggested, according to Oolonel Swayne, that this tribe had their original local habitation in Tanaland. It would appear more probable, from inquiries made from the Gala themselves, that their tribe came from the north of Italian Somaliland, whence they were driven by the more powerful Somali; and that they first took refuge in Jubaland and after? wards in Tanaland, where a large settlement of them still exists. Northern Somaliland can show many cairns of Gala origin, but in Jubaland I have found not one. It appears that, after being driven across the Juba by the Somali, the Gala took possession of the country to the west of that river. About 1842 the Somali crossed the Juba, attacked the Gala, and were defeated with great loss. These attacks were con? tinued until 1845, when tbe Somali offered peace on condition that they should be allowed to inhabit Jubaland side by side with the Gala. The Gala foolishly consented to this. In 1848 the Somali treacherously broke the agreement, and drove the Gala south ward and westward. Many of them were starved into servitude under the Somali, and are now employed in considerable numbers as herdsmen in the Ogad3n country. The Gala are mostly Pagans, but lately a considerable number of them have become converts to Mohammedanism. Their marriage customs do not include the giving of a dowry, and their conjugal morality is very lax. In intelligence they compare unfavourably with the Somali; nevertheless they are a courageous and usually self-restraining race, yet subject to violent fits of excitement when sufficiently provoked. As traders and hunters they are more skilful than a Somali, but not equal to the Boni. The Kismayu district may be said to extend from the coast northward to the Deshek Wama lake, and on the east it is bounded by the Juba river.

The district of Bama-adi, including the sub-district of Joreh, contains a group of flat-topped low hills on which a fairly plentiful quantity of rain usually falls during the year. This water, draining into the swamps mentioned above, causes the country to possess valuable feeding-grounds for cattle. Port Durnford is the natural harbour for this district, but at present the trade is undeveloped. Much valuable wild-vine rubber could be obtained from this neighbourhood, but the trade is hindered because the Somali, who dominate the country, are too supine to gather the rubber, and will not suffer the coast tribes, who are not Somali, to collect it. Three sub-tribes of the Ogad3n Somali dominate the Bama-adi district, namely, the Abd Wak, the Magharbul, and the Abdullah. They possess large herds of cattle, but they do not breed camels. The Barjun district coEsists of Port Durnford, the sub-district of Arnoleh, and a series of small islands adjacent to the coast. The natives include the Barjun, the Boni, and the Gala tribes. The Barjun are a race quite distinct from the Somali, and they have their own language and customs. Their local name is Wa-Tikuu. They obtain a living by fishing and marine trading. They claim to be descended from Persian settlers; this is corroborated by the existence in their district of ruined stone houses of distinctly Persian architecture, and also by their light complexion and regular features. The Boni tribe formerly lived in the Gurreh country on the borders of Abyssinia, where their sole occupation was that of hunting. Gradually they spread southward until they reached that part of Jubaland then inhabited by the Gala, who are locally termed the Wurday. With this tribe they made an agreement that they should be allowed to live and hunt in the districts of Afmadu and Deshek Wama, under condition that one tusk of every elephant killed should be handed to the Gala. When the Somali and the Gala began fighting the Boni were neutral, but when the former proved victorious the Boni retired into the thick bush, where for two years they lived on game. Subsequently they made with the Ogad3n Somali a similar arrangement to that which they had formerly made with the Gala, and this arrangement is still carried out. They now have settlements in Arnoleh and the hinterland of Port Durn? ford. In physique they are in no respect like negroes. Oppressed and persecuted by the young Somali, they have become extremely timid and shy of strangers. If a traveller approaches one of their villages, the whole population takes refuge in the thorn bush, where it is quite impossible to track them. Their weapons are bows with poisoned arrows. This poison they obtain from a scarce tree called Wabaiyu, which is a species of Euphorbia. Of late years this tribe has begun to collect the wild rubber around Arnoleh and to barter it with the Barjun in exchange for cloth. In hunting they have remarkable skill, and their knowledge of the bush is wonderful. When water fails them in the bush they watch the birds, and when they see the birds sitting on yak trees in any numbers, their expe? rienee tells them that water will probably be found in the hollows of some of the trees. These yak trees have thick stunted trunks in which large cavities are often to be found. The branches of the trees spring from the circle of living wood round the cavities.

The Lorian swamp in the north-west corner of the country is in the rainy season for the most part a morass with a circumference of about 60 to 70 miles, but having moderately deep pools of water surrounded by reeds. In the dry season it is a mud flat with a permanent supply of water in its midst. This swamp is supplied from the slopes of the Aberdare mountains and Mount Kenya with water which enters it by the E. Uaso Nyiro river. There is a clearly defined river-bed, called the Lak Dera, connecting the Lorian swamp with the Wama lake. This river-bed is now dry, but the natives report that water has been known to flow down it as far as Afmadu (black mouth), which is a district about 30 miles from the river Juba. The general direction of the above-mentioned Lak Dera (long stream) is east until it reaches the Afmadu district, where it is joined by the Lak Jera river-bed, and this has a stream of water during the season of heavy rains. After passing Afmadu the united river-bed turns almost due south until it reaches the Deshek Wama (Wama lake), a lake which formerly had permanent water extending 16 miles in length by about 2 miles in breadth. This lake was formerly fed by a stream proceeding from the river Juba at a point about 50 miles from its mouth, and it was drained by another stream entering the Juba 20 miles from its mouth, near the town of Yonti (noisy place). The feeding stream has been lately blocked by an artificial bank, and the lake is now dry except in the rainy season. Towards the south-west of Jubaland exists a plateau of slight elevation. From this in the rainy season a considerable amount of water flows into a series of swamps, drained by two creeks entering the sea by a common mouth at Port Durnford. These swamps are called by the general name of Wama Eidu. The climate in general is healthy even for Europeans, for although the heat is often intense,1'it is a dry heat very different to that of places to the south. The average coastal temperature is 80?, but inland it is greater. The seasons are as follows :? Gu, The heavy rains (March to July). Hagar, Dry season (July to August). Dair, Lesser rains (September to November). Dirar, Dry season (December to February). The two dry seasons are sometimes also called Jilal, and the two rainy seasons Barwargo. The rains fall inland first, and are often accompanied by severe thunclerstorms. On the coast the rainfall is less than in the interior. The two monsoons are equally divided into periods of six months each; the south-west, blowing from April to August; and the north-east from September to March. Between the two monsoonscomes a calm, when the heat is excessive. The country may be ronghly divided into the following districts : Bama-adi, Barjun, Kismayu, Juba river, Afmadu, Serenleh, Eil Wak, Wajheir, Lorian.

It seems the conversation from coast to coast is all about Juba these days, so this document might be helpful for reference. Some might have already seen, but if not, here it is. JUBALAND AND ITS INHABITANTS. By F. ELLIOTT, A.S.P. 1913 Source: The Geographical Journal, Vol. 41, No. 6 (Jun., 1913), pp. 554-561Published by: Wiley on behalf of The Royal Geographical Society (with the Institute of British Geographers)Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1778081 Thr north-western boundary of Jubaland is a line drawn from the Lorian swamp, passing through the districts of Wajheir and Eil Wak, and terminating at Dolo, on the river Juba. Its south-eastern boundary is the Indian ocean. Its eastern boundary is the river Juba, whose eastern bank is within the Italian sphere of influence. The western boundary is an imaginary line from the Lorian swamp to the Barjun settlement of Kiunga on the coast. Off the coast is a series of coral reefs and small islands, partly inhabited, which makes the approach by vessels somewhat difficult. The available harbours are two in number, Kismayu and Port Durnford; the latter can only be entered by vessels of light draught. The mouth of the river Juba is blocked by a sand-bar, which can be crossed by vessels not requiring more than 6 feet of water. There is, in addition, the large creek of Arnoleh (place of milk), which is navigable by dhows, and extends some 20 miles inland. Along the shore there is a line of sandhills stretching inland for about a mile. Their heights average not more than 200 feet, and they are clothed with bush and mimosa thorn. Immediately behind the sandhills lies a flat country, thick with thorn and other bushes, but which possesses here and there open or park-like plains whereon cattle, camels and goats are pastured. As we proceed north-westward the belts of bush become denser and more difficult to penetrate, while in the more southern districts the open plains are larger and more numerous. The general view of the country is uninteresting from lack of hills, and depressing from want of variety ; yet it possesses great possibilities as a grazing country. Along the whole of the western bank of the river Juba lies a belt of what is called " black-cotton " soil, the fertility of which, under irrigation, may be compared to that of the Nile valley. It is already producing crops of cotton equal to the best Egyptian, and in the future might become a district of considerable commercial importance. The Juba, locally called the Webbe Ganana, rises in the mountains of southern Abyssinia. Its course is southward, but it winds in many directions. Its only tributary in Jubaland is the Daua. The local drainage is very small, and there are numerous swamps on either bank. The river is lowest from December to March, it then rises slowly until May. After this month the river again falls, and this fall is followed by its greatest rise, which occurs between August and November. The banks are well defined and clothed with vegetation and bush. The swamps lie beyond these banks. The river is navigable all the year round to Yonti. During the floods steamers can even reach Serenleh. The tsetse fly haunts the banks and swamps.

Debate for Jubaland constitution begins.

XX - You are misquoting provisions of Article (49) of the constitution. Read it again to get a clearer understanding of it. If unclear, ask others with better understanding to explain it to you. Article 49. The Number and Boundaries of the Federal Member States and Districts (1) The number and boundaries of the Federal Member States shall be determined by the House of the People of the Federal Parliament. (2) The House of the People of the Federal Parliament, before determining the number and boundaries of the Federal Member States, shall nominate a national commission which shall study the issue, and submit a report of its findings with recommendations to the House of the People of the Federal Parliament. (3) The nomination of the commission referred to in Clause two shall be preceded by the enactment of a law by the House of the People of the Federal Parliament, which shall define: (a) The responsibilities and powers of the commission; (b) The parameters and conditions it shall use for the establishment of the Federal Member States; © The number of the commissioners, requirements of membership, nomination methods, office tenure, and their remuneration. (4) The number and the boundaries of the districts in a Federal Member State shall be determined by a law enacted by the parliament of the Federal Member State, which must be approved by the House of the People of the Federal Parliament. (5) Federal Member State boundaries shall be based on the boundaries of the administrative regions as they existed before 1991. (6) Based on a voluntary decision, two or more regions may merge to form a Federal Member State. Preconditions not addressed: 1. The House of Federal Members states has not been created. 2. The federal parliament has not enacted laws governing the establishment of federal member states. 3. The commission has not been nominated.

There are many troubling stories there, but others do not suffer from cognitive impairment and existing in perpetual illusion of wanting to make themselves feel better just because it is seemingly worse on the lower storey when in reality your own state of existence is poorly. Keep giggling until it catches on. Let us hope sooner.

The idea was to give you a dose of your own medicine. Bitter, is it?

They do day and night. Besides, who needs Habraha and their politicians polluting the airwaves when their agents and blowhearts are constantly online spinning nonsense. Where else does your nonsense come from? Thought of all by yourself? I think not. You are just an extension of the nutters in the triangle being recycled and the rest of us are at the misfortune of witnessing it. Xaaji Xunjuf;931869 wrote: Have u ever heard Somaliland politicians even mentioning the Jubba conflict i dont think so i haven't. There are sure no Somalilanders from that region marka nin weyn been baad sheegeysa lugu ma yidha eh waxa la yidha kugu ma raacsani

Habruhu are as confused as ever and their political currency does not carry much value as they once thought and that reality is dawning on them day by day. That is why they are obsessed with Somalia avoiding anything to do with the triangle. If it is not rounding up the innocent in Sool and running tanks over the defenseless in Cayn, they are sowing seeds of discontent in the South via their Trojans in Mogadishu. And when that fails to produce results, they concoct falsehoods to camouflage their inadequacies which comes in the form of crying foul day and night. One such falsehood is the constant bombardment of the forum with useless stories of Mogadishu is on flames. Kismayo is on the brink of an all out war. Marka is overrun. Baydhabo is taken over. The perpetual spinning never stops. All for one reason - it is so bad in the triangle they must find a distraction from the painful reality and an escape from the evolving, for the worse, situation. Is it any wonder they are boring the forum senseless.

Galmudug was a political strategy invented to fit within the political landscape at the time and now its time has passed with the transition. Time to move on with the changing political reality and think about aligning itself with other regions. Its leadership was told again, the first was at the Garowe II conference, they do not meet the criteria for a federal state. And now it is up to the people of those districts to decide their destiny.

Of all the ills that fell on the Somalis over the years, the worse has been the loss of 'Han' iyo 'Qab', which were distinguishing traits which set Somalis apart in antiquity as eloquently captured in the age old proverb 'Waad dhimanaysaa, Bakhtiga looma cuno'. Now, it seems all that is gone. Begging, which was a thing 'laga faano' has now become an accepted national practice where the elites are staging contests in who could get the most handouts. Somalis once were masters of their destiny and domain. Not any more. That is the lesson to be taken. People whose whole existence hings on 'whomever can feed me is my master'. Ceeb iyo calool xumo iga dheh. And by the way, there is nothing wrong with the Jews as people. After all they are the children of Abraham.

Very impressive. Governance begins at the bottom and upwards, and not the other way round. A lesson for the anti-federalist, centrist-minded loud mouths. Another lesson for the lords of death and doom, with peace comes dividends - development and stability. Just envisage Garowe, Kismayo, Baydhabo, Hargeysa, Beledweyn, Mogadishu etc., all working in pace and turn instead of the city-centric mindset which bedeviled Somalia.

The Jubaland Express train departed, and I do not think it will be derailed by HAG or its puppet Saacid no matter how hard they pull the strings from behind.

So when did Sh. Hoose become a HAG territory? I thought the era of looting and land-grabbing was over. Xaaji Xunjuf;923187 wrote: hag maxay dawlaod gobaleedyo uga dhisan wayeen gobolada dhexe shabeelade hoose iyo dhexe iyo hiiraan.

Nicely done. and if possible next year how about we hold the biggest event in Laascaanood.

Give credit where it is due. in the last days of his presidency he was begining to playing ball, not like a pro, but play nonethelss.

He is a novice, and will need a few more years to learn the ropes. remember Shariif it tooks him close to 3 years to get the hang of it.

No such thing. both states are pro federalist unionists, and have no beef with President Hassan and his government even though many are disappointed with his lack of ingenuity and clarity.