Carafaat, Do you know why it is frustrating to converse with you? It is 'cos you do not pay attention to DETAIL. re-read the earlier post, and pay attention to the word FIRST this time, please? I agree. The election process is not a process without flaws but one of the most crucial issues is that of the arbiter(the Electoral Committee). Without an independent arbiter, the opposition will always cry fault and they already have done so. See the letter you posted. Even after elections, they will say the process was not democratic, irrelevent if they have won or not.

Do you remember how many Riyaale appointed in the first election in SL?

Baashi, The current crop of Somali politicians and leaders are neither intelligent nor public serving technocrats. They are neither honest nor capable. They are however egotistical prima donnas deeply influenced by Somalia's recent history and of which views and politics are shaped firstly by clan interest instead of the national and public interest. Add-on: And to understand the malaise in Somali politics, such observe this forum and the nonsense that passes as facts and hard data - no critical analysis or fact-checking or patience for the all facts to emerge, but furious rush to judgement and no subscription to the age old doctrine of awarding the "benefit of the doubt" in situations or cases - 'cos people in this forum will eventually graduate and morph into politicians serving the ailing Somalia.

Carafaat, The process has to begin somewhere, and it just so happens this is not a Somali-owned process, but one borrowed from other nations. In the US, the President appoints members (6) of the US Electoral commission whereas in the UK the Parliament appoints members. Did you ever wonder why there is the Electoral College in the US? It is not perfect, but it has to begin somewhere. Of course you can criticise it till cows come home, but the criticism has to be realistic, consider existing conditions, constraints and circumstances, and make sense. If not, it is just conjecture. Again, this is just an example, even tho' we cannot compare mature democracies and centuries-old independent institutions with Somalia's non-existing ones. And I am NOT discounting the democratic nature of the Somali culture.

Are you deliberately contradicting yourself, or arguing with and against yourself? Carafaat;944814 wrote: Faroole appointed those 4 members and they form a majority of the "Electoral Committee". Wax fahan. Carafaat;944814 wrote: Faroole appointed 5 of the 9 members of Puntland "Electoral Committee". The oppositions knows there wont be fair eledtions with such a partial Electoral Committee.

And even tho' the federal government leadership is caught with their hand in the till, Puntland has to engage the federal government, play politics, and ALWAYS think of the national interest. And of course think of its own interest too. And I do understand it is difficult to engage the current crop of Somali politicians with tyrannical tendencies and one-directional perspectives.

And that is the desired end goal. But first we must get all the facts in before passing the judgement, no? Did he know, or did not he? Was he a part to it?

Wait a minute tho'. this get more interesting. The question should be: did the President know about the amendments to the constitution? if he did, and he swore to safeguard the constitution and upload the law, and the constitution has been amended under his watch, does that mean his oath no longer holds true? Does that bring his Presidency under disrepute where some could argue, and rightly so, that he is no longer the President? let us wait and see if he was aware of the changes. Intersting development to say the least.

Shut your gob and grow up. It is people like you who get fat from mayhem and always looking for more meyham. malistar2012;944670 wrote: CRY as much as you want Mogadishu moved on , its booming and the clan you hate are getting richer by the day . Faroole Crying from Growe does not effect The Progress Somalia is achieving . Fed Gov should deal with Puntland as to how somaliland deals with Pirate state isolation , while Somaliland Controls ***** land faroll should stop beating his chess he is a light weight .......

Let us hope President Hassan and his advisors pay attention, see this as a lesson learnt, re-strategise, make amends, and engage Faroole to come along to the London Conference. WW, The idea is not to compound or frustrate, but to correct errors, constitutional in this case, and direct people away from committing more mistakes.Tit for tat hardly gets you any far. If the other side is laying the bait, intentionally or not, why fall for it. You should know better, should not you? Or is that too much to ask?

I could never understand how people form opinions without possessing the facts or the right context. No wonder Somalis are messed up.

Are the issues raised by Puntland valid and justified? Yes. Did the FGS consult Puntland with respect to the London Conference or the formation of federal member states or the amandements to the national constitution? No. Prove is in the pudding. Here are the relevant articles and sub sections in the constitution. According to the constitution, under Article 53 on the matter of International Negotiations: (1) In the spirit of inter-governmental cooperation the Federal Government shall consult the Federal Member States on negotiations relating to foreign aid, trade, treaties, or other major issues related to international agreements. (2) Where negotiations particularly affect Federal Member State interests, the negotiating delegation of the Federal Government shall be supplemented by representatives of the Federal Member States governments. (3) In conducting negotiations, the Federal Government shall regard itself as the guardian of the interests of the Federal Member States, and must act accordingly. Again, under Article 52, sections 1 and 2 plus sub sections a - j: (1) The Federal Government and Federal Member State governments shall ensure that meetings between the Presidents of the Federal Member States and high ranking officials be held regularly to discuss issues that affect their territories, including: (a) Water sources; (b) Agriculture; © Animal husbandry; (d)Pasture and forestry; (e)The prevention of erosion and the protection of the environment; (f) Health; (g)Education; (h)Relations and dialogue amongst traditional leaders, and the protection and development of traditional law; (i) Relations amongst religious scholars; and (j) Youth. (2) Federal Member States may enter cooperative agreements amongst themselves or with the Federal Government, which may not be legally binding or contradict the national constitution and the constitutions of the Federal Member States. Were amendements made to the constitution prior to its being subject to national referendum? Yes. Was it done through the right process? No. Again, according the constitution, under Chapter 15, Article 132, sub sections 1 - 10 provide: Article 132. Provisions Applicable to an Amendment to the Constitution Proposed After the Expiry of the First Term of the Federal Parliament (1) Notwithstanding Clause (2), whether before or after the expiry of the first term of the Federal Parliament, neither House of Parliament may consider an amendment to the Founding Principles mentioned in Chapter 1 of this Constitution. (2) Subject to Clause (1), and other than an amendment of the boundaries of Federal Member States in terms of Article 49, a House of the Federal Parliament may consider an amendment to the Constitution only in terms of the procedures set forth in Clauses (3) through (9). (3) The Federal Government or a Federal Members State government, a member of the Federal Parliament or a petition signed by at least 40,000 citizens may initiate the amendment process. (4) A sponsor of a constitutional amendment in terms of Clause (3) may introduce that proposed amendment into either House of the Federal Parliament. (5) If a majority of the members of the House in which its sponsors introduce a proposed constitutional amendment accept that amendment on first or a subsequent reading, the Speaker of the House of the People and the Speaker of the Upper House of the Federal Parliament of Somalia shall each appoint ten members of that Speaker's House to a joint committee of the two Houses. (6) The joint committee appointed in terms of Clause (5) shall: (a) Review a proposal for the amendment; (b) Inform the public of the proposal; © Ensure that adequate opportunity exists for public debate; (d) Consult with members of the public; (e) Ensure that members of the public have adequate opportunity to present their comments and suggestions to the joint committee; and (f) Engage Federal Member State legislatures and incorporate the Federal Member States’ harmonized submissions into the proposed amendment, whereas the matter concerns Federal Member State interests. (7) Within two (2) months of its appointment, the joint committee shall submit its report to each House of the Federal Parliament. (8) The Federal Parliament adopts a proposed amendment only after approving it on a final vote in the House of the People by at least two-thirds (2/3) of the existing members, and on a final vote in the Upper House of the Federal Parliament by at least two-thirds (2/3) of the existing members. (9) A House of Parliament may only take a final vote three (3) months or more after the report of the joint committee in terms of Clause (7). (10) If the Parliament approves one or more proposed amendments in terms of this Article and Article 136 concerning the review of the final Constitution, it shall conduct a referendum on the revised Constitution as amended. All else is just pure waffle and conjecture.

So with your statistical analysis, 4 is greater than 5 where 4 is a majority? Or was maths not taught at your school? And are you certain these are the 4 the administration appointed? Carafaat;944543 wrote: Faroole appointed those 4 members and they form a majority of the "Electoral Committee". Wax fahan. Puntland = Khatumo, and Khatumo = Puntland. Need I keep saying the same thing over and over and over. Will it ever sink. So is Khatumo part of Puntland? Afterall its the Puntland elections. Warkaga cadee boowe.

Mr. Waaberi, chairman of HORUCAD says his party will be participating in the upcoming local council elections dismissing earlier reports of non-participation. Audio

WW, Could we please show some respect to the President. if not the person, how about the office?

Midnimo and UDAD are making some reasonable demands, and some that are difficult to meet. Having a Supreme Court of which role is to mediate in the event of disputes, and to stamp the election results, is reasonable, and the administration must pay attention to these concerns. It is in the best interest of all. But why personalise, and go after 4 of the PEC members? Joint press release by Midinimo and UDAD.

And now HORCAD withdraws its participation of the local council elections, but did not articulate the reasoning other than criticising the process, and the Election Commission. Why would any one else be in control other than Khatumo? After all it is a Khatumo territory. Carafaat;943997 wrote: Isn't Khatumo in control of Boocame, Xudun and Taleex?

Anyone has the stats of how the elders divvied up the Ergo?

Whatever the political differences at the time between political leaders, Khatumo = Puntland, and Puntland = Khatumo. After all, Puntland is built upon the sweat and blood of Khatumites, therefore Khatumites are stakeholders of Puntland, and are not "Marti". Classified;944186 wrote: I see Jaamac Kadiye, an Abwaan of Reer Lasanod. Puntland's Vice President is also Reer Lasanod/Talex. The question is, don't tribes from Puntland that have their territories part of Puntland 100% deserve to be given the VP or Presidential position, instead of Cabdisamad, who's entire tribe is against Puntland and is supporting Khaatumo?

Impressive. Any time Somali leaders get together to discuss the future of the country, and the meeting takes place on home territory (Somalia), it is always a step to the right direction. Let the Somali leaders do away with meetings held in foreign capitals. period.

Waxaa Maanta Lagu Qabtay magaalada Taariikhiga ah ee Taleex Munaasibad Balaadhan oo lagu Soo Afmeeyay Shrikii Dhowaanahanba halakaasi uga socday Golayaasha maamulka Khaatumo State. Sidoo kale Waxaa Qayb Ka Ahayd Munaasibad uu Xilka Madaxwayne nimo ee Meertada ah kula Wareegayey Madaxwyne Cabdinuur Cilmi Qaaje Biindhe oo Kamida Golaha Madaxtooyada maamulka Khaatumo State. Iyadoo ay madashaasi ku wada dhamaanyeen dhamaan golaha xukumada ee maamulka Khaatumo State, Isla mar ahaantaana ay xil wareejintaasi u dhacdey si heer sare ah,Yadoo labada dhinac ee xilkani meertada ah kula kala wareegayay ay u kala gudoonsadeen si farxad iyo kalsooni ka muuqato. Waxaana madashaasi ereyo aad u qiimo badan kasoo jeediyey Maxamed Yuusuf Jaamac Halac, oo ka mid ahaa golaha madaxtooyada maamulka Khaatumo State,Mudadii lasoo dhaafeyna talada xilka madaxtinimo gacanta ku hayay, Halka uu xilkani meertada ah la Wareegay madaxweyne Cabdinuur Cilmi Qaaje Biindhe Gabagabada Shirkaas Muhiimka ah ee Dhowaanahanba ka Socday magaalada Taleex ayaa waxaa laga Soo Saaray Qodobo Muhiima kuwaas oo waxbadan ka Badali doona Xaalada Deegnada SSC ee Maamulka Khaatumo State. Shacabkwaynaha ku Dhaqan magaalada Taleex ayaa Dhankooda Siwayn Usoo dhoweeyay Is afgaradka iyo Midnimada ka Muuqata dhamaan Golayaasha Khaatumo State. Allssc News Desk/Online hiirad@allssc.com

About time they have started greening and landscaping. Woow....I did not know you had it in you to see good things unless of course it is ilma Marqaan-driven one. Carafaat;943959 wrote: Good initiative.

That video with the locals, particularly minority groups speaking passionately about Jubaland is worth a million. Reer Marqaanka hadalka ka ganacsada iyo inta ay tafta ku wataan ha iska hunqaacaane Jubaland waa tisqaaday.

Timeline for Puntland Constitutional and Democratization Process. Transitioning from Clan-Based Government System to Constitutional System of Multiparty Democracy in Puntland State of Somalia February 25, 1998 - March 12, 1998 - Garowe Consultative Conference attended by communities of Northeastern Somalia, with consultative discussions centered on establishing a shared administration in light of growing insecurity and political disorder in Somalia May 15, 1998 - August 1, 1998 - Garowe Constitutional Convention attended by titled traditional elders and 480 Convention Delegates from five Administrative Regions (Bari, Nugal, Mudug, Sool, and Sanaag) and one District (Buhodle) - Convention establishes Puntland State of Somalia and agrees on Garowe as Capital City of Puntland State of Somalia - Convention approves a Provisional Charter (August 1998 – June 2001), with an independent Judiciary, a 66-member clan-based Parliament – nominated by Puntland traditional elders – that elects a President and Vice President for a three-year interim period August 1, 1998 - June 30, 2001 - The first President of Puntland H.E. Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed and Vice President H.E. Mohamed Abdi Hashi serve a three-year interim period July 1, 2001 - May 17, 2003 - Puntland undergoes a period of constitutional crisis – leading to armed dispute between two political factions - On May 17, 2003, the two political factions sign a peace agreement in Bossaso May 17, 2003 - January 8, 2005 - H.E. Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed continues to serve as President of Puntland, until October 10, 2004, when Yusuf was elected as President of the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) of Somalia - The Puntland Vice President H.E. Mohamed Abdi Hashi assumes power as President of Puntland, until presidential election of January 8, 2005 January 8, 2005 - H.E. Mohamud Muse Hersi (Adde Muse) and H.E. Hassan Dahir Mohamud (Afqurac) elected as President and Vice President of Puntland, respectively December 2006 - Puntland President H.E. Adde Muse issues a five-point presidential decree, highlighting issues of: a) constitutional review process; b) nomination of electoral commission; c) public dissemination; d) referendum; and e) local and parliamentary elections February 2007 - Puntland President H.E. Adde Muse appoints 14-member Constitution Review Committee, to work with local and international partners, including PDRC and Interpeace for technical and financial support - Constitution Review Committee reviews the Draft Constitution and conducts public consultations and public dissemination of Draft Constitution June 2, 2008 - Constitution Review Committee presents Draft Puntland Constitution to Puntland Council of Ministers, which debates, approves and submits the Draft Constitution to the Puntland Parliament November 2008 - Temporary Puntland Electoral Commission is nominated to conform set of criteria for new Members of Parliament selected by traditional elders and civil society January 8, 2009 - H.E. Abdirahman Mohamed Mohamud (Farole) and H.E. Abdisamad Ali Shire elected as President and Vice President of Puntland, respectively February 2009 - President Farole nominates Puntland State Minister of the Presidency for Democratization Process and Federal Affairs - Puntland Government requests Puntland Parliament to return Draft Constitution to Government for further review and public consultations, to conform to Islamic law and international standards June 15, 2009 - Puntland Parliament approves revised draft of the Puntland Constitution, reviewed and approved by the Puntland Council of Ministers Puntland Democratization Milestones January 2, 2011 Puntland Parliament approves Puntland Electoral Commission Law July 17, 2011 Transitional Puntland Electoral Commission (TPEC) established November 29, 2011 Puntland Parliament approves Puntland Referendum Law April 18, 2012 - The Puntland Constituent Assembly convention adopts the Puntland Constitution in Garowe, in the presence of titled traditional elders, Puntland civil society, TFG Ministers, international diplomats and donor community members, United Nations representatives, and local and international media - Puntland Supreme Court certifies and endorses constitutional adoption June 2012 Puntland Parliament approves Puntland Local Elections Law September 2, 2012 Puntland Parliament approves Puntland Political Associations Law September 11, 2012 Transitional Puntland Electoral Commission announces the opening period for the registration of Political Associations in Puntland November 13, 2012 With a proposal from TPEC, Puntland Parliament amends the Political Associations Law to ease up the registration process and the registration fee was reduced by half September 11 - December 31, 2012 Nine political associations declared in Puntland December 31, 2012 - By the closing day for the registration period, the Transitional Puntland Electoral Commission announces that six Political Associations have been provisionally registered and met the requirements set by TPEC for the first phase of the registration - The Political Associations that qualify under the second phase of the registration process will participate in upcoming Local Council elections, scheduled for May 2013 January 1, 2013 - January 8, 2014 (Way Forward) Local Council elections are scheduled on June 30, 2013, and will be followed by: - Declaration of three official Political Parties of Puntland - The three Political Parties will each appoint their members to the permanent Puntland Electoral Commission to guide upcoming parliamentary and presidential elections - Parliamentary elections - Presidential elections (President and Vice President)

Communique: Principal points of the Khatumo State's 10-day conference (paraphrased). - Unity of the Somali people and territories is sacrosanct - Denounces the treaty between the Somali federal government and the secessionist administration in Hargeysa, and warns against infringing upon agreed principles founded upon the federal institutions - Notifying the federal government that the British Somaliland territories were inhabited by 5 clans, and only one is represented by the secessionist administration in Hargeysa, and any treaty with that administration is neither binding or observed by Khatumo State - Calling upon the Somali federal government and its leadership to observe the power-sharing accord, reconciliation, and the core principles of the federal constitution - Calling upon the federal MPs to uphold the constitution, and nullify the Ankara treaty, as it violates the federal constitution - Congratulating the on-going consultation conference in Kismaayo, and welcoming the formation of Jubaland State. You may listen to it here.