^^^ 60% of world arable land is in Africa, I wont be surprised if less than 10% is used for agriculture. Africans shouldn't be staving, they should be feeding the world.

burahadeer;839992 wrote: ^^^ true.It's agriculture that sustains a larger population unless industrialized like the west.Most somali lands made a waste by pastoralism.,trees r cut & consumed by livestock.Could be managed but when?! the only thing look forward to now is oil,minerals etc..hopefully that stabilize our future. We have about 20000 square miles of arable land in Somalia, we probably only farm about 5% of it. We need to start forming cattle stations where feeds and water infrastructure are created in order to give a break to our grazing land and stop the unnecessary desertification. What Somalia needs is permaculture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture

burahadeer;839985 wrote: Somali population ova all is put between 17 to 20 million and could be more. That is still low population considering that total area [ 500,000 square miles] covers the areas of NFD, Somali region of Ethiopia and Somalia.[ the 2 Somalilands]. Our regions are one of the least populated in the World, comparing them to India and China is just a fallacy.

^^ MashaAllah!

^^There is no story here, as someone has previoulsy said with economic improvement comes an eduaction system and this, especially the education of women, will dramatically bring down the number of children women have. Our population have been stagnant for the past 30 years due to high motarlity rate for children under 5 plus our lifespan, which is around 48 yrs. So in a nutshell, many Somalis are dying before they rich the age of 5 and if they do reach that milestone, they will probably wont live to see 50.

^ Spot on.

^^ I agree hence my title of the thread.

Xaaji Xunjuf;839928 wrote: Caruurtanu runta ma rabtan waxa dayacay abayashood they don't have a role model berigi hore Tupac shakur iyo Puff daddy ba aha role modelkooda maantana 50cent iyo mid la baxay the game, Habluhuna Beyoncey iyo Rihana ba waalay iyo kabo dhadheer oo la xidho iyo nightclubyo la tago iyo wixi la mid ah. Wa waxad u arkeysid inay marwalba gidaarada tagaanyihin. Yaryarka waxay u bahanyihin qof gacan qabta oo tusa they are lucky inay wax bartaan jamacada ka baxan shaqooyin fiican ka shaqeyaan ,laakin if Hooyo mar walba aroos tegeyso laga tumayo markay guriga joogtona ay hagbad, ayuuto ururinayso, Dumarku xita wabay dhaman raga xogaha sabab iyagu inta badan waba la jogaan caruurta iyaga ba koriya. Laakin Caruurta abahood inta badan mafrish iyo sheeko maqaaxi iyo fadhi ku dirir bu ku maqanyahay yaryarkuna busstationka bay istaagayan sida Jumaicanka bay radio qaadanayan drugska ka ibinayaan. Mar mar gangs noqonayaan sabab ma oga nolosha wanaagsan waxay noqon karto.They can live in Somaliland and escape the west they can stay there learn the culture language, laakin dhibtu waxa weye markay reer Hargeysa walaan oo ay yidhahaan sidaasa lo socda iyo sidaasa afla lo qaloociya. Lol, That was the best rant from XX with alot of truth, it came right from the heart.

Message from Istanbul II Conference to the Citizens of Somalia The Conference on Somalia which ended in Istanbul, Turkey on June 1st, 2012 has clearly demarcated the pathway to Somalia’s rebirth on the assumption that the Citizens of Somalia are willing and determined to unite and fulfill the first precondition of a comprehensive five (5) points plan for rebuilding the failed state of Somalia. The first precondition point of the plan is the creation of national unity which will facilitate the implementation of the second point which is the establishment of a new political system for re-erecting state, government and public institutions through out Somalia. The other three elements of the plan are acomprehensive economic reconstruction, therebuilding of the Somali national security forces, and thelifting the isolation of Somalia. The gist of the message from Istanbul II Conference to the Citizens of Somalia is the creation of national unity and political visionas soon as possible. Otherwise, the assertion of PM Meles Zenawi of Ethiopia that the problem of Somalia is lack of sense of nationalism and oversupply of sub-sub-clannish attitude will finally be accepted as a national trait of Somalia.[1]Somalis should be able to manage their clan problem in the face of national identity. On its part, Turkey has declared and demonstrated its commitment as a credible international partner. The theme chosen for the Istanbul II Conference was: “Preparing Somalia’s future: Goals for 2015”.It is also a hopeful sign the very late recognition by the International Community that the multi-source insecurity in Somalia is fueled and intensified by the absence of legitimate functional state structures and institutions in the country. Turkey has sponsored the establishment of a new “Rebuilding and restructuring Fund for the Somali Security Sector”in supplement with multi-year donors stabilization and developmental funds for an interconnected state institutional structures. This opportunity is an alternative to the “web of obstruction” perpetuated by external forces with the help of opportunist, selfish Somalis. The Prime Minister of the Transitional Federal Government of Somalia (TFG), Prof. Abdiweli M. Ali wholeheartedly said that “Turkey has changed the landscape in Somalia… They (Turkish) are the sponsor we have been looking for the last 20 years. They are the Holy Grail for Somalia.” These are sincere translation of the sentiments of the majority of the Somali people. The organization, participation and objective of the Istanbul II Conference on Somalia have been rated high. The Conference was organized into three phases. The first phase was allotted to a well-structured Somali Civil Society dialogue participated by over 350 participants from all walks of the Somali Society- intellectuals, traditional and religious leaders, politicians, business community, Diaspora and women representatives. The focus of this inter Somali dialogue, at last free from external influence, was on how to build a sovereign, united, just, peaceful, democratic and prosperous Somalia. Former statesman PM Abdirizak Haji Hussein has enlightened and inspired the debate. The participants debated on the issues of security, economic reconstruction, social development, transitional justice and reconciliation, constitution, and the ending of the TFG transition. After frank and intense deliberations, they agreed on the urgency for the creation of Somali National Security forces under a civilian national defense commission, the lifting the arms embargo as soon as an inclusive and disciplined army is established, the changing of the clan power sharing formula from 4.5 to 5 clans, the establishment of truth and reconciliation commission, and the increase of the number of members of the next parliament from 225 to 275. They also welcomed the end of TFG term on August 20, 2012. On the constitution issue, despite the majority saw “federalism” principle unfeasible presently in Somalia, the participants failed to reach a general consensus on the issue, and recommended for a broad national debate and discussion as follow-up. Concomitantly, they objected the provisional approval of a new constitution in haste, blind-folded, under cloud of suspicion or in contention and before the long term consequences of major constitutional principles are deeply examined, debated and understood well. The dialogue between North and South of Somalia is fundamental for the beginning of a constitution making process in Somalia. The Second phase was allocated to Somali-International community partnership forums on economic issues: (1) Resilience, (2) water, (3) roads and (4) Energy. The communiqué on this phase has re-affirmed the total inadequacy of national infrastructures like the road network, water and energy supply, and the vulnerability of the Somali population to recurring draughts and violence. The Government of Turkey agreed to play a leading role in the development of institutional structures in the field of energy and natural resources as well as in the resilience and poverty alleviation programs. The third and final phase was allocated to the plenary session of the international community, comprising 57 countries and 11 international and regional organizations. As protocol, Somalia was represented by the president of the TFG. The final communique of this phase, called,Istanbul II Declaration on Somalia, summarizes the general consensus of the International actors on whole host of issues. The catch 22 imbedded in the Istanbul II declaration is the reconciliation between the tainted and incredible process for ending the transition period of TFG and the expectation for the emergence of new democratic, functional, accountable, and legitimate political dispensation. The leaders accused of pilfering 130 million dollars in two years are in charge of setting up the new democratic political dispensation. The Ethiopian delegation speaking on behalf of Inter-Governmental Authority on Development (IGAD) vehemently opposed the suggestion of new ideas that fall outside the scope of the “disreputable” agreements-Kampala Accord and the Roadmap- and the mechanism Ethiopia controls through IGAD. Also, the delegation saw premature and unacceptable the discussion on any post transition plan. However, the Istanbul II declaration emphasized that“August 2012 is the beginning of a new phase of peace building in which all Somalis would contribute to peace and have their voices heard,” and “the new political dispensation in Somalia must begin with a new program aimed at re-establishing of the state and local institutions and administrative structures based on and complementary to the current roadmap including the new recovered areas.” President Abdirahman M Farole of Puntland delivered a fiery Speech in which he disapproved the role of Turkey in Somalia and strongly supported the Ethiopian position. He rejected the main recommendations of the Somali Civil Society and down played the prospect for Somali reconciliation, harmony and national unity in the near future.[2] Some of the concerns of Puntland President have been later allayed. The absence of the Secretary of State Hillary Clinton or her Undersecretary for Policy, of the Prime Minister of Ethiopia Meles Zenawi and of the President of Somaliland from the Istanbul Conference could be seen as a drawback. In addition, as of today, no mention in the Website of the State Department of the outcome of Istanbul II Conference except the travel of Johnnie Carson, the Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs to Istanbul, while there is a strong worded support for the baffling Communiqué issued on behalf of the signatories of the Roadmap. The Addis Ababa Communiqué formally abolished the Transitional Federal Parliament without legitimate process. It appears that the policy of President Obama Administration towards Somalia tends to encourage anti-democratic culture, corruption, political marginalization and fragmentation. The expectation is that the meeting of the International Contact Group (ICG) to be held in Rome on 2-3 July will adopt the Istanbul II declaration and inaugurate the beginning of new era for Somalia. Somali citizens have the choice to mobilize, unite and act on the message of Istanbul II Conference before July ICG meeting so that Somalia embarks on the pathway to peace, freedom, prosperity, and national dignity. _______________________________ [1] http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/04/12/meles-zenawi-an-impatient-ally.html [2]http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/Press_Releases_32/Somalia_Puntland_President_Speech_at_Istanbul_Conference_II_on_Somalia.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18300358

Lol, As long as Somalis are not killing each other, I'm happy.

By Richard Lough (Reuters) - The turquoise waters of the Indian Ocean were too much to resist. I jumped out of my clothes, hopped over the crumbling sea wall and waded out into the frothing waves. After all, it is not every day you get to swim off Mogadishu, Somalia's ruined capital more commonly associated with feuding warlords, Islamist militants and kidnappings. For Mogadishu residents who now swarm to the Lido in their thousands on a Friday, a day at the beach brings a sense of newfound liberation after al Qaeda-linked rebels were forced out the city in August last year. It is a reminder of pre-war days when the city's white-washed colonial waterfront and balmy climate led some to call it the 'Athens of Africa'. For Dahir Malin, who was only three when Somalia plunged into civil war in 1991, an afternoon playing volleyball on the fine white sand brought hope the city's turbulent history was in the past. "It's like we live in a real city, not a warzone," said Malin, an IT graduate, now 24 years old. It was a buzz to dive through the surf off a city where Western journalists have for years had to move around with armed guards, clad in body armor and unable to stay safely in any one location for more than a handful of minutes. Never mind the lingering risk of suicide bombers, my bureau chief had other concerns when I spoke to him afterwards. "What about the sharks?" he said. The seas off Mogadishu used to be infested with killers who dined off offal from the city's butcheries, but the predators are now a prized catch for local fishermen and foreign fleets feeding Asia's appetite for fin soup. Behind the sea wall, women brewed sweet tea and sold chilled soft drinks out of makeshift coolboxes. Nearby, garishly colored murals of hamburgers and bottles of soda announced the imminent opening of the 'Safaari Caffe', one of several beach bars springing up. Could Mogadishu really still count itself among the most dangerous cities in the world, I wondered? A single crack of gunfire dealt me a reality check. I looked towards my security advisor, suddenly feeling rather exposed. "Most likely just police at a checkpoint," he said. "From the sound that round made, it barely left the barrel," he said, in reference to the old ammunition still in use. BOUNCING BACK The gun still talks loudest in Mogadishu. Heated arguments with automatic rifles pointed at chests flare up out of nowhere. It is not a place to get complacent. The beachfront villas that line the Lido, where glamorous couples used to ride vespa scooters down palm-fringed boulevards and diplomats feasted on lobster, are now rubble-strewn shells. Warring clan warlords plunged the country into anarchy before Islamist al Shabaab militants entered the fray. Much of Mogadishu's splendor vanished under a two-decade storm of bullets and mortar shells. Overlooking the old port are the blown-out remains of the Aruba hotel, one of Mogadishu's most iconic buildings that is now a base for scores of African peacekeepers. We waved to signal our presence to machine-gunners stationed behind sandbags in the mortar-blasted arched windows. The reality is that without the 16,000-strong force, the insurgents who still control large chunks of central and southern Somalia would likely run riot again in Mogadishu. For now, the coastal city has been given half a chance. The chink-chink of hammers on construction sites mushrooming across the capital has replaced the rat-a-tat-tat of daily gun battles. The capital boasts a new sports bar serving fresh fruit juices and billboards advertise long-distance learning courses. In the shadow of an Italian-built tower that once guarded the old harbor, boat builder Shairf Mohamud told me business was brisk. "Every week we now build two or three new fishing boats," the 50-year-old said, drawing heavily on a cigarette, his face covered in flecks of fiberglass. "Each boat sells for $1,400. I make a $150 profit on each," said Mohamud, who has doubled his workforce to four men to cope with demand since al Shabaab retreated. As if rubbing salt in al Shabaab's wounds, Younis Ali, a young sufi militia fighter now integrated into the government forces, enjoyed a day off from the frontline on the northern outskirts of the city. "We fought for this, we spilled our blood to give people this freedom," said Ali, scanning the crowds frolicking in the water. "What we are fighting for is for everyone else to enjoy the same kind of peace" http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/07/us-somalia-mogadishu-idUSBRE8560G720120607

^^ Lol

Aadan Jugle;839464 wrote: Mario, You see how fake you are , despite quoting the Quran and sheding few croc tears at last you defended your clan, and why should they deserve their own sperate clan province??? and if every clan should have their own clan province why Awdal and Sool folks?? what so happened to be special about them all of a sudden in 1984 during the civil wars? Ah, the irony!! I defended the Awdalites right to have their own province, you're here defending your clan. As for the Quran part, I was just reminding you that I cannot answer for crimes committed by an authoritanian state some 22-30 yrs ago. As for my politics well, I dont believe in clan federalism, but unlike you i have no beef with the concept 18 regions of Somalia. P.s The Sool people, wether they are part of Nugaal province, or Sool or some other arrangement, have a right to live in dignity and peace in the recognised republic called Somalia.

I won't hand him in, but would like my state to bring them to trial and punish them for any crimes commited in Somali soil. I will definately hand foreign fighters to their respective states...including America citizens regardless if their are of Somali origins.

Is any province in Somalia that isn't a clan province? Provinces can be created and abolished, what matters is which people live on what land. Lol, and what have you got against the people of Awdal, that was their land from time immemorial. You're a classic clan zealot, stay on your clan land, lander.

U.S. offers millions in bounty for top Somali militants! (Reuters) - The United States is offering rewards of up to $7 million for information leading to the location of seven key leaders of Somalia's al Shabaab, seeking for the first time to target top echelons of the al Qaeda-linked militant group. U.S. officials said the rewards, to be announced on the State Department's "Rewards for Justice" website on Thursday, opened a new front in the battle against al Shabaab and signaled Washington's determination to press the fight against terrorism across Africa. "This is the first time we've had key leaders of al Shabaab as part of the Rewards for Justice program," said Robert Hartung, an assistant director at the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security, which administers the program. "Every time we add someone to the Rewards for Justice site, that is a signal that the U.S. government is sending that it takes the fight against terrorism very seriously," Hartung said. The U.S. government in 2008 named al Shabaab to its list of foreign terrorist organizations, imposing financial and other restrictions on the group that had seized control of large areas of south and central Somalia and sought to impose its strict version of Islam on the impoverished Horn of Africa nation. The United States has also joined international efforts to bolster Somalia in the face of its multiple crises, pledging $300 million to support an African Union force battling al Shabaab and $250 million for humanitarian relief after drought struck the region last year. "What we're about in Somalia is a comprehensive broad effort with a variety of partners in the region and around the world to bring stability to Somalia," said Karl Wycoff, deputy assistant secretary of state for African affairs. PRICE ON THEIR HEADS Thursday's announcement will for the first time set specific prices on the heads of al Shabaab leaders, topped by a reward of up to $7 million for information on the whereabouts of Ahmed Abdi aw-Mohamed, the group's founder and overall commander. Rewards of up to $5 million are being offered for Ibrahim Haji Jama, another al Shabaab co-founder, and group financier Fuad Mohamed Khalaf, along with military commander Bashir Mohamed Mahamoud and Mukhtar Robow, who often serves as the group's spokesman. The U.S. government will pay rewards of up to $3 million for information on the whereabouts of intelligence chief Zakariya Ismail Ahmed Hersi and Abdullahi Yare, another senior figure, Hartung said. U.S. officials say the Rewards for Justice program has paid out more than $100 million to more than 70 informants since it was established in 1984 and helped to find and convict 1993 World Trade Center bombing mastermind Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, among others. The program has not been without recent controversy. The State Department in April placed a $10 million bounty on Hafiz Saeed, suspected of masterminding the 2008 attack in Mumbai, India, that killed 166 people. Saeed's whereabouts in Pakistan were not usually a mystery, and he responded to the U.S. move by holding a news conference mocking it. Counterterrorism analysts said the new rewards could boost pressure on al Shabaab as it faces a three-pronged offensive by Kenyan troops in the south, Ethiopian troops in central Somalia and an African Union force near the capital, Mogadishu. "Al Shabaab is starting to show some signs of fatigue and fissures that are going to hinder the group," said Rick "Ozzie" Nelson, a senior security analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "Putting these individuals on Rewards for Justice at this juncture is another thing which might encourage the demise of al Shabaab. We are at a tipping point here." Other analysts said that while the Rewards for Justice program had shown only moderate success in capturing senior leaders, it was useful as a signpost of U.S. priorities. "The large rewards haven't had an impact in bringing the top guys to justice, but these notices are important to help define the enemy and informing people about who we believe to be the top-level threats," said Bill Roggio, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and editor of its "Long War Journal" on counterterrorism efforts. Hartung said he was sure the large U.S. reward offers would tease out new clues about the whereabouts of al Shabaab's top leaders. "We are confident that we will receive information pertaining to these seven," Hartung said. "What we do with that information, and the quality of that information, we'll have to wait and see."

^^ Sool was always inhabited by it's own people, way before the republic was formed, all this spin you're putting on this thread is a way to legitimise your clan expansionism in the name of SL. Also as I said ealier, most people I know were born in the late 70's or in the eighties. I certainly won't be burdened by crimes of others, especially ones commited by a state, wether it did in my name or not! As the Christian put it in his bible: The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. [Ezekiel 18:20]

@ Adan Jugle= I'm not here to defend a dictator, and as far as I know, no one I know ever beneffited from the crimes and corruption of that regime. Like most authoritanian regimes, only a few clique got rich from ill gotten gains. Any generalised accusation of a whole group shows that you're not only motivated by hate but you're also stuck in an era that is by gone. I don't know if you're muslim [given the amount of atheists on this forum] but whenever I hear your argument, I remember this ayah. Those are a people who have passed away. Theirs is that which they earned, and yours is that which ye earn. And ye will not be asked of what they used to do. [Quran 2-134]

@ Moon- Not long ago SL minister's wages were being paid by mothers on welfare in London, Cardiff and the wider Europe!

Garnaqsi;839126 wrote: Oh, I loved that part! Such an effing hero! " I am looking you in the eyes G'us, I'm telling you, I'm not driving a car tonite" ----> Cut's to the driving scene! Lol, classic. :cool:

^^ I think I had this debate with Xaaji Xaanjuf on numerous occassions, I can't be bothered this time around to start another circular argument with another secessionist i.e Adan Jugle, especially one who believes in his own skewered reality.

Carafaat;839141 wrote: Mario, dadka waxaas ha u sheegin. hadii kale dhula ayee nala boobiyaan. Lol, Carafaat, you crack me up saxib!

^^ Wimp, if your time is up, it's up. It's time you man up, Faraax!

We cannot frustrate the Turks, so far we have done a good job.