burahadeer;848306 wrote: so go ahead & prove us wrong.Who invented cars,planes,trains,light,internet,atomic weapon,radio,AC,telephone,aspirin and everything in use today.I'm not prepared to carry your endless verbal gymnastics all nite long.Bring some beef and stop busying urslv with some minute thing did by some muslim 1000s yrs ago in which he might even borrowed from some otha civilization. Are you mentally ok, saxib? Do you even know what the thread is all about. You have to remember that in all those R & D laboratories in the West and East they are people of all faiths or no faith, who bring about the good things in life [gadgets]...but I don't understand how your argument has got to do with whether God exists or not?

^ I bet you wont be saying this if these buildings were being erected in your tuulo.

^ So you're upset I called you a troll? You haven't added anything to this thread except juvenile comments.

This is what happens to your country when you decide to fight for your clan supremacy!

burahadeer;848288 wrote: ^^ I think it's this tendency to defend Islam at any cost & with all kind pseudos againest an unknown,obsecure enemy about to destroy...kind I would say inferiority complex perpetuated by things they don't have answers for.All of a sudden they turn into hurling curses to kill the debate. There is no need to for me to defend Islam, it's majestic history is there for all to see. You're quite a sad character. Keep trolling.

The-freeman;848287 wrote: Muslims often claim that they advanced early science; this is true but they often leave out the fact that they were building on the works of the ancient Greeks, Romans,Persian and Byzantine Empire. This is not to devalue the works of early Muslim scientists, they did what any good scientist would do: expand and test theories of others. Muslims should study history beyond the 7th century. Yep, every generation build on the previous one, Muslim were very good at giving their sources that they created a whole science called Isnad. Muslim did expand on previous knowledge and were also pioneers of new ones, they not only studied knowledge but they preserved it. During the renaissance most of ancient knowledge from the Greeks and Romans was translated back from Arabic. In Incoherence of the Philosophers Al-Ghazali refutes both Plato and Aristotelian philosophy, Muslim were not just passive recipient of previous knowledge, they critiqued, refined and came up with new understanding. Muslim socities only started declining once they abandoned intellectual excellency. IA, I hope it going to change soon.

burahadeer;848284 wrote: spaceship was created with muslim formula,huh. In defence of Islam:D Stop trolling.

^ Islam is both secular and sacred and Sharia was developed independent of the state. The governments job is to keep security and not micro-manage the religious affairs of people nor is it it's job to impede the expression and practice of believers unless they are endangering the common good.

Tallaabo;847612 wrote: I too joined this forum after spending few months reading the cut and paste news articles which are regularly posted by SOL’s amateur reporters. I did not join soon because I felt like I did not fit in any of the ranks of the dhaqan celis boys, Al Shabaab loyalists, cyber states guul wadayaal, clan warlord fans, neo-afwaynists, marfash politicians, politicised housewives, fake nationalists, cathinone & cathine addicts, Ethiopian insurgents, iyo gaalada mad madaw. But I guess I will eventually find my ground. From reading of your post, you seem to fall in the secessionist camp, the clue was in 'neo-afwaynist' and the 'fake nationalist' part of your comment, a favorite with secessionist when they want to defame you. If my judgement is wrong then I can only send my advanced apology! P.s Nudawn, wlc saxib!

Of course it can be. Abolitionism was forced on "Muslim States" why can't religious equality especially in the 21st century when everyone including even dictatorships want to appear as endorsing equality and fairness? At one point most Muslims believed, and correctly so if one closely examines Islamic doctrines on the issue, that to enslave fellow human was a religious right. But most Muslims today believe otherwise. Why? Did Islamic scriptures change in the intervening period? Of course not. The only thing that changed is the abolition movement which originated in the West slowly convinced Muslim States, albeit begrudgingly, to accept its merits. Only soldiers [enemy combatant] could be enslaved in Islam, but the Amir had the right to free them if he wished so long as there is no strategic danger, or the captive could buy their freedom or be exiled or be killed if it were in the interest of the security [continuous war hence it is impossible to keep prisoners]. Any position taken by Muslim ruler vis a vis international treaty becomes part of the sharia i.e Geneva convention. So if a Muslim ruler signed for exchange and better treatment of prisoners of war [anyway Islam forbids torture] then it becomes religious obligation on his part. This idea people are changing the deen is just a fallacy. Pragmatism is Islam's greatest strength!!

BF, viruses and bacteria behave the same, whether they are in a Muslim lab and a non-Muslim lab. Any genetic adaptability or mutation is a fact in a living things, a trained Muslim micro-biologist wont dispute that, what they would reject your Darwinian spin for origin of species. I'm confused about the second part of your post, do you mean that god has created the cures in a "natural" form (i.e herbs, honey etc.) or that god has created all of the particles in the universe and it's our job to discover the different combination of molecules that ultimately lead to cures? Pretty much both, natural herbs or extraction from plants for medicinal properties through chemistry.

Somalia, start showing respect to your brethren, remember we all belong to the Somali tribe.

Blackflash;848254 wrote: I'm dead serious, could you imagine the ramifications of someone lacking a basic understanding of evolutionary biology working on vaccines and handling dangerous pathogens? Why would someone with lack of knowledge, Muslim or non Muslim, handle dangerous pathogens? Biology is a branch of science that Muslim were pioneers, we might disagree with your Darwinian spin but lets assured that medicine is a highly thought of subjects in Islam and it falls under Ciliim Kifaya. According to Muslim traditions, God has created cure for every disease and it's our job to find it.

Blackflash;848254 wrote: I'm dead serious, could you imagine the ramifications of someone lacking a basic understanding of evolutionary biology working on vaccines and handling dangerous pathogens? This is a joke, isn't it?

^Wow, what an ignorant statement. you cannot be serious!!!

^ This is not good news, at the moment we don't have civic society that can fight for the downtrodden proletarian struggling for land, housing, water and social justice. If we don't take care of those at the bottom [which happens to be the majority of people in most Africa counries] then the event of Somalia 1991 will keep occurring all over Africa, again and again.

Yunis;848235 wrote: @Mario, You expect allot from atheist - Their rational... The-freeman goes on about rational thinking, the idea man is rational is a dubious one. The Muslim were right, they called man the speaking animal... It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this - Bertrand Russell

Africa will not get rich by giving it's land away, these plantations don't even employ local people nor do they pay local taxes [ there should be 10% Zakat in Muslims countries]. Japan,China, S Korea....all entered industrialization through their agrigarian? effort. With Africa having 60% of world's arable land, this feat can be achieved.

faarah22;848224 wrote: LMAO @ " Somali judges learn to prosecute pirates". Soon or later you would have to start trusting your kinship.

The-freeman;848231 wrote: Nothing can disapprove god/s do not exist. This is also the case for leprechauns, fairies, unicorns..... the list is endless. A rational mind would say I withold believe until clear evidence suffices. Cliched reply as expected, it's also kinda retracts from your original claim. In the future, let science speak for itself, by not contaminating it with your personal prejudice. Thanks!!

The-freeman;848228 wrote: The difference,as this experiment demonstrates, is one is verifiable while the other isn't. Oranges and apples, to use a cliche. And how does the discovery of another sub atomic particle prove there is no God?

The first group to undergo two judicial training sessions will be chosen from Somalia and the semiautonomous regions of Somaliland and Puntland.

D/P

Angola's Chinese-built ghost town The ghost towns of China, Ireland and Spain - full of large empty house estates - may be a phenomenon that is on its way to Africa. Built for people who never move in, they leave those who did with a worthless property they cannot sell. Perched in an isolated spot some 30km (18 miles) outside Angola's capital, Luanda, Nova Cidade de Kilamba is a brand-new mixed residential development of 750 eight-storey apartment buildings, a dozen schools and more than 100 retail units. Designed to house up to half a million people when complete, Kilamba has been built by the state-owned China International Trust and Investment Corporation (CITIC) in under three years at a reported cost of $3.5bn (£2.2bn). Spanning 5,000 hectares (12,355 acres), the development is the largest of several new "satellite cities" being constructed by Chinese firms around Angola, and it is believed to be one of the largest new-build projects on the continent. Continue reading the main story “ Start Quote It's very quiet, much calmer than the other city, there's no criminality” Sebastiao Antonio Kilamba student The jewel in Angola's post-war reconstruction crown, Kilamba is the star of glossy government promotional videos which show smiling families enjoying a new style of living away from the dust and confusion of central Luanda where millions live in sprawling slums. But the people in these films are only actors, and despite all the hype, nearly a year since the first batch of 2,800 apartments went on sale, only 220 have been sold. Eerily quiet When you visit Kilamba, you cannot help but wonder if even a third of those buyers have moved in yet. The place is eerily quiet, voices bouncing off all the fresh concrete and wide-open tarred roads. There are hardly any cars and even fewer people, just dozens of repetitive rows of multi-coloured apartment buildings, their shutters sealed and their balconies empty. Only a handful of the commercial units are occupied, mostly by utility companies, but there are no actual shops on site, and so - with the exception of a new hypermarket located at one entrance - there is nowhere to buy food. After driving around for nearly 15 minutes and seeing no-one apart from Chinese labourers, many of whom appear to live in containers next to the site, I came across a tiny pocket of life at a school. The people looking after the lawns cannot afford to stay here It opened six months ago, bussing in its pupils in from outlying areas because there are no children living on site to attend. One student, a 17-year-old called Sebastiao Antonio - who spends nearly three hours a day in traffic getting to and from classes from his home 15km away - told me how much he liked the city. "I really like this place - it's got car parking, places for us to have games like football, basketball and handball," he said. "It's very quiet, much calmer than the other city, there's no criminality." But when I asked if he and his family would move there, he just laughed. "No way, we can't afford this. It's impossible. And there is no work for my parents here," he said. His sentiments were echoed by Jack Franciso, 32, who started work at Kilamba as a street sweeper four months ago. "Yes, it's a nice place for sure," he said. But then he sighed: "To live here, you need a lot of money. People like us don't have money like that to be able to live here." No mortgages And therein lies the problem. Apartments at Kilamba are being advertised online costing between $120,000 and $200,000 - well out of reach of the estimated two-thirds of Angolans who live on less than $2 a day. However, Paulo Cascao, general Manager at Delta Imobiliaria, the real estate agency handling the sales, told the BBC that the problem was not the price, but difficulty in accessing bank credit. "The prices are correct for the quality of the apartments and for all the conditions that the city can offer," he said. Continue reading the main story “ Start Quote There is no middle class in Angola, just the very poor and the very rich, and so there is no-one to buy these sorts of houses” Elias Isaac OSISA "The sales are going slowly due to the difficulty in obtaining mortgages." A new legal frame work has recently been introduced to allow local banks to give mortgages, but for the majority of Angolans, even the few with well-paid office jobs, just finding enough cash for a deposit would be a struggle. "The government needs to start giving priority to building low-cost housing because great majority of the population live in shacks with no water, electricity or sanitation," Elias Isaac, country director at the Angolan Office of the Open Society Initiative of Southern Africa (OSISA), told the BBC. "There is no middle class in Angola, just the very poor and the very rich, and so there is no-one to buy these sorts of houses." According to Mr Cascao, the government has recently announced a portion of the apartments at Kilamba will be designated social housing, which people on low incomes can rent long-term at low prices. No-one is quite sure how that scheme will work or who will be eligible, and cynics have dismissed it as a vote-winning stunt ahead of parliamentary elections scheduled to take place on 31 August. There is also the issue of what will happen to all the full-cost apartments if they do not sell. Kilamba was financed by a Chinese credit line - which Angola is repaying with oil - so it has technically been paid for. But if the houses go unsold, then the Angolan government will be left with stock on their hands and a potentially wasted investment. Election pledge Manuel Clemente Junior, Angola's deputy construction minister, staunchly defended the scheme and said it would definitely be a success - although he seemed convinced it was possible to purchase a flat for $80,000, much cheaper than is advertised. "It is with absolute certainty, an excellent project," he told the BBC. Responding to the complaints about Kilamba's isolated location, he said: "There are always people who criticise but thanks to the new highways which are being built, as a location it is only going to be about 15 to 20 minutes from the city centre." The city of Kilamba is a government flagship project that goes some way to helping President Jose Eduardo dos Santos fulfil his famous 2008 election pledge to build one million homes in four years. Allan Cain, head of Angolan non-government organisation Development Workshop that specialises in urban poverty alleviation, has welcomed the investment, but has some reservations. "What we have been advocating for is a programme of upgrading in situ where people are living now, something which is considered to be international best practice," he said. "I don't think many places in the world can afford actually to displace and re-house whole populations of cities. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18646243

Somali judges learn to prosecute pirates DUBAI //A group of 31 Somali judges and prosecutors will travel to the UAE in October for training in holding piracy trials. he workshops are part of a UAE-French initiative to equip the Somali judicial system to try its own piracy cases, rather than relying on other nations to prosecute them. "We are working with the UAE to train judges, prosecutors and clerks to set up a strong framework for trying cases related to pirates," said Jocelyne Caballero, special anti-piracy representative from the French ministry of foreign and European affairs. "We want to support Somalia to prosecute pirates on their own. Being judged by their own authority will have much more effect than prosecutions abroad." The first group to undergo two judicial training sessions will be chosen from Somalia and the semiautonomous regions of Somaliland and Puntland. "The curriculum and the programme will be taught in the UAE," said Ms Caballero. An official from the UAE's international security department confirmed the plans and said it would also look at training some Somali legal authorities to instruct others at home. "The training will also be for law teachers," the source said. "We are still working on details." Somali piracy cost governments and the shipping industry more than Dh25 billion last year, the advocacy group One Earth Future Foundation says. More than 200 sailors are being held hostage by Somali pirates, and 62 have lost their lives to pirates since 2007. The secretary general of the United Nations issued a report in January suggesting Somaliland and Puntland could be suitable locations to prosecute pirates. At the time, concerns were raised about whether the structure was in place for fair trials. Neighbouring countries including Kenya, Tanzania and the Seychelles have successfully prosecuted pirates, handing down sentences of between 10 years and life in prison. Kenya has the highest number of pirates in prison, the foundation says. Of the more than 750 in jail worldwide, 140 are in Kenya. "Trying the pirates in Somalia is critical," said Theodore Karasik, the director of research and development at the international security consultancy Inegma. "The steps being taken in Kenya and Tanzania are important first steps, but the system has to be created in Somalia." The Kenyan ambassador to the UAE Mohamed Gello said prosecuting pirates in neighbouring countries such as his was also a strain on resources. "Any move that will help the Somali judicial system effectively deal with pirates is welcome," Mr Gello said. "This sends the right signals that law and order is slowly being restored, along with the administration of justice. "It is crucial to build confidence in the judicial system and for the pirates to be dealt with in their own country." In the UAE, the Federal Criminal Court sentenced 10 Somali pirates to life imprisonment in May. They were captured last year by UAE special forces and the US Fifth Fleet after they tried to hijack the UAE bulk oil carrier MV Arrilah-I. The UAE's stance on battling piracy has long been underpinned by a belief that capturing pirates is only a first step, one that must be backed by programmes to strengthen local communities and bring stability to the area. This was highlighted at the international counter-piracy conference in Dubai last week, co-hosted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Experts and diplomats there said the UAE's efforts to bolster Somalia's legal system were in line with the long-held policy that regionally led action plans were the best solution. rtalwar@thenational.ae