I prefer Maramduke Pickthall's translation and feel it's closer to the original Arabic. Anyway, in real life im not the neandrathal you've probably pictured me to be. I just like taking positions and having them challenged, and would even want my sisters and daughters to be closet feminists (a form in line with Islam) so no man can take advantage of them hahaa. But I think u can agree that this virulent brand of feminism that is so widespread in the West has done a number on their societies. Family break-up, teen pregnancy, hyper sexualization and promiscuity, abortion on demand, confused, infantile (think 30 year olds and PS3) and role-less men, ironically unfulfilled feminist career women etc etc.

Safferz;936544 wrote: I asked because I don't believe feminism can be so easily defined, and the more I study histories and theories of feminism (even the word "feminist" is contentious among some theorists, "womanist" is used by some African American women who feel feminism is not inclusive enough for them), the more difficult and complex it becomes. So you certainly can't reduce it to tenets. But I think you're right to say that what they all have in common is political organizing and thinking around questions of women's equality (how "equality" is defined differs), and that most agree that gender is socially constructed. I agree.

Safferz;936539 wrote: Islam is not a monolith either, so it's not that black and white -- in the same way religion can be interpreted to curtail women's rights by some people and in some places, it can be read as liberatory as well. The Quran is explicit when it says 'Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded.' (Surah Al-Nisaa, verse 34). Only one who is ambivalent about their relationship with Islam will try to rationalize or explain away such an explicit text. Yes, how they are in charge and how they have been made to excel woman may be subject to interpretation....but their being placed above woman by Allah cannot, or else one just doesn't believe in the Quran. Miyaanay ahayn dee walaal

Safferz;936530 wrote: What are the tenets of feminism? I haven't undertaken an academic study of feminism. But from the little I know it seeks to create social, political and economic equality between men and women. Also, it views the differences between the two sexes through a social constructionist lens and does not give much credence to the differences rooted in biology.

Safferz;936526 wrote: Right, and unfortunately it's a common problem with white feminists and their treatment of women of colour (including Muslim women) -- the old colonial "white saviour" mentality to "save" non-white women. It obscures the activism already happening within these communities by assuming women are passive, silent and oppressed, and it fails to take social and historical context into account for an analysis of power and patriarchy by assuming gender oppression operates the same way and in the same form(s) as it does in Western societies. I also have to be specific and say *white women* because even "Western feminism" is not a monolith -- when Betty Friedan wrote 50 years ago about "the problem with no name" and the image of the unhappy and economically dependent suburban housewife helped launch second wave feminism, black women started to challenge its implicit whiteness and talk about how it was black women's labour (as maids, nannies, etc) in the household that enabled many white women to be "homemakers." That said, I don't agree with anything else you've said here, Wadani. Feminism is really only an umbrella term for diverse (and often conflicting) movements, organizations and modes of thinking about gender equity, and its history is characterized by critical self-reflection and an awareness of its heterogeneity. No one organization defines what feminism is or what a feminist should be or should look like, and Femen has seen an even bigger backlash from other feminists, including Muslim feminists . I agree with a lot of what u said. But theres no way around the fact that Islam and the other two Abrahamic faiths (in the form true to their scriptures) are against the equality of men and women when it comes to their roles and their rights. Islam only recognizes their inherent equality as human beings and their spritiual equality. Am I wrong?

Safferz;936437 wrote: And I suggest you be careful and stop playing around with takfir. I wouldn't go as far as making takfir on them, but there is no denying that many of the tenents of feminism (in its western form) are un-islamic.

Safferz;936416 wrote: I actually dislike Femen, but not for the reasons you do. I think they're quite racist and I don't agree with their tactics. But patriarchy, violence against women, sexism, etc are all very real issues that need to be dealt with. Yes they are quite racist with their euro-centric standards for freedom and progressiveness. As for their tactics, it's nothing but reactionary shock tactics that ultimately serve a purpose opposite to their objectives. It's akin to al-shabaab's draconian methods meant to usher in an era of Islamic piety paradoxically leading to a sizable growth in Somali secularists. It's basic physics, the harder u swing the pundulum in one direction the further it will swing in the opposite direction.

Tallaabo;936481 wrote: Why is it ceeb to talk about the number and type of men righteous women would get in Jannah? Will there still be difference in the physical abilities between men and women in Jannah? When the Quran describes the great looks of the female natives of Jannah who will be enjoyed by the male inhabitants of the earth, why do you think there is any shame in encouraging our sisters to look forward to sexy hunks with six packs and so on in paradise waiting for them to fulfil their wildest fetishes? Another Question is, will there be childbirth in paradise? Markaan sidaa u hadlayay waxaan sheegayay dadka damiirka leh ee lamaan hadlahayn dadka xishoodka iyo anshaxaba samada lagaga laalay.

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/04/femen-stages-a-topless-jihad/100487/ Safferz, honestly r the women in the link I posted normal? They are in a crazed feral state, a psychological trance of sorts, divorced from reality, brought on by their pathological hate for men, order, accountability and morals. They are the complete antithesis to everything a Muslim woman should be. Too bad many Somali girls have been spooked with the spectre of 'patriarchy' and have been converted to the mindless and hate-filled drones that swell the ranks of todays feminist movement.

Apophis;936381 wrote: Yeah but their uppittiness and optimism offends my Stalinistic morals

I will definitely be with other woman along with my wife if I make it to Jannah. But as for her, anaaba u jooga ee maxay nink kale ku fali. . I've never heard that woman will be other men besides their earthly husbands in Jannah.

SomaliPhilosopher;936387 wrote: Wadani/Tallabo, how about your wives, or wife to be? What about them? Will they be wit other men, is that what your asking?

Apo, u do realize that u share a lot in common with them though don't u? Most of them are athiest commies like urself

The Faminazi are a plague.

Apophis;936351 wrote: Why so serious bro? Maybe you need to go and Rest In Peace lol I was just pointing out the inherent contradictions in their statements vs their beliefs. I'm just on the side of logical consistency Apo, and of all people I thought u'd get it.

Apophis;936346 wrote: RIP Apo, ur R.I.P is consistent with ur belief system, unlike most of the others on the thread.

To everyone here who is saying R.I.P to this lady I would like to remind you that saying R.I.P to a deceased nonbeliever has serious theological implications. This means one believes, contrary to what the Quran says, that a disbeliever can attain salvation in the realm beyond our worldy one. It may have become some sort of perfunctory habit for us to say R.I.P to every person who had some redeeming qualities, irrespective of faith, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend that we can have it both ways. Either we believe in the Quran, and don't believe disbelievers will be saved, or we don't believe in the Quran and we can keep on R.I.P'ing nonbelievers to our hearts content.

Tallaabo, they too will get all of their desires fulfilled. Afterall, it's jannah. But it's not spoken of in the Quran because it's ceeb. Would you feel comfortable reading about righteous women being with men, and how these men will satify them and how these men will look physically? I don't think so. Even women wouldn't be comfortable reading such stuff from the holy book.

Safferz;936181 wrote: Surprised Mary Harper didn't write this, because the coverage and captions are awful. What's ur beef with mary harper?

DoctorKenney, if u haven't noticed she's not a waryaa lol. But i'm pretty much with u on this, though i'm not sure if I agree totally with the Austrian school of economics.

Safferz;936013 wrote: I match my tone with what's already been directed towards me by a particular person. Take a look at xabad's posts in this thread. Fair enough.

Safferz;935992 wrote: If it helps you to think of me as a Socialist, Communist, Anarchist or whatever (not that you seem to know what those positions entail), feel free to do so. But I'm not letting you derail the thread by making it about my personal politics. Safferz, ur undoubtedly an intelligent and well-informed person who brings a lot of value to Sol's intellectual environment. But at times, like in the above post, u come across a tad bit condescending in your choice of words. Such a style will only shift the debate from an honest exchange and critique of ideas and positions, to one where egos reign supreme as each person becomes defensive and tries to reinforce his/her superority at whatever cost, sacrificing objectivity and the pursuit of truth in exchange for a perceived victory.

Thnks for sharing, had no idea it even existed.

Is that some sort of an instrument?

Safferz;935582 wrote: I was rejected when I used my university email address, but not when I used gmail lol lol interesting.