Watch this video. There is a map shown at 0:38 that will show a town near Jilib called Hargeysa.

Lol @ Khatuumo Conference is to hold Merger talks with Somaliland. Seems like our fellow minority friends up in Waqooyi Galbeed, Togdheer and Berbera are frustrated with Reer SSC, Reer Awdal and Reer Makhir's declaration of self-determination for their regions and their clan. Why wouldn't the SNM rebel movement, whom are all from one clan (Those that settle in Hergeisa, Berbera and Burco) simply declare their "statehood" on the bases of their Clan's territories/deegaans?

It is probably impossible to quantify a permanent population as it pertains to Somaliland. Somaliland does not have a permanent population confined solely to its borders. The colonial legacy left members of the five clans residing in Somalia scattered among Ethiopia, Djibouti and Southern Somalia. A majority of the population continues to straddle these areas, resulting in ever-changing and fluid populations not clearly confined to any particular border or borders. The British colonial authorities in preparing to leave Somalia attempted to save face by carving out an area west of Somaliland known as the “Reserve Area.” The area was established so that the local nomads could have a place for their livestock to graze. When the Reserve Area was given to the Ethiopians by the British in 1954, massive demonstrations took place in Hargeisa. Demonstrators carried signs reading, “If our land is taken our lives are taken.” In regard to the criterion for effective government, Somaliland’s government as currently constituted has been neither effective nor inclusive. All the most important portfolio and decision-making powers are within the hands President Siilanyo’s clan. These include the office of president, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Defense and several other important posts. All three existing political parties are from Mr. Siilanyo’s extended clan, effectively guaranteeing that all power remains within the frame work of that clan. Government revenue has been used for bribes and questionable deals. Multitudes of clan headmen run traditional parallel states within Somaliland, and are more effective in settling disputes than any government body. The most dangerous and divisive trend has been replacing greater Somali’s history with the civil war history featuring the Somali National Movement (SNM) within Somaliland’s educational system. The treatment of SNM heroes as martyrs has been included in the regular school curriculum. It is not acceptable to focus so much attention on recognition for statehood while failing to address and solve the myriad internal problems plaguing Somaliland identified in this paper. There is serious clan domination, and exclusive rather than inclusive representation at all levels of Somaliland’s current government framework. The best possible course of action is to reconstruct the Somali state from a center in Hargeisa. This central authority must be inclusive and representative of all citizens of greater Somalia. It should be the authority that settles disputes in accordance with effective, traditional means of problem-solving and conflict resolution. Such an authority could be much more effective and culturally sensitive than UN courts or the African Union. There is no good reason to return to the colonial boundaries that have been so divisive, such a barrier to meaningful development of greater Somalia, and so universally unpopular and ignored by those they were originally intended to benefit. There are effective, longstanding, and widely accepted economic and social systems already in place among the residents of greater Somalia. Rekindling the administration of the much broader and more inclusive Somali ethnic kinship is a just and worthy cause. References: 1. Sanford J. Ungar, Africa: The People and Politics of an Emerging Continent. Simon & Schuster. New York1989. 2. Michela Wrong, “I didn’t Do It for You” How the World Betrayed a Small African Nation. Harper Collin Publishers. New York. 2005. 3. James P. Hubbard, The United States And The End OF British Colonial Rule In Africa, 1941-1968. Mcfarland & Company, Inc., Publishers. North Carolina. 2011. By Jaafar M. Sh. Jama Email: jaafarjama@hotmail.co

STATEHOOD FOR SOMALILAND AND THE GLARING HYPOCRISY “Wixii hore u soo daashaday Dugashanaysaaye” “In Pursuit of the futile” (clans) Cabdillahi Suldan Timacadde On October 18, 2011, the President of the self-declared Republic of Somaliland (Northern Somalia) distributed a two page overview of the Horn of Africa region on the world-wide web. The English version, “The other Horn of Africa” by Ahmed Mohamoud Siilanyo was published by the Somaliland Press. The Somali version of the same article appeared in Jamhuuriya Newspaper on line with the long title, “Madaxweyne Siilanyo oo soo Bandhigay Sababta Beesha Caalamku Indhaha uga Qabsatay Qadiyadda Somaliland,” in which President Siilanyo presents the reasons why the international community shuns the issue of Somaliland statehood. Though the headline does not accurately reflect the contents of the article, President Siilanyo uses the article to point out both grievances and accomplishments of his state. His first grievance is addressed to the international community, and poses the question as to why that community is putting so much effort and money into Southern Somalia rather than into the much more stable Somaliland. He intimated that Somaliland should have a share of that money due to the stabilizing role it could have in the surrounding areas as a partner in the exchange of benefits. The second grievance was directed to the African Union, specifically those elements of its charter that prevent African states from redrawing colonial boundaries. He contends those same components of the charter have already been breached by recent developments in Eritrea, and even more recently in South Sudan (July of 2011). President Siilanyo also addresses the accomplishments of his state, and believes they are just cause to qualify Somaliland for the status of statehood. He points out that there have been three elections conducted by his state since its inception in 1991. He notes that there are three active political parties in Somaliland. He then draws attention to the referendum of 2001 that led to the separation of Somaliland from the rest of Somalia. In the president’s own words, “independence should be recognized only if a clear majority (well over 50% of the voters) have freely chosen it, ideally in an unbiased referendum.” It is obvious than an unbiased referendum must include a guaranty of fair and equal treatment of minorities. Upon further examination, it is clear that the 2001 referendum to which President Siilanyo referred in his article was rigged in many areas; and there was no referendum at all in the regions of Sool and Sanaag. It is also clear from the president’s article that he has strong reservations about the referendum of 2001. He arbitrarily determined the figure of 50% to allow for complete secession. Clans in Somaliland include Isak, **********, ***********, Warsengli Iisa, Figi Shini, Gabooye and Madibaan. These groups, which the president identifies as minorities, actually comprise approximately 60% of the total Somaliland population. None of these groups wholeheartedly supports Somaliland. Over the last twenty years the argument used for the recognition of Somaliland is its similarity to the events in Eritrea. That is not a fair comparison for several good reasons. For one thing Eritreans are a mixed population of Christians and Muslims. Historically, the mostly Tigrayan Christian population supported the unification of Ethiopia, while the Muslim population favored independence. A compromise among the two populations was reached through the United Nations. The compromise resulted in a federation with Ethiopia allowing all the main organs of the state to be run by Ethiopia’s central government, while local government was run by Eritreans. By 1958 Eritrea was completed incorporated into Ethiopia under Emperor Haile Selassie. Thirty-five years of guerrilla warfare culminated in the collapse of the Mengistu regime 1991. The president’s biological—and Tigrayan cousins–determined the fate of the two countries. Ethiopian leaders agreed in a national conference to hold a referendum under the supervision of the United Nations to decide the future of Eritrea. It was through the referendum that Eritrea acquired its independence in 1993. It is important to examine the differences between the situation in Somaliland and the political process that led to Eritrea’s independence. Notably, no Eritrean leader ever came to the central government requesting to be part of Ethiopia. Instead, Haile Selassie and subsequent leaders ruled Eritrea through the Tigrayan Christians. Conversely, Somaliland was the pioneer in seeking independence from the British-the region championed the cause of, and led in efforts to bring about the unification of greater Somalia. In fact all former Somali civil servants under the British colonial rule refused to take their pensions from the British, preferring to be a part of a united Somalia. There was no coercion from any source that compelled Somaliland to seek independence and join Southern Somalia. Even more striking, Somaliland does not have a mixed population whose heritage and cultural values are different. All citizens of both greater Somalia and Somaliland adhere to the Islamic scripture included on the Somaliland flag, “There is no God but God and His messenger is Mohamed.” Somaliland’s judicial system is rooted Sharia law. Some of the greatest leaders who fought for Somalia against the United Kingdom were northerners, including Sayid Mohamed Abdulle Hassan and the great poet Abdillahi Suldan Timacadde. Abdillahi described the day of independence from colonial rule with the patriotic words, “This morning is the first day to see a Somali hoisting a flag” (“Soomaaloo callan taagta saakaa inoogu horaysa”). When Somaliland celebrates June 26, 1960 in commemoration of its long struggle culminating in its self-declared independence, are the contributions of these great champions of a united Somalia included in the celebration? The history of modern Somalia is shared by all the component parts into which it has now become divided. The second comparison with Eritrea cited by President Siilanyo is that of South Sudan, which acquired its independence in July. 2011. The Somaliland president and his leadership went to South Sudan to celebrate its independence in an effort to gain recognition by the rest of the world. The same colonial power that ruled Somalia over a hundred years also ruled over both North and South Sudan. The north is comprised of primarily Arab speaking Muslims. The South has indigenous African tribes with two different cultures and multitudes of languages. I see no comparison here. The United Nations Charter has established some basic criteria for statehood. These include a clearly defined territory, a permanent population, and an effective government. In regard to the first criterion, “a clearly defined territory,” Somaliland’s territory is based on a colonial boundary that was ill-defined by Great Britain during the colonial era in Africa. When Somalia joined the United Nations, it simply inherited boundaries that were not justly defined. Under the United Nations charter, all borders defining all parts of Somalia are the same administrative lines to this day. That means the borders of Somaliland were based purely on lines drawn through a territory occupied and established by a colonial power. Those colonial boundaries were purposely delineated in a manner that hopefully would provide a buffer zone between existing Ethiopian, British and French power structures. That is why to this day skirmishes among the Habar Yoonis and Ciida Gale and Tol Jecle clans are settled in Hargeisa rather than by the Ethiopians—in spite of existing boundaries in which members of those clans live. For the ********** in Harawa valley, disputes are brought to Borama for settlement, while disputes among the Isa clan residing in Shiinle are brought to Djibouti. There are no definitive borders aside from those established by the British in their efforts to control nomadic families across the territory. The second problem with a defined territory is that each clan has its own recognized territory in which it runs its own affairs. *********** residing in the Sool and Sanaag regions continue to have their respective aspirations for self-determination. This clan is unique in that it is the only known Somali clan never to have relinquished its land on paper to the British. President Siilanyo has tried to subsume these groups into Somaliland several times without success. His government therefore has no legitimacy in those two regions. A governing power’s unilateral decision to take control against the peoples’ will violates the charter of the United Nations regardless of the number of presidential and parliamentary elections held.

Nabad_dadaye;753758 wrote: qofka muslimka ah uma baahno inuu waxbadan isku wareeriyo jawaabta su'aashan , Eebana wuxuu Quraankiisa ku leeyahay '' haduu Eeba doono inuu abuuro wuxuu dhahaa noqo ,wixiina wey noqdaan'' . abuurista nabi ciise (caleyhis-salaam) , ee aabo la'aanta waa mucjiso , abuurista Adamna waa mucjiso , abuurista xaawana waa mucjiso , mucjisana waa wax uu science cadeyn karin , sida nabi ciise uu udaaweyn jiray qof baras qabo isagoon dhaqtar ahayn , sida nabi muuse markuu ku dhuftay bada ushiisa eyna labo kala noqotay , sida nabi muxamed isagoo ummi ah uu oga hadlay waxyaalo dhici doono sanado ka dib , sida yaa la hor furan doonaa roma iyo qusdhandhiiniya (turkiya ) , rasuulkana uu yiri qusdhandhiiniya , waxaana la furtay magaaladaas 800 oo sano kadib nabiga dhimashadiisa . waxaasoo idil laguma cadeyn karo seynis ahaan balse inaad aaminto waxaa kuu fududeynayo waxyaalaha kale een mucjisada ahayn ee saynisku uu cadeeyay . nabi ciise wuxuu yiri aniga wax ma awoodo balse aabahey(almighty God) ayaa wax walbo awoodo . Thank you for your input. I read it and I fully understood it. That is indeed what I uphold to as well. However, when I said that there isn't any substantial evidence to the miraculous birth of Isa son of Maryam, the fatherless and motherless of Adam and the creation of Hawa from Adam's ribs, that comment isn't to downgrade Islam, but to show that FAITH isn't only about having proof, but to BELIEVE the words in the scripture. It is BELIEVE that divides between a "believer" and a "Non-Believer", and not "Proofs".

GaroweGal;753772 wrote: Knight of Wisdom , I recently found out my abti is one of the head guys in the SSC , so do I get a shout out or what? *LOL* I am glad there is a bit of fresh air for a change I am so sick of the so-called SLanders on this forum and their constant isfaanis. GaroweGal, as long as you respect the self-determination of the people of Sool, Sanaag and Cayn States of Somalia, their choice to not be part of Puntland and Somaliland and denounce the illogical, immature comments the Puntland Leader Faroole made against the people of SSC, then...we're cool and you're part of the "shout out".

Somalia;753755 wrote: Yes, they did go to Ethiopia to wage a war against him. Do you acknowledge that the reason for the coup was the crackdown by Siad Barre of former officials from the 1960s? The imprisonment of innocent people if he thought they were a threat to him, regardless if it is true or not. It's not an embarrassment, SSDF were the first to pick up the gun against a dictator. Somalia, I said this before and I'll say it again. Had the Coup Conspirators took the RIGHT path into toppling Siyaad Barre's government, it might've made a lot more sense. Instead, they sold their souls, their pride, their country and identity to Mengistu. Siyaad Barre didn't go to Haile Selassie back in 1969, to take over Somalia in a Coup. He didn't get any help from anyone, let alone Somalia's enemy, which is Ethiopia at the time and still is. It isn't embarrassment? lol So, you're glad that Abdullahi Yusuf was a puppet / friend for Mengistu Haile Mariam? Really?

nemo;753757 wrote: LOOL @ SOL THERE ARE NO SECTIONS LIKE THAT HERE BUT NEVERTHELESS I WOULD HAVE WELCOMED YOU TO SOOL WHO AM I? THAT'S A SECRET ISN'T IT? JUST KNOW THAT I WAS NOT A FAN OF YOU IN SNET TOO MUCH TROLLING (even though sometimes you were correct in your weird analysis ) BUT HERE YOU COOL LOL I don't get it. If there are a lot of Snet members in here, why not just register with the same username like me? What's there to hide? A_Khadar, I don't know whether I've bumped into him on Snet or not. lol

Somalia;753752 wrote: Their mission was to overthrow the government but not to become puppets. Lol, if that's the case, then why did Abdullahi Yusuf took refuge in Mengistu's den, when he ran away from Somalia back in 1978? Why were the SSDF supported by Mengistu? Their camps were within Ethiopian Occupied Somali Galbeed. lol Come on, we both know the Conspirators, SSDF and SNM were all Puppets for Mengistu's Regime. It's a fact that will never die. It's permanently printed on the rocks of History.

nemo;753741 wrote: LOL YES THAT SUITS YOU MY APOLOGIES I JUST REALISED I DID NOT WELCOME YOU TO THE PLACE. WELCOME TO SOL ITS GOOD TO SEE FELLOW SNETTERS EVEN THOUGH IM SURE THERE ARE FEW HIDDING :eek: When you said "Welcome to SOL", I felt as if I was being welcomed to Gobolka SOOL lol. I feel as if this site is named after Gobolka SOOL (SOL). haha Thanks for the hospitality. So, again, who might you be?

So, Religion in general has become a "social taboo"? lol Since when? Both, Adam's creation, Hawa's creation and Isa (Jesus) creation can't be proven. What do you think of that?

nemo;753746 wrote: LOL IM ONLY PLAYING WITH YOU WHO CARES WHAT YOU CLAIM.....I AM FROM MARS MYSELF SO YOUR COOL IN MY BOOKS Lol, nice.

Somalia;753744 wrote: No forgot all of this, my question is, how the hell is that the fault of the conspirators? Are you saying if the conspirators didn't allegedly kill some Somali officials, the war would have been won? That's a remarkable piece of illogic. I never said that. All I said was, the Conspirators were created and helped by Somalia's Enemy, their mission was to overthrow the Somali Government and take it's place, only to become Puppets for Ethiopia or whatever other Foreign Power that was intermingling in Somalia Internal affairs.

Seems like our countrymen up in North-Western Somalia, who have been living in a self-imposed isolation for 21 years are frustrated with Kenya's Military intervention in exterminating Al-Shabaab and it's leaders, such as Godane from Southern Somalia. I wonder why? lol

nemo;753736 wrote: KOW STOP FALLING PEOPLE YOU ARE NOT FROM THE SSC REGIONS Lol, give me a break. Ma adiga dhalashadaydii ooga?

Somalia;753735 wrote: You said "Direct Soviet Military Intervention"? So yeah, they didn't intervene in that way. That's the first I've ever heard of that they threatened to "bombard Mogadishu", they called for a ceasefire or they would withdraw military aid not bomb the whole city. What the hell? Also Siad Barre ignored their call and continued that's when he was repelled. Thousands of Soviet Soldiers and Cuban Soldiers parachuted into Somali Galbeed and Ethiopia, taking part of the war on Ethiopia's side. Secondly, giving Arms to Ethiopia is called "Direct Military Intervention", hahaha I thought you'd know that. Yes, the Soviets threaten to not only stop on the borders of Somalia and Ethiopia, but to march all the way to Mogadishu, had Siyaad Barre dididn't withdraw from Somali Galbeed in matter of days, I suppose, if not hours. (when I say hours, it would constitute to like 24, 48, 72 and so on).

nemo;753733 wrote: No this place used to be cool back in the days. Who is me? After you tell me are you FEMALE OR MALE? I'm a Centaur. lol

Che -Guevara;753724 wrote: "The symbolism behind Hawa being from Adam's Rib is an antithesis to the thinking of our times. For women to have been created 2nd and from a Man's body part - that is blasphemous to the modern Apple generation psycho fanatics." It seems to bother you much as well....loool Lol, I was thinking the same thing. We were not talking about the symbolism of Hawa's creation from Adam's ribs. We're talking about which of the two holds a greater magnitude in Human understanding.

Somalia;753728 wrote: Lol, Somalia would not have been an Ethiopian puppet. There was resistance in Eritrea and the Tigray too, Mengistu would have fallen, Siad Barre didn't topple Mengistu nor did he have the slightest to do with it. Soviet Union wouldn't intervene in Somalia and it never did, so how does your second option make sense, all it did was provide arms for Ethiopia. WHAT ! Did you just say the Soviets didn't intervene? lol The Soviet Union gave President Siyaad Barre a limited time to withdraw from ALL territories within Ethiopia, including the entire Somali Galbeed and if Siyaad Barre wouldn't comply with that, the Soviets would ariel bombard Mogadishu, and every inch of the Somali Republic. What would have you done, had you been in Siyaad Barre's shoes? Stay on course and get bombarded by the Soviets, killing millions, or simply withdraw from Somali Galbeed?

Che -Guevara;753725 wrote: Is it me or does Somalia and Knight sound like the same person, different only in font color. Hahahahaha ! The exposure should've been respited for a few more weeks, perhaps months.

nemo;753717 wrote: shooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooocked KOW IS THIS WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN LATERLY. WE MISSED YOU. Hahaha, yes. This place is cool. I'm loving the Avatars pictures. So, who might you be?

Somalia;753721 wrote: So their PLOTTING was the reason why Somalia lost the war? You got to be kidding me? Their plotting would've devastated the Somali Republic, had they would've succeeded, Somalia would've been Ethiopia's puppet and Mengistu wouldn't have failed from power. Not to mention, major atrocities would've been committed by the Conspirators, under the banner of "Dawladnimo". They were Mengistu's puppets. It's a fact. There were 2 Options on the table for Ethiopia and it's allies at the time. 1. Create and support financially, tactically and strategically the Conspirators and change the Somali Government with a Puppet Government OR 2. Direct Soviet Military Intervention, with 15 other Soviet Allies, along with 50,000 Cuban Soldiers. The first option failed miserably. The second option was the only option left for Mengistu at the time and that is what happened. Do you expect Siyaad Barre to fight with the Soviets and their 15 Nation-Allies? lol

Somalia;753715 wrote: I don't know if they were close or not but he was an elite commander, not sure if he was married to his daughter at the time. I honestly have no clue. However, yes, it was treason to a dictatorship. It was after the war not during, the war ended in March, they did it in April. However, the loss of the war had nothing to do with them, some were speculating that Siad Barre wanted to go further plus he should have taken Dire Dawa from the beginning, not half as you say. Somalia never stood a chance after he continued after he was warned over and over again by the Soviets. Dude, what are you talking about? lol The Conspirators, were working with Ethiopia, they were caught, then the second option for Ethiopia was to invite Soviet Union. All went down hill after that, cause a Super Power was involved. The Conspirators of 78' were plotting ever since 1977, and some say even before the war started. They killed Somali Government officials in Somali Galbeed in 1977, while the war was ongoing. They were not for Somalia, rather, they were Pro-Mengistu and fulfilling his interest. Siyaad Barre's government lost the war because the Soviet Union stepped in. How do you expect Somalia to fight against the Soviets a World Power at the time? lol

General Duke;697865 wrote: ^^^The SSC movement and their war against the secessionist have been more than effective if they made you spew all that nonsense. Somaliland will not be recognized by anyone and this clan war is big problem. LMAO !!!

Somalia;753712 wrote: The coup happened AFTER the war. Also, I think I am explaining it wrong. It's not like General Morgan and the conspirators sat in a smoke filled room on how to plot it, of couurse there was intelligence, but Morgan was in on the loop, they couldn't have done a coup without Morgan. There were many factors, I remember asking my dad a long time ago what happened and he said one man ruined it. Now when I ask the elders what happened they said it was because of Morgan but also because of another man who thought he would lead the coup if he went first by taking a ministry but was caught. So there's a lot of factors. Also, I didn't agree with the timing of the coup, in fact I think they went at it the wrong way but people were disillusioned with Siad Barre, moral was low, obviously that's why they thought it'd be the best chance. First, during the 77' War, Morgan wasn't close to Siyaad Barre, as I believe. Was he married to Siyaad's daughter at the time? Any child with an ounce weight of brain would know that the 1978 Conspirators committed treason. The harsh penalties, such as death was the result of how they murdered high-ranking Military Officials from the Somali National Army in JigJiga and else in Somali Galbeed in 1977. Had they didn't spill blood, I think most of them wouldn't even be killed. The men whom you hold so dearly close to your heart had and some still have blood on their hands. They killed fellow Soldiers, they plotted with the help of the enemy (Ethiopia, Mengistu) and for those reasons, any GOVERNMENT in the world would execute the conspirators. I'm surprised your uncle was given 20 years only. He must've not been on the same level as A/Yusuf, Cirro and Co. Also, of course the timing was terrible. The timing came to save Ethiopia. As you know, Somalia was winning, this Conspirators came into the stage to overthrow Siyaad Barre's government and completely submit to Mengistu's Will. When the Conspirators were exterminated, Russia announced that it was stepping in on behalf of Ethiopia.