ElPunto -- You say no new interpretation or meaning has been given. My point was that this happened, and I've explained how neither the expanding universe interpretation of that particular verse nor the ostrich egg interpretation of the other one was there until recently. I've even explained how Ibn Kathir gives these verses altogether different meaning than the one given by those who now champion the idea of scientific miracles. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but you did nothing to counter that; rather, you merely stated its negation. Chimera -- The verse never carried that meaning at the time which those scientists lived. It had the interpretation that the earth was spread (for its inhabitants). Read any commentary of the Koran from that time and it will say that. The ostrich egg interpretation came only very recently, after the scientific world-view became dominant. So I don't see how you can say these scientists based their ideas on this verse. It's not just that, but even today most translations of the Koran give the verse it's original unforced meaning: Yusuf Ali: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); Noble Quran: And after that He spread the earth; M.Pickthal: And after that He spread the earth, Saheeh: And after that He spread the earth. There are dozens of translations in here and almost all of them agree with the above! The Somali one says the same thing: Somali Translation: Dhulkana markaas ka dib fidiyey.

Apophis;858715 wrote: ^^ Stop being so self righteous. Mo Farah worked hard to get where he is. He does not owe his siblings a livelihood. These kinds of relying on a successful family member is not good for our society. A better message would be work hard then get a family not the other way round. I couldn't agree more.

Trivia: Carroll costed nearly twice the whole starting 11 of West Bromwich, who beat Liverpool 3-0. :D

When you get sad, stop being sad and be awesome instead! Learned that from Barney Stinson and Barney Stinson > Life. True story.

Chimera;858209 wrote: That's illogical, its tantamount to dismissing Hero's early steam engine because two thousand years ago the world didn't understand the complexities of steam-power that was perfected by the British. Hero had no idea he was messing with the concept of 'steam' as we know it, instead his understanding was limited as was his device. In the Quranic verse, the revelation is direct to the point but at the same time limited, anymore than that was not necessary, because the followers of Islam - inspired by their religious literature - in their own right would make ground-breaking discoveries, the almost perfect circumference of the earth is a good example. What you and Apophis demand however is an entire green board explanation about the sphere of the earth in that same verse, which is silly, because the literature in the end is a guideline on how to best worship your Lord, not a science class. Yet, a simple description of the shape of the earth in an ancient book will most certainly have ramifications on 'modern science', and this isn't something you can just dismiss as 'nothing'. You say no one has met your challenge, but can you read Arabic? or Latin? Many early medieval Islamic geographical works have not yet been translated but are referenced only in name. The likes of Ibn Rustu (10th century), did refer to the world as being spherical or egg-shaped, when most thought it was flat. Is it a coincidence that he would come to that conclusion? Not at all, the Quran inspired him along with ancient literature, the same way eventually early modern scholars would pick up Islamic literature and the preserved Greco-Roman sources that ushered in the renaissance and enlightenment periods. Nothing morally wrong about a religious group feeling proud about their concrete contribution to human civilization. You have missed the point by miles and miles! Whether the Koran inspired Muslim scientists or not is altogether a different matter as to whether there is truth to these alleged scientific miracles. My point was that all these interpretations came after science, and hence are guilty of hindsight bias, and therefore one is justified in being skeptical about them. I'm not demanding for there to have been a complete and through explanation; it's just that there wasn't any in there at all, until these interpretations were devised after science. You have every right to be proud of whatever contributions Muslims have made to science, but there is nothing to be proud of giving Koranic verses a meaning that wasn't there for more than thousand years. It's just ridiculous and really morally abhorrent.

To be honest, I find it strange that Muslims have no problem with the Koran's meaning being tweaked to match modern science. It seems people like Ibn Kathir are no longer considered as authorities on Koran's meaning and instead Harun Yahya and Zakir Naik brigade has taken over. Aaliyah's link says the Koran states that the earth is shaped like an ostrich egg. I remember this being posted on this website and I've challenged people to find a translation/commentary before the 20th century that says as such, as all the old ones (and even most contemporary ones like Shakir, Pickthall, Yusuf Ali) mention no egg or anything close to it (even the Somali one has the historical translation). Tellingly, no-one has met the challenge yet.

Chimera;858073 wrote: You're employing verbal acrobatics, Apophis. If the Torah or Bible had a specific verse about a distant planet with an intelligent life-form (including descriptions of their phenotype and culture), and let's say in two hundred years time this planet and population was found by humans when space-travel has matured. The Jews and the Christians would have every right to refer to this discovery - mentioned thousands of years before the landing on the moon - as a miracle . But of course we would be skeptical of their claim if they had tweaked their translation after the actual discovery of the planet. Go and read Ibn Kathir or any other old commentary/translation of the Koran. You will find they say no such a thing. Forming a religious position (or providing a translation/interpretation yielding as such) to claim a credit for something after it's been established by some other means is not only wrong scientifically but it's morally pathetic as well. You can't just tweak the Koran's 'meaning' like that just to make it match modern science and then claim it as a miracle of sorts that demonstrates the Koran's validity as divine work! No!

Apophis;857903 wrote: ^^LOL. Don't slag the man, a PHD in "house painting" is no laughing matter!! :D

LOL! Harun Yahya should stop telling people gibberish and stick to what he really studied -- which was, wait, what? That's right, how to paint people's houses! It does my head in when people who wouldn't know what the limit definition of derivative looks like preach people about cosmology! You can get away with any crap though when your audience is largely ignorant of the concerned subject. I remember the one time when he (for brevity, perhaps) took a step forward and sent copies of his nonsense to biologists and got laughed at (mainly because he got almost everything wrong, even mistaking sea snake for an eel lol). He's the biggest joke around!

NGONGE;857603 wrote: ^^ Not much of a putdown really. Have you not heard the famous Chinese saying? “The Cantons eat everything that has two legs, except humans; everything that has four legs, except tables and everything that has two wings, except airplanes”. :D Doesn't beat 'waxaan ku cuninba waa la cunaa,' which I imagine includes airplanes, tables, and, paradoxically, humans.

Does anyone remember Wigan at the end of last season? They beat Newcastle, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea (Liverpool doesn't count ). Well, officially they didn't beat Chelsea, but technically they did, since our goals were really offside. If they can make that form consistent, they might as well win the league. I fear Liverpool might be becoming a team of this sort - that is, a team that can beat anyone when it can be bothered, but usually isn't.

If you think about it a society that eats camels would eat anything and everything.

Che -Guevara;857355 wrote: I think the bigger question is, is it really possible for Garnaqsi to have 10 year old cousin? Ouch! :D :D

Showqi;857252 wrote: MMA, Ninkii aan Taariikhdiisa aqoon ayey dhibaato u taalaa. Inteena kale dugsigii hoose dhexe ayeeynu Taariikhda Soomaaliya ku soo baraney oo cidna iminka buhuu bahaa inagamma dhaadhicineyso:D Ereyga Soo Maal waa ereray muhiim ah oo ay awoowayaasheen ku dhawaaqi jireen mar kasta oo ay marti u timaado, martidaasi ama gaalo ha ahaadeen ama muslim ha noqdeen. Awoowayaasheen waxaa lagu yiqiin markasta oo marti u timaado in ay odhan jireen waar martidda u Soo Maala oo macnaheedu yahay martidda caano ha loo keeno (canahaas oo fresh ah). Awoowayaasheen waxay ahayeen dad deeqsi ah oo aan waligood ogoleyn in ay martidooda gaajo uga seexdaan, waana halkaas meesha aynu ka dhaxalnay magaca Soomaal ama Soomaali. Carabta, Xabashida iyo hindida ayaa marka ay wadankeena yimaadaan la odhan jiray u Soo Maala oo macneheedu yahay Geella, lo'da ama adhiga u Soo Maala ama caano uga soo lisa LOL @ the irony of believing that stuff yet mocking other people's grasp of history!

Miyir;856337 wrote: I know you have done the garlic treatment now lets move next level, the best hair grower!! Cow dung!! not every cow dung bro? you need fresh Cow dung, don't worry farms around your city will assist You. Apply 30 days every morning to your hair and go outside until it dries like Somali Ariish. Report back. It works trust me. This post made me laugh!

Mix half a mug of venegar with a teaspoon of household bleach, apply it evenly on the head and leave it on overnight.

Narniah;855750 wrote: I got a quick hypothetical question for you all. Imagine your friend who was married passes away, would you consider marrying their spouse who's widowed? I'm asking this question both sexes, thanks in advance. I'm more likely to shag her while he's alive than marry her when he's dead, to be honest.

The first sentence is a myth, and even if it's taken as truth you get one big fat fallacy when you combine it with the second. My 10 year old cousin could string these sentences together in better form. I don't get why people waste their time 'writing' when they can't.

We could see this coming. It was so glaringly obvious that they can't run, so there must have been another reason as to why they came. These people disgust me. Hope they don't get accepted (I would be shocked if that happened) & get sent back straight away.

Walaalkis, you probably also believe that the Earth is flat.

*Ibtisam;853207 wrote: Im sad to be missing the Olympics in my home town and home area!!!! boooooooooohooooooooooo You grew up in East London? I pity you!

Come on! If can't be moved by a question that sad then your humanity is in question. You blame him (in the thread title) as if he was the provider of rizq or something.

I remember celebrating dabshid as a kid this one time in the countryside. I can't possibly convey how exciting it was!

Showqi;852460 wrote: Meet Scott the Human Calculator. This one can actually be learnt. Arthur Benjamin has written a book on it. I wanted to learn it once but then I decided it wasn't worth the hassle (read that as 'I was basically too lazy'). He was on TEDTalks a while ago showing off his skills. Here is video of the talk: