Mintid, what I find more strange is that nearly every sane Somali(minus few pirates wanting their to abduct somalia through federalism) opposes this travesty called called federalism. From Baardhere, Barawe, Bakool, Burhakaba, Banadir all the way to Bari the cry is always the same we dont want no clan federalism. But yet they cant seem to hear all those voices.

Mintid, Carafaat was born, raised and bred in Somalia. I do not belief we Somalis stand a chance in the world when we are divided. I do not belief Djibouti or NFD are in a much better condition. Only a United Somali people and nation can stand a chance to truly bring salvation to its people. I will not abandon that dream for those few defeated lot that are wandering in foreign lands and want to turn back the time, nor to those that cant see the diffrence between unjust and justice or those so called federalist that equate the state with the clan. Hence why I not only oppose Somalilands recongnition as an independent state but fiercely oppose this travesty called clan federalism.

Mintid, What Xiin, Ilyria and other co-pirates are actually saying when they say why are you discussing Kismayo. Baliis, naga joojiya qarxiska siyasadeena afduubka Somalia. Sidaan ya wax ku afduubi kara.

What is however troubling is how HAG fans, who are supposedly unionists are on the same bandwagon without realising the game being played. I understand they are a bit slow when it comes to politics, but will it be too late by the time they wake up to realise the game? This is your thread, these are your own words, and this is your own statement regarding other people being played by others. You are questioning the opinion of others by saying they are followers and are being played. Is this how all pirates see Somalis and Somalia? Again I suggest you go read or listen to other Somalis and their vieuws on clan federalism as well. I can post more articles, opinions of Somalis as well. Maybe you will learn a thing or two. But I suggest you are not interesting in that are you? P.S. If you are interested in my vieuws regarding federalism, just check one of the many threads I argumented against clan federalism since I have become member of this board.

I cant imagine any Somali Presidents ambition is to leave your country and seek refuge in a foreign country after your mandate, that was the fate of Abdullahi Yusuf(AUN). Unfortuantly his legacy is not something we can change here on this board, it is history and those facts speaks for themselves.

Well if you know Culusoow and his arguments against federalism, then why pretend HAG folks dont have an argument against clan federalism? Or is this the latest pirate abduction strategy, debate Somalilanders on federalism and ignore/silence the arguments of all other Somalis?

Oodweyne;941578 wrote: Baashi, Ethiopia never delivered hargeisa to the then SNM. Or for that matter delivered late Tuur in hargeisa on top of a tank. Nor did they fought for him and his rebel army from the border to all the way to hargeisa and to the other cities such as berberra and burco. In fact there was not a single city in whose it's capture could be said the Ethiopian was involved with their soldiers. Listen folks I do understand that you are trying to cloth the old "stoogeism" of Ina Yey with some sort of "historical equivalence" with others, but I am afraid none exist. Never before Yeey has a Somali brought foreign enemy troops in to Somali territories to fight Somalis. For that he always will be remembered.

Baashi, you cant be serieuz sxb. You are allowed to defend uncle Yeey's borrowing of Ethiopian muscles(airplanes, tanks) to fight his war against a popular movement. But trying to justify his actions by comparing things which hardly can be compared is another. Oodweyne seems to have hit a nerve by his comments on the borrowed muscles.

Puntland Press: PUNTLAND: AN ILLUSION TO DEMOCRACY http://puntlandpress.net/puntland-an-illusion-to-democracy/ We have recently seen visits to Puntland by the British Ambassador to Somalia Mr Matt Baugh and also the EU Ambassador to Somalia Mr Michele Cervone d’Urso. One thing they both have in common is their concern regarding the ‘democratization’ of Puntland. Looking at Mr Faroles pretence of democracy they have cause to be very concerned. Mr Farole created his own political party ensuring it had the majority by stating that all members of his government the police and military belonged to his party, effectively confirming his one party state by also flying his party flag on all government buildings So ignoring any set criteria. But then again when you control the election committee as well, you can do these things. Mr Faroles ‘democratization’ in action. Other political parties could only be formed with Mr Faroles consent although to be fair they had to meet the criteria set by the election committee! Even so it would seem that they even failed that. It seems the $25 million from International Donors was not enough to spread the message. For the benefit of visiting delegations and when abroad Mr Farole talks a good talk with the aim of attracting more international funds, but who actually benefits from the money donated to improve Puntland? Mr Farole speaks about the Federal Government violating the constitution and imperilling the stability of Somalia! Rather hypocritical when you examine his own actions concerning the constitution and laws of Puntland. His disregard for both has gone far in creating the current instability in Puntland. Much is made about elections in May and the progress being made by the election committee, naturally controlled by Mr Farole. Garowe Online likes to report on the success of everything Mr Farole does. But then again when Mr Faroles son Mohamed both owns and controls Garowe Online what would you expect. Any dissent then Mr Farole can use his private security police, known locally as Saracen or in the wider world the PMPF, also commanded by Mr Faroles son Mohamed. I wonder if those who financed the PMPF are pleased the way it is now being used? Many may think there is no opposition to Mr Farole. Well there is the main one being the Council on Puntland Crisis. But Mr Farole does not recognise any opposition! He attempts to ban any demonstration and also arrest any that oppose him. In fact as stated by the Minister of Security Khalif Isse Mudan any who resist will be shot. Not empty words as innocent teenagers were in fact shot and wounded in a previous demonstration against Mr Farole. Again Mr Faroles ‘democratization’ in action. The latest attempt to prevent any opposition is to try and keep anyone with a ‘foreign’ passport and without a visa for Puntland from entering Puntland. As firstly as there is no Puntland Embassy to issue such a visa I see a slight problem. Plus what about the NGO’s and others working to assist Puntland, are they banned as well? Perhaps Mr Farole should also look at who in government has a ‘foreign’ passport, Australian passports being included in this. Very much the actions of a frightened man one who is very much afraid of true democracy. Other areas of concern for International Donors are those of accountability and transparency when it comes to financial dealings. Why is it that Ministers members of the Military and Police Officers have not been paid for over four months? Why is it that money from the government has not been available to pay members of the PMPF when it was known there was over $3 million paid to Puntland supposedly for the benefit of the PMPF? Do the donor organisations have a track of how and where financial aid is spent? Another area of democracy that is ignored. Are the people milking Puntland and banking abroad not only the funds coming from International donors for the development of puntland but also the the revenue they have been raising over the past 4 years aware of the fact that they committing theft of public funds and that they could and would be taken to court? As the saying goes, “Follow the money”, that is what should done in near future to put the people abusing the peaceful people in their place.

The Pirates must be getting desperate when they send their top shot lawyer to debate federalism with Somalilanders of all people. Find below one the many articles written by Somali intellectuals against this curse of clan federalism. Clan federalism tears Somalia apart – By Mohamud M. Uluso Clan politics, rivalry and hatred have ruined the social bond, moral principles and trust among Somalis who share common language, culture, territory, history, and religion. Now, three political manifestations -secession, clan based federalism and unitary decentralized political system- divide them and are obstacle to the recovery of the lost nation of Somalia. The Provisional Constitution (PC) rejects secession, suggests voluntary federalism of regions while it establishes a unitary democratic central government. Respect of human rights, political and civil rights for all citizens, free market economic system, political pluralism, and promotion of peace constitute the basic foundation of the new constitution. The US diplomatic recognition of the government of Somalia gives impetus to the implementation of these goals and offers space and encouragement for internal unity and dialogue. Therefore, the people of Somalia led by their farsighted and legitimate leaders have the responsibility to engage a national dialogue that aims to respond to the sentiments and anxieties underlying the three political manifestations so that strong Somalia can bargain with the International Community. In his 1963 book on Somali nationalism, Saadia Touval wrote, “ Somali nationalism stems from a feeling of national consciousness in the sense of “we” as opposed to “they” which has existed among the Somalis for many centuries. It was nurtured by tribal genealogies and traditions, by the Islamic religious ties, and by conflicts with foreign people.” This kind of exceptional Somali nationalism is now needed more than ever. Bad faith political negotiations fail Somalia. Today’s acrimonious relation among Somalis is in full public display. Late Said Osman Kenedid captured this sad situation when he said in his book “xusuusqor”, a Somali becomes foe of the other when clan diversity is discovered. This approximates the present social breakdown. Clan federalism worsens the situation and tears Somalia apart. It’s an overstatement or wrong to claim that the PC has created a federal government for Somalia. Yes, article 1(1) stipulates the establishment of the Federal Republic of Somalia (FG). The stakeholders of this FG are the 4.5 clans represented by the 275 members of the Federal Parliament (FP) and not by Federal Member States (FMS), Ahlu Sunna Wal Jama, Ras Kamboni or other factions. In accordance with articles 48 and 49 of the PC, the FP must enact a law establishing the parameters and conditions to be used for the establishment of FMS and appoint a commission that will study the issue. The findings of the commission will determine the options. Article 49 (6) sets only one parameter: The voluntary merger of two or more regions based on the 1991 boundaries can form a FMS. In the interim, FG will represent the country and administer the regions and districts. Clan-based federalism is against many articles of the PC. For example it is against article 8 on the people and citizenship; Article 11 concerning equality of all citizens and prohibition of clan based discrimination; Article 21 on the freedom of movement and residence; Article 46 which prescribes that the power of self-governance begins and ends with the people. Article 142 does not recognize in name the existing FMSs and harms national interest. To appreciate the concept of federalism in Somalia, a review of the different views, motivations and perceptions propounded by Dighil and Mirifle and ***** ***** (Puntland) for their resolute support of federalism is helpful. In 1991, some politicians suggested a federal system between the two territories united on July 1, 1960. Hizbia Dighil and Mirifle (HDM) Party of “Dighil and Mirifle clan” proposed in 1947 a clan-based federal system later debated in 1957 and rejected by the parliament. In his paper titled “the emergence and role of political parties in the inter-river region (1989),” Prof Mohamed H. Mukhtar noted that HDM divided the Somali Italian territory into two regions: North of the Shabelle River and South of it. Sheikh Abdullahi Sheikh Mohamed (Bogodi), founder of HDM told the Four Power Commission sent to Somalia in 1947 the following: My people are those who behave themselves better than others. We always prevent other people from making trouble or robbing. .. The Other people who are not Dighil and Mirifle, they may live and stay with us, but we want them behind us recognizing the land as belonging to us and not to them. One of the three things the founder requested the Commission was that “the country in which Dighil and Mirifle live always to be regarded as belonging to them and if the government who live with them wish anything from them they want the government to be discussed with them.” As a result, HDM federalism was for land ownership and intended to take place between Dighil and Mirifle clan and the rest. No significant power was allowed to the central Government. In May 1998, sub clan ***** ***** decided to form a “Puntland State” composed of five regions –Mudug, Nugal, Bari, Sol and Sanag- and to make “clan federalism” the national form of government. On October 9, 2010, Mr. Mohamed Abshir Waldo published a paper on Federalism: Birth of Puntland in which he put forward three reasons why Puntland decided to predetermine a federal system for Somalia. They are: (1) to heal and overcome the fear, hatred and distrust of the bloody civil war; (2) To take a middle solution between an autocratic, centralized system of government -which is an imaginary future government, and the outright secession of Somaliland. Sanag and Sol regions are claimed by Somaliland; 3. To emphasize district level socio economic development. Residents in Puntland became divided into two categories: Puntland citizens and refugees. There was no economic, social political and legal study about the feasibility of a federal system for Somalia or preliminary discussion among Somalis. Mr. Waldo stressed that “ It [the decision] was not borne out of emotion, clan sentimentalism or as resentment resulting from the clan cleansing massacre of thousands of people originating from the current Puntland regions that took place in what is now known as South-Central Somalia (SCS) mainly in Mogadishu.” Puntland State is now in confrontation with FG over the formation of Jubbaland State which will comprise three regions-Lower Jubba, Middle Jubba and Gedo and will be under the rule of *****, ******, and ******* as the majority group out of 38 clans in the area. As consequence, Bay, Bakol and Lower Shabelle regions will be under Dighil and Mirifle rule. Middle Shabelle, Hiran, and Galgudud regions will be under ****** rule. Togdher, North West, and Awdal regions will be under **** rule. In consideration of clan imagination, Mogadishu, the capital and seat of FG will be under sub-clan Abgal-********** rule. To revive HDM federalism, a preparatory conference for a new State of six regions-Bay, Bakol, Gedo, Lower Jubba, Middle Jubba and Lower Shabelle is underway in Baidoa, Bay region. Puntland federalism aims to deal with past and future “clan cleansing” and to control the central power if ever emerges. In Somalia, “clan cleansing” takes place every day as long as clans fight and people leave their homes for new destinations. It happened different parts of the country. Somalia clan federalism resembles the clan division suggested by President Yuweri K. Museveni of Uganda in his letter dated July 15, 2009 for handling the Banyoro political grievance against Bafuruki in Banyuro region. Banyoro are considered an indigenous (natives) clan, while Bafuruki (migrants/settlers) – a derogatory word- are Ugandan citizens whose ancestral land is not Banyuro region even if they they were born in it. The President proposed clan land ownership and ring-fencing the positions of local councils and Member of Parliament for the indigenous (native) Banyoro clan. This has raised firestorm inside and outside Uganda because it was seen as tribalism, unpatriotic and unconstitutional and later President Museveni backtracked. The signs of many problems associated with clan federalism like violent minority dissent within are now visible in Puntland. In fact, clan federalism rather than solving the problems of bad governance expands them. Only Ethiopia, Nigeria, and South Africa practice clan based federalism in the African continent. A comparative study carried out in 2012 shows that African federalism fails for at least nine causes like a lack of commitment to democratic values and obstruction of the central government authority. In the gloomy prospect for Somalia’s future, the observations of Saadia Touval about Somali nationalism provide pride and hope. He testified that Somali leaders were always striving to eradicate “political tribalism” because it was and still is detrimental to national harmony. In 1958, political parties with clan names were banned. He also stated that Somali leaders (northerners) gave up their privileged positions for the sake of realizing the broader nationalist goals of unifying the British and Italian territories in 1960. These kinds of patriotism are deeply rooted in the Somali culture and could re-emergence at the right moment like today. Mr. Mohamud M. Uluso mohamuduluso@gmail.com

Osman doesnt seem to know what he want or what unity means. One moment he is complaining Somaliland is not talking to or united with Somalia, the other moment he is crying fault because they are talking. Midnimadan uu kaligii rabo, wa mid nocee ah?

Suxabal kheyr, kefal xalak.

Someone Like You I heard that you're settled down That you found a girl and you're married now I heard that your dreams came true Guess she gave you things I didn't give to you Old friend, why are you so shy? Ain't like you to hold back or hide from the light I hate to turn up out of the blue, uninvited But I couldn't stay away, I couldn't fight it I had hoped you'd see my face and that you'd be reminded That for me, it isn't over Never mind, I'll find someone like you I wish nothing but the best for you, too Don't forget me, I begged, I remember you said Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead You know how the time flies Only yesterday was the time of our lives We were born and raised in a summer haze Bound by the surprise of our glory days I hate to turn up out of the blue, uninvited But I couldn't stay away, I couldn't fight it I had hoped you'd see my face and that you'd be reminded That for me, it isn't over yet Never mind, I'll find someone like you I wish nothing but the best for you, too Don't forget me, I begged, I remember you said Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead, yeah Nothing compares, no worries or cares Regrets and mistakes, they're memories made Who would have known how bittersweet this would taste? Never mind, I'll find someone like you I wish nothing but the best for you Don't forget me, I begged, I remember you said Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead Never mind, I'll find someone like you I wish nothing but the best for you, too Don't forget me, I begged, I remember you said Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead

Alpha Blondy;940926 wrote: LOOOOOOOOOOL you want to get me BANNED, ma istidhi? :mad: Inaar, I assume he wasnt a monkey. Then it was a hungry lion who ate your coockies.

Nin-Yaaban;941019 wrote: LoL Tribal Class. Maybe the English had a better sense of humor in those day's than anyone could've guessed. Imagine if Somalia would name her ships after clans. The Majurtunia,the Sheick Yzaak, the Barawanie, etc. They might risk torpedoing eachother.

http://uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=1 Tribal class worships.

Saffer, SP and Wadani are merely junior Nomads. I suggest they leave this x-rated thread immediatly. And leave the content to the Seniors to analyse.

Ace, I certainly do not enjoy this! There is no SOL'ers who cares more about Galkacyo its peace, prosperity and unity then me. But as I have closely watched and analysed events in the region, i have discovered that there is a season when the Airport Clashes start. Mostly it is resolved by an annual payment of fees towards certain sections of the city before the start of the summer holiday. I only stated the recurring nature of this event.

Somalia, I never shoot on the messengers they merely bring news. Dont confuse me with the quite obvious selective and subjective folks like Xiinfaniin and Xaaji Xunjuf. I shall await your analysis on the matter.

Oodweyne;940811 wrote: Back in early 1970s Idi Amin confiscated the properties and the firm assets of the Ugandan's Asians; and to boot he even kick them out of the country to UK since most of them had a overseas British passport. And luckily for them the Tory government of the day in London under the them Prime Minister Ted Heath decided to open the door for them and they arrived by the plane load in places like Birmingham and various towns in UK's Midlands region. However when the current Museveni came to power in Uganda in 1986 he decided to court and appeal to the then Ugandan's Asians living in here in UK by coming to UK and telling them that their properties will be returned to them. And to that effect he established a judiciary committee independent of the the rest of the judiciary system, so they will look into exclusively into these looted properties. Hence I would advise the current federal government to establish a "blue-ribbon standing alone judicial committee" that acts as a court. And it should be headed by respected group of imminent Somali people, so that their task will be to take this issue out of the daily slow-going legal system of the country. And in the bench of this established committee/court will be open for Somalis who has a lost property to reclaim. So that way, they will go there in order for that committee/court to firstly ascertain the "veracity" of the case; and if the case is solid then they will recommend to the normal executive channel of the nation such as the police and to the local council that said person must be given his/her property back. Thirdly this committee/court will have a wide ranging legal authority that resemble a "court of session" sort of court who expedite and deliberate all the cases that come before its docket without getting entangled in other end of the legal system such as the court of appeal or even the supreme court. This means any decision this "special court" makes is "un-appealable". And the reason I say that, is that it's imperative that it's decision should not be hold up by endless and bogus appeal to the supreme court or even to the lower court of appeal by any "scamming looter" who thinks since he had the property he stole two decades ago, in all of these years, then naturally the new Somalia should "ratify" his right to own that property, when it comes to going forward. All in all, I can't think of no quicker route to resolve this deeply felt issue than this way of establishing this "supra-judicial committee or specific court" which in turn act as a court of final appeal for "looted properties". As well as an active "verdict-giver" in terms of resolving the property disputes in the light of the looted properties of the Somalia during the last two decades. Oodweyne, I dont think the Indians looted a Socialist State in merely two decades. They were mostly entrepreneurs who bought up land and properties throughout the century they were present in Kampala.

Another artcle stating Faroole using Anti-Piracy force for personal gains. Its a Puntland source making these claims. http://puntlandpress.net/farole-set-on-destroying-puntland/

Back to the topic. Faroole asking Italians to replace Turkey as Somalias international partner(audio) http://puntlandi.com/dhagayso-madaxweyne-faroole-talyaanigu-wxay-noogalayan-booska-turkiga-maadama-turkigu-ay-soo-dhfi-waayeen-muqdisho/

Mintid, Oodweyne seems to be more in the know on the inner circles of the O. I thought the whole race was between Gedo and Azania?

According to this article its the PIS who have a firm grip on Bosasso. http://puntlandpress.net/pis-force-for-good-or-one-for-suppression/

Che -Guevara;940577 wrote: Sounds like police state. Che, what sounds like a Police State?