Che -Guevara;761146 wrote: Well, if Somaliland is different country as argued by you, why should a Somali give rat's **** about your achievements specially amidst in our own chaos not to mention our political and economic objectives wouldn't necessarily be the same. And if we consider Somaliland to be part of Somali proper, then how could secessionist possible be in position to question people's patriotism considering the very act of secession is outright treacherous and anti-Somali. Well a true Somali patriot, who believes Somaliland is part of Somalia(as you and many others do), should be proud of Somaliland's achievements as you belief they are also Somalia's achievements. Don't you agree?

Back in 2004 I participated in an international summercamp organized every 4 years by the international union of socialist youythg. The summercamp was organized that year in Thesalonikki, Greece. More then 8000 young people from 120 countries came together for one week of socialistic introdicnation through, workshops, debates, sharing tents, showers, party's,etc. At the first evening an opening ceremony was held in one of the big tents where 8000 people were crowded together. First we sang socialist struggle songs together, then every country delegation had to climb the podium and entertain the crowd for 5min by singing socialist songs from their country, waving red socialist flags and their national flags. It was amazing sight I call tell you, to see all that socialist brotherhood. When the Macedonian delegation climbed the podium, hundreds of the present large Greek delegation even the guards, staff, men, women, even senior Greek politicians(our hostst) started booing, yelling and screeming at the Macedonians for more then 10minutes. Making it impossible for the Macedonians on the stage to speak or even be heard, they drove off humiliated from the stage. We were shocked and amazed, about what just happened, socialist turning on other socialist, no solidarity, no euqality, no fraternity? I went to the Macedonians,who I shared a train with and got to know as an very friendly, modest quite good looking people, to ask them why the Greeks turned on them like that, where this animosity cam from and offer them some sympathy. They explained to me that its because of political conflict between the two countires. Ever since Macedonia became independant back in the 90's,Greece was blocking Macedonian membership in most international fora's demanding the country change its name. The country became member of the UN using Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia as an official name. Greece reason for opposing Macedonia is because Greece has an own Province called Macedonia. And both the Province in Greece and the country called FYR Macedonia are claiming to be the real historic Macedonia of Alexander the Great. For both countries this issue goes very deep, very fundemental and principle issue for the both State's history, existence and legitimacy. So deep that the neighbouring countries boycot eachother everywhere possible, Greece has even blocked Macedonian EU membership and frustrated its nationhood. Macedonia could prevented all this, bu just giving their country another name, but it didnt because it was something fundemental for them. Today, 7 years later Greece is almost bankrupt and many EU countries want it out of the Euro. Greece has no neighbours who are member of the Euro, and who can express any solidarity by buying more of their bonds,, it stands alone. While Macedonia is not EU member, but booming in terms of economics but no Greek investors who can profit from it, because they hardly investged in eachother. My message Xaaji. Aqoonsi, calan, kursi UN'ta wax ka muhiimsan ayaa jira nolosha. Hadee iimaniso, wee imanisaa haduu ilaahay yiraahdo. Hadii kalena waa wax qoron oo qadr Iilahay ah. No need to fight your neiighbour for. Someday we might need eachother for something more important and then you will realize all this animosity is a waste.

Your a modest man Xiin. Even Oodweyneh admits that a debate without Xiin is hardly challenging and intellectually quite boring.

Che -Guevara;761129 wrote: ^You are not making sense. What doesnt make any sense?

Xaaji, Politics is about ideas and interest. Why would diffrent ideas and interest create animosity and mistrust between people? MMA, I may have contributed to some of the heated online debates in the past. But I think by now Somali's have learned more about their own politicial ideas and interest and that of eachother, and that the time of polarized heated debates is over. And that we should work towards the greater public interest or common well-being of our people. Dad baanu u maqanahay oo wax naga sugiya.

Dabrow;761115 wrote: Well I'm glad that you have enjoyed peace and stability and democracy but what other achievements you are talking about? Your post dont really say much. Any positive achievement. Like the two you have mentioned. My point was that patriotism is not determined by the flag you support or wrap yourself around with but by any positieve contribution to the people and the land.

Guys, the idea of this thread was to give all those kids and newbies on this site, the impression that there is no real animosity only political diffrences. So keep this in mind when you post.

Good initiative. Through dialogue and cooperation we get more things done, not by force and powerplay. Hope Somalia will soon join this cooperation to protect the Somali sea.

Somali Patriotist should be proud of Somaliland's achievements. Unfortuantly there many fake nationalist who consider every thief with the blue flag as a patriotist. They have misguided ppl for so long.

The funny thing is that whatever the outcome is of Somalilands nationhood, weather or not one consider eachother enemy or secesessionist. They will be eachothers neighbours FOREVER.

No doubt. For a long time within Somali circles those who committed themselves for the wellbeing of their people and their land(deegaaan) where considered tribalistic, un-patriotistic and small minded. While those who robbed in the name of Somalia and choose to do nothing for the people were considered as the real patriotist. But now many Somali's have discovered that real patriotism start at home.

Valenteenah.;761027 wrote: Trying your hand at peace-making, carafaat? I see PL and SL as husband and wife. Colna maaha, nabadna maaha. Val, my end goal is worldpeace but this starts with peace between Somaliland and Puntland.

I am a fan of Muhubooo. there many more video's on youtube.

Wie geths mit ihnen freulein Valenteenah? ich habe zwansig jahre keine Deutsche gesprochen.

Xaaji Xunjuf;760948 wrote: Carafaat are you saying these singers are not Somalilanders isn't Somaliland their country Yeah sure Somali is language but an Englishmen or an Irishmen from Ireland is not the same compared to an American with Irish origin even though they speak the same language and are Christians.People are from different nationalities and that's just something you need to accept of course the People of Somalia are the brothers and sisters of Somalilanders when we talk about religion and Language but they have different nationalities they differentiate from each other Even the Folklore dances of Somalia and Somaliland are totally different. Nice try Xaaji, There is no such thing as an ethnic Somalilander or an ethnic Djiboutian. Your nationality can be Somalilander, DJiboutian, Ethiopian or even Kenyan and someone can have the Somaliland citizenship but yout ethnicity is Somali, Afari, Amharic, Tigrey, etc. And if you are talking about citizenship, most of these singers have other passports and citizenships. Whay you are saying is these singers are from your clan and from other clans living in Somaliland.

NGONGE;761001 wrote: Still, forget Xiin and let’s talk about you Carafat. What’s your exchange rate warya? What do you mean?

Somalia, I though your capital was Garowe?

NGONGE;761017 wrote: Caruurtayada Mediterraneankay ku dhintaan, kuwa Somalia na "gulf of aden" ayaay ku bakhtiyaan. Way duushay wale! Still, this sounds like bare faced extortion to me. We're telling the Europeans that our kids are fleeing to their lands because of a lack of jobs. Therefore, the only expected response from the European is to help create jobs in SL. Beats dying in the sea I suppose. Still, somebody (local perhaps) needs to point out the exedus the other way. The SL government should ban European based Somalilanders from getting jobs in the country (not unless they start their own business). You know, this would make a great election slogan. Who has Faisal's number? Good point. Dont forget all the Kenyan's, Ethiopians and Sijui's who do local jobs. Blaming the foreigners for the unemployment works, atleast in Europe it does.

wauw, so young and already so talented with the language. maanshallah walahi. there should be a big media platform where these guys can show their talents.

I agree with Xiin on these two scenario's 1. But even if Al Shabaab is driven out and militia's/Azania step in. Al Shabaab can continue with insurgency and terrorism creating more fear and resentment(see the example of Iraq/Afghanistan). And if not all stakeholders, clans claiming the region are on board with the polical platform/Azania then the insurgency might increase making governance more difficult, so that foreign troops presence is stil needed which in turn might justify the insurgency for Al Shabaab supporters. 2. And if the foreign troops withdraw. There still will be a weakened Al Shabaab and militia's fighting. And even in this case you need to unite all the people in the region and create support an alternative political platform to Al Shabaab. And as the TFG isnt suited anymore to function as the symbolic cohesive political framework that can bring all stakeholders together which is needed to fill the political vacuum. Therefor the clans claiming the region and the city of Kismaayo need to come as soon as possible with an inclusive political platform supported by the clans in the region to fill the vacuum that will be left by Al Shabaab. It doesnt need to be Azania, as long as it is an all inclusive political platform that has the support of all the people and is created as soon as possible. There is already a vacuum left by Al Shabaab in Gedo and the parts in Jubba's cleared by the Kenyan's. So that is why I have earlier suggested that even if people oppose the Kenyan invasion, one should still support Azania for now. Because the political vacuum left by Al Shabaab has to be filled rather sooner then later.

in earlier threads Xiinfaniin was accused by some people of being a pseudo nationalist for opposing the Kenyan invasion and even being inconsistent. Some even said he supported the Ethiopian invasion back in 2007 while opposing the Kenyan, like the most Puntlanders have. But I have looked up old threads from back 2007 and Xiin did oppose the Ethiopian invasion and has not supported Yeey in that. So the man is consistent and cannot be accused of inconsistency or chearleading for Xabashi's(like General Duke). I think Xiinfaniin deserves an apology. Abtigiis should start with the Mea Culpa as he has thrown the first stone. then Ngonge for supporting Abtigiis accusation against Xiinfaniin, of being inconsistent.

Good move by UCID and UDHIS to merge. Only those parties with a enough support and voters will survive. The process of mergers and acquisitations has started.

MMA, waa run, Somali oo dhan ayaa isku baahan. laakinse ciyaalkan ayaan ku leeyahay kaftankan yar ee SOL inta badan u dhexeeya dadka kasoo jeeda Somaliland iyo Puntland run ha u qadaninaa, waa iska kaftan iyo ruwaayad. hadaa sidaas loo qaadan waayo dadbaa rumeysaniya oo cuqdad galisaa. taasna looma baahna.

Oodweyne;760849 wrote: :D As for Somaliland; I think, we have done that subject to dearth. And, you know and I know, not much will be gain in here, particularly in another round of repetitive sloganeering on anyone’s part, which I gather, will be what you will settled for at the end of the day; or more specifically along the lines of talking about a certain “Clan” and their political ambition; which is how you see Somaliland. And, even, in here, if what you could say about Somaliland is true (and no way am I concurring with you in here); but, still, for what is worth, one could borrow that old "biblical proverb" that says: "... Why do you see the speck in your brother's eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye? ..." After all, this whole farcical invasion from Kenya, has at least, at it’s unspeakable level, a certain political agenda, in which in it’s construction, that biblical proverb could do justice to it. Hence, it’s best to say it’s glad knowing that your version of Nationalism, has sense of “Alice-in-Wonderland” about it; given, that pretty girl in that story has go down in history claiming that words she used in any given day has no more and no less than what she intended them to be, regardless of their literal meaning... All in all, no sweat, my friend, for, we all have a "feat of clay" . It just that, many of us, take good care not to paraded them before those, with their sharpen pen, could be rely on to mock them endlessly. And, therefore, would not, in life of them, allow us to hear the end of it, indeed.. . Abtigiis, Oodweyneh has a point here. You oppose Somaliland's political ambitions from a "nationalist" point of vieuw while you at the same time support support Kenya's and your owns clan political agenda beliefing its the best for the country and for the people? Arent you doing precisely the same thing as you are accusing Xiin of? "The best defense is a good offense". Ileyn sababtaas ayaa baryaahanba Xiinfaniin u eryanisay, nin diifaac ku jira ayaa tahay Abti.

Jacaylbaro;760952 wrote: Somaliland is a country ,,, Bugland is a region in Somalia. Still Somaliland needs a peacefull, friendly region as a neighbour