[*]Djibouti is a small tiny country, Somaliland is un-recongnized and Somalia's TFG is weak. [*]Neither of these countries have a large and strong presence or no influence on the foreign stage, foreign countries nor International organisations(UN, AU, AL, WTO, etc). Most of the time the delegates of these countries to meetings are glad that they can go somewhere and someone can refund their tickets and hotel, [*]To illustrate the matter Djibouti for example has no significant presence in most European countries, Somaliland is present with unrecongnized representative's in most EU countries and TFG is present but has no policy direction/agenda or political backing whatsoever. [*]Another illustration most UN agencies or donors are not present or have no programmes in Djibouti(while there is hugh poverty and needs), Somaliland has little influence on donors and UN angecies programmes, the TFG has also little influence on their work and most of if is not even implemented and is spend in Kenya. [*]Somali livestock is exported by Arab traders directly trough Djibouti, Somaliland and Somalia for about 40 dollars per sheep(back in 2007 it even reached 28 dollars!!!), it is sold on the Saudi market for more then 120 dollars a sheep and sometimes during Hajj prices reach 200 dollars while the livestock herders receive the same amount. They are being sold out by Arab traders against eachother to the bottem. While in a normal market situation it;s the seller who determines his selling price, not the buyer. [*]The same also goes for frankinsence myrrh and other export products. Owners of tree's sell if for less then 10 dollars to middleman, the marketprice is between 150 to 400 dollar per liter! [*]Concerning Marine resouces. Djibouti, Somaliland and Somalia have sold fishing rights to foreign companies(countries) for their internal waters. These fishing contracts are very complicated and they receive a little amount, while these (legal) companies catch much and much more then agreed, no way their officials can monitor these vessels or no what to do. In Most countries the fish has to be first weighted in the ports before any foreign vessel can leave the waters, so that authorities can control, monitor and oversee te catched amounts, fish kinds, etc. And let me tell you the Somali waters contain the more expensive fish species(tuna, lobster, etc). We are talking of legal fish catch worth hundred millions, I am not talking about the illegal fishing(taasi waa sheeko kasii dheer). [*] Then you have the whole food aid which is sold on the market throughout the whole year and throughout the region. This food aid has distorted the complete agricultural and food market of the region. For a small farmer it doenst make any economic sense to farm anymore, or larger farms with a lot of foreign investment can survive. [*]The same distortion goes for all other products. Its difficult for Djibouti, Somaliland or Somalia to have any kind of Industrial production or Trade Policy on Goods(tarrifs), if cheap dump products come through the neighbouring country. [*]Same goes for Tax Policy. How can these goverments set-tup prober tax policies or for example raise Taxe on Business or products when its not even clear which business is Djibouti, Somaliland or Somalia based or how these products came in to the country? Someone who want to avoid taxes, can use the neighbouring countries port and still get the products in to the country. [*]There are estimations of tens of thousands of Somali youth in Foreign prisons. Most of the time for just being illegal in the country and without a diplomatic voice, there is no one who can speak on bahelf of them. And in many countries throughout Africa, Asia and Middle East this means for many that they will spend a long long time in those prisons. Khadafi during his last days, has freed thousands of Somali youth from his prisons. Many where there more then a year!! These are just some of the examples and practices that I know of. There is a time for politics and a time for diplomacy. And there are many good arguments for having a diplomatic dialogue purely on the most important Trade and Foreign Affairs issue's. And af course with taking in to account the following criteria's: -This dialogue should be purely based on common trade and foreign related issue's(see list above). -It's agenda, proceedings and outcomes would have to be based on consensus. -It's absolutely necessary that its based on trilogue between Djibouti, Somalia and Somaliland. -All three countries would have to avoid media statements that would give the public wrong image on what is discussed. Therefor it would be preferable if there would be a common press conference with all three representative present.. -Most important disclosure for TFG would be af course, that they have not recongnized Somaliland as an Independant Country. And Somaliland's would always repeat that this dialogue has changes nothing on its Indepedance and seeking recongnition. etc, etc. This has to be clearly communicated to the public. -Djibouti would to facilitate the meeting, as neutral ground. -All three flags and other symbols have to be present. I can imagine that some would still say, that this could create negative effect on the public perceptions of Somaliland's case or some others would say such a move would be perceived as the TFG recongnizing Somaliland or Djibouti being sucked in to Somalia's issue's. But I think the tangible end result on these issue's would be much more important for the Somali public, then some media heissa or initial public reactions(which our people always have onmost changes). If such a dialogue can get our kids free from those cold prisons, or our people more food on the table, or more income, more real development. then I say, lets do it.

Thankfull read my post above.

burahadeer;766499 wrote: Carafaat........true but the suffering of the entire somali population is home made & continues to be home made.The group that taunts somaliland are the ones creating havoc in somalia and little could be done as long as this entity is bent on destroying others,ofc unknowingly along with themselves..Suicide mission! Somaliland should focus on itself. Buradheer, Somaliland is beyond its fragile state and therefor it will not be easy to destroy it from within or whatever. But it needs to be made stronger, much stronger against all outside forces. Weather this is against foreign countries political influences and interference, international trade policy, protection of its natural resources, position and rights of its people abroad(tens of thousands of our people are locked up in foreign countries with no rights whatsoever), its marine resources being luted, etc, etc. Therefor I belief if would be a smart move and one that is for Somalilands own interest to start a dialogue with the TFG, first and foremost on how to deal on (urgent) Foreign Affairs issue's. Wether this is in the relationship with UN donor agencies, Somali youth in foreign prisons, dealing with Ethiopia, etc, etc.

Martida Makrafoonka: Shukri X. Bandare Barnaamijka Martida waxaa marti ku ah toddobaadkan Shukri Xaaji Ismaacil Bandare oo xalay magaalada New York lagu guddoonsiiyay abaalmarin caalami ah. Shurkri waxay madax u tahay hay'ad lagu magacaabo Candle Light oo ka shaqeysa Somaliland, waxaana abaalmarintan guddoonsiisay ururka caalamiga ee ka shaqeeya dhulka xasaradaha ee ICG Shurki ayaa abaalmarinta la guddoonsiiyay ku waxqabadkeeda ku aadan horumarinta waxbarashada iyo deeggaanka. Shurki waxay barnaamijkan uga hadlaysa abaalmarinta lagu guddoonsiiyay waxay ka dhigan tahay iyo waxay ku kordhin karto ama ka beddeli karto shaqadeeda.Qeybtan hoose ka dhageyso wareysiga Shukri Bandare. http://www.voanews.com/somali/news/Martida-MakrafoonkaShukri-X-Bandare-135791053.html

“A sheep” says a Somali adage “sees the sky only when it is being slaughtered”. The proverb has anticipated the fate of the Somali people… The butcher has arrived. The knife is sharpened. The Somali is about to see the sky for the first time. This paper is about epiphanies the Somali will behold at the moment of truth, at the edge of the event horizon from which nothing ever returns, just before the riding whip of slavery bites his naked backside. It is a near-funeral situation; we should ponder what follows in a sombre manner, with thoughtfulness and grief. The Epiphanies I: The objective of those who fund the Somali wars is not to rescue Somalis. It was, and remains to be, about limiting Alshabaab’s freedom of action, degrading its capacity and containing it progressively to smaller and smaller territory. The era of America’s great wars is over. This is the diktat of contracting economics of the time. Wars will now have to be fought cheaper and smarter; with the help of allies, with predator drones in the sky and expendable proxies on the ground. The strategy has succeeded beyond expectations in the Somali theatre. That the Somali people have become victims of a permanent war in the process is the collateral damage and truly unfortunate in the eyes of the funders. But it is neither here nor there. War is ugly. The weak perish in it. II: the Principle of IGAD in Somalia is not to recreate a Somali state (even a weak one, like the TFG); it is to prolong the state of disorder and chaos, to allow for the ripening of unclaimed real estate. IGAD’s ultimate purpose is not driven by the benevolence of a neighbour but by the base and more powerful human drives of greed and lust. I call a spade a spade: IGAD is primarily and almost exclusively driven by unstated yet obvious and macabre agenda of Kenya and Ethiopia. In this light Mogadishu is but a diversion and the TFG a sucker, a cover story, at best a patsy. To behold the stark reality as it stands on the ground look beyond Mogadishu. “ III: Ethiopia and Kenya have finally stumbled upon and mastered the most important lesson about the Somali people; a lesson that the British, French and Italians found extremely handy in the Scramble for Africa a couple of centuries ago. Somalia is not a nation in crisis but a group of desperate wild tribes each entirely focused in a life and death struggle against the neighbouring tribe. The maxims that determine the life and death of any Somali tribes-man (read every Somali) are the evolutionary psychopathological products of a nomadic society where water and grazing lands are the raw materials in the struggle for survival. These rules set every tribe against its neighbour, divide every tribe into multiple subunits each fighting against one and all. Nowhere in human society are the blind forces of Darwin and the raw evidence of the destructive potential of the selfish gene more evident than in tribal society. 15% of all tribal societies routinely die of the effects of permanent tribal wars (compare this to 3% of the affected societies that died in World War I and World War II) . The tribe is a ferocious and primitive construct that has lived in the past of every human society as the archaeology of the dead tells us. Most unfortunately the tribe remains alive as a vestigial form of social organization in Somali society and it continue to reap a heavy harvest in death and destruction. And Ethiopia and Kenya finally got it. IV: Truth of Partition: Partition of Somalia is no longer a fear, a theory but a reality that can be demonstrated on the ground.Ethiopian and Kenyan states have mastered the Maxims that govern Somalia’s tribal society and they put it to effective use in the service of their strategic and national interest. These same maxims have been used by aid agencies to ensure their own safety in troubled spaces and it lead to the era of Somalia’s Warlords that peaked with Blackhawk down and Ethiopia’s 1st invasion of Somalia. The mafia, mercenaries and private contractors have all used the tribal maxims to get their way with the Somali people in pursuit of their own interest. Ethiopia and Kenya governments have taken their exploitation of the Somali tribe to an altogether different order of magnitude. So in the last 3-4 years the two countries have been busy scrambling for parts of the dead nation creating spheres of influences that will function as buffer zones now and as the seedlings for territorial exploitation or outright annexation when the time ripens. A sphere of influence is a form of imperial rule in which one nation claims parts of another less powerful nation as being vital to its interest and enforces its “rights” through the use of force, corruption, intimidation and other tools of extreme persuasion. The Sphere of influence as the reincarnation of imperialism in Somalia has the following characteristics: 1) The creation of a series of subservient “state-lets” (Ximin iyo Xeeb, Dooxada, Cagaaran, Mareeg, Dhexe, Ceelbur, Galmudug, Azania) or shady movements (Raskambooni, Ahlu Sunna Wal Jama) based essentially on a local tribe headed by a cooperative native (Somali) who profits from the relationship; a state/movement that cannot exist without the open or hidden support of either Ethiopia or Kenya, that is independent even inimical to the Somalia state and that can act as vessel of legitimacy for the Tribal Armed Militia 2) Armed Militia composed exclusively of members of one tribe. This is the central element of the spheres of influence that Kenya and Ethiopia have set up in Somalia. The reason d’être of this force is the survival of the tribe and the defeat of the enemy tribe. It is independent of the Somali state armed forces, controlled by Kenya or Ethiopia and absolutely essential for the continuation of the Somali chaos. Some people, in their extreme ignorance call thiese militias bottom up building blocks. In reality the name building blocks is nothing but the Orwellian language Ethiopia and Kenya use in securing funding from the UNPOS for their respective spheres of influence. 3) An essential feature of the Somali Spheres of influence is the necessity of maintaining a weak, corrupt, divided, Somali state. Such an ineffectual state is necessary because it can be forced to change policy and personalities that conflict with the spheres of influence. It can be forced to cede territorial waters and to make other concessions. And most important such weakling of a state can provide an international cover of legitimacy as the Somali people are gradually stripped of their resources, their seas and finally their lands. The Road Map of Somalia (that has been created by IGAD) is essentially for the purpose of creating such a vassal state V: the United Nations Political Office for Somalia (UNPOS) is not a friend of the Somali people and it is not the enemy of the Somali people either. It is a disinterested third party, populated as it is with interchangeable faceless bureaucrats, whose quintessence is self preservation through the process of writing voluminous reports, organizing empowering workshops and arranging Orwellian celebration days with illustrious titles (international Labour Day, mother’s day, anti oppression, anti-racism, anti sexism days ad ifinitum). Whatever harm or benefit that comes to the Somali people from the mechanizations of these gentlemen is secondary to its Kafkaesque process. The life and death of the leaders and foot soldiers of this organization is not dependent on developments in Somalia only their livelihoods do and that they guard like a lioness guards its cubs. The UNPOS is the senior and perfect partners to the globetrotting Somali speaking, Foreign Passport holding parasitic entity known as Diaspora Somalis. The two sides have produced the most corrupt set of circumstances known to man. VI: the TFG is one of those mass delusions Somalis are prone to, for there remains many who, against all common sense and evidence, maintain there is a Somali government of some kind or the other working in this godforsaken hotel room or the other, paid for by the suitor of the day like any working girl in Craig’s List. VII: Somaliland Walaalkii loo xiiryow soo qoyso adiguna Abdishakur Jowhar (jowharabdi@gmail.com) ————————————————————————————————— Views expressed in the opinion articles are solely those of the authors and do not necessarily represent those of Somalilandpress editorial.

Actually most sensible people would never respond on such filthy thread. You and I should have better ingored it.

Buradheer, very few applauded Abtigiis, most sensible people would never agree nor applaud for his shamefull thread.

Som@li;766472 wrote: it is like a white supremacy kid, who fully supports the racism,lives, and eats and drinks white supremecy ideology, and then says i am not a racist, it was my forfathers who started it and I don't have a choice, as I was born to it. Carafat, You always have a choice. Don't support this racist clannish agenda! Supremacism is the belief that a particular race , species, ethnic group, religion, gender , sexual orientation, belief system or culture is superior to others and entitles those who identify with it to dominate, control or rule those who do not. SEXUAL Many anthropologists consider male supremacism, also known as “male dominance” or “patriarchy”, to exist in all cultures throughout human history . Under it special rights or status is granted to men, i.e. "male privilege." Such supremacy is enforced through a variety of cultural, political and interpersonal strategies. Others note that this often has been balanced by various forms of female authority. Since the 19th century there have been a number of feminist movements opposed to male supremacism and working for equal legal rights and protections for women in all cultural, political and interpersonal relations. Where, race supremacist belief in something and are striving for it, they are the rare exception on the larger human scale. Thats why it makes sense to call them racist if they a rare small exception. Male dominance is on the other hand much wider excapted in the most cultures and feminist are the rare exception believing in ideals and wanting to change the (male dominated) socities completely. My point, Somaliland's independance is widely and naturally accepted within Somaliland and those opposing it are the rare expection striving or believing in something which is not a fact at the moment. Somaliland exists more then 20 years and most people in Somaliland accept its excistense, like most of us accept that a male has to work and female has the right to take care of her children. Except those few extreme feminist that belief that society is to much male dominated and it should completely change. So who accepts nature or de facto excisting practise and who is the exception that denounces it and beliefs something else? Who is the real secession(or exception) today that beliefs and wants to withdraw from a larger part? Who is the exception on the larger scale? Who's vieuw are tangible and who's vieuws are attainable? Who has the overhand? These are fundemental questions that have not resulted in a clear overall answer yet. Mostly these debaates result in who's clan support something and who oppose the, who's clan is bigger, which tuulo or region is controlled by who, etc, etc. My point. We all know the political reality on the ground and vieuws of most Somali's today and yesterday. Name calling or labelling eachother wont help nor contribute to reaching an overall (end)solution or a better future for the Somali people. Knowing someone's political vieuws and not sharing them, and still calling them Secessionist, Clannist, Siyadist, F****sh, Xabashi lover, dhaba******, etc will contribute 0 to the debate nor will it make your own political vieuws stronger, or raise support. It will only further polarize the debate(and the people) and make dialogue more difficult without actually contributing to a final lasting solution and I think that is the single most important issue for our people today.

GoldCoast;766475 wrote: How about autonomist? That is somehow who wants to gain autonomy not really suited for someone who has full authonomy and is fully indepedant.

Che -Guevara;766463 wrote: ^What does your age have to do with supporting secessionist provinces in Somalis? It's the politics that defines you! Time has everything to do with politics. Yesterday's siyadist fighting for the survival of the Somali goverment are today's rebels opposing a Somali goverment, yesterday nationalist are today's clannist, yesterday's proponents of a centralist goverment are today's federalist. So when you call someone today a seseccionist, what exactly are you accusing them that they are withdrawing from? The TFG that was created in 2004? the Somali union? a Somali State, which Union? Which State?

MMA, Its good to see that the Police throughout Somalia and Somaliland have the same characteristics. It wouldnt suprise me if it were the same logo's and colours from before 1991. After all the Police doesnt get involved in to politics and only maintain the rule of law and the peace whatever governance structure there is in place.

Abtigiis;766393 wrote: What it cannot be is talking about the clan composition of the whores in Nairobi.............. [/b] Abtigiis,same as you cant link the clan composition or the pimps behind it to the "ONLF" clan, you cant link the "SNM" clan or its political cause to the choice of an individual women. And that is exactly what you are doing.

Che -Guevara;766454 wrote: You are still secessionist nonetheless:-) No, I am not so dont call me one. "Secessionism" like you call it took place 21 years ago, I was a child back then living in foreign land. If it took place today and I supported it, then you could call me one.

Centurion;766436 wrote: As ever the likelihood something constructive coming out of yet another conference are extremely low. Until there is a president, prime minister, parliamentary speaker and parliament who are united and who's priority is to return a semblance of peace and normality to wadanka (and not their individual gain- materialistic or otherwise) nothing of real significance will appear from their efforts and they sure as hell won't beat the Shabaab. Perhaps we will be lucky in the summer, and "elect" a president with some genuine credibility, who will designate a speaker who won't try to abuse his position at every opportunity. Saxiib, Somali's(institutions) coming together and consulting within Somalia without any foreign leader or goverment hosting them is a positive step. Go Garowe!

Good move by Djibouti. Wish Somaliland would follow its example and contribute to the secutiy in Somalia as well.

secession took place back in 1991.So, how logic is it to call one another 'secessionist' in the current time, if one admits the "secessionist" act already took place back in 1991, more then 20 years ago!! So, I say lets not call each other names anymore based on historical events that we have supported. Because there is nothing we can do about it anymore and lets focus on the future. For it is a waste of time and only emphazis old grudges one still has. This is my point. And Che has no rebuttal.

Police patrolling the streets Police officers arresting TFG soldiers who conducted wrongfully Police officers who finished their training. Police officers uncovered arms kept 'illegally' in Muqdisho.

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar;766426 wrote: You can either be a goosashadoon one or goosashadiid one. Wax u dhaxeeyo ma jirto, and your long, poor attempt to obfuscate isn't working, either. MMA, the union of Somaliland and Somalia was dissolved at the grand Conference of Northern Clans that took place in Burco May 1991. Maybe that some elders back then in 1991 opposed the dissolvent of the Union. But nonetheless decision was taken back in 1991, who I am to oppose a decision that was taken 20 years ago by the elders and the people on the ground. I support the self-determination of peoples. Weather people create new authonomous provincial goverment like the case of Puntland, Galmudug, or cut up a Province in to smaller parts like Ximan iyo Xeeb. Or they construct a TNG back in 2000 in Arta, Federal Goverment for Somalia that is working on the ground like the TFG now. Anigu waan tageraaa, wixii dantooda qabsaniya oo tooda ka tashanada, oo nabad raaciya. Governance waa Xal maha diin

Maddeey, khalad weyn ayaa lagalay wakhtigii 2006/2007 weerar lagu qaaday ICU. Laakinse khaladkaa aan wax ka barano, oo cidii meel maamul u sameenisaa ha la tageero oo lala shaqeeyo, oo ha la toosiyo wixii qaldan. hadii kale ma sidaad uun ayee umadu ku jiri. Markaa anigu horeey wallahi maan taagi jirin TFG, laakinse maanta madama ee Muqdisho oo dhan yaga ee hoostimada, shacabkii ee daleen, xal diyaar u yihiin, waan ku khasbanahay magalada cidii shacabku ogol ka yahay oo sharci ku maamulisa ina la tageero. markaa waa xal, mid qurux badan maha. laakinse waa Xal!

diffrence is matter of perception. wax fahan.

You undressed him publicly. And now your saying the man is running and engaged with Somalilanders, while being but naked for everyone to see. Xiin, wallahi ma nixisid.

Some members of this forum have get used to name calling others as 'secessionist'* because they are from Somaliland and they support the self-determination of peoples. Somalilanders withdrew from the union or reclaimed their independance back in 1991. Some would say they have secesseded back in may 1991 and withdrew from the political union. They have created their own political entity, Somaliland. So my point is. I am not a secessionist and do not wish not be called one.I was barely a child back then and was not aware of the political developments, nontheless I support the self-determination of Somaliland. Does this make me a secessionist? No, because even in the logic of the biggest of opponent of secession, it took place back in 1991. And since then Somaliland runs its own affairs whether you like or not, whether you support it or not, whether internationally recongnized as an full fledged member country of the UN/AU or not. So, how logic is it to call one another 'secessionist' in the current time, if one admits the "secessionist" act already took place back in 1991, more then 20 years ago!! Its like calling someone in the current time a Siyadist for supporting the regime back in the '80's, or calling someone anti-democrat, or treasonist for supporting the coup d'état back in 1969, or calling someone F***** for supporting the civilian massacres and other hidious acts of the '80's or mass-murderer for supporting Abdullahi Yusuf and the Xabashi mass slaugher in Muqdishu back in 2007. So, I say lets not call eachother names anymore based on historical events that we have supported. Because there is nothing we can do about it anymore and lets focus on the future. For it is a waste of time and only emphazis old grudges one still has. * Secession (derived from the Latin term secessio) is the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or especially a political entity. Threats of secession also can be a strategy for achieving more limited goals.

Many Somali's seem to confuse Police with Army because both wear uniforms and carry weapons. But internal security can only be brought back by the Police. Police personnel are recruited locally and its main goal is enforcement of Law and protection of civilians rather then fighting an outside enemy and therefore are more sensitive to local sentiments and cooperate with civilians for internal security. This makes the police more conducive to handling internal security duties. And its the first time in more then 21 years that real police are patrolling the streets of Muqdishu, rather then army dressed up as police and doing police work or !!!!

Markaa Police laguma arki jirin wadooyinka, askar kaliya. Maaddeey, adigu listka mucaaridka nabada iyo horumarka Shariifka keenay meel sare ayaa kaga jirtaa. Fadlan raali galin bixi, waa lagu saamixiyaa markaa.

since when do you consult Somaliland websites for Galmudug news?