Jimce mubarak, meeshan ma jecli inaa so galo. inaa sheeko dadka u gaar ah, so dhex galisid camal.

you removed the OG from your avatar. did you get married?

Galia, Abtigiis is not a sea pirate. he is a pirate on the land.

Oodweyne;773628 wrote: Carafaat , What you say may be well and true; but, what really matter is the "action" not the sentimental talk in which Somalis were known for. Furthermore, color me dubious, or even, dye-in-the-wool cynic, but, I am yet to be persuaded that the Somalis (particularly, the folks who are competing for power in Somalia, at least for the foreseeable future) are that high-minded enough to grasp the sort of argument we are entertaining tonight in here. Or to even could conceive a different "political paradigm" than the one their nose-to-the-ground could only imagine it. And, that is this game of musical chair at the TFG arena (which they have been involved in, ever since the "Arta" Farce begun, back in 2000 ). And, the upshot of that musical-chair, is that of the notion of waiting, obediently, to whatever the "powers-that-be" decides for them, at any given month of the year. Hence, although, it will be sublime justice for the well-trodden Somalis, for them to have a kind of far-seeing leaders in which the likes of the late president Mr. Havel of the Czech Republic proved to be for his nation (both during the then Czechoslovakia existence prior to 1992 , which was when he was a dissident, a play-wright, and, lastly, a democrat of the old European's enlightenment mold of the liberal sense; and the then to the Czech Republic after the separation of Slovakia from the rest of Czech Republic); it's unlikely to happen any time soon. Consequently, as you can detected it easily, I am not holding my breadth for that to happen in Somalia. And, the worst tragedy of it all, is that, although that it's most likely, that such a character (of the kind of late Mr. Havel was) has a chance to emerge from Somaliland due to the fact of the "normalcy of her politics" , as opposed to the kind of "gun-rule politics" that Somalia still is susceptible to, or at least still been practice there, but, still, his action will be akin to a "political prophet" that tries to preach the goodness of the "Tent Commandment" in a "house of ill-repute" , in so far as the rest of Somalia is concern. Hence, again, his bold action and "brotherly magnanimity" towards Somalia, will be thought of as a political "weakness" in much of Somalia. Consequently, he will run the risk of burning his political base in Somaliland and at the same time, having no discernible reciprocating gesture from other side of Somalia. And, that is why, I believe, if ever Somalia is ready to talk to Somaliland; then, Somaliland will be sitting not on a table between the two of them; but in a "table of three" , whereby, the "third interlocutors" will be that of International community, which is the manner the Sudan's issue was eventually resolved, indeed... I know, this may be a rather disappointment juncture to conclude our lively discussion. But, honesty, at least, in dealing with logic of the argument, compels me to read as I see it. And, most importantly, to base my analysis, not on what I do wish to see happening in the Somali peninsula; but, on the whole, how the cards of reality have being dealt or dish out in the ground in the Somali peninsula... Regards, Oodweyne. Oodweyneh, Actions are the outcome of ambitions which are mainly formed through our perceptions and worldy vieuw and less by logic as you want us to think. And formulating or assuming the positive vieuw and perceptions is absolutely important for the eventual outcome, more then it is dictated by logic or the ugly reality of today. And this where Chimera and I are finding one another. You on the other hand tie our ambitions back to the world and facts of today, without considering that there could be a whole diffrent outcome which is less calculatable then you want us to think. Chimera, you are a visionary. And unfortuantly we dont have more of your kind within our Somali community. Therefor we need to preserve you and your ideas and I suggest you stay far away of those who are not that blessed with the gift of imagination and think life is determined by logic, science, calculations and reality of today like Oodweyneh.

is it qudayaa mise qodayaa?

Why not in public?

Its called dancing. as if you never danced when you were younger.

Born and raised in Muqdishu, pearl of the Indian Ocean. And inshallah planning to retire in Marka.

Mareekan iga dheh. koley waan yaabay

bro, family aint the same as qabiil anymore. families dont have a political objective, qabiils have a political vieuw, strategy, leaders, etc. What if you dont share the clan's political ideology and strategy? try to change it or leave it?

Somaliland, the land of the Somali.

Has anyone ever thought about leaving their clan? Just back your bags and just resign, like you would resign a unsatisfactory job? If so, is there a guideline on how to resign or quite? are there certain conditions? what are the risks?

yes, al Shabaab is finished. but I am afraid that its ghost will haunt Somali's till the day we start acting on the basis of justice, equality and brotherhood.

Gabbal, One would hope and expect that folks would morally distanciete oneself from those tragic events and vieuws. If they are indeed a thing of the past. But the silence of many on the particular period and the recent debates and trends on the recapturing of Kismayo, does not indicate a closure of that history as you are suggesting here.

Welcome Galia, Did you abonden Snet?

xiinfaniin;773496 wrote: Oodweyne and smart ones know that separatist politics is a means to get a larger share from the Somali pie. What worries me is NGONGE who seem to have taken this thing quite literally . Wuxuu ku leeyahay Dawladda Qaranka ee Somaliland SSC admin is the only logical, effective vaccination to stimulate the immune system of weak Somali political polity to develop adaptive immunity to the separatist disease in the North. If the Oodweyne is smart, he and his ilk will realize what they are upto , which is not military power, but rather a well constructed political ideology that is fundamentally pro unity with deep historically nationalistic background. Xiin, even without SSC folks full support many in Somalia were prebared to give the Presidency and Capital to Somaliland. Imagine how much Somaliland with leverage from Awdalland and SSC could demand now? Atleast 60% I say. Dont think even Maakhir will be prebared to share the little that Puntland will be getting. It gets more in a political coalition with Somaliland. That is the some SSC politicians now have made and the reason for the Taleex Conference. If the Oodweyne is smart, he and his ilk will realize what they are upto , which is not military power, but rather a well constructed political ideology that is fundamentally pro unity with deep historically nationalistic background. Like who? the Bay and Bakool folks? Or you mean the real inhabitants of Banadir, Hiiraan adn Jubba's? Who by far form the biggest majority in Somalia? And what did they get in return. Nationalism wont buy you anything. Look how Puntlan deports Somali's, and still has the PM seat. Xiin, walee miskiin ayaa tahay. Waxba lama socotid.

Chimera;773505 wrote: Ace of Spadez, First, the North covers a wider territory than just Somaliland, including a vast swathe of land the latter claims but does not control. Secondly, its a stretch to claim "the Somali Republic disintegrated due to its militaristic adventures in Somaliland." The previous dictatorship accomplished its mission of purging out the SNM from the major cities in the North, despite the massive defections of Somali troops and pilots, so it was a practical solution to any opposition in his eyes. However, opposition to his rule was a country wide phenomenon that involved multiple disgruntled entities besides the SNM. Indeed, exactly a year after the SNM was forced out of the major cities in the Northwest in June 1989, there was a meeting between the USC, SPM and SNM on June 1990 to establish a united front against the dictatorship.( Small arms in Somaliland pg 17 ) It was this alliance that proved to much for the Dictator to handle, and is this alliance that forced him out. The Somali Republic at the time was still very much an existing superstructure recognised by the SNM, albeit one with a vacuum, or should I say "black hole". Now that we have settled that historic issue, we can focus on the present and the future. In a scenario where the current TFG - with its myriad of shady characters - succeeds in regaining the South from Al-Shabaab and establishes a competent government, it will be a game changer in the peninsula. For starters, without recognition Somaliland will always be considered a breakaway state while the government in the south will be considered the legitimate representation of Somalia, consisting of all its territories recognised by the international community. Such a government could make development and progress for Somaliland a serious difficulty by thwarting international investment. Such a government would have access to far greater monetary pots than Somaliland, with these funds it could employ "divide and rule" policies amongst the inhabitants of Somaliland at a far greater frequency and intensity than Somaliland could ever hoped to do so in reverse, we both know how these tactics employed by previous Somali governments seriously threatened the existence of established recognised countries like Kenya and Ethiopia (which lost Eritrea). You ask what would necessitate such policies in the first place? Have any of the lame-duck transitional governments welcomed Somaliland's bid for recognition? No! Therefore if the paper governments did not, why would a government with actual legitimacy, stability and a well-equipped military go the other way and welcome unilateral seccesion in one of its claimed territories? It won't happen, and because of that, the pattern in Somali politics has always been "conflict". This form of conflict doesn't necessarily have to be government troops attacking cities in Somaliland, it could be in the form of the divide and rule tactics I mentioned above, or naval blockades of its ports. While I recognise Somaliland's right for self-determination, I do not think in such a scenario where the government in the South grows in strength and Somaliland maintains its policy of non-negotiation that it will emerge victorious in such a conflict, because it does not have the same access to major funds that the government in the South will have access to. Movements like the SSC would suddenly have serious military hardware at their disposal, dormant groups within Somaliland would enjoy the same. All of this waste of funds and resources by the Mogadishu government to sabotage a breakaway state, and the latter's spending to withstand that sabotage is funds and resources that could have been better invested on building new roads and highways, better ports, thousands of new schools, hospitals and universities etc, etc. Its because of this why I earlier said the major Somali stake-holders who truly wish a unified Somali family to materialise in the coming generations to sign a pact of non-aggression. Do Somali politicians have this type of foresight? I do not think so. Chimera, I understood from your post as you are actually saying we need to break the cycle of Somali 'conflicts' by taking eachother's vieuw points in to account and respecting eachothers wishes to some extend. So we can start a positive cycle focussed on a constructive future. Otherwise the cycle of conflict continues which wont benefit anyone neither Somaliland nor Somalia and history might repeat itself in another form and sort of conflict? Is this correct?

xiinfaniin;773538 wrote: Xaaji Xunjuf, As I wrote earlier, SSC construct is the only effective approach to the secessionist delusion, and you know it. Dadka qaarba si bay wax ku fahmaan, nimankiinaan 20 ka sano ku hayya dawlad baan nahay, tanaa laydinku dayayaa , of course when there is a reasonable government in Xamar different approaches will be adopted comprising stick and carrots to ensure you come to back to the fold. But at this time and in avoidance of bloody conflict, this is the best approach. Oodweyne , Since 2003 you have been repeating this 'international reality' that favors your separatist agenda, and accordingly we've sort of accustomed your high talk and veneer of confidence with respect of your independence prospect. But facts are facts awoowe, and as far as we know Somaliland is not closer to recognition today than it was 2003. Same exact legal, security and political challenges remain in place. In fact the opposite can be argued, meaning political realities are beginning to hit home... Tukihii haruubka qarkiisa isku taagay oo weelkii iyo biyihiiba rogay weeyee taadu, laakiin tab iyo xeel baan kuu heli ee qolkaa xunkaa iigu xirnow Xiin, then why support Puntland while you want a strong central goverment? And why oppose Hiil Qaran who exactly the same you want, a strong central goverment??

Oodweyne;773207 wrote: Carafaat , I am sure there is no one; least of all, there is no "cohesive" Somali Family, in the manner you have set up your stall of an argument. However, what exist, I believe is Somali Culture, idiom, and customs, which in turn, if sufficiently tended to, in time, can create something resembling a "family" in a obligation sense; which in turn, could take the place of where the missing Somali family could be, few generation down the line... You see, I am sure you are not looking for anthropological lecture in Somali patriarchal associations (least of all you probably know as good as the next man), but, the independence of the Somali Republic in 1960 , wasn't just a new independence beginning for Somalis. But, it was also (at least indirectly) the moment, this sort of nurturing the disparate Somali atomized dia-paying groupings was meant to be put through a process that is akin to a "nuclear fusion" . Whereby, in time, the layers of the different groupings will melt, under the benign legal government, till, even the core of each self-contained groupings give away to the "amalgamated larger core" , in few generation down the line. However, the first impediment of that process ever starting in the ground was the how the division of power was handle, particularly the first few days of the new Republic in July of 1960 . And, the second, almost impossible to surmount obstacle, was, the "clannish competition" for the state resources, in which our pastoral democracy ( with it's almost 80 or so competing parties ) let loose on the society, between the years of 1960 to 1969 . Hence, those, two early wounds, effectively, arrested that natural process, that in time, could of created seemingly unforced Somali family out of crooked and clan-obsessed Somali timber. And, of course, the time scale we are talking about in here is in several generations hence.. However, the last dearth knell that have killed the whole hoped for amalgamation of Somalis into a what in several generations down the line could of come across as almost naturally collective and cohesive family (which is when the benign and the unforced "fusion process" takes it's time-consuming course) did occur during the late dictatorship period. Which was a period, that has essentially return Somalis in to their state of nature, in which a larger sentiment of any kind, other than "Zero-Sum-Survival" was put to back-burner. Hence, the accelerating process of the centripetal process (that was tearing apart the Somalis, emotionally) that has even redid the original baby-step amalgamation that was inaugurated in 1960 . Consequently, now is not the time to speak of "Somali family" , but, to preserve the disorientated and wounded members in their recuperating period that is now. Subsequently, after some period of reflection and tranquility was had by all who call themselves, at least culturally Somalis, then, at that time, the natural process of "fusion-ism" can began, afresh. First gingerly, by incentivising the process itself, in the sense of allowing a gradual knitting of society's various groupings (through trade and culture), given, that it's most likely, that the members that shall form the "Somali Family" are by then, and most definitely living under a different sovereign entities, be they Somalia, Djibouti, as well as Somaliland... This is the only way for Somalis to start a natural process of societal fusion, that is unforced, culturally aware, historically mindful of the pass, yet unafraid to try to imagine a different outcome than the one they have been living with it for some time now. And, lastly, has the potential to be game-changer of the horn-of-Africa... But, it requires grit, courage, vision, broad-mindedness, magnanimity, and above all else, sense of destiny and mission tempered with humility of knowing how far we have fallen, and how easy a messianic rubble-rousing with slogans, that is of "war and liberation" for the occupied land, could easily turn into a cul-de-sac, for Somalis as whole. In other words, this is a task of generations. Hence, the question is, Are Somalis up to it? Well, I have a tremendous doubt and a sneaking suspicion, in parallel. And, by that I mean, doubt of course, because, it's the nature of Somali character that one do happens to doubt extremely; particularly, their fickleness and their sense of not knowing the difference between what is ephemeral and what is long-lasting. And, in-terms of the sneaking suspicion, I do believe, that, if Somalis give a chance to Somaliland, in the sense of agreeing that time has come for Somalis to be magnanimous to each other, and therefore, start allowing Somaliland to have it's space and time to "recuperate" from the tragedy she has been through, through her own legal state; then, I believe that less than a decade, she will come back roaring into a her old self of having the largest heart of feeling and deep sense of "brotherly obligation" in any Somali peninsula. And, she will frenziedly go into over-drive in colecting what could be collecting into a larger Somali family, make equitable rooms for all (even, if she does it by creating and nurturing a state for Somalia itself, in her bosom) as well as become an untiring advocates for those who are under occupation now... Hence, there is all to gain, and nothing to loose, in that larger sense for the would-be Somali family that you have talked about it; provided, every one understand that there is no short-cut to our salvation; and it's Somaliland where it will begin, if ever that is, that painted rosy scenario is written in the stars for the Somali Family. And therefore, what is required at the moment is that collectively one must allow the one who is already ahead in the process of recovering that shocking experience of 1960 - 1991 , namely Somaliland, a freedom to maneuver; so that in time she will have the confidence to approach her sisters in the ditch and sees not as her enemies (which she currently does) but, her needed sisters, in whose their fate, however much they may disagree with each other, are intertwine till the ends of times... This is in my opinion the only way for the hoped-for a "cohesive Somali Family" ... Regards, Oodweyne. ******** PS :- So sorry about the length of this post, for it couldn't be helped!.. Oodweyneh, I agree with you there. But I think Somaliland has reached the phase that it has the complete freedom to manouver, that is has developed confidence and that people are less sensitive today about a diplomatic offensive then few years ago. Now is the right time to start the proces of dialoge. Why? -Cause the public opinion is more determined by the young ones. 70% of the Somali population is younger then 30 years old. They have more confidence in Somaliland and have not know or seen something nothing, therefor dont question or doubt the existence of their country and goverment and know very little about Somalia. And also in Somalia its the young people who will determain its future and they have also a diffrent perception and know a diffrent reality and are quite diffrent from the older generations, who are more negative about Somaliland. Dont you remember how most Somali media, older journalist and public opinion from Somalia used to call Somaliland, "Gobolada Waqooyi Galbeed", "Dawlada isla magac baxday", etc. This was not so long ago and these were mainly the older generation and now the public opinion in Somalia is set by a younger generation that fully accept the excistence of Somaliland. Belief me, I travelled around in the Horn of Africa and I know the younger generation from Somalia very well, they understand what went wrong, they have their own perceptions, have seen another reality and are much more open minded to start with a fresh beginning. Things have changed in Somalia, just look at how the clan or generational relations and dominance has changed compared to the pass. For example; who are those youngsters(most under 25years old) who work with Al Shabaab and have been controlling Somalia the last 4 years from Kismayo all the way to Dhusamareeb? or rally for political parties or do the implemention of goverment work in Somaliland, write daily news and opinion articles from around the world? they are not those who supported the old regime, nor the ones who fought for USC, SSDF and USC nor the ones who fought in clan wars. We have a momentum here to start with a new chapter and we should grasp that momentum rather then endlessly chasing the past.

Fruit juices are good for the digestive system and make you more energetic, less tired and sleepy. Nothing going on. Wifey is worried about your health. Try some vitamine C vitamine suplements.

FreshPrince;773307 wrote: It's going really fast. There is something fishy going on behind closed doors. Ali Khalif and his entourage are building a whole new agenda, as I and many others believe so. I think this meeting will create a State and that State will sooner or later be signing Agreements to be under SOMALILAND with certain conditions to be met. SSC State Joining Somaliland: Conditions: 1. Oog, Cel Dhab, Qorilugud to be brought back to the hands of the SSC clan. 2. Exact share of economical, political and social benefits 3. Autonomous State within Somaliland Republic 4. Blue flag as the State's flag. lol I think these will be the ground breaking agreements that Somaliland Republic and SSC State will have to discuss and agree upon. I'm not abandoning ship, I just saw what others in the SSC camp hasn't seen, yet. I for one support Somaliland Republic and it's Independence. Why? Ali Khalif and the G-6 will sign NEW agreements with Somaliland and at that point, the SSC population will be dazed and follow the G-6 like a sheep, being driven to grazing lands by it's Shepard. He who think Somaliland Republic will be abandoned by the Western Powers is dumb and naive. Do you really think the Queen of England and it's Western Powers will forfeit their support for Somaliland and it's Independence? Do you think England and the West will simply leave Somaliland after 150 years of mingling and helping the SNM clans in becoming strong? I see what others don't amongst my SSC clan. I assure you, this is an opportunity to live and let live. Get your lands back, take your share and live large! Bro, do you support such an outcome or are you opposed to such a compromise?

AfricaOwn;773230 wrote: In fact, you guys single-handedly made those that used to sit on the fence about Somaliland a true Somaliland supporters. The name calling, denying them, and all the other gimmicks hinder everything you supposedly stand for. You guys need an effective Pro-union propaganda to win over a small group, but you guys are already divided (the formation of the state puntland was actually a good thing for Somaliland Think about it AfricaOwn, eventhough you are right that some positive propaganda could inject some hope in those that are influenced by the negative talk. Still, there is no question about the Somalinimo of most Somali people. Irrelevant what some say.

Xaaji Xunjuf;773390 wrote: Jacaylbaro manad af turkish ka wax ka aqoon wakuwi beri berbera ka talin jiray eh

Bad move. Inflation is party caused by pychological price manupation on the part of the business community. There for it would have been better if they dropped a 0 or 00 from the paper face value, and printed 5 or 50 face value paper's. People would become more price aware, dampening pychological caused inflation.

Baashi, What happened in Baidoa and Kismayo during the 90's was not only some normal clans fighting among eachother for land and power in their ancestaral land or just due to failure of the State or Somalinimo State. It's much much worser then you describe here. Clans have collectively abused Somalinimo and the power and means of the State to loot, claim and colonize other people's land and proberty. Bringing a culture of looting, clannism and abuse based on clan dominance that was not known in those region nor local culture. Those regions had a peacefull culture of coexistense and opennes to outsiders and guests. Thats the whole reason many diffrent somali's from other regions were welcomed and settled there during the centuriesm.