Politically speaking, could the somalis not use the fact that there is oil and gas in their regions to their favour. I do see some parallels with South Sudan. They should have allowed the chinese to invest in their regions so as to 'alarm' the West and since Zenawi was playing the west off agains the chinese this was simply a card handed to them. After the chinese invested they then, like the south sudanse, should have mobilised massively for independence in terms of media, politics and military actions. The west would have wanted to thwart chinese investments by 'engaging' the Somalis/ONLF; though this was complicated by the fact that Ethiopia has been pro-west for centuries. Am I getting ahead of myself or could this have been a potentially successful strategy; after all it did work in South Sudan and Oil, it seems, is the kingmaker, from south-sudan to Benghazi. Any thoughts on this?

Why did they burn it? I mean it still had value and could either be kept or converted into dollars thought that would have flooded the Somali shilling market. What a waste of money though.

Taleexi;723576 wrote: Hasha Geela Cunta ee Cabaada. Thanks for your contribution yaa taleexi.

I am not talking about the ONLF specifically but the Somalis there in general. Their division, infighting, divergent objectives etc. and that strategically puts them at a significant disadvantage and makes their aim far more difficult to achieve. In terms of the conflict I think it would be more effective if there was a united Somali front fighting for the liberation of the region and IMO, perhaps naively so, this is something that the ONLF should seek to achieve in the long term. Of-course I fully appreciate that this is not in a vacuum but that the GovOfEthio actively seeks to undermine the ONLF and the Somali people in general by dividing them and that the GOE has its own strategies and policies. That said, I think that the ONLF, dominated by a particular clan, again I am not as well versed in the politics of this region as i'd like to be, has over the years alienated some of the people of this region and vice versa. I must also say that may people there have become far too comfortable with the region being part of Ethiopia. So what I was alluding to is that the ONLF faces an uphill struggle if all the Somalis are not united behaind the cause and that this is most unfortunate. It is an unfortunate state of affairs that Somalia, the potential catalyst to the region's liberation, is in need of liberation itself and in no way shape or form is able to provide support or guidance when Somalia is need need of that itself. It is an unfortunate state of affairs that Some Somalis in the Og/Sgalbeed region, without a strong government and stability [to flee to] in Somalia and also witnessing the chaos in Somalia, have lost the appetite for full-scale war with Ethiopia. It is, IMO, in general, an unfortunate state of events. There are my two cents, as they say.

O'gaden/Somali Galbeed Waan u danqanayaa lakiin sida Somalida badankooda strategy iyo fikrad ayaa ka qaldan.

Something that Farmaajo said about the diapora being a big contributor to the difficulties [to put it mildly] resonated with me and this is a thought that I have had many times myself. So my question to you all is: is the diapora more of a hindrance than a help in terms of politics ? Sometimes it seems, at least to me, that those in the diapora harbour more "hate", as discussed in the General section, than those at home. Let's be honest and say that, perhaps with the exception of Al-Shabaab [correct me if i'm wrong], the diaspora has empowered and contributed to the various factions in Somali politics by providing finanancial resources, human resources as well as strategic/tactical support; thereby proloning the conflict and the capacity of the people's and factions' ability to endure the conflict. This support is a two way endeavour though as those at home and those in the diaspora provide each other with moral justification and approval that that they 'are doing the right thing'. In terms of peace, have they done much to achieve this? What tangible things can you point to to show this? Even if so, have they been to narrow with the reach and scope of their ambitions. So my conclusion is that something needs to be changed in the mentality of the diapora before any tangible and lasting change can be seen on the ground. Thus, we not only need a reconcilliation at home but one abroad. What are your thoughts on this subject?

^^ Yh indeed some strong lyrics. But the "hooyo macaan" song is just a brilliant song. a deep song too. ---

^ True but there is only so far recognition can take you if you are not sovereign and there is only so far sovereignty can take if you are not recognised.

~ Someone should do a modern version of that song ^^

Waar maxaydun isla jafaysaan 24/7. Iska nasta anagana xagxagshada indhahayaga uga tudha. Private messages iskaga ciil beela haha :D

:eek: Poor Cheetah/Leopard :D:D

Sayid*Somal;722849 wrote: I said Qardho's prison is worse than Gauntanamo. Alas, i did not know your comprehension is at the same level as your geesinimo :D dee I concluded [by extention] that the prison is probably only a reflection of the place it is in and the people who run it :D but you are saying that is not so, so i'll take your word for it;)

Sayid*Somal;722744 wrote: That's more like Oday Saa moole - your apology is accepted. Odaynimadaadiina waa lagu soo celin once i have confirmation your fulaynimo is for real and Qardho charity houses have received the compensation albeit not liking the condition attached to it :D fulaynimo? You wouldn't be trying to provoke me now would you? lool u made me laugh though; you defended qardho by saying it was worse than Guantanamo which is what you took offence to in the first place :D:D --- Nice views saalax.

The Zack;722761 wrote: I will come back to address all other points as time permits but please answer this one question that I have asked repeatedly in this forum: you folks are telling us Somaliland has the right to secede, right? Do sscers have the right to refuse to secede with Somaliland? This is a closed question that requires a yes or no answer. Please don't dance on it, do not spin it either. Answer the question. Anyone? Xaaji? saalax? Oday? For me to answer that question, you'd have to answer my previous question to give me a better understanding of what you actually mean. btw interesting choice of people to address the question to. In the meantime, I will re-post, again, something that I have previously said many, many times. On the question of SSC. Of course, Somaliland is not going to be peaceful or successful if it tries to force people that are against it to be part of it (imo) . On the other hand, Somalia is not going to be peaceful if it tries to force Somalilanders who are against a 'union'. This should be resolved by way of a referendum. Like liibaan said, respect is a two way street. I wouldn't want Somalis to die and fight wars over anything, whether independence or something else. [i think that would be a priliminary YES to your question] . But, Zack, on the point of choice, is there personal choice or only clan choice [determined by a few]? If one perpetually links political differences to clan differences you are going to make a whole lot of people oppose each other than would otherwise be the case. For example if you represent everyone that is not "SSC", "AWDal" and "makhir" as anti union though some of them are pro union then you are alienating them. Vice versa if "Somalilanders" paint everyone that is, for example "SSC", as anti "somaliland" then they are alienating some of them .

loool I thought kaftun wuu yaqaana but it seems not, heck If you're gna have me locked up :eek: I have no choice but to apologise, so I apolologise... sincerely of-course and the compensation is already being put to use by the charity houses to teach kaftan to the ultra qardho-nationalists :D

^^ Let's not forget, like I said, some in the "SL" camp are for the union. It was a general rather than a specific point that I was making; Zack's comment was just an illustration.

And When I thought you cared about Qardho, it has taken you days to defend her honour hahaha. lol @ compensation it's too late now sxb :D:D I could only have paid compensation in the first 24hrs ee Kaasi ku dhaafyee maraqiisa cab Just kaftan sxb...

The Zack;722597 wrote: Folks, when the discussion reaches to the point where you start name-calling each other, it is better off if you just drop it. Overall, Aside from being a bit emotional, I think the folks from SSC are winning this debate. This win is based on this one main point: If Somaliland is seceding from Somalia because of their choice, SSC is seceding from Somaliland because of their choice. In my point of view, that is a strong point. The secession sympathizers should address that point to move this debate to the next level. NGONGE stated that there is no point to discuss this now because the rest of Somalia is in chaos and there is no place for Somaliland to return to. Well, what he forgot is that there won't be a recognition until the issue of SSC is settled. Maybe good NGONGE doesn't care much about the recognition as Rush Limbaugh (oops, Africa Own) accuses him of. Maybe I don't understand something that everyone else here takes for granted. Are Somaliland and SSC synonyms that, in this context, ya'll are using because qabiil names are censored out and we are actually discussing clan and not politics? Because from what I can tell from these threads, that seems to be the case. Nevertheless, even if is this the case, will someone explain to me why some people think/ are talking as though clans are political parties and that someone thus has a particular view because of his or her clan. Take for example Zack's comment above. Where he refers to "Somaliland" and "SSC", what does he actually mean? If he is referring to clans, how can an entire clan have one political viewpoint as though it is part of their DNA:confused: Zack, on the point of choice, is there personal choice or only clan choice [determined by a few]? In any case, though it seems not many have paid attention to what I said before, here it is again: If one perpetually links political differences to clan differences you are going to make a whole lot of people oppose each other than would otherwise be the case. For example if you represent everyone that is not "SSC", "AWDal" and "makhir" as anti union though some of them are pro union then you are alienating them. Vice versa if "Somalilanders" paint everyone that is, for example "SSC", as anti "somaliland" then they are alienating some of them.

loool I see your avoiding the questions. Good night sxb.

It seems SNM is stuck on your tongue so I have a question for you: how is SSC different from SNM and how do you reconcile you hate for SNM, supposedly becuass it is a one-clan militia, with you love for SSC ? Personally I see no difference between the two. Explain something else to me as well. I said that I don't particularly disagree with Somaliland independence as long as they continue their achiavement and SSC is not forced. This you trasnlated into support for SNM/Somaliland on-clan faction. Then you say yourself: "we should respect if Hergaisa, Burca, and Barbara want to have a country called “Somaliland” ". Are you then, by the same logic, not supportint SNM/Somaliland one-clan militia? [and thereby a qabiilist whilst supporting SSC is not at all qabiilist]. Oh, I remember, you never denied being qabiilist.

I see you have brought some quotes of you previous "work". This particular comment (above) is not what my comment was regard - otherwise I would have made that point when you originally posted this comment you are quoting now. Anyhow, as for my views: Ideally , I would like a united, strong, affluent and non-tribal Somalia . This, for me, is not abstract but with purpose. In other words - I don't see this as an end in itself but a means to an end. So what is the end to which we are/should be stiving ? Do we want a united Somalia just for the sake of having a united Somalia or does it serve a pupose? Does Somalilanders want independence just for the sake of disunity/as an end in itself or does it serve a purpose/is it a means to an end? In the wider context of the regional and international political arena, how realistic is this? Lastly, are there other ways to achieve the end to which we are/should be striving? If there are those who want independence how and when can we re-unite the country and if this is the most strategical and effective way to achieve the, as yet undefined, end to which we are/should be striving? I will answer these questions. So what are the end to which we [somalis] should be aspiring ? I think peace, sovereignty and development for all Somali people in the Somali Peninsula should be something to aspire for. To achieve this, if we are talking practically, the various Somali camps are going to have to reconcile and understand each others objectives and interests; this, at some point, is going to require that someone somwhere makes some concessions/sacrifice. I also think that the different camps should be judged by the results that their camp has produced (for its people but also how it has affected others). Division, also, is also not an end in itself but [iMO] is a by-product of the current political realities on the ground. I was listening to the BBC the other day when that SNM guy was asked what ku kalifay Somaliland to declare independence and he said: when the south formed their own government; they also said, when asked why they are not negotiating with the south, who should we negotiate with, who is the government (TFG, al-shabaab, Puntland, Galmudug...etc)? Somaliland and Puntland have become stronger and stronger the longer the south has been in turmoil and has been finding it difficult to form a government (20 years). Quite frankly, those two entities are more of a government to their peoples than Somalia proper has had in 20 years and this does give them some bargaining power and support of their people. Some are trying to bring back Somaliland[ers] by force, name-calling and attempts to humiliate them which in reality is only pushing them farther away; instead of a stick, try using a carrot, see what happes. If you have no carrots then you are only left with a stick, which is unlikely to work. A saying goes along the lines of miro geed ku aal, ha u qubin kuwa guntiga kuugu xidhan. But in this case, there are not even any miro on the tree but instead pills of death and destruction. So if me not part-taking in name-calling somaliland means some of you label me as "secessionist who wants to divide Somalia into mini-clan states.", so be it. If Somaliland and Puntland, in contrast to the south, were not peaceful with relative law and order; in particular if Somaliland was not peaceful, stable, democratic and not shown its long term (20 years) political resillience with successive governments, I would not be inclined to think that perhaps they should have their independence if better anables their governemnt. If today the Somalis there [of various clans] are not living in peace and their children are going to schools I would not be inclided to think that perhaps their government should be independent if it better enables their government. Whether Somaliland is independent or not, should be determined by a referendum and it is upto Somalia whether we present a viable alternative. Personally, I have lost confidence in both the TFG and al-shabaab and quite frankly the former is only marginally better than the latter. Every time there was a new 'government', a new speaker, a new PM, a new or a new movement there would be a glimmer of hope of a restoration of law and order. When in 2006 the ICU made major gains against lawlessness and and later its head became the President, there suddenly was not a glimmer but a ray of hope. This hope, every time, failed to materialise into results and thus I have adopted a wait and see strategy and don't even bother talking about that political mess. Personally, the way the situation is currently, if I was from Somaliland, I would also opt for independence. I see Somaliland like a smaller version and case study of how Somalia will one day (inshallah) be (in peace and recovering). If they are able to unite all the people living in Somaliland, they will achieve great things, together. If they cannot for some reason unite these people, it will, at least for me, be the final nail in the coffin for Somalis as it will show that no matter how far you go, even after twenty years of apparent progress, Somalia is Somalia; divided, qabilistic and stuck. It will be one more thing destroyed by qabyaalad. Soo... a case study to watch, for Somalia but also for Somali galbeed. One thing i fear from what is going on up north is the tribalising of the politics and people and the division following on from that. If you push and push and push people away from each other on the basis of clan e.g. "awdal" "sscc" "makhir" and your "somaliland" interpretation", it is simply not going to work in the long term in terms of achieving any progress for anyone. If one perpetually links political differences to clan differences you are going to make a whole lot of people oppose each other than would otherwise be the case. For example if you represent everyone that is not SSC, AWDal and makhir as anti union though some of them are pro union then you are alienating them. Vice versa if Somalilanders paint everyone that is, for example "SSC", as anti union then they are alienating some of them . IN any case, pro-unionist camps should not use clan to divide people to hope to later unite them as in the process they will create real and lasting hate that will have side-effects and will shape the future. Otherwise in future, when things get hard, people will turn to what they know best and that is clan.The trend/strategy by unionists of division by clan, is wholly a wrong one; that I must stress; dividing by clan to try to re-unite later, is not basis to build a country [somalia]. The various Somali camps will have to reconcile their diverging abjectives/views and as such, someone, somewhere, at some point, is going to have to makes some concessions/sacrifice and that since 'unity' is not an end in its self but a means to an end, the different camps should be judged by the results that their camp has produced (for its people but also how it has affected others). IMO Somaliland's achievements speak volumes about which camp should concede, that is if Somaliland can get all the people living within the borders it claims on board (which it may over the long term). On the question of SSC. Of course, Somaliland is not going to be peaceful or successful if it tries to force people that are against it to be part of it (imo) . On the other hand, Somalia is not going to be peaceful if it tries to force Somalilanders who are against a 'union'. This should be resolved by way of a referendum. Like liibaan said, respect is a two way street. I wouldn't want Somalis to die and fight wars over anything, whether independence or something else. Where is Somalia at now. Let's not kid ourselves by saying it is united becuase Somaliland is currently not recognised. If Somalia was peaceful, had a government etc. there would be no reason for Somaliland to want to be independence..

hahahaha, you might as well have posted your original comment I repeat: In your moment of attempted defence mode, you have inadvertedly confirmed that you're a tribalist, which was clear for everyone to see anyway. You didn't deny being a qabilist but accused me of 'hypocracy - that I shouldn't call you out on your qabiilist tendencies. If you want to know my opinion, click here . I will remind you: "Dugsi ma leh Qabyaalad waxay dumiso mooyaanee". Cheers.