Baashi;725895 wrote: Well Israel is double sided story. With that background, yes Israel is a success in many ways -- economically, technology, and militarily. But unlike other nation states much of its success is subsided -- directly and indirectly -- by other state actors and citizens who sympathize with the plight of Jews in Nazi Germany. Take technology and military fields -- one can characterize ascendancy in these fields as transfer of sort . I was thinking along those lines also. I do think that there are lesons to be learnt though in terms of utilising our diaspora.

In the rainy seasons sidewalks and 'roads' become ipassable due to the mud and puddles. Cobblestones, brick and setts could be used on residential streets and pavements. Aesthetically it would be better pleasing and it would also be more practical for pedestrians, vehicles and it would improve trade. Even where I live, most of the residential streets are cobblestone and the busier roads [main roads, feeder roads, ring roads, motorways] are asphalt]. It works just fine with speed limits enforced in residential streets. It is about making the most with what is available.

N.O.R.F;725903 wrote: You can't be serious Oday?? Thousands of years ago people didn't drive ps are you going to provide people with 4x4 Toyota Landcruisers to navigate those cobble stone roads? loool Are you sure they didn't drive ? I think cobble stones could be good for residential streets [not main and/or busy roads]. It will require speed-limits but it could work. Those who have cars have cars.

Jacpher;725839 wrote: Human life takes precedence over road conditions. Somalis are still struggling to figure out how to save their own lives. They can figure them out at the same time or Post-war period or even now as the most conflict is only where the opposing forces meet (within each faction's area of control they may be able to implement some projects).

Boom Boom;725821 wrote: What do you mean takes a hold? Listen here old man, it has already taken hold. In the city I live in so many young males are in jail. Open your eyes and stop being blinded. Maybe if the males in your generation didn't destroy our country and continue to destroy communities in the West, this wouldn't have happened. You seem very emotional but I suppose this is an emotional thread... It depends on where you live. In my city, not one Somali person is in jail as far as i'm aware and neither are they involved in the crime stuffs. In any case, more needs to be done to prevent more Somalis from falling into the trap that is that dangerous life-style. As for what else you said me [alla maxaa dad hilarious ah ka buuxa SOL,] You know nothing about me so cut the emotional outburst and get yourself together- fadlan let's not let personal emotional outbursts provoke irrelevant bickering in a thread as serious as this one.

Would toll-roads be an initiative for the private sector to invest? --- Asphalt Asphalt is a byproduct of the distillation process of certain crude oils. It has been used to pave roads and driveways since around 1870. About 85 percent of the asphalt used in America is used on road surfaces. The cost of asphalt is linked to the price of crude oil, and consumers these days often are looking for a cheaper alternative. Gravel Gravel is widely available in small bags from the garden center or large quantities from specialist suppliers. You can buy it in a variety of sizes and colors to make an area as decorative or as functional as possible. Gravel also offers great drainage and is unlikely to ice over in the winter. Paving Stones Paving stones are a cost-effective alternative to asphalt and are easier to repair. If a stone gets damaged, all you have to replace is that single stone. They are strong and durable and, like gravel, are available in a number of finishes. However, paving stones would possibly only be a good alternative if the area was subject to light wear. If heavy traffic were to go over it on a regular basis, there is a chance that the stones would crack. ------------- - Permeable paving - Setts [rectangular quarried stone paving] -Cobbles - Bricks concrete - Wood plank paving [lol] --------------- Material and/or paving method to be used depends on: - cost and avilability of materials - cost and avilability of labour - traffic volume - expected weight of vehicles to use road "Brick, cobblestone, sett, and wood plank pavements were once common in urban areas throughout the world, but fell out of fashion in most countries, due to the high cost of labor required to lay and maintain them" [yes, that is a quote from wikipedia].

Old ideas are sometimes best Elissa Jobson A comparison between the long-term costs of using imported asphalt versus locally available rocks for paving roads and pavements in Ethiopia shows one clear winner, writes Elissa Jobson In Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, the pavements can be treacherous to walk along. Many are simply dirt tracks strewn with stones and boulders, and even on the tarmac sidewalks that run alongside the main arterial roads, potholes and crumbling asphalt mean that pedestrians have to carefully watch their step. In the dry season the wind whips up dust, stinging the eyes and burning the throat, and when the rains come the paths turn to mud. The same is true in towns and cities across the country. Adama, situated about 100 kilometres south-east of the capital, has, however, applied an age-old solution to this problem: its roads, pavements, marketplaces and public piazzas – including Millennium Square, the focal point of urban life – are being paved with locally sourced, locally-produced granite setts. The resulting cobblestone paving has made transit around this central Ethiopian city easier, leading to an increase in commercial activity and a reduction in crime, it has also provided work for thousands of unemployed men and women who quarry, transport, cut and lay the stones. The idea for the Cobblestone Project, as it is known, developed out of a government decision to use setts to pave the walkways, roads and courtyards on new university campuses being built at 15 separate sites across the country. With help and expertise supplied by the German Society for International Cooperation (GIZ, formerly GTZ), the aim was to encourage the formation of small local companies which would be awarded contracts on the campus, and whose employees would be taught how to make the cobbles and construct the paving. By August 2007, long before the project had started on the university construction sites, the municipal authorities in Adama had begun their own paving programme, initially providing work for 80 stonecutters and pavers. Soon a regional training centre was established and people from all over Oromia Province and beyond travelled to the city to learn the skills they would need to pave their own towns and villages. Granite setts have numerous benefits over tarmac, the more common alternative. “Cobblestone roads are easy to maintain and no asphalt need be imported. Only the local currency is needed and the raw materials (basalt, granite and trachyte) are available nearly everywhere,” explained Roland Moezer, leader of the Cobblestone Project at GIZ. By using local resources and eliminating the need for expensive imports of oil-based materials, Ethiopia is pioneering a greener and more sustainable method of road construction. Plus, cobblestone roads are more durable – according to Moezer, the areas in Adama where he supervised construction are still in perfect condition four years on. As well as being easier and cheaper to maintain – if a pothole does eventually appear the affected cobbles need only be lifted and replaced – the technique can also be effectively used to repair damage to existing tarmac roads. On top of this, granite paving is much cheaper to lay than its asphalt equivalent. While the cost of preparing the ground and sub-base is the same for both materials, the price of laying 1 metre square of cobblestone is less than half that of asphalt, costing 280 and 680 Ethiopian birr ($17 versus $41) respectively. The whole process is extremely labour-intensive – but this is hardly a bad thing in a country where unemployment is high, especially among the urban youth. On average one paver can lay around 15 square meters a day for which they need 1,500 setts. So to keep one paver fully occupied, 25 stonecutters producing 60 cobbles a day are required. The labour may be physically demanding but the wages, paid on a piece-rate, are good by Ethiopian standards; those laying the paving earn, on average, 150 birr (around $9) per day, while the lesser-skilled chisellers are paid a daily rate of approximately 78 birr ($4.5). And the employees seem happy. “This is a wonderful thing for our lives. The wages are very nice – we receive good money,” said Kelamu Getachew, a paver from Adama. At the end of 2009, when the Ethiopian government took over the project, more than 2,000 small and micro-enterprises had been created, providing employment for around 84,000 stonecutters and 4,700 pavers who had laid 1,230,000 square metres of cobbles across the country. “I’ve been in the development cooperation business for 30 years and I have never seen a project take off so quickly,” said Stefan Helming, former Director of GIZ in Ethiopia, who oversaw Cobblestone from the beginning. “It started with the training of a few chisellers and stone-layers and it mushroomed in no time at all.” Today, only three and half years since the first cobbles were laid, the project is still growing. The programme has been rolled out to 120 towns and cities across the country; around 2,200,000 square metres have been finished; and an estimated 130,000 people (45 percent of them women) are employed in the trade. Awassa, Bahir Dar, Mekelle, Dire Dawa, Harar and Addis Ababa have now established their own training schools. And, with the private sector showing an increasing interest (in Addis Ababa foreign embassies, hotels and businesses are using granite paving in their own compounds), the programme’s future looks bright. The Cobblestone Project has proved that by using the best technology for the job – not necessarily the newest or most widely used – sustainable, local solutions can be found for pressing infrastructural problems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For god sake people thousands of years ago manged it so why can't we?

If the reason that we have few paved roads is because paving them is expensive when should we not be looking at [cheaper] alternatives as we develop our economy? It seems little is being done by way of innovation and that is quite dissapointing. Are there any cheap methods of creating sufficiently smooth and stable/strong surfaces on which vihicles can be driven other than asphalsted roads ? I was reading the below article about how one town in Ethiopia decided to use cobblestone instead as a cheap alternative using locally available materials. See below:

AUN to all of them. It is very sad indeed. Something needs to be done about the gang/crime culture before it takes a hold on the Somali youth.

An article, detailed info and a video of one of the victims. THE MILTON KEYNES CITIZEN - http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/he_was_our_little_brother_he_ll_never_be_forgotten_1_2733567 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7UWXb8pQ8Q&feature=youtube

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3604474/Gunman-executes-brtwo-teen-friends.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News More info and a video of the crime scene.

South Africans in rare anti-xenophobia march - BBC NEWS South Africa was hit by a wave of deadly xenophobic violence in 2008 Continue reading the main story A rare protest has taken place in South Africa in defence of Somali and Pakistani businessmen threatened with xenophobic attacks. A crowd marched through an informal settlement in Johannesburg chanting: "We want the Somalis to stay." The march was intended to counter a protest by local businessmen demanding the closure of foreign-owned shops. "I'll never allow foreigners to take bread from my mouth," a South African businessman told the BBC. 'Greedy and jealous' He said that South Africans fought for democracy, and it would be a "criminal offence" to allow foreigners to dominate trade. "I'm a businessman who wants to make a profit," he told the BBC's Focus on Africa programme. But the anti-xenophobia campaigners, who were all mostly women, rallied to the defence of the Somali and Pakistani shop owners in the Ramaphosa informal settlement, which witnessed some of the worst violence during anti-foreigner riots in 2008. Somali businessman "They are the only shops from where we can buy things cheaply," one of the marchers said, adding that local businessmen were "greedy and jealous". The BBC's Nomsa Maseko in Johannesburg says that as the rival groups demonstrated, the Somalis and Pakistanis locked their shops and stayed indoors while armed police patrolled the area. "The police are giving us protection," a Somali businessman said. "They told me to close my shop for own protection," he said. At least 62 people died in attacks on foreigners that swept the country three years ago.

Angry residents harass Somali traders INLSA TAKING LAW INTO THEIR OWN HANDS: Residents from the Ramaphosa informal settlement in Boksburg vent their anger at a foreign shopowner by banging on the walls of his small shop. Picture: Antoine de Ras Somali shopkeepers in the Ramaphosa informal settlement east of Joburg were forced to close their shops yesterday for fear of violence and looting. Police were called in to maintain order as ethnic tensions threatened to boil over. A group of residents rose in the early hours of the morning, set up a loudhailer in a sedan and drove around the settlement, calling on others to confront the numerous Somali shopkeepers in the area. But other residents defended the foreigners who were being told to leave by the mob. The people with the loudhailer drew support from about 200 residents, who discussed how they would remove the Somalis from the settlement. The group, rallied in the freezing cold by community leader Johannes Ramaropene, were told to approach the foreign-owned businesses, asking for the owner’s residency permit and tax clearance certificate.If these were not provided, they were told to “remove” the owners. Ramaropene, a recently suspended member of the Reiger Park Business Forum, spoke angrily to an eager crowd about the alleged Somali threat to the community. “Our money, our South African economy is affected,” shouted Ramaropene. “This is not Somalia.” He accused police of accepting protection money from foreigners so that they could keep on operating their businesses “illegally”. The business forum, which said earlier this year it wanted to solve the foreign shopkeeper issue without confrontation, was not present, except for one woman who claimed to be a member. By 10am, two police vans with a few heavily armed officers approached the crowd and attempted to disperse them. Officers were allegedly trying to arrest the leaders of the group, but the crowd told the police to arrest them as well. As tensions rose between residents and the officers, the police decided to simply monitor the situation. The crowd requested the police help them close the illegal shops, but they refused. “The correct way is to lay a complaint at the (Reiger Park police) station, so that we can investigate properly,” said station commander Colonel Barry Mashaba. Ignoring police attempts to stop them, about half of the crowd began to approach dozens of spaza shops on the main roads, shouting at the owners and telling them to leave. Persistent police patrols made sure the crowd did not become violent. In a surprising move, residents living close to the shops also demonstrated their disapproval of the harassment by toyi-toying. “This is totally unnecessary,” said resident Mavis Kunene. “These shops help the community. They open early and sell cheap (products).” At HornAfric, a larger grocery store, owner Guracho Mohammed simply nodded when confronted by about a dozen protesters and told to get out of the area. He went back inside his building, looking perplexed. After he was harassed, he told The Star he was relieved the crowd had not become violent, despite numerous threats. By 1pm, most of the crowd had dispersed, leaving shopkeepers torn between opening up their businesses or remaining shut. An hour later, they remained closed. Constable Mashudu Phathela of the Reiger Park police station said that often the hidden aim of residents ganging together to incite the removal of foreign shopkeepers was to loot the premises. Phathela and Mashaba said an increased police presence would keep the peace throughout the night. Some Ramaphosa residents have spent years attempting to clear the area of foreigners, culminating in the 2008 xenophobic attacks, which resulted in the violent deaths of dozens of non-South Africans. - SHAIN GERMANER

This is topic is off-tangent, especially on a Somali forum, I know. Israel is a fantastically interesting case study and there is much to be learnt from how this 'state' was built - particularly so for post-war Somalia [reconstruction, development etc]. Now I am not too familliar with their history and don't the time to read books, articles and websites to inform myself sufficiently. But what I do know is that here you basically had hundreds of thousands of people suddenly up-and-move to what was palestine. Since, they have built a country with infrastructure, governance and an economy that are the envy of many. I am vaguely familliar with the kibbutz system but I am interested to know in the details how they built everything up and achieved all that they did achieve in the past 60 years. It is truly fascinating and worthy of study. When compared other countries and peoples, for example post-independence african countries, I know not the best comparison, why have they been able to succeed so well so quickly? Israel did have an amzing pool of human capital to work with; was that the crucial factor? Was it the political and financial support from the west, which though ignorant about, I am sure they are likely to have received? Is this a valid case study for Somalis and/or any aspiring under-developed country? Is anyone fammiliar with this subject and or interested in it? Can anyone provide any links, titles of books, website etc. ? I look forward to your opinions!

Amiin. AUN samir iyo imaanna ha siiyo the families.

Go to youtube to watch the other parts of the two documentaries,

One day, justice shall be sought.

Wasirka kuxigeenka wasarada kaluumeysika iyo dakadaha ee maamul goboledka galmudug cilmi kulan geedi ayaa kawarbixiyey halka ay mareyso furitanka dakada magalada hobyo ee dowlad goboleedka gal-mudug. Shirjaraa,id oo uu kuqabtay xaruunta wasarada ee magaalada galkacyo ayaa waxuu kaga hadlay halka ay mareyso hoowlihii dib loogu furilahaa dakada magalada hobyo asagoona sheegay in xariga lagjaridono asbuucyada soosocda. Cilmi Kulan Geedi wasiir kuxigenka wasarada kalumeysiga dakadaha iyo Qeyradka ayaa carabka kudhuftay in dakada ay udhanyihin dhaman agabyadii ay kuhoowl galilahey islamarkana loodiyariyey shaqaalihi kahoowl galWailaha. Sidoo kale wasiir kuxigenka ayaa kahadlay dhibaatooyinka xiligan heysta kaluumeysatada kajilabata xeebaha deganada gal-mudug asagona sheegay in ay kamid yihiin in ay dhibaato kala kulman maraakiibta shisheeye ee kusugan biyaha wadanka soomalia oo inta badan ay kaluumaysatadu ay carqalad kalakulman xiliyada ay kuguda jiraan hoowlahooda kaluumeysi. Wasir kuxigeenka wasaarada kalumaysiga iyo dakadaha ee doowlad goboleedka galmudg ayaa waxaa uu intaa kudaray in sidoo kale kaluWasirka kuxigeenka wasarada kaluumeysika iyo dakadaha ee maamul goboledka galmudug cilmi kulan geedi ayaa kawarbixiyey halka ay mareyso furitanka dakada magalada hobyo ee dowlad goboleedka gal-mudug. Shirjaraa,id oo uu kuqabtay xaruunta wasarada ee magaalada galkacyo ayaa waxuu kaga hadlay halka ay mareyso hoowlihii dib loogu furilahaa dakada magalada hobyo asagoona sheegay in xariga lagjaridono asbuucyada soosocda. Cilmi Kulan Geedi wasiir kuxigenka wasarada kalumeysiga dakadaha iyo Qeyradka ayaa carabka kudhuftay in dakada ay udhanyihin dhaman agabyadii ay kuhoowl galilahey islamarkana loodiyariyey shaqaalihi kahoowl galilaha. Sidoo kale wasiir kuxigenka ayaa kahadlay dhibaatooyinka xiligan heysta kaluumeysatada kajilabata xeebaha deganada gal-mudug asagona sheegay in ay kamid yihiin in ay dhibaato kala kulman maraakiibta shisheeye ee kusugan biyaha wadanka soomalia oo inta badan ay kaluumaysatadu ay carqalad kalakulman xiliyada ay kuguda jiraan hoowlahooda kaluumeysi. Wasir kuxigeenka wasaarada kalumaysiga iyo dakadaha ee doowlad goboleedka galmudg ayaa waxaa uu intaa kudaray in sidoo kale kaluumaysatada ay kaniyad jabeen soosarida kalunka sababo laxariira suuqla aan kajira magalad hobyo oo aan laga gadan in tabada kalunak ay soosaraan kalumaysatada. Hadalkan kazoo jeeray wasarada kalumaysiga doowlad goboledka gal-mudug oo ah in ay furayan dada magalada hobyo ayaan la ogeen sida ay usuuro gali karto ayadoona dhowr jeer uu mamulku kadhawajyey in ay furayan. umaysatada ay kaniyad jabeen soosarida kalunka sababo laxariira suuqla aan kajira magalad hobyo oo aan laga gadan in tabada kalunak ay soosaraan kalumaysatada. Hadalkan kazoo jeeray wasarada kalumaysiga doowlad goboledka gal-mudug oo ah in ay furayan dada magalada hobyo ayaan la ogeen sida ay usuuro gali karto ayadoona dhowr jeer uu mamulku kadhawajyey in ay furayan.

Xiisado dagaal oo u dhaxeeya Ciidamada Puntland iyo Ciidamada Maamulka Raascaseyr ayaa ka jirta degmada Caluula ee gobolka Bari, Xiisadaani dagaal ee laga dareemayo degmada Caluula ayaa waxaa ay ka dambeysay kadib markii Ciidamada Puntland maalmihii u dambeeay ay weerarro isdabajoog ah ku qaadeen degmadaasi taasi oo sababtay in Maamulka Raasacaseyr uu isdifaaco islamarkaana Dagaal adag uu la galo Maleeshiyaadkii Puntland ee soo weeraray Deegaannadooda. . Saciid Yuusuf f Diiriye oo ka mid ah Mas’uuliyiinta Maamulka Raasacaseyr ee degmada Caluula ayaa waxaa uu sheegay inay inay ka madaxbanaanyihiin Maamulkaasi, isagoo carabka ku dhuftay inay diyaar u yihiin duulaan kasta oo kaga yimaada dhinaca Puntland in ay iska difaacaan. Wixii ka dambeeyay markii degmada Caluula ee gobolka Bari looga dhawaaqay Maamulka Raascaseyr ayaa waxaa jiray Xiisdaha dagaal ee u dhaxeeya Ciidamada Puntland iyo Ciidamada Maamulka Raascaseyr, waxaana Mas’uuliyiinta Maamulka Raascaseyr ay sheegeen in xiisaddaani ay sabab u yihiin markii sida ay sheegeen xubno ka tirsan Maamulkoodu Puntland ay ku xirtay Magayalada Boosaaso ee Xarunta gobolka Bari. HILAAC

CALUULA:- Wararka naga soo gaaraya Degmada Caluula ee Gobolka Bari ayaa sheegaya in halkaas ay kataagan tahay Xiisado dagaal oo udhaxeeya Maamulada puntland iyo Raascaseyr. Xiisadan dagaal ayaa Timid kadib Markii ay Magaalada Caluula ay kudhawaadeen Ciidamada Puntland isla markaana ay iyagana dhaq dhaqaaqyo dagaal ay bilaabeen Ciidamada Raas Caseyr. Saciid Yuuf Diiriye oo ka mid ah Mas’uuliyiinta Maamulka Raasacaseer ee degmada Caluula ayaa Sheegay in Ciidamada Maamulka Raascaseyr aysan u adkaysan doonin dhibaatooyin uu sheegay in ay kuhayaan Ciidamada Puntland. Waxaa uu Tilmaamay in ay ka go’een Maamulka Puntland kadib Markii ay ka waayeen xaqii ay lahaayeen haatana ay diyaar uyihiin in ay dhulkooda difaacdaan. Maamulka Puntland ayaa horay wacad ugu maray in aysan jirin karin cid kala goysa Dhamaan Deegaanada Maamulkooda. WARQAAD.COM

Ciidamada Dowlada oo Deegaano hor leh Shabaab kala wareegay. WARQAAD.COM Ciidamada Dowlada KMG Soomaaliya oo kaashanaya Amisom ayaa maanta lawareegay gacan kuhaynta Meelo ay Shabaab horay uga talin jireen. Dagaalka ayaa waxaa uu daba socday Dagaalo xoogan oo ay Xalay Shabaab ku qaadeen Saldhigyada Amisom iyo Dowlada ee Wasaaradii Gaashaandhiga kadibna waxaa saakay qarxay Dagaal kale oo ay galeen Guutooyinka 4aad iyo 3aad ee Ciidamada Xooga dalka, kaasoo ay kala hogaaminayeen Col. Goobaanle iyo Cagey. Meelaha Shabaab lagala wareegay ayaa waxaa kamid ah Xaruntii Shiirkole, Guryihii Saraakiisha iyo saraakiil xigeenada iyo Xeradii Tolmada iyo Harqaanka. Abaanduulaha Ciidamada Qalabka sida Gen.C/Kariin Dhegabadan oo shir jaraa’id ku qabtay Guryihii Saraakiisha ayaa u mahadceliyay Saraakiisha kala ah Taliyaha Guuttada 3-aad C/llaahi Cageey iyo Taliyaha guuttada 4-aad Goobaanle oo ahaa Saraakiishii hoggaamineeysay howlgalkaasi. Waxaa uu sheegay in uu Dagaalku soconayo inta Shabaab laga saarayo qeybaha kala Duwan ee Magaalada Muqdisho.

TFG is doing well!

Some people just love bickering for the sake of it ... others, not so much;)

lol I think its more your message to pass;)

I'm just the messenger sxb...