Things are tense in Birmingham tonight. The BBC was just reporting that there may be more unrest as some [the Asian/Pakistani community] may look for revenge. The BBC referred specifically to racial clashes, which are not unheard of in Birmingham.

Out of all places, they choose to loot Poundland. SMH. ROFL

^ London'r famous red Double decker buses.

^ London'r famous red Double decker buses.

Unrest reported in the city of fliverpool. a police station set ablaze in birmingham. unrest reported in manchester. a. railway station in birmingham is ablaze. this is no longer restricted to london.

"In Hackney, with the street thick with smoke, looters smashed their way into a local shop, stealing whisky and beer. One had even grabbed a packet of cornflakes. Another man ran away laughing while carrying four bottles of whisky." ""Tottenham is a deprived area. Unemployment is very, very high ... they are frustrated," said Uzodinma Wigwe, 49, who was made redundant from his job as a cleaner recently." "It was needless, opportunistic theft and violence, nothing more, nothing less. It is completely unacceptable," said Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. "In Birmingham, locals are also being warned to stay indoors as a fresh wave of violence moves across the city, with shops being looted and destroyed."

lol just watched footage on BBC of looting in Birmingham. There is a standoff in the city centre with 200-300 people looting all the stores. There is looting in Woolwich now. I forsee a nationwide free for all lol. ..... Looting is reported in the city of Leeds (north England).

Looting has been reported in Birmingham city centre. The second city of the U.K; population 2mil.

The riots have spread to different areas of london. lewisham, hackney,oxford circus, peckham, islington.

Alderman;738541 wrote: Children still need to be fed, clothed and educated. And one's ability to do this depends purely on the number of children one has? There might be a marginal benefit in having fewer children [if you are already relatively well off] but you are overstating the likely impact. Technically speaking, children are affected by poverty but they are not the cause of it; thus there is no guarantee that you will be wealthier by having fewer children and nor is there a guarantee that you will reduce the affects of poverty [let alone the causes of poverty]. In other words (1) by reducing the population you may increase GDP per capita but overall GDP remains the same and (2) by reducing the population you might actually reduce GDP (lower productive capacity, fewer consumers etc.) and hence GDP per capita.

Poor people with large families are not poor because they have large families but they have large families because they are poor. If you are poor and have few children, you are more likely to remain poor [particularly in old age] and you may still lose your few children. Furthermore, if you are poor, you are less likely to have access to birth-control. You see, children are only an economic burden up untill the age of ~6 after which they are seen as an asset in two ways. (1) Children will work i.e. tend the animals, beg etc. and thus provide livelihoods for the family more than the parents alone would be able to provide. (2) In old age, those children that do survive, and the idea of having many children is that at the least some will survive, will provide for and care for the parents as there are no social security systems to fall back on. Take a typical nomadic Somali family for example. without many children to look after your livestock, are you more or less able to rear and grow your livestock? It is a known fact and this has been proven by statistics worldwide, that as people become more affluent, they have less children.

However, people, in order to form a country need some sort of consensus i.e. something on which the agree and share; this then forms the cornerstone or building block of whatever they choose to build. Something that I have recently observed, and perhaps it may have been obvious to some, is that most powerful countries, and this is open to debate, have their own 'way', 'view', 'ideals'. Though these are difficult to definde, obvious examples may include liberal democratic ideals in the west or [what I call] the chinise pride and nationalism. Another question this thought raises is, do Somalis have a set of Ideals ? If this is Islam then is it becuase Somalis do not abide by it correctly ? Is it a coincidence that the more successful countries in the world have a set of ideals which they strictly adhere to and seek to propogate?

CONTINUED - Part 2 We proceeded to the check out as were assured that the flight would depart as originally planned and full of renewed anticipation we waited near the the boarding gates. As we sat and waited, the supposed check-in time passed. Luckily a representative of Jubba Airways showed up and I, and many others, flocking one after the other, as Somalis do, questioned him about what was happening, with our usual noise, commotion, raised voices and plentiful hand gestures. As he informed us that the check-in time would be delayed, and we would just have to wait, we returned to our seats. As the flight departuretime also passed people started to become restless. All in all, we waited from midnight to ~4 p.m the following [same] day. It was no comfort to be told that the reason the flight was delayed was because there were technical problems witht he plane on which we would be flying and that instead of Berbera, our destination was to be Djibouti. Having relentlessly complained to the managerial staff of the Airport/terminal, the management had become as frustrated with the company as we had; to the extent that by the time the company had managed to get the plane ready for takeoff, the management was not willing [or unable] to provide a crew as well as time and a runway to facilitate the departure of the flight. Eventually, many, many hours after we were scheduled to depart, our plane took off from the runway and we were finally underway. .... My first taste of the Somali peninsula was when we touched down in Djibouti and boy was it hot. It was certainly 37-40+ degrees. When the plane landed and the aircon was switched off, we felt the real impact of the heat. It was like being in a sauna and everyone, desperate for some relief, used anything they could to cool themselves. As we stepped outside the plane, relentless and searingly hot winds, worse than those in Dubai, welcomed us to Djibouti. We proceeded to a small building in front of us and we climbed some stairs to get to a narrow foyer and two rooms leading off it - one being a small shop and the other some sort of attempt at passport control. The 170+ people on the plane quickly filled the space and queued outside the room to have their passport checked and their fingerprints taken. As we waited in the waiting area we were informed that the follwing plane would take us, surprisingly, to Hargeisa. Our original destination was Berbera where all connecting flights [to Boosaaso, Galkacayo, Mogadishu] depart from. Suddely there was a flurry of activity as the waiting people gathered that the plane outside, by the looks of it a much smaller propeller plane, was the one taking us to what would be [unwillingly] our final destination, they rushed towards the exit and an elderly lady fell and was trampled over. We boarded the plane and we were met again by the searing heat. The state of this 'plane' was terrible. The seats and hand-luggage 'compartments' were broken and would fall back on you, there were no seat betls, the material of the seats was ripped, dirt and trash had collected inside the plane to the extent that the smell was so unbearable that one was forced to hold one's nose. The smell itself was also so peculiar and familliar that the notion that this plane was also used to transport livestock quickly became accepted. At this point the feeling of being inside a sauna had returned and this was confirmed by the crying and screaming children, unable to bear the heat, and the loud complaints of their worried mothers. Thank god the flight to Hargeisa would take only 30-45 min. When we reached Hargeisa there was relief as the deafning noise, the crying and screaming of children and the heat inside had far outreached tolerable levels, Also, I had expected this outdated russian piece of engineering which had already far outlived its use-by date to fall out the sky at some point during the flight. As people queued in the gangway of the plane, the mothers pleaded, some in tears, to no avail, they be let off first as their children could not bear it. As soon as I stepped outside the plane I was met by a delightfully cool breeze of wind which instantaniously made the entire journey worthwhile. Walking towards the building of the 'airport', I basked in the cool breeze of Hargeisa and enjoyed every step. What pleasant and welcoming weather that city has. After having my Passpport checked, I continued to a sideroom to collent my baggage. There was only one problem: the bags had been left behind in DJIBOUTI as the 'plane' could not carry all of the passengers as well as the luggage. At this point I was too tired to even be angry and I accepted that that is the way things are done here. I did feel sorry for those catching the connecting flights to Boosaaso and Galkacayo [via Berbera of-course] in another of those propellor planes. As the airport staff and other fought each-other off to carry my luggage, in return of a 'tip' of-course, I decided that it would be a hotel for tonight. It would be another two days before I received my luggage.

SomaliNationalist;737702 wrote: A Zionist is just a person who supports the jeweish peoples rigth to a homeland, you don't have to be a jew in order to be a Zionist. I know what a zionist is sxb and it is exactly because I know what it is that I do not support, nor warm to the support of it. The thing is, a zionist doesn't just "support the jeweish peoples rigth to a homeland"; in the essence, a zionist supports something far less benevolent. What I do support, however, is the Palestinian peoples right to a homeland; one need not be a palestinian to support their right not to have their homeland taken away from them. SomaliNationalist;737702 wrote: You asked why will they help us: Somalia has large reserves of proven oil and natural gas , these are important natural resources which Israel can not get from its Arab enemies, our country is located geographically so that isreali military bases can be built in Somalia and attack Iran or the Arab countries . You should always be 1 step ahead when working in the interests of Somalia. There are plenty of non-Arab countries with "large reserves of proven oil and natural gas" -of these countries, and that is if Somalia is counted amoungst them, Somalia is probably the least able and likely to benefit from such resources. Where you go wrong in your little 'plan', is to try and do the thinking and planning for the Israelis. The thing is, Israel has already ensured that it and its allies have large military bases in many places [israel, Djibouti, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq], including Arab countries, from where it could attack any middle-eastern country should the need arise; again Somalia is probably the least able and likely to benefit from this. Perhaps your 'thinking 1 step ahead' is many decades, too little too late.

Your a zionist eh. What a silly thing to say. I had a really good laugh at you. SomaliNationalist;737587 wrote: Israel can help Somalia develop our farm areas in the southern somalia to an agricultural paradise, Israel can help Somalia to build a strong military and share their knowledge in all areas with the Somali people loool and they would do that because ? Let me remind you they owe you nothing, nada, niks, eber, waxba. Talk about a dependency culture.

Ah... the blame game. Blame anyone BUT Somalis, of course.

Wali ma is rifaysaan SMH.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad (the disparity between Somalis).

Aaliyyah, that's true. I presume its much more of a trial by error method. Let me add another dimension to this question. Aaliya I take it you live in a city with many Somalis. but what about those Somalis who don't live anywhere near other Somalis ? Work and School are out the picture then lol. I would say uni environment is best.

This drought has been a long time going. I'm perplexed that some [somalis] are becoming aware of it only now. I heard of people dying of starvation and thirst a year prior to the start of recent high-profile media coverage. I'm sorry but many of these drought related threads seem at the least months and at the most years too late. As for what one can do. What is really needed, besides emergency humanitarian assistance, is sustainable management of recurring drought as well as proper management and planning of natural resources. I will also add that the reason the effects ofandthe responses tothe drought is worst in the conflict affected areas is not by chance. This is part of a sequence of interrelated long term problems which if not caused by, are exacerbated by conflict and lawlessness (as in this case).

They certainly have a role to play in the police/military.

Facebook is the new primary hunting ground/tool for both sides... hence why some people expend [what must be] a lot of time and effort to provide every little detail of their lives on their profiles and wall and pictures etc.

EXAMPLE Black Mamba Boy - Nadifa Mohamed In this debut novel, Nadifa Mohamed takes as her source material her father's childhood journey across Africa, which begins in the Yemeni port city of Aden where ten-year-old Jama loses his mother, his only emotional mooring in the world, and embarks on a great Odyssean voyage northwards, to find his absent father. After his mother dies, Jama, bereft, hungry and alone in the great, troubled African continent of the 1930s, seething with its twin terrors of poverty and war, sets out to find his father - an inveterate dreamer - who abandoned him in early childhood. The journey, which sees Jama buffeted by the terrifying demographics of famine, internecine conflict, and Mussolini's army - a cruel, occupying master - drives him into the heart of Eritrea where his father is rumoured to be. This country becomes the locus of all the love he has lost and may find, and only a child's boundless hope keeps him from losing heart. The endeavour appears unending, Herculean, at times, yet Jama persists. "How far is it from here to this Kano?" he asks a fellow traveller in the midst of the trek. "Three years walk" is the sobering reply. The journey ends in disappointment, yet Jama is undefeated. His rite-of-passage is the lesson he learns in how to be a father in a way his own failed to be. On a grander scale, his lone walk through African comes to represent what Mohamed calls the "hunger for a homeland". My comments I have not comments as this just an example. Sounds like an interesting read.

To revive this thread. I thought about starting a thread in which SOLers could share the books they have read or are reading. After a quick search I found three threads related to the search terms I used ('book club'); one from 2003, one from 2006 and the most recent which is this one. I must say, good on Duke for taking the initiative and starting this thread. Having browsed the various pages of this thread, we need a more uniform way of sharing information about a book. So, I propose the following: 1) Post the title and author of a book OR cover. 2) Post a short synopsis of what the book is a about (can be in your own words or some else's) - be sure not to reveal too much of the story line though. 3) Tell us what you thought of it and or any other comments. Mahadsanid. --- NOTES: Posting just the title or cover of a book does not suffice. Be not afraid of posting about books that you have read or are reading, writting in a language other than English.

^ + 1. And there I was puzzled as to who the heck mama sould was lol.