@5 - Thanks. But what I find annoying is that you obviously only just read this thread and it's clear you haven't even looked at recent entries. I haven't been rejected (in fact, they have made it public to family and friends they've accepted me), and I have been embraced. Annoying? Self confident? And...? While we're at criticising one another, while I have nothing against you as I don't know you (nor do you know me) I find you to be annoying, holier than thou, quick to judge (a book by it's cover: being my online handle, that is.) and a little daft, based on what your post has made public to all of us. You're welcome.

Sorry about not being around so much. I've barely seen a computer lately, it seems like. Haha. JazakhAllahu kheyran for all of the advice, and no stress about all of the Somali in thread (even if I do have no idea what's being said 90 perce...Well, all of the time. ) I'm sure I'll pick it up inshaAllah. Some very 'real world' and 'heavy' matters are being discussed with the sisters Dad lately, which is good. I mean, he's definitely listening to everything I have to say, and putting forth his two cents. The mutual dialogue going on here is very beneficial alhamdulillah. Sure, we had the whole rocky road before we met, but now (not sure if I've said this earlier) the family have really made me feel as though I fit in, with out any issues at all. Huge progress is being made, and I've been spending a lot of time with the sister's father (honestly, as much as possible.) and we're getting along famously, from what I can tell. Alhamdulillah. Thanks everyone. Hopefully inshaAllah soon I'll be back in business and spamming these forums like there's no tomorrow.

I don't want to be Somali... I'm happy with who I am.

^ What?

^ Whattt???

Pucca, I think you need to reread this thread. You've missed/ignored a lot. You've also brought up a post from before the apology, post-apology and made some very clear errors in comprehending it (I didn't call anyone a terrible person, for starters). I have nothig against anyone here, just to make that clear. And I hope no one here has anything against me. There have been some very strong words thrown from either side. Can we please just say khalas and move on? The update now is, despite things that were said before, there's been a lot of acceptance on both sides between me and this whole family. The sister and I couldn't ask for things to be going any better. Alhamdulillah. It was all just fear from their side (and mine). I guess her parents, and myself let our heads spin a bit out of control for a while there just before our encouter. But, honestly, I love them to death now, they've been nothing but great to me ever since mashaAllah. Her father and I have really began a great friendship.

Parents met me. They like me. Khalas, it just took meeting once. I ignored all negative replies. They don't matter.

Me and your sister? What do you mean? All Muslims are brothers and sisters. I'm your brother. Like it or lump it, you're stuck with it.

I apologise from my side, as I mentioned at the start I did intend to stay respectful. I do feel respect is a two way street though.

Jacpher;703782 wrote: CHE: He's gonna accuse you of making takfeer statement if you say 'convert' instead of 'revert'. Playing with English words. Look my friend. I didn't ask you to apologize but I asked you to get real or go away. What you asked us is not 'authentic Islamic position' at all. It's an opinion and you got it however positive or negative. We went beyond that and told you you embracing Islam is not guarantee license to marry Somali girl. So basically you worded my posts as convenient for your position? Fair enough, I think? I never said it was a guarenteed license. I embraced Islam many years before even considering marriage as an option. I'm ready, this sister's ready, we're Muslim, we both wish to get married to one another. In accordance to our deen, there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's a good thing for both of us. So where is any kind of issue here? Besides that of nationalism, racism or cultural toying? You say 'get real' to my view, well I not only say 'get real' to yours, but also 'wake up'. I didn't accuse you of takfeer for saying convert either, I don't mind either way. Not fussed at all. You called me an 'imposter convert'. That is where the warning to be careful of making takfeer on someone came from, why must you twist things like that? I mean, if anyone is playing with words here, by omission at least, it's you. Go back and read it. Everyone can see what you wrote.

Che -Guevara;703780 wrote: Are you saying your deen is the ONLY right way? By way, since you are following the deen to the letter, I don't think a Muslim should react like you did! How did I react? By responding? Whoops? When did I claim to follow the deen to the letter? I'd like to say so, but I never did. That's not my place to assess, I try and would love to say I do but of course I cannot. But no matter how good we are there's always room for improvement. I'm saying THE Deen is the only right way. Correct.

Che -Guevara;703775 wrote: Say Bismillah, calm down and I still recommend you to Nur! Oh, I am going to Nur inshaAllah. JazakhAllahu kheyr.

I'm fully decisive. How many more assumptions do you need to make? The fact that I posted this thread should go to show I'm fully decisive and if the family were a scapegoat, I would have said 'see ya later' already, I also would not have spoken to a Sheikh about the issue. Still skipping posts? Over zealous converts, 'stickler for the religion'. Am I expected to apologise that my deen is my way of life, all of a sudden? Just, wow. Name calling? I was called an imposter...I don't remember calling Jacpher anything, though I do remember writing a summary on his attitude, based on what he's shown us and never denied... Oh, he also called me a 'drama queen'.

Jacpher;703771 wrote: The more you fuss and moan about this girl and Somalis, the more I tend you agree with Ngonge. Go away you imposter. A real convert won't be such a drama queen. Go away imposter. And for the last time, stop telling us you could marry this girl in accordance with the deen without her parents acceptance. I apologise (Well, actually I don't.) for posting the authentic Islamic position. It clearly offends you. Don't like what I have to say, don't read it. Simpler that it sounds, really. Drama queen? How? Looking for advice? Alright, I'll accept that? Imposter? Pretty comical! You essentially make takfeer in your post, and call me an imposter ('convert') Muslim. AstaghfiruAllah. The irony is absolutely delicious. (That is, you calling me an imposted but outwardly, actively and seemingly proudly going against Islamic teachings, that is.) Funny kid. Again, still eagerly awaiting your daleel. As Muslims, authenticity in positions is a fardh, just some advice.

Don't be a stickler for religion? Well, that pretty much sums up your attitude towards the deen and explains your utter disreagrd to all that Islam teaches us on this issue. Why are you even responding to this thread? Culture first, deen somewhere after that. It was obvious from the second you started posting. May Allah guide you and us all. Pissed by you? I'm not pissed by anyone here, I'm pissed at what's been written by people who claim to be Muslim brothers and sisters, actively supporting contempoary PROBLEMS in the Muslim world. I can tell you now, this sister has told me straight out she has little interest in culture, and that's good. She is Muslim first alhamdulillah. I won't isolate her from the halal, but will from the haraam as I expect her to for me. Like practising people inshaAllah. I have asked someone with authority, just yesterday. Who said "AstaghfiruAllah" in response to attitudes on this forum I told him of. That was his first word, though people have indeed disputed that there has to be an Islamic reason for rejection, amongst Muslims. You skipped many posts? I got from you, and many others, the second I realised you have no clue what you are talking about. I'm not as ****** as many here seem to think.

Che -Guevara;703767 wrote: ^I think you came to the wrong place? I think you're a bit late to the party... Post #37: "So many ridiculous replies, from people who seemingly know nothing about human relations...Very sad state of affairs indeed. Have fun sucking at life you guys, I'm logging out. I was looking for intelligent life on the internet. But how underwhelming this experience was... " Post #52: "I probably should have known better than to try and participate in a cultural forum to begin with, when looking for practical religious advice." Surely there's a Spam/General Chat thread somewhere for your banter, Che (among others). Why polute this one? From memory there's been two posters who actually gave decent answers, with care for the Deen. Even if their answers were no longer than two sentences.

No, that was for this forum purely so people know what to expect from me. I love how you've just given up on relevant dialogue here. Really. Guys, five pages later and I'm still waiting for even an iota of daleel. At this point I'll even partially willing to accept weak daleel...I guess daleel doesn't matter when you're speaking from a totally secular and cultural view point, though.

Malika;703724 wrote: Subhanallah, some of the responses here are just down right wrong - absolutely shocking! So much anger in people, its blinding their logic. Subhanallah. May Allah protect you, sister. Ameen. These people need some serious naseeha elbow grease. Glad to see a voice of reason here, though.

Pucca;703657 wrote: i get a headache every time i hear the old "parents say no cuz im a convert"...honestly, why dont converts marry converts? aint there a community of them out there? I mean its all good and mashallah that they've accepted islam but lets be honest, you don't a person...you marry a family. And they dont like you, ka soco...plenty of women out there. I'm not anti converts, but all these men who convert and suddenly think they can have any practicing since birth sister is just bloody annoying. dude, go build your iman and after YEARS of being a muslim....then maybe you can be accepted. lakiin a muslim for a month and i want to get married? sheeko...start fasting baan ku iri. ps. you should have asked the father permission to speak to his daughter first...woulda saved you plenty of time. 1. I have been Muslim for YEARS. Several years. Convert does not mean 'New Muslim'. First assumption. 2. Who on Earth are you to judge my Emaan? 3. I have nothing against marrying a convert, but why keep looking when I've found someone I'm interested in mutually? And there's zero reason for the whole thing not to go ahead, speaking from a reasonable and Islamic perspective. (Please guys, don't be annoyed by this.) 4. A Muslim is a Muslim. Muslim first, nationality/culture wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy later, if at all. Nationalism is haraam, some people really need to get their priorities straight. I'm your brother, not your "brother" in Islam. Respect that, or duct tape your mouth from fear of Allah. Simple. 5. What's done, is done. And why are you assuming it was me to approach her?* 6. I have never expected 'Oohs' or 'Aahs' at being a convert, in fact, when people think it's right to give me "MashaAllah! MashaAllah!" and act like I'm so good, I feel sick to my stomach. I hate such attention. But again, you assume I'm some kind of egomaniac...I guess any non-Somali intent on in 'taking a beautiful Somali woman' (refer to Jacphers post on page one) must be a terrible person. 7. I don't feel I can have 'any born Muslim girl', but convert/born Muslim is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, this sister wants to marry me. This is a fact, and I want to marry her as well. 8. I'm not *****ing and moaning about being a convert no one wants, even if I was told recently by someone very respected in the community to expect such (he also called attitudes like those rampant on this forum 'diseases of the heart', and he's right. Go back and read what you guys have written.) 9. I worry for the Ummah, a lot. I hope none of you profess any kind of Islamic expertise. 10. Converts have our own community? Really? So it's okay for this kind of segregation in the Muslim community? Instead of sitting here posting nonsense, I do believe it'd benefit you to read ONE book, go to ONE class, or talk to ONE Sheikh in regards to this topic. Last time I checked, the Muslim Ummah was meant to be a united Ummah. No wonder we're in such disarray right now. Your opinion is the problem, sending us further from the solution. *It seems like all anyone on this forum has assumed everything about the story, and even at times ignored anything I've said before responding. Now, please, can someone with basic skills in comprehention read this thread? It'd be a Godsend. Honestly would be.

I came back just to let you know of what I was told by a Sheikh I saw today, guys...Then I see that I lack respect, I'm weak blah blah blah. Whatever. I have no idea what about choosing deen over culture has made you all so bitter. Honestly. When I mentioned the opinions posted here (and quoted, many posts), he immediately (FIRST thing he said was) "AstaghfiruAllah". I hope that is a good indication for some you guys inshaAllah. He told me, if the sister and I both wish to get married (which we both do) and there is no reason in the sharia for it to not go ahead, then don't listen to such cultural nonsense. Also, that a Muslim family have no say unless there is an Islamic reason. What the sister and I knew all along, yet the more cultural among us here (and only here on this forum) wanted to dispute. So, no, I can wear my cool red shoes all I wish, thank you very much. If this sister and I were weak, we'd blindly nod along. But as I said before, neither of us are the kind of roll over and die, and alhamdulillah neither of us turn the other cheek when culture is diseasing our deen. That's just how it is. I probably should have known better than to try and participate in a cultural forum to begin with, when looking for practical religious advice. So I do apologise for disturbing you guys, I guess I came here to learn from respect I do have for her family (whether you guys wish to see that or not, I couldn't give a rats ***. As far as I'm concerned, this is the internet and everyone on it, including me, is just some random creeper.) Have fun living under your rock, children. But do know, there is a world outside. And it's waiting for you. Just so you know it's there.

So many ridiculous replies, from people who seemingly know nothing about human relations...Very sad state of affairs indeed. Have fun sucking at life you guys, I'm logging out. I was looking for intelligent life on the internet. But how underwhelming this experience was...

You people will not be seeing a photo of me. Like, cha, I know I'm clearly hot as. But you will all have to keep imagining what I look like behind the screen.

Aww, thanks for saying you're sure they're a credit for raising me. JazakAllah kheir. And you're right, they have no need for concern. Not only will they have a Muslimah mother, but a Muslim father. That's our issue with it all. We feel they're being very unrealistic towards the whole thing. Their problem is based on nothing and makes no sense in any scenario...

Her family, they seem very religious. Their concern is not my culture in the least - it's that my family are not Muslims and they fear my family leading us and our children, and their family astray. They don't know anything about my family, they've never met them nor heard a thing about them. They are assuming what my family are like, and to me as a very accepted and respected Muslim in this family, I find what they say about my family nothing other than comic gold. We are trying our hardest, and communicating frequently with ideas and also getting advice from people we know in the community. The general answer seems to be for after the meeting and inevitable rejection, to both go and see a Sheikh and get him to talk to the parents. So, we plan to. May Allah reward you for your sincere advice, sister. Ameen. Again, I don't find the family prejudiced and I don't feel I've been rejected. I mean, the sister and I are down, but not out. We've said a million times to each other, and others that we're not going to just roll over and die when what we want is halal, and actually very good for us. We are praying hard, for guidance and our goals. Alhamdulillah.

Wa alaykum salam. Thank you for the welcome, sister. Southern Europe. Think Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece. This is me being general, but it's along there somewhere.