^^ Which one do you think would deserve to be helped? I'd say both. Whilst some of us lesser degree of eeman than others, it doesnt mean that they should be ignored or not helped.

My hearts bleeds! more deserving my behind.

I see nothing. So what is your excuse for posting nothing?

Sheh That is good..no? I would have liked to stay at the masjid for qiyaam last night, but work commitments ayaa ii saamixi waayey. Last night, Goodge Street masjid, Sh Khalid Yassin was there after taraweeh for lecture. Another thing that i missed. So anyone has any idea when Laylatul Qadr was? or maybe it could be the 29th? The prophet (pbuh) provided us some signs of its occurrence. Allah (swt) describes the night as “..peace until the rise of the morn.” [97:5] In various sayings, the Prophet (pbuh) described the night as serene, tranquil, and peaceful. The sun at sunrise would appear reddish and without its normal blazing and sharp rays. The Prophet (pbuh) added that “the angel of earth on that night of Qadr will be more numerous than all the pebbles of the earth.”

Lily you reminded me of the night I went to taraweeh with my mom and the prayers was very long, so I got a chair next to mom for me to sit She said "take your chair elsewhere, you dont want people to see how fitter I am compared to you. Dont embarrass yourself like that!" lool I told her 'i dont care, these people should be aware that I got a bad back and besides, shouldnt they concentrate on their prayers rather than watching us? Anyhow She put my chair the row infront of her

loooooooool Funniest thing i have read. Smart bloke and dumb girl. She should have offered a better deal that has staying power than looks.

A message to Ozbus passengers There's 'mutiny' on the London to Sydney bus. Chin up, says Peter Moore, that's what makes overland travel one of the world's great adventures. October 9, 2007 11:15 AM Pipe dream ... Peter Moore makes the most of some time in a Tehran tea shop. Photograph: Peter Moore Having travelled independently from London to Sydney back in the 90s and chronicled my adventures in the book The Wrong Way Home, I have been following the OzBus overland odyssey with great interest. When I read here on Guardian Unlimited that things were allegedly going a bit wonky in Iran I felt massive relief for Mark Creasey, the guy who organised the trip. After a couple of weeks of hot-air ballooning over Europe and getting backs scrubbed in Turkish baths in Istanbul, his customers have finally got something to complain about. His passengers probably don't agree. The reports of a 'mutiny' suggest that they think that they shelled out £3,750 to avoid crap food, itinerary changes and a bus that breaks down every second day. But they'd be wrong. That's exactly what they should have hoped for when they handed over their hard-earned cash. Let's face it. If it was easy to drive from London to Sydney we'd be all doing it. We'd be putting the Vauxhall Zafira on the Eurostar and setting off east to visit Uncle Brian in Wagga Wagga, allowing an extra day in case the traffic is bad in New Delhi. But we're not. The roads are atrocious. The food can be worse. And the situation on borders is as hard to read as Gordon Brown's thinking on announcing an election date. That's what makes it one of the world's great adventures. Reliable is boring. Safe is the easy option. When the Ozbusers roll into Sydney mid-December they'll feel a real sense of achievement - even if it is just for putting up with the guy who snores like a jet fighter for three months. OK, it's unfortunate that they are stuck in Tehran. Just about anywhere else in Iran would have been more interesting. The only tourist site, as such, is the former US embassy, now rebranded as the US Den of Espionage, and Ayatollah Khomeini's final resting place on the southern outskirts in a complex that cost US$2 billion to build. Although a quick walk around the cracked pavements of the city reveals all kinds of charms, not least the roadside hawkers selling the best falafel rolls you've ever tasted. My advice to the Ozbusers, indeed to anyone trundling along the road less travelled, is to embrace the things that go wrong. These are the moments that will define your trip and stay with you for the rest of your life. I can't remember a single thing about a bus journey I took through southern Iran other than it was comfortable and hassle-free. But I remember the overnight journey from the border through the Baluchistan desert as if I'd just staggered off the bus, hot and dazed, yesterday. An unusual band of locals had encamped on my designated seat and when they were forced to vacate it, they got their kid to shit on it. I'm still dining out on that story over a decade later. guardian

Nomadique Sister, cheers for the 'awsomeness' I wanted to speak on behalf of mr me. You see..he becomes akward when he is around princesses. He doesnt hate you girl

Intel No I havent seen F nemo, however I just read this from Wiki. It really is cruel: Commercial caviar production normally needs stunning the fish (usually by clubbing its head) and extracting the ovaries; some commercial fish farmers are experimenting with surgically removing roe from living sturgeon, allowing the females to continue producing more roe during their lives. It is halaal though. Cultural Given its high price in the West, caviar is synonymous with luxury and wealth. In Russia and other Eastern European cultures, though still expensive, caviar is commonly served at holiday feasts, weddings, and other festive occasions. Sturgeon-derived caviar is generally not eaten by Jews who keep kosher, because sturgeon lacks scales and thus is not considered kosher; however, this does not apply to every roe-yielding fish species. In Islam all sea or river animals such as fish are lawful and halal which applies to the sturgeon as well as its caviar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caviar

Trust you to put downer on things!

Has anyone ever tasted caviar (eggs of fish)? I am intrigud by this as the rich and the famous eat this apparently.

The dua was the highlight for me. The longer the dua, the better, more chances acceptance.

Dabshid Some do have kids but there is creche at the masjid. For salatul layl, the kids are sleep and the husbands keep an eye on them i guess. What did you guys think about last nights' taraweeh? Last night was the khatam and beautiful dua followed.

Chicken in Somalia is soo rare, which explains your love for dooro lol! Here in the UK, the Carrebean folks love chicken. Did you know horse meat is delicious? No i havent eaten it, but I had chinese friend who ate anything in sight just to impress his dad. intel The kangaroo meat looks fab. Not sure if it halaal though!

Breajfast: Hot canjeero with beer and salad Lunch: baasto al dente with steak..banana, liin and mild besbaas Dinner:Cambuulo (one needs to be regular) with bariis or galey, with spot of macsaro and sugar Is muqmad kalaankal or oodkac?

Why do non-traditional meats taste like chicken? Everyone says that frogs, dogs etc all taste like chicken. Some do say that human meat also taste like chicken. Snake..does it have front teeth? if it has, it is not halaal

Is lizzard halaal?

Cheap and cheerful

^^ Too much info Ciid Mubaarak to all muslims everywhere. Adults buying clothes for eid..tut tut..Dont we outgrow of these? The last time i bought clothes for eid was donkey years ago.

By Tom Horgen, Star Tribune Last update: October 07, 2007 – 7:08 PM Mohammad Odeh cut up food for his 2-year-old son Sameer recently in the outdoor buffet tent at Big Marina Grill & Deli in Columbia Heights. Last year the restaurant was so busy during the month of Ramadan that the tent was erected in the parking lot this year to help meet demand. Dining spots come alive at night during Ramadan as Muslims break daylight fasts. As the sun faded behind the neon-pink horizon last Friday night, groups of men took turns kneeling on prayer rugs in the parking lot of the Big Marina Grill & Deli. Fellow Muslims, having already finished their sundown prayer for the holy month of Ramadan, grabbed any seat they could find in the Columbia Heights restaurant and its giant outdoor tent. The day's fast, from dawn until dusk, was over and everybody was ready to join the bustling buffet lines. During Ramadan, many restaurants that serve the Muslim community -- estimated to be 75,000 people in the metro area -- see their daytime business drop as their customers spend those hours fasting. But at sundown, the nightly rush to break the fast is enough to make this month the busiest of the year for many of these eateries. Last year at Big Marina, diners waited as long as two hours for a table. So when this year's Ramadan began on Sept. 13, owner Shaker Elsaied was ready, having erected a tent almost as big as the restaurant. "People started getting mad because they were waiting so long, so I said 'Oh no, I better think of something else,'" he said. An eating expedition Last weekend, Adam Soliman, a doctor from St. Cloud, came with his brother, Mahmoud, who flew in from Miami that day. Ramadan is known as a time to strengthen ties with family and friends. They filled up on lamb shank, stuffed quail and falafel. "He came all the way from Miami to have an eating expedition," Soliman said of his brother. "Seriously!" Mahmoud, who runs a hotel management company, said he prefers spending time celebrating Ramadan with his brother in the Twin Cities. "Here, we are Americans but we can still save our own traditions," he said. "For a while I questioned why he lives here, but when I see this community, I know why." On the menu Just down the Central Avenue strip from Big Marina is the popular Holy Land restaurant and market. Co-owner Majdi Wadi spent last Wednesday night walking about the packed house shaking hands and repeating the customary greeting "As-salamu alaikum" ("Peace be with you"). The dinner buffet was a hit. Serious repeat visitors had the option early on to buy a 30-meal discount card for $209. 'Dates are a must' While every Ramadan buffet is different, they all have one menu item in common: "Dates are a must," Wadi said. The prophet Mohammed is said to have broken his fast with dates, making them a Ramadan tradition. Wadi is planning to have his own outdoor tent next year, when Ramadan will start about 10 days earlier because it is based on the lunar cycle. "It will be warmer for customers," he said. He wants to import a colorful tent from the Middle East to re-create the Ramadan celebrations in that part of the world. Food, and education "We feel like it's not just our responsibility to serve food," Wadi said. "It's also our responsibility to educate Americans on who we are. Because all they hear about us is war and suicide bombers." Some of Holy Land's non-Muslim customers come out specifically to experience the traditions of the month, which will end later this week. "I knew they would be doing something special during Ramadan," said Ingrid Case, who came with her husband and 5-year-old son. "This is their normal food bumped up a notch." Lights out during the day While both Holy Land and Big Marina are open during the day, many Somali restaurants wait until evening to open. At International Corner, a popular Somali coffee shop near downtown Minneapolis, owner Saeed Nooh said he doesn't have any Somali customers during the day, except for the cab drivers who use his back room to pray. "But at night, the coffee shop will stay open until way past midnight," he said. "I try to go home by 1 a.m., but nobody wants to leave." At Hamdi, one of south Minneapolis' oldest Somali restaurants, tables were filled even on a rainy Tuesday night. "Sometimes we don't have enough tables for them," said assistant cook Burhaan Sahal. "But they still have their meals -- standing up." But even after a day of fasting, some Muslims don't necessarily stick with just Muslim-owned restaurants. A trio of young Somali women who were eating at Big Marina last Friday said they have spent a few nights at mainstream chains, such as Applebee's and TGI Fridays, during Ramadan. "But when you go to Applebee's, it doesn't feel like Ramadan," said Amina Asser, 22, as she looked around Marina that night. "This feels like Ramadan." Tom Horgen • 612-673-7909 Tom Horgen • thorgen@startribune.com http://www.startribune.com/456/story/1469945.html

Community needs Muslim foster homes By ROQAYA ESHMAWI, Staff Writer LOS ANGELES – Seven years ago, Humera Hameed and her husband decided they wanted to become foster parents. "We had heard about Muslim children who were taken away from their Muslim families and put into Christian homes where they had bad experiences," she said. "My husband and I were very touched by this. We thought about what would happen to our children if they were put through the same situation. It changed our outlook on foster parenting." Two years later, the family welcomed two children into their home, a 14-year-old Muslim boy and his 6-year-old Muslim sister. When the boy first came to live with them, they could tell he was bright and talented, but he wasn’t doing very well in school, Hameed said. "He really picked up his grades afterward," she said. "He was very talented in music, so we had him join music lessons at school, and we encouraged him as he practiced." The boy and his sister lived with Hameed’s family for a year before they were returned to their mother. "Whatever you do, you’re just a foster parent," Hameed said. "It’s what the system thinks is best for the children. At that point, it was decided that the mother was ready to have the children back, so they went back to her." Family Solutions, a nonprofit agency licensed by the state to certify foster parents, is currently searching for foster homes for several Muslim children. Also collaborating are New Star Family Center, UPLIFT Charitable Corporation and ACCESS California Services – nonprofit agencies that offer social services to the community. When children in the area are first taken out of their homes, they are placed in Orangewood, a temporary shelter, until a foster family can be found, said Tori Mohmand-Farhad, programs director for Family Solutions. "Depending on how long it takes to find them a home, they could be there for up to a month, which is the maximum allowed," she said, adding that the shelter welcomes children ranging from newborns to 18-year-olds. While Mohmand-Farhad said it is fortunate that not many Muslim children are removed from the care of their families, she added that it does happen a few times a year, and her agency currently doesn’t have Muslim foster families. "Unfortunately, the only time our community is able to come on board is when there’s a crisis," she said. "Right now, these kids are in the system, and we need to find homes for them. We went out to one of the masjids and found families who are interested and who will go through the process of becoming certified." Through ongoing recruitment, she said, she hopes more Muslim families will become certified. Foster parenting is when an individual is interested in providing stability for a child who has been removed from the care of his or her family due to a situation in which the biological parents are no longer able to care of the child. According to experts, this is many times due to abuse or neglect. When a child is taken out of the home, the first option is for relatives to care for them, Mohmand-Farhad said. In the case of Muslim children, if that’s not possible, the agency tries to place them with a Muslim family in the community. "But if no one steps forward, then the child is placed with whoever can take them," she said. "In foster care, no religion is supposed to be imposed on the children, but it’s still always nice to have your own religion or your own culture available to you." Shaikh Yassir Fazaga, imam and religious director at the Orange County Islamic Foundation in Mission Viejo, Calif., said the Muslim community is obliged to care for foster children. "This is a communal obligation," he said. "If enough individuals have done it, than the community as a whole fulfills the obligation. But if we don’t have enough foster parents, then as a community, we have to re-evaluate the situation." Fazaga finds the Muslim community responsible for providing care to foster children regardless of their religious beliefs or upbringing. "From an Islamic perspective, we definitely have to extend a helping hand to these children, whether they are Muslim or non-Muslim," he said. According to Family Solutions statistics, 50 percent of foster children will be reunited with their biological families after the parents have completed a court-mandated plan, while the other 50 percent become eligible for long-term foster care or adoption and are often adopted by their foster parents. The role of a foster parent or family is unique, Mohmand-Farhad said. "You give these children structure by letting them know you’ll be there, that they’ll have three meals a day, that they’ll have a bed to sleep in, and that they’ll wake up and see the same parents." While it can be emotionally or physically draining, she added, it is also rewarding and allows individuals to make a difference in someone else’s life. Hameed said she and her husband found foster parenting fulfilling. "We really enjoyed doing homework with the children and taking them to activities." There is a dire need to take care of Muslim children who have been neglected, she added. "There’s so much out there you can do. It’s very easy, too. Having another child won’t put that much extra work on your part." Fahima Sheren, coordinator at ACCESS, describes foster parenting as similar to adoption, "except that the child doesn’t become yours." The foster parenting process can be long-term or short-term, she said, adding that there have been families who have fostered a child for as little as a week while others have fostered a child until he or she turned 18. The county, which has custody of the children, decides if they are to return to their biological parents or if they should be taken away permanently, Sheren said. Certification for foster parenting takes, at most, six to eight weeks, Mohmand-Farhad said. It includes filling out paperwork, 30 hours of training, fingerprinting for background checks and taking First Aid/CPR classes. Interested individuals should have space available in their homes to care for the children, Mohmand-Farhad said. No more than two to three children can share a room, a bed must be available for each child, and children ages 5 or older cannot share a room with children of the opposite gender. Muslim foster families are often harder to find because the Muslim community is not as aware of foster care as mainstream America, experts say. "The understanding is not out there in the Muslim community," said Owaiz Dadabhoy, president of UPLIFT. "We need to put the information out there, let the community know there are Muslim children out there, and let people know that this is another way to help." He cited the recent case of two Muslim children being placed in a Christian home and taken by the foster parents to Christian services. The biological parents didn’t want their children in the Christian home, and approached their local imam and ACCESS, Dadabhoy said. "We also got involved, and we eventually found a couple of Muslim families who would like to help out with this," he said. Fazaga pointed out that Muslim children placed in a non-Muslim foster home will inevitably be subjected to morals and behaviors that may be accepted by the non-Muslim family but not by Muslims. "Islamically, these things may not be acceptable for the child. It impacts the Islamic identity of the child," he said. Elena Meloni, one of five founders of New Star Family Center, which addresses social issues in the Muslim community, has been a foster parent for seven years. "We cannot go to our community and talk about this without setting an example," she said. "So my husband and I decided that what we need to do is become foster parents and host children." Through her work, Meloni said she discovered actual cases where Muslim parents had neglected their children. "Initially, I was very upset because I thought the Department of Children and Family Services was out to get our kids – Muslim kids – and that all they wanted to do was break our families," she said. In cases of neglect that leave Muslim children in need of foster care, Meloni said the community needs to play an active role. "It’s hard to open up our homes to other children, but they are just children, and we have to do it," she said. "If we can’t save our own kids, how can we expect others to save our kids?" Mohmand-Farhad added that some Muslim families may be hesitant to become involved in foster care because they feel a level of risk when inviting an outside individual into their homes. "Once you become a certified family, you have another family member coming into the house, as well as social services checking in the child, or the child might have a mentor or an attorney who comes into the home," she said. "There are a lot of different people involved with the child, and people need to be willing to do that." While addressing temporary situations, Dadabhoy said UPLIFT also aims to create an infrastructure that will allow an organized and proper way of addressing long-term issues. "It shouldn’t be haphazard," he said. "The community should know where to go when a need arises." Dadabhoy said there should be a focus on certifying Muslim families for foster care as well as communicating with counties to ensure they will inform the appropriate agencies when Muslim children are in need of foster care. "We’ve already struck a relationship with the county of Los Angeles," he said, adding that when the county has a Muslim foster child, they contact New Star Family Center to try to place the child with a Muslim family. Meloni has also been in talks with Orange County. "They’ve finally realized that they need to partner with the faith communities," she said. "It has been overlooked for too long." Dadabhoy said the case of the two Muslim children placed in a Christian foster home was a jumping off point for the issue of foster care. "When we find out about a problem, we’ve got to resolve the problem, but we also have to build for the next case," he said. To do that, the agencies are collaborating to visit several masjids and host sessions to inform families about the issue. Dadabhoy has already circulated e-mails among the Muslim community regarding the two children placed in a Christian foster home and has received enormous response. "It goes to show that when there’s a crisis, people do come out. With whatever kind of support we need, people will volunteer their time, money and effort to help out," he said. "It’s just a matter of putting those issues out there and letting people respond." Meloni said she’s hoping the community will continue to participate and provide homes for foster children. "I feel very strongly that all of our kids should be in our homes," she said. "They don’t belong in any other homes." http://www.infocusnews.net/content/view/16942/135/

New Muslims Tell of Their Journey Discovering Truth Lulwa Shalhoub, Arab News Danya converted to Islam in Ramadan. Her journey to Islam is an interesting one and began when she was 18 and when she married a man, whom she met at work in Manila in the Philippines. The man later turned out to be an alcoholic. Her marriage was unhappy. Convinced that she was not meant to be happy, she started looking for happiness in other things. Born a Catholic, she began studying the Bible and became a Born Again Christian. While Catholics are obliged to practice Christianity from what priests understand from the Bible, Born Again Christians have the freedom to study the Bible themselves and act as they see fit. During that time, Danya’s sister married a Muslim man and embraced Islam. When Danya told her sister she had become a Born Again Christian, her sister replied sarcastically, “You still worship a creature; it’s useless!” It was then that Danya began praying to “God Almighty” to guide her to the straight path. Her husband’s attitude grew worse and he started to mock her prayers. “Depression, agony and deep sadness overwhelmed my life. Nothing made me happy except praying,” she said. Once the couple fought. Her husband left home and disappeared for two weeks. Feeling lonely, Danya applied for a job abroad to escape her problems. She was hesitant as she had no qualifications and could not work as a housekeeper because she did not have any training. It was then that she visited a hairdresser’s shop that was frequented by actresses. She asked the manager to let her work for free and be trained. After gaining some training, Danya applied for a job as a beautician in Saudi Arabia and underwent a test. She was the only one who passed. As she was preparing to leave for the Kingdom, her husband returned home and saw her happy. “He became jealous and mad at me. He said he would kill me. He took a knife and threatened me,” she said. While preparing her paperwork to come to the Kingdom, Danya had also undergone a medical test that showed she had breast cancer and had only six months to live. “I was happy to know my destination and was praying that God would guide me to the straight path. My employer liked my work and did not care about my health condition. In the end I came to Saudi Arabia in 1987,” she said. When she came here, she was faced with a different culture. There were no churches and no bibles. One of her Christian colleagues gave her a small bible. “My sister’s words were haunting me. I asked myself if I was worshipping a creature or the Creator,” said Danya. She used to read the Bible and asked God to help her understand it. She read that the Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) fasted and so she fasted as Christians do, abstaining from solid food. She wanted to pray as much she could before she died. One day her employer asked her, “Why don’t you become a Muslim?” Danya asked whether Muslims believe in Jesus. Her employer, not being able to understand English properly, said “No.” Danya’s Muslim Indonesian colleague also advised her to accept Islam. She refused and said that she would not change her religion and beliefs for anyone. Her brother in law also worked in Jeddah and so Danya asked him about Islam. He was kind and sent her a letter that explained details about what Muslims think of Jesus and the five prayers. She prayed five daily prayers before accepting Islam. A Christian colleague asked her to join an Islamic center. She attended four sessions on the recitation of the Holy Qur’an and comparative religion. Sometime later she became convinced that Islam was the truth and so went to Makkah. “I went to Makkah and saw the true meaning of equity, mercy and tranquility,” she said. She told her employer that she wanted to embrace Islam. They took her to a court in Ramadan and there she formally took the Shahada (a declaration that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger). Danya has lived longer than the six months she initially thought she would live and is currently undergoing treatment for her illness. Maria is another convert. Born in an Italian Catholic family, Maria initially wanted to become a Catholic nun. While studying at a theology college in Italy, she found contradictions in the new and old testaments. After studying for three years she quit and decided to travel to a country where she could find peace of mind. She did not have enough money to travel and so applied for a job as a maid and went to Jordan to work for a Muslim family, who did not tell her anything about Islam. “I felt guilty and traitorous to the church. I was of the conviction that God shows the true path to those who seek to correct themselves and prayed for that,” she said. Once I was cleaning the house, I found a book about monotheism and started reading it. “At that moment I realized that Allah Almighty has answered my prayer so quickly. Before that I didn’t know that monotheism was the basic creed of Islam. Nobody told me. So I kept reading and studying Islam,” she said. She used to listen to the Qur’an although she did not understand it. She said she loved the sound of the words. After a few days, Maria told her employer that she wanted to convert to Islam. She said the Shahada and after finishing her contract applied for work in the Kingdom so she could visit the two holy mosques. “I would like to advise every non-Muslim person to search for the truth themselves. They don’t need others to help them make up their minds, they can do this themselves through reading and learning,” she said. Dania, a homecare assistant helping diabetic people, was born in a religious Catholic family in the Philippines. However, her family used to pray five times a day. “My mother used to tell me that Jesus (peace be upon him) was only a prophet. He is neither God nor His son,” she said. When she started working in Saudi Arabia in 1986, she found some correlation between her religious teachings and Islam. Her employers gave her books about Islam. “I loved hearing the Azan, and I loved the Muslim way of praying. But still I needed time to know more,” she said. In 1993 she returned to the Philippines as a non-Muslim. However, she had fallen in love with Islam. One day, on the way to church Dania was involved in a motorbike accident and remained in hospital for three months. After leaving hospital she was unable to walk for three months and had to do so with crutches. Her father was sick and her mother jobless. She prayed that she would be cured fast so that she could support her family. Once she asked her Muslim neighbor to take her to the mosque, as she was planning to become a Muslim. Just a few meters before she reached the mosque, Dania asked her neighbor to stop the car. She got out using her canes and prostrated. “My friend was very happy and said Allahu Akbar (God is Great),” she said. Dania added that she came out of the mosque so elated that she was even able to walk without the crutches. She came back to Saudi Arabia 1997 to work for a Saudi couple. The man was a scholar and would often give her books on Islam. In 2003, the sponsors went to Madinah and were hesitant to take her with them because she is non-Muslim. However, they finally took Dania with them. On reaching Madinah she told her sponsor’s wife that she wanted to become Muslim. It was on a Friday when she said the Shahada and went to pray at the Holy Mosque in Madinah. On holiday to the Philippines, Dania was happy to tell her family and friends about her conversion. Her mother was willing to listen and was actually thinking about Islam herself. Her friends were eager to find the true religion and she hopes that one day they will also become Muslim. source

If Muslim doctors are intolerant, let them go By Andrew O'Hagan Last Updated: 12:01am BST 09/10/2007 In the place where I grew up – a particular square in one of the nicer Northern housing estates – there was a young Muslim doctor who lived with his wife and children. I never found out why this gentleman had come to live among us, but he must have known when he made the decision that he and his family might suffer some racial abuse. They duly did suffer it, and I still feel ashamed when I remember how people spoke to them (and about them) in those years. The older daughter was very smart: the family were probably the only middle-class people we knew at the time, though that didn't mean anything very much, and the whole community expressed a terrible degree of contempt towards them – all the more terrible for seeming so natural. advertisementOur Pakistani doctor did something that has now gone quite out fashion – he rose above it. I imagine that he, as an educated man, felt quite sorry for many of the people around him. In any event, he forgave them. He and his wife worked very hard and they alone taught us a crucial lesson in liberalism – that sometimes we must tolerate other people's intolerance. Our neighbour, the doctor, treated everyone's ailments and sought not only to face reality but slowly to change it. His tolerance was much greater than ours and, in some part, he taught a congenitally racist little community how to behave. That is a British story not often told, but none the less true. This all came back to me when I read of the Muslim medical students who won't have anything to do with patients with alcohol problems or sexually transmitted diseases. It should be stated immediately that this is not a large group and it mercifully does not apply to all Muslim trainee doctors. But the British Medical Association has confirmed there are students who are refusing to attend lectures on these matters and that the refusal is being made on religious grounds. Has the world gone mad? It was only last week that Sainsbury's said it would permit Muslim employees who worked at its checkouts to refuse to scan alcohol if doing so offended their religious beliefs. Other Muslim students are refusing to examine female bodies and still more, working in high street pharmacies, refuse to supply the Pill. A friend of mine recently went to a wine warehouse in London. He didn't have a car, so he asked the local minicab firm to come and pick him up, but it declined on account of the fact that the driver on duty refused to have alcohol in the car or to touch it. Let me ask a simple question. Why do people who wish to train to be doctors choose to do so in a culture they find so objectionable as to make their jobs impossible? It's like someone yearning to be a carpenter, only to admit later that he actually has a horrible aversion to wood. Do these enlightened young doctors also hate the ethanol they put into their cars? Do they detest anti-freeze to the same degree that they abhor the sight of women's naked bodies? Britain might have many problems, but it is nevertheless a society with a broad understanding of people's vulnerabilities and conditions, whether that means alcohol-related illnesses or thrush. Are we to de-liberalise in order not to offend the Muslim trainees? Are we to make ourselves more like many of the Muslim countries those young doctors' families fled from in order to have a life in Britain? It's impossible to comprehend this. I'm against those war-mongering fools who imagine that Islamo-fascism pervades every corner of the Muslim consciousness. I'm against those who allow Muslim extremism to colour their entire view of that ancient – and medically innovative! – culture. They would never allow the murderous antics of some abortion-hating Christian fundamentalists to colour their entire view of Christianity, would they? But I'm afraid the actions of this small group of Muslim medics are playing right into the hands of those who want to see Islam as a fundamentally life-hating, reality-hating theocracy. There are millions of believers who know it is not, but the lesson of the militant trainees is that they not only hate the country in which they seek to thrive but that they hate people who aren't them. The good doctor in my youth showed us the desperate limits of our own intolerance, and there is no way he would have encouraged us to stay like that. Sainsbury's and company may think they are being politically correct, but they are simply being ****** and encouraging discrimination where it need not exist. I perfectly understand if people don't want to have anything to do with alcohol, but the remedy is simple: don't work in Sainsbury's. I'm afraid to say I would take those workers off the shop floor immediately and the junior doctors I would send down without a moment's hesitation. I would say exactly the same if a bunch of Catholic pharmacists refused to let people buy condoms, or if a pack of Christian medical students refused to treat women who agreed with abortion. I'd sack them tomorrow morning and feel fine about it long before lunchtime. I dislike the way that those who shout the loudest or create the most fuss always get the bigger share of people's sympathy – it's almost a definition of childishness. How often in life do we fool ourselves into thinking it is fine for the more irrational person in a relationship to hold the reins, just because they grab them, just because they say so, just because we're too troubled by the possible consequences of our firmly saying no. Extremists are just that: they rely on the fact that people in the centre will be too soft to come out and disarm them or scorn their sense of entitlement. Well, I'm scorning it. Despite all their efforts to become educated and make a contribution to human wellbeing, junior doctors who refuse to treat female patients or people with cirrhosis are too ignorant to do the job, unless they wish to do it in an environment where such ignorance is held to indicate some kind of religious nobility. Off you go, then. Be my guest. Your plane awaits. There's a limit to what people should do to please fanatics. source

Mine is: Duchess Cambarro the Fiendish of Lardle Midhoop

Originally posted by Naden: LOL @ Cara. Imperial Majesty Naden the Deipnosophist of Leighton in the Bucket Bucket, my foot Its maybe written as Bucket, but it is pronounced 'Bouquet' ala Hyacinth style ""I have to hold my head up in this community. I'm looked up to. What are they going to think if I go three days without mail?"