^^ lol..nice summary Then there is the court jester, and the misogynist.. So where are the pics and the salary range?

Me Actually my bosses are doing tours to the Amazon. Great idea there if you have the capital. aaah! there is a chatroom here? Reminds me of my youth!

Watch him delivered? That must have been traumatising for you Ngonge.

^^ Islamically, No, She cant. What is the story of Dhegdheer then?

"Inter-clan warfare is a part of hawd lifestyle" You wanna send me there? :eek: You make it (Hawd) sound so romantic and very appealing.

Being a doctor doesnt pay that much money in the UK at least (not sure about Canada). A house doctor gets about £30-£35k pa. After they specialise and set up a private clinic, do they get better pay.

How is it that ye have no faith? There are many successful brothers out there. But we dont seem to appraise them as much as our women. Is it case of 'laga filanwaa'?

Where is exactly Hawdka? Pls point out? Meel badan oo hawd ayaa jira ayaan filayaa. Laakiin where are they located? i.e Between Boosaaso and Qardho? or Qardho and Garoowe? About the skin, it is not about colour, but the texture

"this is what i tell everyone going to Somalia for holidays. Skip the cities/towns and head straight for MIYI." Libaax ma jiro? Going to the miyi doesnt do your skin any favours though. When i go back this December, I intend to take plenty of pictures and perhaps take my camcorder.

Can we have succesful somali men thread now?

Things that would matter to me the most would be: 1- Knowing him less than a month 2- Being a muslim by name The fact you know nothing of him is the shortest path to divorce. You dont want suprises, do you? If you are on the same wavelength with regards to Islam, this mariage could work. But if you are more religious and hoping for him to change, dont bother for it will be futile attempt. In my experience, many girls tried to change their menfolk. It was to no avail. It was a case of take me as I am (and risk in lagu duufsado in the process) or aan kala tagno. Another popular theme was "been ku soo xeri geli, run ku dhaq". Him being a doctor is not relevant at all. Dont let that sway you. So be honest with him and let him down gently.

Originally posted by Northerner: Nur What is 'the' system of Islamic Governance? I.e. the hiarachical structure. Is there one supreme judge/sheikh as in an organisation chart? What are the qualifications required? Who does the voting? Is a regional based system with the heads of those regions being part of the supreme council? salaam aleykum Rather than being allowed to vote for just any rabble-rousing nitwit (like Bush or Blair), In Islamic state you can only vote for Islamically educated technocrats. You can either approve or disapprove of them based on your perception of their morality in accordance to Islamic teachings. Since elections will only be held to replace a leader when they either die or are disqualified on moral grounds, no specific electoral population or special interest group will get to influence policy based upon their own selishness, narrow interest, greed, or hate. One primary leadership position exists, however, all the actions of this leader are further overseen by an elected body of Islamic scholars. Once this leader is chosen, again, Islamic scholars only, this leader will set all policy, appoint all cabinets, and speak for the people (he will have to consult with an elected group of scholars, but he can overrule them if he so chooses). They will only be replaced if the population has determined that they have become corrupt, at which time a new election would be held. At the time of Mohammad, peace be upon him, the Prophet chose those of the best moral character. Now, the people will have to make that determination. This is the Islamic system.

Originally posted by NGONGE: To start with, what other method of governing are you comparing Democracy to? Sharia led governance. Of course I advocate Islamic state. In an Islamic state, people do have a free voice in their government. What they don't have is the power to overrule policies that protect, preserve, and strengthen society. Originally posted by NGONGE: Almost all countries in the world claim to be democracies of sorts. Are you talking about Western democracies only? What will you regard African countries like Uganda and Zimbabwe as? With their high occurrence of Aids and other sexual diseases, would you still assert that they’re more moral than democracies? Surely you cant accuse Robert Mugabe's govt of democracy. Archbishop Desmond Tutu said that Mr Mugabe is becoming a cartoon figure of the archetypal African dictator. Lets discuss western style democracy. Originally posted by NGONGE: would you still say that their form of government is what determines their morality? How about China, North Korea or even the Arab world? Lets leave those despots and dictators aside. We all know who propped up them there. Originally posted by NGONGE: Maybe we need to agree on the definition of democracy and morality first. I’m not sure I fully understand what you’re getting at there. Speaking for myself, I am discussing this with Islamic principles in mind. We all know where we should derive our morality from. There is no way to derive morality outside of God because God is, means, expresses, and verifies morality. As for democracy defined by Westerners, it isn't purely the concept of giving everyone a free voice in their governance, but actually letting any person, whether they be illiterate, ignorant, obsessive, imbalanced, poor-intentioned, selfish, greedy, or etc. influence society (Bush anyone?) Furthermore, the electoral process is one of the biggest problems with Democracy, as elections become a testament not to strenght of ideas but of how much money someone has to get elected. This puts national policy in the hands of the wealthy or the most committed, active special interest group.

Salaam Aleykum Why should we just swallow the argument that if someone accepts Democracy they are enlightened, and if they don't they need to somehow "catch up"? Is Democracy so perfect? I say that to attribute the strengths of Western society to Democracy is to be tricked by an illusion. Here is my argument- Western countries are richer, but richer doesn't equal superior. Might doesn't make right, and rich doesn't make right, either. I assert that the least moral countries in the world are almost always found in Democracies. In democracies, families are breaking down, children are neglected, sexual perversions are widespread. Due to the principle of "voting" definition of right and wrong, Democracies lack the capacity to provide moral leadership. Morality is dictated by the "mob"; mob mentality is primitive and bestial. Is that really a superior form of government? In fact, hasn't history shown us that Democracy always leads to the self-destruction of the culture, to be promptly replaced by much more efficient and effective dictatorial governments? (Greece, Rome, etc). This doesn't mean I condone dictatorships, I am trying to point out the long-term weakness in Democratic-style government. In fact, I posit that every truly Democratic society is doomed to implode under the weight of societal breakdowns brought on by the "outlawing" of moral enforcement (and of moral instruction). The only good contribution Democracy makes is to force politicians to be afraid of oppressing their own people (not other people, just their own). That's it. The real contribution of Western society isn't Democracy and the Western governmental system, but the Rennaissance concept of capturing human potential and the hyperdevelopment of the social sciences (Economics, Sociology, History, etc). This is my view. Therefore, perhaps we should start questioning the automatic assumption that "some day" everyone will "grow up" and become Democratic. Maybe some day the whole world will grow up and employ the Western economic model (and even that needs a few improvements). In fact, I strongly feel that if the whole world were Democratic, our race would be doomed to self-destruct.

Salaam Aleykum After Tawba or repentence from all sin and the start of a new life. 1) Perpetual seeking of repentence when past sins are remembered and new ones are inadvertently committed. 2) Gratitude for all the blessings one has in life and to sponteneously and perpetually thank God for them (like whne having meals with all the family, playing with the children etc.) 3) Patience verbally expressed and adhered to it times of struggle, illness, sadness etc. 4) When apprehension about the future is felt, a dread and fear of poverty, lonliness, depression, old age, incapacity etc. one pushes it out of the mind and seeks refuge from God. If these for are done throughout the day, weeks and months, the awareness of God will arise in our hearts, this will then give us courage, and strenghth and we will be in spiritual ecstacy.

Northern Salaam That wasnt my intention, but i see how it came accross. Apologies to Umair. I saw many programmes at the racist attacks on Africans which is scary. Inshallah you and others will be safe Umair. Nice of you to help. I recall being helped by few Somalis when i first started high school back in 1992. They were great help.

Beerlula salaam I am not a mother, but I can appreciate the difficulties of being a mother. However its blessings and benefits far outweigh the hardship...or so i am told.

Salaam aleykum Umair I cant imagine why anyone would want to study in that country. They are not very kind to immigrants, are they? The awful weather isnt appealing either. I wish you well though. I wonder how well their qualifications are considered in the west (UK/US to be precise)?

Socod Badne You dont argue with women because they got no morals? Is this where you feel your moral sense is superior to that of a woman? What kind of women have you met? They really did a good job on you. Life is too short to be bitter. Careful dear, your insecurity is showing.

Originally posted by somalipride: Go to Somali Talk, listen to President Cade speech. Straight and to the point. Cadde should employ speech writer pronto. He really could do with one.

I wouldnt know where to start. There are comittees that collect money to build hospitals etc in order to help those at the bottom. But how can one influence the top dogs?

That pic says to me " be liberal and educated and you will find the future. Be conservative, and you are stuck in dark ages". Maybe it is the religiosity in me.

"'A senior Anglican bishop has accused many Muslims of being guilty of double standards in their view of the world. The Bishop of Rochester, Michael Nazir-Ali, told the Sunday Times some had a "dual psychology" in which they sought "victimhood and domination". A senior Anglican bishop has accused many Muslims of being guilty of double standards in their view of the world...Mr Nazir-Ali argued it would never be possible to satisfy all of the demands made by Muslims because "their complaint often boils down to the position that it is always right to intervene when Muslims are victims... and always wrong when Muslims are the oppressors or terrorists" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6117912.stm His arguements are the normal tosh which paint Muslims in one light and that is a bad one. They show no conception of the breadth of opinion in Islam and are such unhelpful at best. The idea that Muslims see themselves as victims yet seek domination, is simply not born out by the actuality. It is not an intelligent comment but a broad generalisation which actually lacks intelligent thought and is the common currency of those more interested in attacking Islam than those interested in any form of co-existance.

I wouldnt worry girls. If it is meant to happen, it is meant to happen. I am a great believer in Qadr. You can not force destiny. It has to come to you. I met him at bus stop as we happened to be at the same bus stop, waiting for the same bus. It turned out that i knew of his family and he knew my family. I am not one to be rude and not return greetings when someone greets you. Who knows, you might bag a husband..as i did

I really dont want to go into this, as i was way off topic having read this back. But just to pick up couple of points, neutrality in science cannot always be accepted as an absolute. Bias, and the avoidance of bias, is an important part of the training of researchers. Bias is unaviodable as it is built-in. The aim of science is to find out useful stuff about the world. You may try to minimize it through various ways, but you cannot fully escape it. "Science is a double edged sword it reveals just as much as it hides.." if you slice a cake in a particular way, you end up with a different shaped cake...the act of slicing determenes what is found. Science is like the slicing....it finds certain shapes of cake, calls them 'true' or 'false' and constructs 'knowledge in this way....the point being the actual method (slicing) creates the truth/false and there is no way of by-passing this by using science (the same slicing method). "I have never seen science investigate, study or even deign attention to religion. But religionists are always on science's case. Why is that?" The intelligent design and creationists debate ..ring any bell? Scientists stick their oar in on what kids are taught and what to include the school curriculum. Many place science on great importance (in some cases this maybe true) but it is asking a lot from science to explain the unexplainable. Logic and science as concieved attempts to limit and determene truth...but all it does is discover the what, where, how of phenomena not the Truth as it is. "You sound like little petulent girl stomping her feet on the ground, pouting about Mommy not painting her room according to her favourite color." Enough with the personal attacks. We are just having discussion, a civil one I hope. Apologies to Northerner for going off-topic.