I am all for muslim clerics and scholars crossing the Rubicon and reaching out to British(Western) society promoting multiculturalism and diversity. Is this action by meco a feasible and pragmatic option and will this ameliorate the fraught relations that currently exist?

Bob I made some hot malawax for my hubby once...lol I am kidding! I am not the most spontenous person in the world, but i booked short holiday in Vienna once. I made sure i cleared my hubby's diary and got my brother to drive him to the airport and meet me there. He didnt know where we were going till we got to our gate. That is about as crazy as i get for my loved ones

Salaam Love can make you do crazy things.

Muslims to pay school's legal fight to uphold niqab ban By Philip Johnston, Home Affairs Editor Last Updated: 2:42am GMT 07/02/2007 Comment on this story Read comments In pictures: Degrees of veiling A Muslim group has offered to help fund a school's legal battle over its refusal to let a pupil wear the niqab in class. Veiled woman: The niqab, which covers the whole face apart from the eyes In an unprecedented move, the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford (Meco) has written to the head teacher to say it is prepared to contribute to a fighting fund. Taj Hargey, Meco's chairman, said he was also willing to organise a campaign among Muslims nationally to resist "this largely Saudi-driven campaign to make the niqab a compulsory requirement for Muslim women". Dr Hargey's offer comes as the school, which cannot be identified because of a court order, faces the prospect of an expensive legal fight without any backing. Buckinghamshire county council, the local authority for the school, is unwilling to underwrite a challenge which it believes could cost as much as £500,000. A court on Thursday is due to decide whether the school's decision not to allow the pupil, aged 12, to wear the veil should go to a full judicial review. The school, which already allows girls to wear head scarves called hijabs, drew the line at the niqab, which covers the whole face except the eyes. It is insisting that the family accepts the uniform policy but the father has been given legal aid to fight a human rights case. advertisementLast year the law lords ruled that a school in Luton, Beds, was justified in barring Shabina Begum from wearing a jilbab, a long loose gown, to classes but it took a long and expensive legal fight. The judges made clear that their ruling applied only to the Luton case and it is unclear whether other courts will consider the judgment to have established case law. If the court allows the case to proceed, the school may be forced to back down, potentially rendering any policy on uniform unenforceable at any school threatened with legal action. The case is complicated because the girl's sisters were allowed to wear the niqab when a different head was in charge. A new policy has been introduced which the father is challenging. The girl has not been excluded, but has been out of school since early October. In his letter to the school, Dr Hargey said the father's insistence on his daughter wearing the niqab was a "non-Islamic imposition upon your institution". He added: "We are strongly committed to offering you our full and unequivocal support in banning face-masks at school. We trust that you will continue to resist any move to implement this kind of minority ethnic obsession, which has no foundation whatsoever in the transcendent sources of Islamic law." Dr Hargey said that since the school's dress code already allowed the option for Muslim girls to wear the hijab, there was no need for full-face covering. Paul Goodman, the Conservative MP for Wycombe, has pressed the county council to back the school. But although it says it supports the school's right to decide its own dress code, the council has not promised to fund a legal defence. Mr Goodman said: "My own view is that we don't want veils in our schools. Veils are a sign of separation." The school has sought to stay out of the wider cultural issues involved and has taken a stand for "educational and security reasons". The Department for Education is said to be watching the case closely because of the potential for wider implications if the school has to back down or loses a human rights case. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/05/nveil05.xml I think it is ridiculous that a 12 yr old wants to wear niqab in school. But my concern is the muslims (meco) who are paying the school's legal fees. Will this cause even more rift among muslims or will it aide in bringing communities together?

Member of them? You are kidding right? I abhor and dislike intensly in everything they stand for. One of them is second uncle and he thought he could invite us for dinner with this blood money. Anyhow they are just uneducated bunch of dhooroos. And you know what happens when they acquire power over the poor folks? Yep...they abuse it.

Oh My God..some people would sell their mothers if the price is right. I hope to God that they dont set up anything in Africa, let alone Somalia. Isnt bad enough that they meddle into our affairs already? Having been to Boosaaso, i met the so-called Puntland Intelligence Service (PIS) (i call them jaajuusta Puntland). They get paid hundred of thousands of dollars just to hand in any cleric oo juuqjuuq sameeyo.

Yaa Janaraale I think you are getting disenchanted with our government. I guess it is to be expected, after all what do you expect when one supports blindly a poor and weak non-functioning, toothless govt. Cayaari waa gelinka danbe.

Lax walba meeshey is dhigtaa lagu gowracaa. Bloomy dear..stop disrespecting the sister.

Jumbo, Jumbo Jaana, Khabargani, Hakuuna mataata...very uplifting tune

Originally posted by Johnny B: Honour killings, forced marriages and FGM are unique problems for the modren Muslim-women of today, while wife beating is universasl. You are wrong there my friend. Honour killings and forced marriages is prevalent in Sikh/Hindu communties. Honour" killings isn't an Indo-Pak phenomenon either. Let see who also practise FGM..In Egypt Christians and muslims alike mutilate their females. Originally posted by Johnny B: Getting humoured ,i don't see how you'd address these issues unlike Ayan, without considering the theo-socio factors that help stablish these harmful social traits in the first place.. Unless making stuff up without researching, Islam shouldnt be an issue. Originally posted by Johnny B: Be it Culture or Religion, according to some sociologists, certain traits can only blomster in a society either by having a sound direct usefullness or having a theological shoulder to lean on.. Can i ask you where in the scriptures does it say that 'honour killing' or forced marriage is acceptable? My point is, some twisted people in all creeds in that region practise this horrendous acts. Nothing to do with religion. Originally posted by Johnny B: Now, i do understand that you're of the idea that 'if it's good it's Islam,if it is bad it is Culture', Sometimes i do wonder why we run when we cant even walk. I think the discussion should begin with Islam and its validity in the modern soceity. I have an inkling that Islam isnt your cup of tea. Originally posted by Johnny B: but can you explain why those socially harmful traits (Honour killings, forced marriages and FGM ) survived Islam, and are almost unique to the Muslim societies.? Do you research here. It is not lmost unique in the muslim community.

^^ Che what r you on about? Most girls wear black number to pull Congrats to the happy couple. Gabar iyo caano, wiil iyo malab.

US Mayor Reverts to Islam IslamOnline.net & News Agencies "I went back to my roots I guess you could say," said Ellis. MACON, Georgia — The mayor of Macon in the American state of Georgia, a practicing Christian, has reverted to Islam, saying he went back to his roots after years of soul-searching. "Why does one become a Christian? You do it because it feels right. . . . To me, it’s no big deal. But people like to know what you believe in," Jack Ellis, who changed his name to Hakim Mansour Ellis, was quoted as saying Saturday, February 3, by the American Boston Herald newspaper. Ellis noted that he studied the Noble Qur'an for years and found his destination in Islam following a trip to the African country of Senegal, saying that his new religion was practiced by his ancestors before they were brought to North America as slaves. "I did revert to Islam in December of this past year in the country of Senegal," he said in statements carried Saturday by WMAZ-TV, a local television in the City of Columbia, South Carolina. The father-of-five said he started praying five times a day and regularly frequents the Islamic Center on Bloomfield Road, proud of religious freedom in the United States. He said although he reverted to Islam, he does not rank religions. "I'm not saying that one is better than the other," Ellis said. "We do believe that the prophet Muhammad was the last prophet as well as we believe Moses was a prophet," Ellis added. Born on January 6, 1946 in Macon, Ellis holds a Bachelor of Arts Degree from St. Leo College in Florida. According to his website, Ellis served two years of combat duty in Vietnam as a paratrooper platoon sergeant with the 101st Airborne Division. He was awarded three Bronze Stars, the Army Commendation Medal for Valor and Heroism, and the Purple Heart for wounds received in combat. Ellis will complete his second consecutive four-year term, as a mayor of Macon, in December and isn't eligible for re-election. But he said he might run for Georgia's 8th District congressional seat in 2008. Ellis was first sworn in as Mayor of Macon on December 14, 1999 becoming the first black Mayor in the city’s 176-year history. He is the 40th mayor of Macon and currently serving his second term. Back to Roots Ellis has made Macon one of the most viable cities across the United States. Ellis said felt home when he accepted Islam. "I went back to my roots I guess you could say," he said. He said that although his reversion is a personnel affair, it is the right of voters, as long as he is a public figure, to know his decision. "It's a personal decision, a private decision as to how one worships. But I do understand that I'm not a private person," Ellis said. "But being the mayor of the city, I think people have a right to know what I believe in, that I am a man of faith, and the faith I'm now a part of is the faith of Islam," he added. Voters reelected Ellis as he made Macon one of the most livable cities in America. He used his Federal and State grants to assist the youth in job training, mentoring, tutoring, after-school programs and crime reduction programs. He built over forty affordable houses marketed to first time homebuyers. Ellish is presently constructing hundreds of affordable and market-rate houses in the Beall’s Hill area, according to his website. "Now, I'm sharing with my broader family, the Macon community who supported me when I was a Christian and trust that they will now," Ellis said. "I'm the same person even though I'll be changing my name," he added. http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1170514785077&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

Ngonge..In a country like SA, chances are you will end being murdered, your organs might be taken out and sold. So to die in a masjid is considerably better and more appealing to any muslim. Life is sacred..but we sure do live an era where the life of person cost nothing.

^^ I would have thought that was obvious (or at least obvious to those who studied Islam). But to humour you, acts such as honour killings, forced marriages, FGM and wife beating arent part of Islam. A Hersi tries to persuade (albeit not convincingly) us that Islam is the problem.

Propaganda Techniques Library Think Quest - 09/11/2006 Very interesting listing for the main propaganda techniques that we are exposed to in every minute of our lives. Assertion: Assertion is commonly used in advertising and modern propaganda. An assertion is an enthusiastic or energetic statement presented as a fact, although it is not necessarily true. They often imply that the statement requires no explanation or back up, but that it should merely be accepted without question. Examples of assertion, although somewhat scarce in wartime propaganda, can be found often in modern advertising propaganda. Any time an advertiser states that their product is the best without providing evidence for this, they are using an assertion. The subject, ideally, should simply agree to the statement without searching for additional information or reasoning. Assertions, although usually simple to spot, are often dangerous forms of propaganda because they often include falsehoods or lies. Bandwagon: Bandwagon is one of the most common techniques in both wartime and peacetime and plays an important part in modern advertising. Bandwagon is also one of the seven main propaganda techniques identified by the Institute for Propaganda Analysis in 1938. Bandwagon is an appeal to the subject to follow the crowd, to join in because others are doing so as well. Bandwagon propaganda is, essentially, trying to convince the subject that one side is the winning side, because more people have joined it. The subject is meant to believe that since so many people have joined, that victory is inevitable and defeat impossible. Since the average person always wants to be on the winning side, he or she is compelled to join in. However, in modern propaganda, bandwagon has taken a new twist. The subject is to be convinced by the propaganda that since everyone else is doing it, they will be left out if they do not. This is, effectively, the opposite of the other type of bandwagon, but usually provokes the same results. Subjects of bandwagon are compelled to join in because everyone else is doing so as well. When confronted with bandwagon propaganda, we should weigh the pros and cons of joining in independently from the amount of people who have already joined, and, as with most types of propaganda, we should seek more information. Card stacking: Card stacking, or selective omission, is one of the seven techniques identified by the IPA, or Institute for Propaganda Analysis. It involves only presenting information that is positive to an idea or proposal and omitting information contrary to it. Card stacking is used in almost all forms of propaganda, and is extremely effective in convincing the public. Although the majority of information presented by the card stacking approach is true, it is dangerous because it omits important information. The best way to deal with card stacking is to get more information. Glittering Generalities: Glittering generalities was one of the seven main propaganda techniques identified by the Institute for Propaganda Analysis in 1938. It also occurs very often in politics and political propaganda. Glittering generalities are words that have different positive meaning for individual subjects, but are linked to highly valued concepts. When these words are used, they demand approval without thinking, simply because such an important concept is involved. For example, when a person is asked to do something in "defense of democracy" they are more likely to agree. The concept of democracy has a positive connotation to them because it is linked to a concept that they value. Words often used as glittering generalities are honor, glory, love of country, and especially in the United States, freedom. When coming across with glittering generalities, we should especially consider the merits of the idea itself when separated from specific words. Lesser of Two Evils: The "lesser of two evils" technique tries to convince us of an idea or proposal by presenting it as the least offensive option. This technique is often implemented during wartime to convince people of the need for sacrifices or to justify difficult decisions. This technique is often accompanied by adding blame on an enemy country or political group. One idea or proposal is often depicted as one of the only options or paths. When confronted with this technique, the subject should consider the value of any proposal independently of those it is being compared with. Name Calling: Name calling occurs often in politics and wartime scenarios, but very seldom in advertising. It is another of the seven main techniques designated by the Institute for Propaganda Analysis. It is the use of derogatory language or words that carry a negative connotation when describing an enemy. The propaganda attempts to arouse prejudice among the public by labeling the target something that the public dislikes. Often, name calling is employed using sarcasm and ridicule, and shows up often in political cartoons or writings. When examining name calling propaganda, we should attempt to separate our feelings about the name and our feelings about the actual idea or proposal. Pinpointing the Enemy: Pinpointing the enemy is used extremely often during wartime, and also in political campaigns and debates. This is an attempt to simplify a complex situation by presenting one specific group or person as the enemy. Although there may be other factors involved the subject is urged to simply view the situation in terms of clear-cut right and wrong. When coming in contact with this technique, the subject should attempt to consider all other factors tied into the situation. As with almost all propaganda techniques, the subject should attempt to find more information on the topic. An informed person is much less susceptible to this sort of propaganda. Plain Folks: The plain folks propaganda technique was another of the seven main techniques identified by the IPA, or Institute for Propaganda Analysis. The plain folks device is an attempt by the propagandist to convince the public that his views reflect those of the common person and that they are also working for the benefit of the common person. The propagandist will often attempt to use the accent of a specific audience as well as using specific idioms or jokes. Also, the propagandist, especially during speeches, may attempt to increase the illusion through imperfect pronunciation, stuttering, and a more limited vocabulary. Errors such as these help add to the impression of sincerity and spontaneity. This technique is usually most effective when used with glittering generalities, in an attempt to convince the public that the propagandist views about highly valued ideas are similar to their own and therefore more valid. When confronted by this type of propaganda, the subject should consider the proposals and ideas separately from the personality of the presenter. Simplification (Stereotyping): Simplification is extremely similar to pinpointing the enemy, in that it often reduces a complex situation to a clear-cut choice involving good and evil. This technique is often useful in swaying uneducated audiences. When faced with simplification, it is often useful to examine other factors and pieces of the proposal or idea, and, as with all other forms of propaganda, it is essential to get more information. Testimonials: Testimonials are another of the seven main forms of propaganda identified by the Institute for Propaganda Analysis. Testimonials are quotations or endorsements, in or out of context, which attempt to connect a famous or respectable person with a product or item. Testimonials are very closely connected to the transfer technique, in that an attempt is made to connect an agreeable person to another item. Testimonials are often used in advertising and political campaigns. When coming across testimonials, the subject should consider the merits of the item or proposal independently of the person of organization giving the testimonial. Transfer: Transfer is another of the seven main propaganda terms first used by the Institute for Propaganda Analysis in 1938. Transfer is often used in politics and during wartime. It is an attempt to make the subject view a certain item in the same way as they view another item, to link the two in the subjects mind. Although this technique is often used to transfer negative feelings for one object to another, it can also be used in positive ways. By linking an item to something the subject respects or enjoys, positive feelings can be generated for it. However, in politics, transfer is most often used to transfer blame or bad feelings from one politician to another of his friends or party members, or even to the party itself. When confronted with propaganda using the transfer technique, we should question the merits or problems of the proposal or idea independently of convictions about other objects or proposals. ______________________________ __________ -Source: library.thinkquest.org.

^^Ngonge, Is there anything worth dying for ?

Johnny She did not only lie about her birth date apparently, she lied about her marriage being under duress and arranged without her consent. The truth matters escpecially when youa re taking on a whole religion, and she has, apparently, little concern for it. How sure can we (those of us who didnt go through the trouble to study Islam) be with regards to what she claims Islam potrays and says about muslim women ? I agree that in some cases women are being abused, but Islam doesn’t condone it and it is not only in the muslim community that have this problem. She is just trying to gain fame, and the quickest way she thinks she can gain it is by insulting Islam and Prophet Muhammad(may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and his campanions) Ms Hirsi-Ali is right to take issue with domestic violence, female circumcision, equal opportunities and so forth. However, there is no need to antagonise whole communities and make up lies with regards to the faith they hold close to their heart. She is not really endearing herself to the very people she is claiming to help now, is she? She should be working closely with her community to resolve such issues through effective means. Alienating people won’t help her cause. I agree with the fight for womens freedom but to insult Islam is another. Showing the problems women go through is important to tackle and stop but to insult Islam and cause riots thats another problem. Its culture that you need to tackle that uses Islam to make it ugly. The fight is not against Islam but against opressive cultures. Ayan Hirsi has decided that Islam is to blame. What a pity, because as intelligent as she is, she has not been able to learn more about Islam and be able to make a distiction between culture and religion. I beleive that all that she is doing is for fame and to gain acceptance in the western world,(no wonder they are supportive )or maybe out of anger over her past. There are ways of fighting for women, but she certainly isnt standing up for my cause as a woman.

South Africa, not sure of the city. Bob..that sounds scary..but wasnt there a one brave one to tackle the men and perhaps die as a martyr? A missed opportunity methinks

I dont know why they take this woman so seriously. We all know she is a liar and her family has also refuted her claims about her past. But as long as she reinforces the prejudices against Islam no doubt she will be feted by the Western media whereever she next turns up, irrespective of the fact that she is a self confessed liar.

Rudy..you actually have been married before? Are you for real dude?

That is really shameful. I would suggest that those God-fearing people should pray nearby masjids and leave kuwa rabshada wada.

^^ Not true my friend. I know for a fact that members of the TFG parliament earn $2k per month. This is more than adequate for the living standards in Somalia.

My eyes.

Yep. It has been a while now. I used to work as a ticket seller at many staduims in London such as Highbury, Craven Cottage, Loftus Rd, The Valley, Selhurst Park, Stamford Bridge and Wembley. I dont know how i will be received at those staduims now with my cabaaya and hijab. But it was most fun. We used to have concerts as well. But one of my shocking memories was when Princess Diane died and i was working at Craven Cottage and Mohamed Al fayed went all out by setting up massive screens with free food etc..and people bowling their eyes out for someone they have never met.

^^ nothing beats attending a football match.