^^ What is moderate? I dont think they are moderate. More like misguided. With regards to Osama Bin Laden, IF he is responsible the attrocities that the US say he is..i.e. the world trade centre, I dont think he would make a good leader at all.

Everything is shaxshax...except that there arent enough hours in the day and working full time sucks big time.

Originally posted by Suuro: A muslim site with 108 responses to the topic: Is there 108 ways to say sick & hell no for my kids? I am gobsmacked too. No doubt..some will think of us as backwrds and intolerable by refusing our kids be exposed to this kind of thing. Originally posted by ThePoint: making things acceptable and palatable likely increases the chances of someone engaging in these practices This is exactly my point. No one is talking about discriminating. Make this acceptable to a malleable child is dangerous and a nightmare for any muslim. The problem with these books is that it is teaching the children that same sex couples is the norm. These books can not be considered educational. They are giving the impression that families with same sex parents are acceptable, I'm sorry but they are not. For heavens sake, one of the books is a story about Gay Penguins who are given an egg because they cant have one of their own. Too much is being taught to young children nowadays before it is needed. Children should be allowed to remain as children for as long as possible without the liberals trying to force social acceptance in respect of single sex parents upon them.

^^ lool..I always found the story of cilmi boodhari litle bit creepy. A bit like the song that used to come on Somali TV. It was a blind man singing "Hello, hello-hello". Now that i found a little bit traumatising. Xalane..adiga muraqaani aa tahay. Gabar ma weyneysid Just grunt urrgghh when she says hello.

I just wanted to say that I dont think its the fact there are clothes shops, shoe shops etc there - its the TYPE of shopes - i.e. the article says Tiffany and Cartier! and also the other issue is the extrvagence and ostentatiousness of the shopping mall - its been designed to attract attention away from the Holy Mosque and Islam and to designer labels and extrvagence. I heavily dislike the whole 'designer-lable nonsense that is existent in our society - as if wearing Armani jeans makes you a better or more successful person than the one in the Topshop pair. When you go to Hajj you all dress the same - a large element of Hajj is unity and equality. How can this be when on leaving the mosque one muslim pops over the road and buys tiffany jewellery while the other starts the long walk back to the 2 star hotel in the sandals he's had for 5 years. The REAL danger with this is that people are going to start worshipping the £ and not Allah swt - and thats soemthing we have to be aware of and prevent - its something that has brought many groups to the mercy of consumersim before us

Salaam Waa maxay meeshani? It is like soap opera. Qof baa dadka oo dhan maraya. Dont forget to get tested boys . Murqaha yar aad moodo liin dhanaan, soo weyniya then. Then you may have a chance. CL is not fussy though

Quite disappointing. People are encouraged to spend thousands on a pilgrimage which they believe is essential to all healthy Muslims. They make the trip, only to be further exploited by people eager to take whatever money they have left. Imagine finding the Ka'ba on one side of you and a huge shopping mall on the next. what happened to spending in the way of Alllah swt?What happened to abhorring extrvagence and arrogance through wealth. Hajj is about giving up everything and building your spiritual side and connecting with Allah(swt) and now it seems they are reducing this to nothing more then a materialistic trip where you got the shopping malls and arcades etc Inshallah, the Saudis will see sense before they break everything to turn a buck.

What if the asteroid had missed? By Georgie Hatt-Cook BBC Horizon It could have all been so different Horizon: My pet dinosaur Tue 13 March, 2100 GMT, BBC2 The extinction of the dinosaurs was most probably caused by an asteroid hitting the Earth - but what would have happened if the giant space rock had missed? For a long time it was thought that dinosaurs were a lumbering, cold-blooded extinction just waiting to happen. Even the word dinosaur has come to mean something that has outlived its time. The scientific argument was that as cold-blooded creatures, dinosaurs would not have stood a chance of surviving an ice age. "According to the first imaginings of palaeontologists and the general public about dinosaurs, we thought of them as reptiles," says Kristi Curry-Rogers, from the Science Museum of Minnesota. "'Reptile' is a word which comes with a lot of other connotations, like cold-blooded, slow-moving, sprawling, scaly skins, kind of ******." But more recent discoveries, such as dinosaur fossils in both polar regions, reveal that these animals were far more adaptable than previously thought. Dr Curry-Rogers has analysed fossilised bones from Late Cretaceous (65-99 million years ago) dinosaurs and found them to have more in common with mammals and birds than reptiles. They were the superlatives; they were the biggest, the heaviest, the meanest, the longest. You name it, dinosaurs were it Prof Phil Currie, University of Alberta The evidence points to them being fast-growing and, crucially, that at least some of them were warm-blooded to some degree. "They were perfectly well-adapted to deal with the problems of maintaining a body temperature," Dr Curry-Rogers told the BBC's Horizon programme. In other words, some of the dinosaurs were more than equipped to survive almost anything that the evolving planet had to throw at them. Ongoing domination "They were the superlatives; they were the biggest, the heaviest, the meanest, the longest. You name it, dinosaurs were it," says fellow palaeontologist Phil Currie, from the University of Alberta in Canada, who has access to one of the richest areas of dinosaur research in the world. "The badlands of Alberta clearly show that at the end of the Cretaceous, dinosaurs were extremely successful still," says Professor Currie, who points to dozens of different dinosaur species living in that one environment at the same time. Had the asteroid missed, he believes, dinosaurs would have continued to dominate. "We wouldn't have the modern animals that we're used to. Giraffes and elephants and so on; they just wouldn't have evolved because dinosaurs would still be here," says Professor Currie. Instead of elephants, there would be large plant-devouring sauropods. In place of lions on the plains of Africa would be tyrannosaurs. Adaptable dinosaurs had it all covered. Dinosaurs could have comfortably colonised many environments, from polar conditions to regions of rivers and forests, jungle and deserts. A world with dinosaurs in it would be at the expense of most, if not all, of the mammals that we are familiar with today - and all that we rely on them for. No cows, no sheep, no cats equal no milk, no leather, no wool, no domestic companionship. But milk aside, there could be perfectly suitable dino-substitutes of all kind. A Protoceratops could be as farmable as a pig with the bonus of providing eggs. And an amenable Heterodontosaurus might make a perfect pet. Great with children. They could even have adapted to current-day habitats, dining on suburban dustbins. Something like us Perhaps the most advanced dinosaur at the time of the extinction was the Troodon which was "as cunning as a fox", according to palaeontologist Larry Witmer of Ohio University. They were small, upright, bi-pedal dinosaurs which lived in large groups. By studying the brain cavity, Witmer has found evidence they possessed good vision and even potentially had a brain structure compatible with problem-solving. "If Troodon were around today, co-existing with humans, we'd probably call it a pest," says Professor Witmer. With its substantial brain, long grasping hands and big eyes, could Troodon have evolved to become more intelligent? Evolutionary palaeo-biologist Dr Simon Conway Morris believes they could even have evolved along the lines of primates or humans. "The human is extraordinarily well designed," he says. The whole arrangement is actually designed for a particular mode of life, which, as you can see looking around us, is incredibly successful. "If it's such a good solution for us, is it so difficult to imagine it could be a good solution for a dinosaur, therefore a 'dinosauroid'?" But most palaeontologists see the dinosauroid as an insult to dinosaurs. "Dinosaurs probably would have continued along their dinosaurian trajectory, getting bigger brains and bigger eyes," says Kristi Curry-Rogers. "But I doubt seriously that any dinosaur would ever end up looking like a person, and it is fairly arrogant to think that the end point of all evolutionary trajectories should sort of emulate human beings." If the asteroid had missed, there probably wouldn't be humans here today either to find out how it would have turned out. The impact that ended the golden age of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago made for an extremely bad dinosaur day but it was also a very good mammal day. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/science/nature/6444811.stm Published: 2007/03/13 10:17:49 GMT Horizon: My Pet Dinosaur is broadcast on BBC Two on Tuesday 13 March at 2100GMT

This is how you do it: India's reluctant billionaire By Steve Schifferes Economics reporter, BBC News, Bangalore AZIM PREMJI Born: 24 July 1945 Job: Wipro boss since 1968 Net worth: $11bn Education: BA, electrical engineering, Stanford Family: wife (Yasmeen), two sons (Rishad and Tariq) Wipro chairman Azim Premji wears his crown as India's richest man lightly. He still drives a Toyota Corolla, flies economy class, and lives on campus at Wipro's headquarters in Bangalore. But Mr Premji is one of India's most important hi-tech entrepreneurs. He built his father's vegetable oil company into a $25bn global outsourcing giant which is challenging the likes of IBM and Accenture, and transforming the way many multinationals do business. In an exclusive interview, Mr Premji said that with wealth came responsibilities - to his employees, to his clients, and above all to society. With the attention I got on my wealth, I thought I would have become a source of resentment, but it is just the other way around - it just generates that much more ambition in many people Azim Premji "At the end of the day there is only x-amount you can consume, frankly, so that itself becomes a limitation," he told the BBC. "I think that any wealth creates a sense of trusteeship ... it is characteristic of the new generation which has created wealth to have some amount of responsibility for it." Admired, not envied Mr Premji believes that his success in business, rather than causing envy, has inspired a new generation in India to become more entrepreneurial. GLOBALISATION SERIES A series on India's world class IT outsourcing industry Friday: Your experiences In two weeks: Detroit's decline "With the attention I got on my wealth, I thought I would have become a source of resentment, but it is just the other way around - it just generates that much more ambition in many people," he says. Many admire men like Mr Premji, or Nandan Nilekani, the boss of Infosys, who has become a millionaire from his share options. Indians are proud that they are at last joining the ranks of the world's billionaires, with the number of Indians on the Forbes Rich List doubling from 13 to 27 last year. Many of the new billionaires are also self-made men, like the head of Jet Airways, Naresh Goyal. Many of India's biggest companies are still family firms, such as Wipro, Tata and Reliance. And some, like steel magnate Lakshmi Mittal, have become global players and no longer live in India (Mr Premji is the richest Indian businessman who lives in India; Mr Mittal, who doesn't, is wealthier). Building India's IT industry Mr Premji played a key role in building up one of India's most successful industries. India is the most important global location for outsourcing of business services, and Bangalore is the heart of the IT industry. Mr Premji believes India had two advantages in IT outsourcing: a skilled workforce that was literate in maths; and widespread literacy in English, the global business language. WIPRO HQ: Bangalore Employees: 61,000 Employees abroad: 11,000 Revenues: $2.2bn Market value: $25bn Source: Company employees as of 31.12.06; revenues as of 31.3.06 market value as of 22.1.07 But the industry was only able to develop in the late 1990s when the government liberalised the telecoms sector and the cost of bandwidth dropped dramatically. "I was basically trying to have a vision. One saw what was happening in manufacturing 25 years ago in terms of globalisation of manufacturing. "The biggest bet the industry made is that, if can happen to manufacturing, it can happen to services - at least, the type of services that can be remotely delivered," he says. But for the Indian IT industry to realise its potential, it needed to invest in people. "I think the most important reason for our success is that very early in our quest into globalisation, we invested in people - and we have done that consistently and particularly in the service business. "People are the key to success or extraordinary success." Wipro's values included a refusal to pay bribes, which cost the firm work in the early days. Western competition Managing Wipro's explosive growth has been difficult. For them, India is a back room - for us, India is the front room Azim Premji The company now hires 20,000 graduates each year, and faces competition from foreign multinationals also flooding into Bangalore. As the demand for IT professionals has risen, Wipro has been forced to raise salaries twice in 2006. However, Mr Premji believes that India is fully capable of increasing its output of college-educated engineers - already the largest in the world, with 400,000 graduates a year - to meet the growing demand. PREMJI FOUNDATION Spending: $4m a year Schools helped: 18,000 Multimedia DVDs: 464 educational games in 18 languages He says the industry is also training liberal arts college graduates to do the same work. And he claims that Indian IT professionals prefer to work for Indian companies rather than foreign multinationals, because their career prospects are better. "Today we hire more people from IBM and Accenture in India than we lose to them - because they've also realised that they are in India for a certain price advantage and they cannot afford to pay silly salaries because they dilute their price advantage. "For them, India is a back room - for us, India is the front room," he says. Reverse outsourcing But Mr Premji believes that in the long run, the answer to the skills squeeze in India is for Wipro to do more work abroad. Wipro already employs 11,000 professionals overseas and expects 20% of its business to be offshored from India in the medium term. INDIA'S TOP BILLIONAIRES Lakshmi Mittal (steel)* Azim Premji (IT software) Ambani brothers (oil, telecoms) Kushal Pal Singh (construction) Sunil Mittal (telecoms) Source: Forbes *not resident in India He is planning further expansion in Europe, Japan and the Middle East. "Indian service companies typically in software services will lead to globalise more - they'll need to localise more," he told the BBC. "They'll need to localise more because of community reasons - community pressures will build up, visa pressures will build up and in a way, understandably so." Mr Premji is well aware that in many Western countries, there is a growing backlash against the outsourcing industry, as many skilled professionals fear they will lose their jobs. I would take China as serious competition for anything in the world Azim Premji But he says that globalisation has to be a two-way street. "If you want emerging countries such as India - which is going to be one of your major markets - to open its borders to global competition and global access for products and services, the quid pro quo is that you have to play fair as a developed nation. "The Western world loves liberalisation, provided it doesn't affect them. But that's the case with all countries all over the world - liberalisation is a great word if it doesn't affect you." Many UK companies, however, complain that the UK is far more open to inward investment than India, which is still in the process of relaxing its tough controls on foreign ownership. The China factor Like businessmen all over the world, Mr Premji fears one country above all others - China. Wipro already has set up operations in China, which has one of the world's largest software industries. At the moment, most of that IT effort goes into manufacturing design, not outsourcing. But Mr Premji believes that once China has trained enough people to speak English, it will be a real competitive threat to his business. "I would take China as serious competition for anything in the world. I think Western nations are realising that too late," he said. Mr Premji believes that the most important thing India can do to maintain its global competitiveness is to improve its education system, which he says is failing women. He has set up the Premji Foundation to fund projects in 18,000 schools across India, which aim to encourage students to develop computer skills. And his hope is that, as more girls stay on and finish school, the birth rate will drop to the same level as China. Improved education and a lower birth rate, he argues, would give India a chance to find enough jobs for the tens of millions of young people coming to the labour market each year. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/business/6312195.stm Published: 2007/02/07 00:31:48 GMT

Itaqillah..ayaa ku filan. I recall when a friend of mine wanted to take her shahada. I took her to Whitechappel masjid. She wasnt praying obviously and my other friend who was with us wasnt praying as it was the time of the month. Anyhow my muslim friend sat at very corner with the non-muslim one. I prayed Asr. After the salaah, this somali lady came gunning for us, She said to my friends "why arent you praying" we told her that one aint muslim yet and the other cant. She screamed and told us to leave the masjid quickly as we arent permitted in this condition. I can actually understand what she was saying but her manners to relay the advice left a lot to be desired. The non-muslim was frightened and thought she has done something wrong. Thankfully..that didnt deter her to take her shahada.

Leave my detol alone. Add little bit of ginger and qorfo iyo hayl..viola! we have a great cup of drink. Besides, Jaceylb..tell me you and whose army "can make my entire world into a heaven"..loool War ninyahow..you have high opinion of oneself. It is better that you come recommended by someone who tried the saqiir.

Originally posted by Northerner: Cambarro, look what you started! 7 pages in less than 24 hours. A new record? Indeed. I honestly didnt think that we somalis had this wide range of opinions in matters like this. We indeed have moved on. Not sure whether it is for the better though.

Salaam Where in UK do you live? I can direct you to good masjids inshallah. I find that most somali ladies arent welcoming but it is good tomake the first move and smile. They will be open a lot more. Just cos they are muslimahs in masjid, it doesnt mean they are not prone to backbiting or being unfriendliness. I completely understand where you are coming but i find that small smile and saying hello first tend to break the ice.

I assume no one has seen the first 2 parts? The last part is on tonight. To be honest..it was confusing. It had sufism slant on it with all its dhikr and chanting and grave visiting.

Originally posted by Valenteenah: OMG ! Don't be dirty-minded now, Cambarro . Waa ku sidee? Waad iga nixisay, walaahi. It was a wholly innocent comment. I've been duly chastised. Nothing like having a good stern talking to. Darn you Cambarro!

Originally posted by Valenteenah: as I have enjoyed each and every handle I have ever owned. Very pregnant statement there

^^Oh the horror of being called a liberal! Xiinfiinin There is a man who understand where i was coming from. We still do have hope.

^^ What do you mean boy? I have specifically asked for a man. I hope he has return to sender address.

Originally posted by Abwaan: another 70 jir asaasaqay. Waxaanba la yaabay siduu da'da ula dagaalo oo uu boolbare iyo timo-madoobeyso iskula dhaco@lol............................ lol Xilligii tusbaxa uu qaadan lahaa buu joogaa.

lool Johnny..Get with the time ..i dheh! CG..Tell my prince charming..he is late by 5 yrs. he missed the boat That is what you get when your only means of transport is a horse! Where is Taliban when you need him? He would put you guys in your place!

JaceylB "When the sun rises over the craggy hills of Hargeysa, it sheds light on a different kind of Somalia. Ice-cream vans serving bona fide soft serve hit the streets. Money changers, unarmed and unguarded, push cash through the market in wheelbarrows. It’s all part of a Somali puzzle: How one area of the country, the northwest, also known as Somaliland, can seem so peaceful and functional — so normal, in fact — while the rest continues to be such a violent, chaotic mess." Not true. I can think of another region that is doing well also: Boosaaso/Qardho and Garoowe. There was not a gun in sight. When I was there, the city was calm, peaceful and the hustle and bustle was quite evident. It was booming.

^^ what do you call when man and woman get naked and doing the deed? That was what i watched in year 8. I am not exxagerating. Imagine a 5 yr old who has read the books, thinking it is alright to fall in love either men or women. These fairy tale books represents something to kids. I loved hearing the stories of Cinderalla, Snow White and 7 dwarves, Repunzel etc I always dreamt that one day my prince charming would come and sweep oof my feet Lovely dream..i know...but reality is different (Hope my hubby aint reading this ) I would be very shocked if your daughter/son dreams of Princess charming/prince charming sweeping off her feet. Is it me or most somalis have become too liberal?

CG I wasnt talking about general discrimination. Even though i personally think that homosexuality is a detriment to society. But this isnt what we are discussing here. We are discussing children books which will be made available in primary schools. Puuja I am against the kids being taught these matters at schools. We are not talking about books where the parents have to go out and purchase. If you are buying the books, you have the control, but if the schools decides to teach your kids these stuff, then i am very much against it. But I am aware that you can ask the school not to let your kids read these books. I recall in my Sex education class back when i was in high school, we watched a pornographic video and parents never knew anything about it, till i came home and told them.

I doubt anyone here would disagree with me saying that a child's mind is incredibly malleable and open to any kind of influence, this series of books is being used to circumvent parenting and any imagined negative portrayal of homosexuality coming from the home. Obviously the authors, and now the state do not trust any of us with the upbringing of our children so much so that they are educating them in their ideals (which I doubt many parents would go against anyway) by this very low tactic. I wonder whether the party policies will start to emerge in our children's syllabus soon. There is no place in schools for this kind of social engineering/brainwashing...Let us not ignore the centre point. It is up to parents to teach their children this, and I rate the UK as one of the most open of societies in the world for homosexuals, yet obviously people behind the scenes want more.

Salaam Has anyone seen the show? It is 3 part and tonight on BBC2 at 9pm, they are showing the final part. Here are clips of the show: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/noise/?id=the_retreat http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/misc/retreat_1.shtml