Che, whether the former regime had popular support is a moot point. The question is did the SNM defeat the former regime. The answer is a resounding yes. In fact the SNM not only defeated it militarily but it defeated it economically and politically. The chronology of the implosion of the former regime supports my point of view. If you’re not aware this is a quick glance at history: 1977 – The former regime despite its clannish make up and wide spread nepotism, not to mention its fight against Islam, reigned supreme. In fact with the war with Ethiopia all Somalis regardless of their like or dislike for the former regime rallied behind the Republic. 1978- SODAF which later morphed into SSDF was formed. Their only contribution was to use clan in order to oppose a clannish regime. This was the model for every other rebel movement that came after. However, they ended up reconciling with the government and were by and large a non factor in defeating the former regime. 1981- SNM was formed. Its opposition was immediately felt. It put pressure on the government with its successful hit and run strategy. This caused the government to lose its invincibility 1988 March – By this time the SNM reinforced its military prowess with political savvy, with the integration of southern communities and setting up bases along the southern border of Somalia. This forced the former regime to make peace with their arch enemy Ethiopia. This was a political blow and something the Somali Psyche could not stomach. 1988 May- SNM kamikaze capture of Hargeisa & Buroa using the element of surprise proved the SNA to be no match for the SNM. Its use of weapons of mass destruction to recapture the major cities that later became ghost towns only showed how it had been crippled. Right from 1988 the SNM controlled the majority of the north from Zeila all the way to Ceerigaabo safe for the major cities which had the army bunkered in. Economically due to the decade long insurgency and the full blown out war in the north the government was reduced to being propped up by foreign aid. This too soon dried up due to the protracted war and the war crimes committed in the process. 1989 – By 1989 because of its earlier political blows to the regime by forcing it to sign a peace treaty with Ethiopia, and the failure of the SNA to militarily defeat the SNM except for defending ghost cities by the heavy use of mines, the regime started to crack. The SNM gave way to any disaffected Somali who did not want to fight for the former regime, thus allowing the SPM to be formed. The SPM formed as a direct reaction to the imprisonment of Aden Gabyow the defence minister who could not defeat the SNM and because the former regime had given up on Western Somali by signing a peace treaty. Other southern communities which were affiliated with the SNM then defected as well creating the USC & SSNM. By this time it was clear the emperor had no clothes. The SNM further used it political capital to get the SPM, USC & to agree not to negotiate with the former regime. This put the final blow and choke hold as the former regime at that time was looking to make deals with anyone who was willing to listen. 1991 January – The long struggle of SNM came to pass as the former regime had been defeated. Unfortunately, not everything can go right as the USC declared itself the new power forgetting the treaty that was signed & the rest is history.

Salaamz...SOL waan ka yara dhuuntay... and I'm not with UCID...UCID has a JOKER for president..but the vice president of UCID appears to be a steady hand at the wheel. I'm very much happy with his choice for VP. What Faisal lacks in leadership, he has his VP to consult with. This reminds me of BUSH & CHeney team. lol I'm a Kulmiye supporter now, but only until they win. This probably means by default I'll end up supporting UCID after the election is over as they'll most probably be the official opposition. I'm always on the side of the opposition By the way from the way things are going who do you think will win?

We’ve got some two weeks to go, but I think we’ve reached a stage we can make predictions. I have supported UDUB in the last election in these pages, but unfortunately the leadership has shown nothing but incompetence. It appears many former UDUB individuals have come to realize this as they join either UCID or KULMIYE parties. I will only make one prediction thus far, UDUB doesn’t stand a chance. This election is between KULMIYE & UCID and as the voting day comes nearer we may be able to gauge who will come out on top. At this early period in the campaign it appears KULMIYE is leading in the polls. If KULMIYE & UCID continue to split the UDUB vote that continues to disintegrate, KULMIYE will win. However, if the UDUB vote goes to UCID then UCID might come out on top. All in all I’m really happy we’re able to witness this turning point in our nation.

Not only was Kacaan defeated and put in the dust bin of history....its shameful past will be broadcast to the world...this is all amusing for me...we got people defending samatar and then they cry UNITY...SOMALIA IS ONE..ehehehe the more they support samatar...they more they assure somalia stays a hell on earth....you do nothing against somaliland..you only hinder somalia from rising from the ashes...if people cannot agree samatar is a war criminal, of course they cannot agree on anything that is right..hence the 19 + years of choas...and by the looks of the reactions both the diaspora and those in somalia it looks like many more years of misery ahead...Ilaahow u sahal... cuqubo halkii lagu galay caw ku hurudaa, caruurtay ka laysaa ninkii caano baas dhamaye

Mr. Samatar epitomisez the very reason the former Somali Republic disintegrated. The regime in which he became second in command has completely eroded the political cohesion and unity of the former Somali Republic. So much so, that not only has it severed the political ties of Somaliland and Somalia, but has balkanized & fragmented Somalia into a million pieces. Just look at what is going on? You have factions to the upmteenth exponent vying for power. Each faction continues to splinter and continues to morph into yet more of the same; absolute misery. This is the legacy of the man many collect funds for, support and defend. Just as many continue to defend Gen. Afweyne. Some times I think, we in Somaliland are asking too much praying Allah to give Somalia a decent leadership that takes them out of this mess. I think we should change tact and pray they get more men like Samatar & Afweyne. I mean many here on this board long for the brutality of Barre. Better the devil you know than these riff raff they echo....in any event...We in Somaliland do not ascribe to defending known war criminals... It doesn't matter the clan...Tuke is from Somaliland just like riyale..below is an article on a program that resulted in deporting tuke from canada along with 2 other criminals http://articles.latimes.com/1992-10-07/news/mn-452_1_war-criminal you can also see another war criminal deported from the US on page 4 below http://www.durrani.com/docs/InsideICE080204Final.pdf it doesn't matter the clan, people will pay for their crimes... mind you most people go after people who did horrible things..like the judge there.. he was infamous for giving two sentences....dil ama xabsi daa'in... you can hark about riyale all you like but frankly he's not on their level...one he is not a known war criminal...simply because no sane criminal is suicidal enough to not leave the area that he commited crimes in...however, in contrast riyale was there in 1991 simply because he knew he had no blood on his hands...he could have easily marched along with abdi aziz ali bare and the retreating SNA..but he stayed in lascanod and back to SNM controlled north within months...a criminal does not go to where he commited crimes...he was back in SNM controled regions of the north within months of fleeing with the retreating somali armed forces... at any rate..if riyale is guilty by association because he worked for the NSS...what about the no. 2 man of the entire country...who was also the the defence minister..& was afweyne's right hand man? lol i mean people...i heard of changing one's clothes in public but this is a new low for some... in any event, he's not being singled out. i believe we've put that story into the dust bin as oodweyne might say..and 2..he's no junior officer...so he is culpable... one way or the other war criminals will get what's coming to them..in this life or the next most likely nothing will come of this case..but having it air on 20/20...have his neighbours know of his past is more than enough...lol man i laughed so hard at the reaction of his neighbours..lol CUQUBO HALKII LAGU GALAY CAW KU HURUDAA, CARUURTAY KA LAYSAA NINKII CAANO BAAS DHAMAY

jacaylbaro, inaar horta maxaad isla nasakhdaa...ina xaashi golaha wasiiradeeda ayuu ka dhex sheegi jiray musuqmaasuqa... isagu wasiirka ganacsiga ayuu ahaa...waxaana lagu eryay markuu wasaarada maaliyada daba galay, uu kombuutaradeedii iyo faylashii soo baadhay...lol wuxuu ina riyale ku yidhi shaqo aan laguu diran baad qabatay taasaan kugu eryey.... so you see, when you are in the government you don't bring out its corruption in the open, you try to fix it from within...however when you are no longer in goverment, you have no choice but to speak out in public...its simple really...waanan hubaa inuu garaadkaagu qaado karo.... but one thing is for sure...ina xaashi is no politician...if he was, we wouldn't have him clashing with every one who came to power, be it riyale, egal (AU), or tuur (AU)...

i wouldn't give up my cell phone carier for my wives. we should keep our cell phone plans seperate. seperate everything

^^ I doubt it. Dadkan jibaysan will be singing viva Kulmiye like JB and AfricaOwn are waving the UDUB Flag at a time even career card carrying memebers of UDUB have toned it down lest we forget what happened with Talaabo. ;)I just find it odd after all these years people are still prone to doing Guulwadeyn. lol As for the the next Riyale lol I think Saylici is a way better choice than Axmed Yuusuf Yasiin if it came down to that. Axmed Yuusuf Yasiin reminds me of Dan Quayle and in many ways Sarah Palin

Suldaanka Salaan Sare, Don't mistake me for AfricaOwn. I don't believe UDUB is an option. I just don't see what all the jubilation about Kulmiye is. Yes we need change as you stated. However, will we really get the change we want or will we only get a different party and a different leader at the helm of the government? I'm not at all convinced the strides we need to make will come at the hands of Kulmiye. Just look at their recent convention. They called it democratic yet no one challanged Siilanyo. That sound alot like Ismail Omar Gheele of Djibouti to me. I just don't see where all this fervent adoration comes from? Granted Kulmiye is the best of the worst. The other two parties are even worse. In that regard, I could understand some one holding their nose and choosing Kulmiye. What I don't understand is this ululating that suggests if Kulmiye controls the government its going to rain daimonds in Somaliland. Lets face it, there are many similarities between Kulmiye's constitution and Somaliland's constitution. Power is concentrated in the hands of the Chairman of Kulmiye just as power is concentrated in the hands of the President of the government. The real change we want is system wide, instutions wide, party wide. Unfortunately, the way it looks like all we will get if Kulmiye wins is an incompetent dictator (Dahir Riyale) will be replaced by a competent dictator (Silanyo). From where I stand, that is nothing to cheerlead for.

Norf Kulmiye haduu helo madaxtooyada maxaa is badalaya?

JB inaar beentay ma aha. Bal eeg warkan tuugta hore u joogtay ee la soo qabqabtay. Kuwo kale oo inoo soo guura taag uma hayno. P.S. I heard qaadkii itoobiya waa laga joojinayaa in waddamada somalida loo dhoofiyo. warkaa ma haysaa. (http://www.shabelle.net/news/viewnews.asp?newsid=1401) P.S.S. Cara 6000 SL Shillings ma yara. Waa lagu qayili karaa. Hadii uu qof walba mid la boodo maxaa soo hadhi lahaa? Hargeysa: Ciidanka Booliska Oo Gacanta Ku Dhigay 27 Tuug Oo Lagu Qabtay Hanti Ay Xadayeen Hargeysa(Ramaas) Sept27, 2008 - Taliyaha Saldhiga Dhexe Magaalada Hargeysa, Maxamed Ismaaciil Xirsi (Maxamed Case) ayaa xalay Shakadda Ramaasnews u sheegay in hawlgal ballaadhan oo ay ciidanka boolisku qaadeen ay ku soo qab-qabteen 27 tuug. tuugtaas oo wax ka xadeysay suuqa bacadlaha ee badhtamaha Magaaladda Hargeysa, oo maalmihii u dambeeyay habeen iyo maalinba aad u camirnaa. Hawlgal ay xalay Ciidanka Boolisku sameeyeen waxay ku soo qab-qabteen 27 tuug oo imika ku xidhan Saldhiga dhexe. Kuwaas oo lagu soo qab-qabtay iyaga oo ku guddo-jira falal tuugo ah oo ay ka fulinayeen meheradaha bacadlaha suuqa Hargeysa. Bacadlahaa oo dadku ka iibsanayeen dharkii ciida. "Waxa kale oo ciidanku ilaalinayeen amniga inaan la xadin dadka wax iibsanaya iyo ka wax laga iibsanayo labadaba, ciidankuna sakad walba way joogeen" ayuu yidhi Taliyuhu. Ciidankaa oo si wanaagsan uga hawlgalay suuqa iyo wadada badhtamaha magaalada Hargeysa. Wadadaa oo laga xidhay gaadiidka, iyada oo maalmahan ugu dambeeyay ee suuqu mashquulka ahaa loo daayey wadadaa in ay dadka oo keliyi maraan. Hawlgalkan waxa fuliyey labada qaybood ee galbeedka iyo bariga ee uu ka kooban yahay Booliska Caasimada Hargeysi. Waxa kale oo kala qeyb-qaatay Ciidanka Dawladda Hoose iyo Ciidanka Birmadka. Ugu dambeyn sarkaalkaasi waxa uu sheegay in tuugtaasi lagu soo qab-qabtay dhar iyo kabo ay xadeen, waxaana uu tilmaamay in sida ugu dhakhsaha badan maxkamad loo horgeyn doono. Cumar Maxamed Faarax Ramaasnews Hargeysa http://www.ramaasnews.com/news.php?readmore=73

Salaamz, Suldaanka, inaar waa ku sidee. waxyaabaha qaarkood lama sheego. hargeysa tuug ku filan way haysata kuwo kale ha inagu soo hogaamin. imika inta qof ee usoo hanqal taagaysa inay wax cantoobiyaan waad arkaysaa. nephyna ku daroo. ta kale, ma akhriday ninkan waxa kale ee uu ka qoray hargeysa? wuxuu yidhi cusbataalkii hargeysa waa bastii. anigu waxaan odhanlahaa lacagtaa iska taala inta la xado cubstaalka halagu dhiso. intaanay kuwo xadoo waxba ku falin inoo iman.

Don't tell me you're talking about Riyale, lol a jr officer. If we start to prosecute the rank and file, I'm sure most somalis would be put on trail. I'm just named a few of the most notorious. You can add on the list, but regardless of the names, they all must meet their maker. P.S. before you get all paranoid, I just mentioned the state sponsored war criminals. I'm sure if u add the after math, we'll have all the warlords up to now, including the current TFG warlord having field practice in mog town. but i'm sure u have to draw the line between a government, and the aftermath that has come after

Did any one watch FREE WILLY? This thread reminds me of that. To which an African American quiped, FREE my uncle WILLY. In the same token, first FREE Somalia from Ethiopia, before you free AWDAL from its self. lol

Morgan is a warcriminal. However, I think the issue at hand is how to get Somalia free from ethiopian occupation and bring about a meaningful change that will bring lasting peace. Morgan is but a footnote in all of this. Besides, you'd be doing Morgan a favour putting him on trail. lol Let him face his maker, like Afweyne and Gabyow and Gaani before him. :)Its time to move on people.

Just like Jaceylbaro was overcome by his sheer greed for money, clouding any principles he may have had for Somaliland, our moderator was overcome by his usual somaliland paranoai that he too lost the plot. I suspect without the tid bits his uncle/family member told him, he cannot comprehend the issue at hand as usual. While our moderator is too preoccupied with Somaliland and Somalia, this newbie is peddling KUFR in this very thread. Newbie, to answer your question Somalis, regardless whether they're in Somalia Djoubti or Somaliland are muslim and they'll pray for world peace without worshiping at an altar with religious or non religious conotations.

NGONGE, I think you're being too generous for assuming the likes of XiinFiniin can see the obviousness of the situation at hand. Maybe its because you are an arab, but for the rest of us Somalis, Nin ay meeli u caddahay meeli ka madow. You only come across as an insane person trying to fill up a vessel that has a hole at the bottom. For starters XiinFiniin can't tell reality from his preceptions on how things ought to be. Case in point "What SL wants or desires which is to secede does not change the reality on that ground that SL is a part of Somalia." He fails to understand, the real reality on the ground is Somaliland a) is not a secessionist state, and b) it is in fact a defacto sovereign state. On the ground that's the reality. The fact that Republic of Somaliland is still part of the failed state of Somalia on paper as it were, since there is no dejure recognition does not negate the fact Somaliland behaves and functions as a sovereign state in its six regional capitals. That is the reality on the ground, the physical, tangible, substantive reality that XiinFiniin cannot grasp for whatever reason. Second, only XiinFiniin and people who cannot see beyond what they want to see, cannot fathom the grand canyon size difference from Somaliland and the substates of Somalia Proper, be it Hiiraanland or Puntland. The very premise these political entities exist, are TEMPORARY. In their inherent design, they are to be "KU MEEL GAADH" ie, transitionary. If as we would all like, as Somalis and good neighbours, and Somalia Proper was to reconstitute its soveriegnty and wrestle it away from Ethiopia's clutches, all of these substates will dissapear. It is not because the people of these substates are incapable, its because of the nature of the states. They were to be a form of organization while the "Qaran" is put back together. Once the said "Qaran" is reconstituted, they have served their purpose and are no longer relavent. Somaliland's sovereignty on the other hand is permanent, whether dejure recognition is granted or not, but the premise is a permanent solution. That is why, we the citizens of Somaliland are more concerned with the SYSTEM, rather than the PERSON leading the massess. This is what NGONGE is talking about when he says, Somaliland albeit slowly, is going from strength to strenght, as it builds up its institutions and continues on its NATION BUILDING. There is no nation building going on in Somalia Proper, whether you call it puntland or gedoland or bayland. If you took the blinkers off XiinFiniin, maybe it is the idea that Somaliland is a VIABLE PERMANENT SOLUTION that is bringing in those in the eastern regions that like any calculated human being want a way out of this mess and this failed status, failed union, failed hopes and dreams. Just maybe, people are evolving to be less clanish in nature, and more about their interests, but I wont expect you to understand. You always see things from a tribal prism. Even the news of the defection of soldeirs who hail from Garowe, to Somaliland wont change your views. You only see things as they are, and there is no other alternative answer. Puntland crumbling under its own weight because its very nature was temporary and everything is about the immediate future, and who is going to lead, and who is going to profit while it still exists, doesn't even register with you. NGONGE, be weary those that like to change the debate when the original debate has been quashed. The issue was about Awdal, and I'm sure you put that issue to rest. Now we have, another argument all together, and how Somaliland will not, shall not, ought not dare look after its interest...

Suldaanka, Saxiib is that the only building Somaliland fixed? lol I mean come on and they painted it white and blue. looooooooool How come you never see the rest of the city?

Dear Bokero, Let the madness end starting with you. While you're still trying to use part of your brain to bring solutions to Somaliland, you're in advertently short changing your goal of bringing a solution to Somalia. I believe the sooner you realize, the Solution for Somalia doesn't rest with Somaliland the better. Inshallah, Allah will bring relief for both Somaliland and Somalia.

Dear Ceyrow, First the term seccesionist does not apply. I'm too lazy to go into detail but I'll give you the following points: a)Under International Law it was two sovereign political states that formed a union on July 1 1960. b)There are serious missgivings as to whether the act of union was legitimate considering the manner in which it was ratified. At best the present circumstances of Somaliland can be described as an annulment , and at worst a unilateral withdrawal from a failed union. Take your pick. Second, I agree with the good citizens from Somalia who are kindly telling those citizens from Somaliland to leave them alone. It is their immediate interest at stake. Third, I find it odd the only thing the proponents of Greater Somalia and those of a Sovereign Somaliland have in common is commenting on how each side is hopelessly failing. It is much easier to talk about the problems of others, than it is to look within. Mr Ceyrow, your first duty as a Muslim is to yourself. Lets all have a little introspection and find solutions for our respective political entities before we prescribe anything for some one else. Let Somaliland deal with its problems, and let Somalia deal with its problems. We all got our work cut out for us.

loooooooooooool you're absolutely right. it does stink what your uncle is up to his neck in and you seem to be condoning it

Originally posted by Khalaf: This is Mogdisho no? savagery is second nature in that part of Somalia....been going down for the longest time nothing to be suprised bout..ps: its the only place in Somalia that is unstable and refuses peace ect ya dig. khalaf somalia is somalia. if one part are savages what is your cousin doing there? is your uncle their to tame the savages? could he not do it all by himself? is that why he is has opted to become first stooge in order to tame savages that don't want peace? how on earth can you say...you feel for the innocent people north or south..when your uncle is directly responsible for the tragedy in mogadishu today? all because he wants his pictures up like a tin pot 1st stooge.

looooooooooooooooool that is real funny...dahir riyale and his udub administration that has been in power since 1993 need to bring something new to the table. unfortunately, the way i see things and the way this poster and the artist see it are 2 different things. you see, if the people are at least sleeping and not causing choas why are they hot and bothered? would they rather hte people were wide awake with ak47 in one hand fighting each other all the while letting an ethoipians occupy their country? lol i'd take sleep over occupation any day

Originally posted by General Duke: Who are the opposition? The much neglected secesisonsits isolated in their Hargaysa-Burco-Berbera traingle. The group who's only ally is Ethiopia, a mere province of the state. No one recognises them, apart from a few confused cult like clanish groups who's complete clan make up about 15% of the Somali population. Yet your tin pot dictator can't set foot in Somaliland yet he cliams he's the president? lol How can a tool who needs protection from his own people, and wants this ethiopian occupation to continue just so he can be called a president on paper have any merit? You're allowed to make it up as you go along. Its easier than to have to deal with reality.

Thanks bro. You know, there hasn't been a great deal of documentation of how far Hargeisa has come along. Maybe if people actually see how far they have come, it will inspire them to take greater leaps to set their hieghts farther. I mean to pull yourself is comendable and very insperational. Please do if you can.