Alle-Ubaahow, ama baxso ama ninka iska dhici . Be true to your signature saaxiib . Stoic, though I read very little about this issue I think you and Castro are on to some thing. Facts are very stubborn; neither Bush nor his party could avoid dwelling in sheer ignorance (they are even trying to fix scientific data relating to this very issue by selecting sympathetic pseudo scientists) too long. Just as they did to the WMD issue . It was good read.

^^Tiijiye waaxid , Yaa ku yiri odoyaashu ganbar bay ku fariistaan? Ganbarku sii kii bilcaamaha maaha? SOL waa meel ikhyaareed; maalinba maalinta ka danbeysa xiisey sii yeelanaysaa. Ramadaan baase soo socota oo koley anigu xoogaa waa moogaan doonaa (IA). Waqtiga waa muhiim, hase yeeshee anigu waxaan ku rag ahay Baashe oo markaan shaqada joogo (inta badan) uun baa golahan soo booqdaa. Maanta waqti ma helin marka intaan baa iga biiris ah. P.S: Tiijiye ninkii yaqaan xaal baan saaray ee ha layga keeno.

^^This thread should be forwarded to those nickel-head republicans in the white house! Bush may not be able to understand all the scientific jargons, but he is certain that global warming aint coming at all . As usual, I disagree with Bush. If he says, xarash I say madax . On a serious note, I am quite certain that global warming is real, but one thing is for sure; we had not been responsible tenants on this planet. Only fool would think that excessive emitions of harmful gases to the atmosphere would not off set the delicate balance of our habitat. What about nuclear waste that we had been dumping for the last fifty years? Would that has an effect too? As far your reference to religious argument and how it pertains to this issue, sound and observable science (mind you) does not contradict with the correct understanding of the divine word, I say. It may be the case that less able minds hide behind twisted religious arguments to bang their head against the yields of scientific work. I even heard when man landed on the moon hasty fatwas had been issued to negate his achievement! Gone are the days of Xer, good Stoic. But to be fair, there are also those who blindly admire anything that is wrapped with scientific cloth. From evolution to the tales of the big bang, those weak souls brandish scientific speculation (an incomplete scientific enquiry that is) that they can’t proof without a leap of faith. That is an ironic incongruity between their cocky pose and the reality of their intellectual capacity, don’t you say? I should stop now...and go home. Waa inoo berri Inshaa-Allah.

Waryee Stoic, be true to your name saaxiib ; wise man who should be free from passion, unmoved by joy or grief, and submissive to natural law (in this case, Almighty’s law).

^^^Leaving me to do dispense aa? War xagaad nala aaday? Well, I will give you last word but let me put last nail on the coffin and say relativism has no place in your faith! Lynch me now… .

Wallaahi waa soo noqdeen.; the protesters that is. First, Stoic who says any girl without Hijaab is gormless person? Commo’n dude you’re reading something in to the brother’s analogy, saaxiib. To put it bluntly, any girl who prefers not to wear Hijaab is not a gormless person but she surly is not at same Iimaan with the one who does wear Hijaab. Any person who does not pray is not a gormless person but certainly she/he is not the same with the one who does pray. Do you see the light now? I hope so. Aeronwen, off-topic you said? Hijaab is Hijaab. Fabric does not matter as long it conforms to the imposed standards. Wear or leave it. it is a personal choice. Some sisters, out fear of Allah, complied with that dress code. Others how ever did not. The level of their Iimaan is not at same level. Debate me along those lines, Xirsiyo-Zahraay . Waxaa kale waa dodging dee.

Falxado = luck + providence (without caps). It leads an entire class of Somali names; Abshiro, Ayyaan, Hoodo and the rest. How could that smell foolxumo, Falxado ? But if your frowning facial expression does even remotely represent your disapproval of it, I would drop it. Of course, you have to PM me to consider it as a full protest from your side. I see. Ms Mernissi not only challenges the authenticity of the hadith but she even goes further and impeaches the integrity of the Abu Bakrah, the companion who narrates it. She is a very daring woman, to say the least. But her insurgence, I must say, is destined for defeat. There is entire science of hadith that has agreed standards for accepting or rejecting the traditions of the prophet. And she seems to have taken it lightly. Bukhari and Muslim are two hadith scholars whose books enjoy consensus among Muslim scholars. Any one who challenges them will face an uphill battle; some people are sent wars that they are bound to loose, I suppose. As for you, Falxado, I am sure you going to make a great guurti woman in SL. I also know that you can easily replace that oldie Edna in the office of foreign affairs. I would not even mind a well-read sister like you leading that emerging republic. But be aware NGONGE is contesting for the top post as well . I guess when can start nomination process in SOL. ------Survives from the staged ambush and walks out unharmed with few scratches on the back (those were Sheh’s, or so I think )---.

Oh Stoic, the prelude of your post is quite erroneous and does disservice to your subsequent opinion. Are you ready to apply the same logic to the acts of worship, saaxiib? How about the one who performs his prayer with the same intent? Do the observable religious deeds have meaning to you? Where are you going with tusaalahan, saaxiib? You see, good Stoic, sincere intent is prerequisite for every act of worship. As the faith and conformity to the tradition of the prophet. But those are criteria for the acceptance of the act; you have to act first though, to even get consideration of rejection or acceptance. Now, when some one prays or wears Hijaab we have no way of knowing what their intent is, no? All we see is that they are adhering to their waajibaat. Agree? A Hijaab wearing sister with good intent to please her Allah has more Iimaan(and courage if she lives in the west) than the jeans-wearing one with equally sincere intent to please Allah. Appearance matters; you fast and you pray and you appear to us that you’re pleasing Allah. Only you and Allah can say otherwise. If indeed your intent matches with your acts your level of Iimaan increases. If you don’t act and show compliance with the divine sharci your level of Iimaan decreases. Simple but not easy, don’t you say? Protesters are doing good so far.

Assuming NGONE has arrested most of the protesters in this thread. And hoping that Baashi’s gracious sequel will as well, I hope, restore some of the civility back to this thread. Let me go back and highlight one thing that’s lost in the rave; No amount of protest, I must say, could obscure the fact that there is a clear correlation between compliance and adherence to the one’s religious obligation and the level of her/his faith. Did the prophet not say that Iimaan increases with obedience and decreases with disobedience? If you don’t really believe that and you think good intent (without deed) would suffice then how do you define Iimaan? Yaa soo baxay ?

^^No confusion at all between the two, but your observation is noted. Please come back, I am in a debating mode today .

Falxadoy, It goes without saying that woman in Islam is a sovereign entity and a responsible human being. Her admission to faith is completely a personal matter. Allah addresses her, not through proxy of Muslim males, but directly to her. Gender is not an issue in Islam. A Muslim is rewarded or punished on the basis of her/his actions. Individuality of a Muslim is principle of this faith. Although sex is immaterial in the verdict of Islamic jurisprudence, the divine text makes some distinctions and exceptions in some secondary regulations. These distinctions are in accordance with both sexes respective human nature. This write-up addresses some of those distinctions. Although Muslim woman played a vital role in the domain of leadership throughout of the Islamic history, it is the degree of her role that had been limited by the traditional thought. It is the opinion of the majority of Muslim jurists that deemed inadmissible for woman to hold the position of head of state. The heart of their ruling rests on Abu Bakrah's hadith reported by Bukhari (7 Of Nine was right after all). But the question of leading prayers was also considered. So let us state the hadith first: Imam Bukhari reports from Abu Bakrah the following: "Allah provided me with considerable benefit during the battle of the camel with one word (or one statement). When news reached the prophet (S.A.W.) that the Persians had appointed Chosroe's daughter as their ruler, he said: '' A nation which placed its affairs in the hands of a woman shall never prosper!'' As I mentioned before traditional interpretation of this hadith, as Hafiz Ibn Hajr indicates in Fathul Bari, does not permit women to hold the office of head of state. This hadith, they argued, is inclusive; an articulate proof that exacts comprehending verdict (Caam), which can’t be retired without it being particularly termed so by another divine evidence (Khaas). And so their ruling remains valid. The method of this interpretation is inline with the fundamentals of the science of Islamic fiqh. In the absence of both Al-Khas (exception by another divine evidence) and Al-Naskh (abrogation), a Muslim who believes in the science of Usul al Fiqh is bound to accept this opinion. Contrary to the prevailing contemporary feminist view, this hadith does not injure the dignity of woman nor does it insult her intellectual capacity. This verdict can’t be logical basis for establishing relationship between gender and performance in political office. That is a weak argument, in my opinion, that can’t be sustained. What this verdict did is to regulate the degree to which a Muslim woman can rise in her public service. Why, you may ask. It is the divine judgment of the Lawgiver and I am not fond to snoop the intent of His laws. The companion of the prophet understood it that way and most Muslim jurists interpreted it that way. To refute it, as some attempted, would require challenging either the authenticity of this hadith (some feminist commentators already did) or the integrity of the companion (this is also done) who narrated it. The third option is to explain in different light other than the traditional thought, which had also been done by minority of Muslim scholars (I have not read how they went about it, I would be glad to hear if one has). And that would just educe a minority opinion, which when contrasted to the thoughts of great salaf scholars would be a weak shout from a distant camp. There is also the issue of leading public prayers, an integral function of the office of head of state. As you may probably know to be head of Islamic state is more than figurehead and involves not only decisions relating to peace and war, but also religious activities. An ideal Muslim leader would be expected to lead public prayers, an activity that women are not allowed to perform. I have not given the time and effort needed to expound on this issue. But, I hope, I gave enough to solidify the legal relevance of this hadith, which my respected sister (magacyo-badan, but Falxado is my favorite) requested. So there you have it, 7 Of Nine.

Baashow, plain speech, as Greek philosopher once said, has been the source of my unpopularity. I see the same quality in your write-ups, bro. Some people seem to be heeding distant calls and beyond this topic, or so I detect. Win your bread; win your bread, saaxiib. And let the cocky pose continue its ranting at SOL, and perhaps out to the world.

^^

I like his rational for not to marry the second wife but only if he could resist the temptation. ولكن الزواج له شـروطÙÙŒ وعدل٠الزوج مشروطٌٌ أساسي وإن معاشـر النسوان بحرٌ عظيم الموج٠ليس له مراسي ويكÙÙŠ ما حملت٠من المعاصي وآثـام تنـوء بها الرواسـي But when naiveté apprehends sagacity, it has a mortifying consequence indeed. وكم كنت٠الضحية ÙÙŠ مرار٠وأجزم بانعدامي Ùˆ انطماسي Ùإحداهن شدَّت شعر رأسي وأخراهن تسحب من أساسي وإن عثÙر اللسان بذكر٠هذي لهذي شبَّ مثل الالتـماس٠وتبصرني إذا ما احتجت٠أمراً من الأخرى يكون بالإختلاس٠وكم من ليلة٠أمسي حزيناً أنام٠على السـطوح٠بلا لباس٠وكنت٠أنام Ù…Ùـحترماً عزيزاً Ùصرت٠أنام ما بين البÙساس٠أÙرَضّÙع٠نامس الـجيران دَمّÙÙŠ وأÙسقي كلَّ برغوث بكاسي ويومٌ أدَّعي أنّÙÙŠ مريضٌ مصابٌ بالزكام٠وبالعÙطـاس٠وإن لم تنÙع الأعذار شـيئاً لجئت٠إلى التثاؤب والنعـاس٠وإن Ùَرَّطْتّ٠ÙÙŠ التحضير يوماً عن الوقت المحدد يا تعاسي وإن لم أرض٠إحداهنَّ ليلاً Ùيا ويلي ويا سود المآسي يطير النوم من عيني وأصحو لقعـقعة٠النـواÙØ° والكراسي يجيء الأكل لا ملح ÙŒ عليه ولا Ø£Ùسقى ولا ÙŠÙكوى لباسي وإن غلط العيال تعيث حذÙاً بأحذية٠تـمّÙـر٠بقرب رأسي وتصرخ ما اشتريت لي احتـياجي P.S: I liked the literary agility of the poem.

Sheh, Sorry for this much-delayed response. Other commitments have taken my time. Your protest is without merit. Although I acknowledged and affirmed the validity of most of your questions, I am not in any way buying your sleep-walk on this issue. You are not raising the bar for this discussion when you dwell in trivialities. Oppression smells subjugation, walaashiis. As I said before I don’t believe women are oppressed in the society I came from. Neither do I think Muslim woman is oppressed at all. There are extreme cases every where (abusive relationships, monetary inequities, and other indifferences). As we all recognize the realities of Muslim people in general and Muslim women in particular do not reflect the values they claim. Why was the question you asked? But to suggest that there is a widespread oppression requires substantiation, and not a mere claim. To ask me to prove otherwise is a weak armor. You see, Sheh you may be painting with a bad brush. I grew up in Xamar; a relatively large urban center. In those days when I was coming up, women participated in every field. Though I came from a conservative family with a strong religious tilt, the majority of those in my family who managed to become college graduate are/were women. Even my aunt managed to become judge. My modest traditional family produced medical doctors, engineers, and a judge (most of them women). Though I don’t believe that the success of women lies in secular education only, this shows opportunity was there. And it still is. It is not secret that most merchants now in Somalia are women. It may be the case that you had a totally different experience than mine. But that is your own experience and does not necessarily mean it is true with most cases. So spare us when crowding your canvas, good Sheh. I think Rahima is on to something here: the great battle waiting for Muslim women should not be bridging the gender gap rather their clausal fight should be dismantling misperceptions and deepening correct teachings of this faith. War Falxadooy waxay Raqlahu? I did not have the time. But yours is worthy the research it requires and I will deliver (IA).

^^It simply means I will address that issue in my answer to you, sister! Take it easy sister. You started good topic and raised interesting questions. I am trying to contribute here in a good way. My opinions are, just that, my opinions. that’s all.

7 Of Nine , Inshaa-Allaah it will be a good and productive discussion. I like your style of debate too. It is mutual, Falxado. Aeronwen , I didn’t mean to piss on your hope. I may be unequal to the task at hand, but I didn’t intend to disappoint you sister. The statements you quoted from my piece sound a bit general (not every secularly educated sister does those things and not every religiously oriented sister does those things either), I concur. But your short comments make me wonder if you are ready to accept partial blame for this. Do you see where we failed or culture is the only villain here? Commo’n, sister do more and don’t leave us in the darkness as what your take on this (that you are partially responsible for this deficit) is. As to the issue of oppression, I reserve my breath for my answer to Sheh. Bishaaro , you’re right they were not at disadvantage, but still elected they were.

The time has come; I am about to go home. So let me leave these words behind. Wallaahi, I don’t know what this essay did to some. It was the power of intent, I suppose, that flushed rascals from their woodwork. But here they came. Not with ideas, but with ridicule and laughter. Scorning is what they did. Such has been their trademark; interrupting smooth going debates with a fusty one line. Annoying it sure is. There was where my quote belonged. But wallowing in mud, it bordered. And as Baashi advised and in the light of Castro’s protest, I deprived Syed from that verse. Intaan danbi noogu filan Ramadaan-na waa na haysaa. Marka lets not bear grudges, saaxiibayaal. After all this is a virtual exchange. It is not real. Don’t let it injure you. Cafis iyo masaamax. Ninka Castro ah ha loo duceeyo inaan daadku qaadin. Aamiin.

Oh Baashe; this is one those days when I seek to repose under the literary shade! Hadraaw's, to be precise. Inta aan gar- waaqsaday intaan, garasho diidaayo Inta laygu gaad gaadayaa, iiga geed ba'ane Cishaday gabnowdiyo intay, gelinba heerjoogtey Girif-giriftu way igu badnayd, gu'iyo jiilaale Inaan gaabsho mooyiye cishana, tayda maan gabine Galka seefta kuma haysan jirin, maalin gulufeede Misna geeladay, gocoraday, iiga gaws kulule Goonbaartu eelkay dhigtaba, gaari baw xidhane Godobteedu waxay saarantahay, meelo aan geyine God markaan daboolaba far baa, laygu godayaaye Nin gefaaba lay tirinayaa, garasho waa yaabe Waxan ahay nin lagu saan gatoon, raadba soo geline Garraantayda qaar iyo, lag iyo, gaasas baa necebe Gabbashayda duul iyo badh iyo, goosan baan rabine Haddaan gaasho yeeshana dar bay, gawl la leedahaye Hadba waxaan ku guul seegayaa, lama garaystaane Castro's my prayer's for safety are with you. Allaah, ha kaa bad-baadiyo. It’s the character on this screen that I’ve reproached, mind you, not you as Ali, Ahmed,or Osman. Meesha ka baxso, idin Allana nabad-gal. P.S: NGONGE, point taken. 7 Of Nine, waa runtaa.

Baashow, Though I am tempted to heed your advice (actually I will issue one), my frustration is not without cause. The provocative swing, as you put it, is a deserving crackdown on the doc-ka-yeers of this site. Seldom do they engage in a meaningful debate. And yet distraction, they do excel. The man had spoiled to many sports, saaxiib. As for the Syed and his piercing verses, I love it. When Ali Dhuh came back with those cheap shots. The Syed had some for him in store: Nin amxaara mooye intii edeg adduun joogta Islaameedku wuxuu i yaqaan ehelu kheyrkiiye Aakhiro albaabada jannaan agabsanaayaaye Asxaabihii oo dhan baan ehel wadaagnaaye Rasuulkii udgoonaana waa ina adeerkay'e Adiguse Abbaanow waxaas urayya sow maahid Sow kii Ilaahey nacay eeeyga qalay maahid.

^^Good one Baashi. But you know the answer to the Ali's Cowardly dent , don't you?

Castro, Actually, the stanzas are his (Syed that is) and they meant to detain annoying characters like you. No apologies are forthcoming. وما انتÙاع أخي الدنيا بناظره إذا ستوت عنده الأنوار والظلم

NGONGE; There you laid bare all the basics of Sharia Law, but you may, as well, be clapping with a one hand. Baashi is 'playing to the gallery' as well. Will see if the lost boy wants to learn. But the piece you penned is worthy the praise, saaxiib.

Nurow ; don’t waste your breath with the likes of Castro; a confused ilk whose moorings have been swept by the high sea. Try to debate with him and you get the usual fusty line. As descriptive (provocative) as they are, the words of the Syed are worthy to note: Nimaan Sharaca diineed shaynaba ka suureyn Haddii aad u sheegtana shaqfadloo aan garanayn Oo kula shikaayoon illeen wada shiddiyo hoog. Nimaan gabayga shibka aheyn misna shaacir ku aheyn Oo kula shikaayoon illeen waa shiddiyo hoog.

I knew it coming, Falxado . I suffer from your cunning snare :mad: . Show some mercy when you pull its binding noose :mad: . But in a serious note, the crux of this opinion is based not on this xadiith but on the Imaamah; leading the prayers. In ideal Islamic state the head of state is supposed to lead not only in secular activities (pardon the loose usage of the word) but in the mosques as well. But I feel I owe you more than that. So let me do my homework and find if it really is the majority opinion. If it is, let’s explore what are the justifications from the divine texts. And let us do it together. P.S: if you want to run you will have my vote (I promise, Dhuubo). I was even gonna vote for this Pakistani candidate till I found out she is gay-friendly