Baashe, that was very informative article, and it supports, if I read it right, what I have been saying all along; legislating is a function preserved for Allah, an accepted sovereignty, which a Muslim can’t dispute. It injected a dose of clarity in to this discussion and I liked it. Camel Milk, I am not sure what you meant by one sided affair. Laws that govern our societies come down on us from above, and the role of law-knowers is to interpret them. That does not mean the door of sound Ijtihaad is shut closed. It just means their role is limited to interpreting the law, and not making it.. Johnny boy, here you go again. As always you fail to understand that the virtues and values that sustain Muslim societies today are as old as that system of governance, which you deemed incompatible with our age. When will you appreciate the robustness of Islamic governance, or Islam for that matter, good JB, and give its dues? The issue here is not about how old Islamic system of governance is; rather it’s about if democracy is compatible with it. To safeguard the principles of our faith is not a matter of choice for us; it is a duty, saaxiib. Get that saaxiib. Juba, I see no harm in incorporating democracy. We just need to be little cautious, and know what we getting in to. With knowledge of fundamental principles and our history democracy will be beneficial tool for pleasing Allah.

Kashafow, the democracy that I am arguing for is not an imaginary thing. It’s, as I said, a tested and mature system of governance that’s ready for our picking. Unless you get destructed by the wrong sneezes, so to speak, or the smell of its western scent dilutes your sense of judgment, democracy, when practiced by faithful Muslims, is analogous to an organized Shuura. It facilitates direct contribution of Muslim masses to the affairs of the Ummah. It’s a perfect fit for our politically intensive society, as Muslims are, and provides a suitable framework for them to participate in the system, and channel and express their sentiments in a more constructive manner. It has all the functionalities to remedy our political ills, and when the right people vote democracy has been known to produce political wonders, saaxiib. I have already cited examples of what happens when Muslim populace vote, and, though you’ve attempted to impeach it, the result of their vote speaks for it self. Whether it’s an ‘anomaly that won’t last’ or an early breeze of political progress remains to be seen, but as far as I can tell the adoption of this system is underway in the Muslim world, and deservedly so, I say. You see good Kashafa, that democracy is a western invention is not the point of moot here. Its origins bear no significance for our discussion as adopting, and incorporating useful administrative tools are encouraged by our faith. And I am sure you would agree that knowledge has no boundaries and knows no race. What is relevant to this discussion is whether democracy can be incorporated and utilized in a manner that benefits us. I think it can be, and should be. As I said before democracy is not a standalone system. It reflects the values and cultures of those who implement it. It hardly contradicts the beliefs of its voters, even when practiced in the west. When introduced to the Muslim world the result has always been good despite obstructions exacted by the imperial forces. The problem in Algeria was not, as you know, that of a system nor was it a failure of democracy, rather the subversion, good Kashafa, came from above. Democracy just worked fine for us or at least the early results looked good for us. It was the west--when realized it swum in a swollen river--that aborted the democratic process and halted the wheels of progress in that country. Turkey is another example where the subversion was exacted from without, and you know how Arbakaan (former prime minister) was denied from his democratic victory. Add that the fact that Turkey has a unique political narrative and historical account in the modern Muslim nations. So confuse not, good Kashafa, the willful sabotages of imperial forces with that of the suitability of democracy and its compatibility with the principles of Islam. Having said all of that, I still agree with your caution about democracy and making sure that Islam remains the guiding principle in our life, private or civic. As Digaale aptly summarized the chief difference between the west and Islam is the fact that Islam concedes the role of legislating to Allah, while the west denies Him that function. It’s a major component of our creed that the laws of Allah can’t be subjected to alteration. The fact that we may vote and participate in a democratic system won’t change our core belief that Allah’s laws are superior to ours, and they shall never be contradicted. The notion that Muslims could, in theory, overwhelmingly vote to retire Shariica laws is not plausible to me. It flies in the face of that prophetic saying that informs Muslim majority will never agree on a clear deviation from the right path. We must, nevertheless, ensure that democracy should be configured and tweaked to our liking. I am for customizing democracy so it can effectively meet our political needs. In the end, most of its symbols---the voting, the checks and balances, and the limited presidential terms in office---will be retained, I predict. So as you can see the notion that we are playing with live ammunition if we adopt democracy and our basic beliefs are threatened is a fear generated by the vapors of unimaginative mind. To not see the potential contribution that a democratic process could have is a clear lack of the power of positive thinking. P.S: It had me thinking why some Muslim scholars are uneasy about democracy while showering praises on the Gulf Monarchies in the name of stability. Misinformaion?

Good points there, good Kashafa, but weli far baa ii taagan. I will come back Friday night, IA.

MMA, After reading your posts about this topic it’s clear where you stand on this issue. You seem to have resolved to side with the warlords on the basis of sketchy facts and incomplete hints. It’s one thing to be against particular ideology, saaxiib, but it’s another to resort to pure defamation, and slur those who you oppose. The ‘Wadaado’, good MMA, are no assassins. Clear is what they stand for, and the means they elected to reach. They are men of faith. They mean good. Perfect they are not, as the nature of man dictates. But good men who attempted to repair the damage of civil war they indeed are. Where have you been, good MMA, to classify Wadaado and put them in the un’waranle’ category? Is that not the peek of naiveté? And what are you opposed exactly, good friend? It seems you and good Tolstoy seem to have been frozen in time as it regards the Islamist politics of present time Somalia. You keep referring Al-Itihaad when there’s none. It’s like referring SSDF when talking about present day Puntland or keep invoking SNM’s name when discussing about Somaliland. You see my friends what started as da’wa activity in late sixties and seventies, and progressed to a political movement in late eighties, and evolved in to an armed militia in early nineties had indeed sloughed to a mature and established entity that wields cultural and political influence that far surpasses than you willing to concede. Their contribution to economical, educational, and, I dare say, political aspects of our society is more than you’re prepared to admit. In some regions where God has blessed with stability they are politically integrated with the existing systems (i.e. Somaliland, and Puntland). In those regions there was no need to arm themselves as it would have been unnecessary and served for no good purpose. In Mogadishu, however, they felt responsibility to fill the void left by the lack of government. That necessitated establishing the Islamic courts. For the courts to function properly in a city that knows no laws it must have armed men who can protect it. It is not a hidden secret that these courts benefited the city and provided security and stability in the areas in which they exist. The notion that armed Wadaado are no good at all is blatant absurdity. Do you not see how illogical your argument is when you deny the men of faith from the realm of piety simply because they choose to serve their community, and in the process--quite naturally-- arm themselves? In the final analysis the shortcomings of these courts would not be what it have done, rather it would be what it did not do, but it could have done. The fact that the courts are dominated by one clan is non issue for me. I judge them by what they do, and not who they are. So repeating the war has taken a clannish turn is a cheap dent for me. If Qanyare’s clan chooses to support their wicked man so be it. Every sane Somali would expect that. If the court’s constituencies happen to be heavily from one particular clan so be it. In this stage of Somali civil war we can’t avoid to have another dimension to our conflict. Armed mercenaries are a wrong variable in to the civil war equitation. Lets get rig off it, I say.

It’s quite paradoxical to propagate this misinformation about democracy as an incompatible system of governance with Islam when indeed it has produced the only governments that can truly claim to reflect the political sentiments and cultural values of its people. It has only been weeks since Hamas made history with its landslide victory in the Palestinian elections. They gained through democracy what they failed to attain through arms. Democracy rewarded Hamas with legitimacy both in the eyes of the outside world and that of Palestinian people. The fiery president of Iran is another example of the product of democratic process. One could find few other examples where participatory democracy has delivered political victories to the Muslim masses. A rare occurrence in these days, I may add, when the norm of conducting politics in the wider Muslim world is either under the darkness of absolute monarchy or that of a brutal dictatorial regime. Furthermore, it’s elementary and uncomplicated political fact that the output of democratic process is directly proportional to the input of the voters. By logical extension if the Muslim populace is allowed to vote it would only elect a government that reflects their values, and hence the mosque, as it were, would be moored to the state rather than detached from it. If the system proved to be advantageous to Muslims, as I argue it did, on what bases would we object it? If we found religious justifications for the monarchies that existed and continue to exist in the Muslim world, as I argue we did, can we find one for democracy on the basis of common good? Do the benefits of democratic system outweigh its mischief? Above all, is there any limitation as to what form (not its function) Islamic government could take? I personally think that the form of Islamic government is undefined, and there’s room for us to shape it. We know the ultimate goal of any Islamic government is to please Allah, and its function is to represent Him to implement His laws, and prevent mischief in His land. But tell me, (any one?), if you mean to debate (learn or benefit) what excludes democracy to be a legitimate vehicle to serve that purpose? I say it is. Its benefits outweigh whatever harm it could cause. It could be justified (religiously) on the basis of common good. It’s a mature and tested method of governance. And the fears of naysayers about it are unfounded. Let the people vote and the majority of this Ummah will never go astray, IA. So I, the good Xiin, found democracy not guilty, and all the charges are thusly dismissed without prejudice.

This is what the wicked thugs do when desperate!

^^Xoogsade, thanks for the background info. It helps to put things in context. It commits to the flames all the propaganda and nonsense that’s spewed on here. The argument of wadaado xukundoon ah a dadka bilaash u laynayaa has no legs. Midda kale I don’t know what emboldens these warlords but it seems they have miscalculated big time. I hope this time no compromise on the part of courts until these thugs apprehended and handed over to justice. It may be dream from my part but I would love to see that Daynile airport taken for good. It has been used for many illegal things, and it is one of main economic sources that sustains for the worlordism activity. Will see how this ends though.

^^So i am forgiven soo maaha .

^^Adeer bal u yara kaadi . Mr. Ismail has indeed penned a solid rebut on Goths apologetic piece. Goth has been dwelling in a sheer intellectual dishonesty for some time now, and I am not at all impressed with his article. An article, if I may add, that seems to have been written to appease the west than to reason, and counsel with his fellow Muslims. Great article, I say.

^^ @Castro. No wonder you took it as a fact than a mere rumor contribution . I refuse to join your retiree pack saxiib. ask me how its like being at where you were a dozen moons ago .

^^raulay abraar waa na shiddeynaysaa . there were no coded mesage in what i wrote. as for dumar having more survival chance than us males, i think not. stick to your buste , i say. Abraaray if that is what it takes to bring good Bishaaro back you know i would do it. adigase warkaagu waa nasoo gaaray. you've led a pack of warriors to register your complaint of that gross insult. I knew you were hot-blooded girl. good job we are very broud of you. ka wardoon xabadsawdada adiga qudhaadu it has no boundaries, and not a married man's medicine as some would describe it. good to see you back.

^^aniga bahashaas baan ka dhergaa , u know there are stocks of it in our kitchen. midda kale qobowga Midwest hadda waa la qabsannay sow maaha. we lived there enough to know eggs and cheese are the best weapon for the cold weather. of course the blackseed comes handy too .

^^ @LG. You got it wrong though. Nafta is one of my favorite nomads at SOL. I am enjoying reading her creative writing. But that does not mean that I don’t tell it as it’s. This rumor about Xiin and Bishaaro is a dead horse. It’s about time to pray jinaazah on it, and bury this thing . Look what you guys did; you drove good Bishaaro away by associating her with a toothless senile like Xiin. She cant even show her face in public . P.S: I know it’s the nature of rumor to thrive on falsity.

^^good to see you too, good raula. Rumor has it that the Minni cold grounded you to your house. Go and buy that prophetic black-seed yaa raula, its the only defense against such a harsh weather like the one in Minnesota. I am sure Bishaaro will come back, of course with strong rebuts of these rumors ala Bishaaro style .

Fair enough. Laakiin Nuunow, waa hubaysanyihiin iyo waa xukun raadis dood maaha. Anigu waxaan diidanahay labada qolo waa isku mid ama waa isku ujeedo. haddaadan saa lahayn , my bad saaxiib. Alle-ubaahane, ninyahow liberalkaan aad sheegeysid xaggee joogaan? sida kuu muuqataba anigu hadda kula mawqif baan ahay. waxaanse filayaa inaad garankarto in dadka kala ra'yi duwanaankaro. addoon calaamdayn sooma habboona inaad uga harto ra'yi gefsan. xaqiiqdu waxa weeye dagaalkan waa fashil siyaasadeed oo ku yimid qab-qablayaasha xamar. waxaan rajeynaynaa inay ku le'daan. wax walbo oo wadaada laga sheego qofkii caqli saliim ah lihi marna kuma eedaynkaro inay shacabka dhibeen ama ay nabadda hortaaganyihiin. waa haddii aan caddaaladda laga tegeyn.

nafta aka nafyar caadi maaha wallaahi But she is riding on a dead horse. LG has made her mark on SOL. Finally. It is quite entertaining.

^^kashanroy, adeer waligeedba waa lays dilayey haddii xaq lagu dagaalamayo is good, i say. You see saaxiib these guys want to make money on our expense. I don't know what few helicopters would do for them when the shacab is the one fighting them. They made many mistakes, and committed heinous crimes but this one seems to be their last throws. How could they declare war on a well established and legitimate entity such as Islamic court is beyond me? If indeed Yalaxow has retreated as the news reports indicate, Qanyare is left in the cold and his would be easy kill. May be this is a god sent opportunity to get rig off these murderers. Their declaration on the Islamic courts now seems to have been an invitation for defeat. It has always been the source of my greivence for these courts inability or lack of courage to challenge these warlords and armed business men in Mogadishu and in essence free the people of Mogadishu from their grip. Now they themselves become the target of warlords political ambitions, the courts have no choice but to fight, and boy fighting they did, and did it well. Of course there would be casualties and more likely than not, those casualties would be civilian. That is the sad part indeed. But may be, just may be, there would be a light at the end of the tunnel after this.

^^ yac , yaa abraar. Bishaaro waa na nacday, or may be work or education, or other worthy matters have taken her from us. i think. the worst case would be if sol's rumors have driven her away. that i don't think to be the case though. perhaps it's time to give good Wiilo her dues and use this thread for its original porpuse and do baafis on Bishaaro. Bishaaroy awoowe haddaad i maqlayso soo laabo .

Libaaxow, what ever you do keep that hal iyo nirig . We can't be nomads without it. other than i found this very creative of you. as always keep the good work, saaiib.

Waa tuu ku dhimman lahaa IA, adeer.

Nuunow, wadaadadda dadka gumaada xaggee joogaan saaxiib? Gartu ilaah bay taqaan adeer; maxaakiimta islaamiga ahi la mid maaha jirrida hubaysan ee xamar joogta. Maxaakimtu waxay leeyihiin ahdaaf iyo mabaadii'i ku salaysan diin. ha iska dhac-dhaceen mar-marka qaarkood laakiin guud ahaan waxay qabtaan shaqo anfacda shacabka xamar. haddaad leedahay maxay waddaadaddu siyaasadda u galayaan, saaxiib waa lasoo dhaafay samankii wadaadka mihnaddiisu ahayd inuu xirsina gooyo tahliilna tufo. kuwani waa kuwo fahamsan inaan masiirka ummadda cidina ka xigin ooy hoggaankeeda ula simanyihiin dadka kale. haddaad leedahay maxay u hubaysanyihiiin. dee saaxiib dantaa tiri. bal adigu xamar tagoo ku noolow difaac la'aan. taa waxaad ku dartaa ciddii rabta inay dadka amnigooda iyo sharciga wax ka qabato oo ay magaaladana kula noolyihiin jirri hubaysani, bal noo sheeg sida ay hubla'aan wax u qabankaraan. haddaad leedahay mar-mar bay dagaalamaan, dee hadde iyana waa waaqica xamar iyo xaalkeeda. wadaadaddu dhaliil la'aan maaha. wax baddan bay qaldaan, waana dhac-dhacaan. hase yeeshe waxaanan laqi karin in adiga iyo MMA aad tiraahdaan jirridda bay la mid yihiin.taasi waa caddaalad xumo. malaha waxaad rabtaan inaad mucaaraddaan waadaado diinta iyo siyaasadda isku walaaqaya. taasi maaha qab-qablanimo ee waa siyaasad xalaal ah oo ku abtirsatta diinta. gaaladu waxay u yaqaanaan asalraacnimo iyo islamist. ragga Bush na waxay ugu yeeraa arga-gaxiso. muslinka fiicanise wuxuu ogyahay inay yihiin mirihii saxwada islaamka. nuxurku hadalkaygu waa in wadaadadddu dhaliil leeyihiin meel ay joogaanba, laakiin iyagga iyo ragga dhiiga dadka ka beecmushtaraa ilaah ba naleh isku mid maaha.

^^^you now realize it's mercenaries armed by foreign intelligence entities vs. good sheikhs, the reps of the people. Rumor has it that Mr. Tall has been on the payrolls of Ethio-American intelligence for some time now. But this time at least the war has some princibles in it.

MMA, ma waxaad la shir timid Maxkamadaha Islaamiga ah baa C/Qadir Yaxye dilay? Ma waxaa kuu siiman ragga, intii karaankooda ah, isku dayey inay sharciga iyo kala danbaynta soo celiyaan iyo kuwa shan-iyo-tobankii sano shacabka qoor-sagaarada ku hayey? Alla maxaa wax laysku qaldayaa! Fairness, good MMA, has become the casualty of your argument here indeed. Truth is that these Islamic courts in that troubled city had genuinely attempted to improve the lives of Mogadishu residents. They attempted to impose a sense of law and order at least in their jurisdiction. They can’t, and frankly they should not be expected to, fill the void of lack of government. But their effort should be appreciated notwithstanding its shortcomings. These Islamic entities should not be blamed mysterious incidents that happen under the darkness of lawlessness. And with all fairness they should never be equated with known murderers whose product is the blood of thier people. To do that is gross injustice, saaxiib. Granted that there are a lot of loopholes in the Islamic courts net, so to speak, but we all know who’s real and who’s not. One could discuss, without intellectual dishonest, the legitimacy and effectiveness of these makeshift courts, but for Allah’s sake lets not question the intent of these good sheikhs, and even worse, yaanaan ayyaga iyo tuugta isku weel wax ku siin.

Castrow, A Pandora's box indeed. America, it now seems, is embarking on a campaign of vandalizing Middle East. She did it to Iraq, and with all likelihood she will do it to Iran. With her blessing Palestinian Authority has been reduced to sheer debris, and hence the subjugation of Palestine prolonged. Your analysis, and the report to some extent, rest under the assumption of America undertaking conventional military intervention. I, however, think that both America and its ally Israel find current international arrangement inadequate and insufficient to meet their needs. They, and whichever European nation they succeed to convince, want to change this. We are, more or less, going back to the law of the jungle. A very cruel world. That however does not mean that America will benefit from such military endeavor. Rather, I think, it will cause more problems for her. These aggression wars are bound to be lost, and so the empire. Reason and dexterity will overcome the brutal ferocity of American hegemony, and we may be witnessing its last throws.

^^Castro, think about it saaxiib, from now on vandalism is the name of this new game. The era of diplomacy has long gone. For the US and its allies it’s about ensuring military hegemony and economic exploitation of that region. For Iran it’s about its survival as a nation. I await your analysis. Time has not been my side these days. But this is a very interesting one indeed.