^^awoowe the tent is a political manifestation of federalism, the political framework you deeply oppose but lack the political culture and infrastructure to affect a change , so you are left to skirt around it and contradict yourself. adeer time has been very nice to me, Kismayo is a reality and no matter how you hate it there is nothing you can do. Barre is my warlord , I will massage him and treat him as the man he is without compromising on the big picture , that he is in Kismayo is a good sign for this project :D When Kismayo is up and hit the ground running, you and I will talk not about political genres and system of governance but about the homes (public and private) and farms you took, and still have it --- the choices you made will come to haunt you for at least one generation liqaye

^^I am Khatumo when it comes the big strategic battles ...for the internal politicking and subclannish competition I care not. So no matter how you pretend otherwise there are men who will never entertain this silly notion of yours. And for 21 years, they are the reason why today you cannot set foot in majority of those districts. That is what reality on the ground means awoowe. Jawhar is a good place between, but on matters of secession they irrelevant unless there is a referendum then we need their vote

Malistar & Daqane, you dream on This thing moved on while you are left with civil war mentality

^^Oodweyne, You know we all support federal government as our legitimate government ---it is funny you openly oppose our goverment and brag about being happy to be under the British Embassy in Ethiopia instead of Mogadishu, and yet still you have the audacity to lament a political difference amongst people who share a political framework . Have you no shame , waryaa Xaaji Habaar, Because some have the control of large PARTS of the British Somaliland you are claiming. They ARE the ones who stood in the way , yesterday , and they are still standing in the way of your dream to secede : D As the last twenty one years show, there is nothing you can do to change that reality awoowe. The average man or woman in Jawhar know very little about those regions. There is the difference awoowe

I agree We are not talking about politicians here we are talking about men who all they know is to organize militia and fight for a share in the resource pie. That is what Barre, Morgan and Jees are --a chapter in Somali civil war that is gone and will not (insha Allah) come back.

Some people are allergic to Somalia's history , I wonder why is that? Perhaps they perceive that Somalia's history sheds light on how certain corners always were well positioned and contributed to the formation of Somali state. Stop the envy and embrace your Kings and Sultans, they were, after all, Somali Kings and Sultans. Illyria is correct in putting Puntland's elections in historical context. Midnimo party is shaping up to be the real deal , an upset may be in order in the coming elections.

^^Jacpher, let our Oodweyne entertain himself with this nonsense of Mogadishu supporting his secessionist aspiration --I think he knows better and understands such thing has no basis. But it is the desperation that makes him talk like that.

I would argue the arrival of Barre Hiiraale is a good sign for Jubbaland project, it shows certain holdouts who has a deep seated suspicion about Jubbaland state formation are coming around to accept the reality that is taking place , and wish to be on the right side of history. Internet based news portals will always do their best to dramatize and feed the uninformed like Oodweyne and co, but one knows that the political ground has long shifted in favor of this new state. Our separatists brothers can voice their frustration of others success and repeat the laughable notion that Kenya is occupying Kismayo but that is just another sign of how far the message of federalism reached. If Kenya is occupying Kismayo , then Dhoobley is occupied by Siralyoone, Marka by Uganda, Baydhabo, most of Gedo, and Beledweyne by Ethiopians (non AMISOM), and Mogadishu by Brundi, Rwanda, and Uganda So one is advised to lay away this occupation nonsense Barre is welcome. Perhaps the plan is in for having former strongmen (Colonel Jees, General Morgan) of the city to be present for the inauguration of the new president of Jubbaland as a token of reconciliation for all communities. Who in his right mind can oppose that :D

^^WW, Raggii aan halkaan kula sheekasyan jirney waxaa ka haray Oodweyne and NGONGE( NORTH inta badan ma joogo), Gabdhihii macnaha lahaa sida Blessed iyo Ibtisiam hadde ma yimaadaan, marka ninkan inaan la gurino waan ku qasbannahay awoowe. We dismiss Mintid, the separatist priest Xaaji Habaar, and Oodweyne's step kid Carafaat, :D

^^ :D Oodweyne I find your opposition to D block community rather hopeless cause ...war waxaani waa 13 million , dad aad la diriri karto maaha, xattaa Odey Xaad baa ka qayliyey Kaftan aside, Faysal is a reasonable man, a rather nationalist man who is very blunt in his writings and speeches. Read his IHAS's report about Somalia, they make very interesting points.

^^What is this sympathy in Mogadishu business these separatists brothers are mumbling about these days? Who said Khatumo needs sympathy from Mogadishu? As for the picture, it is justifiable given the significant appointment Ina Kenyata made for one of their daughters. And by Somali unity , most people understand what it means ---it means the republic, the country that gained independence in 1960. Somaliweyn ideology has come to a halt at least in the version Adan Cadde and Cabdirashid spent blood and treasure to go about it. There is a new dawn in the region as a whole , and it will benefit Somalia. Those Somalis in Ethiopia, and Kenay are more powerful , more freer than those inside the proper Somalia. Logic dictates we cannot call them for a freedom we ourselves do not have.

^^I did not do a research but he said in one of his speeches that he has been harsh on both In any case, even if Faysal did critique both men in a harsher tone, knowing you Oodweyne , you would not accept it as genuine

Chimera;930033 wrote: NGONGE, big bro, the difference between you and me is that if we were in a room somewhere in Somalia with a single pregnant mother expecting a boy. You would keep reminding her that he is the son of the man that used to abuse her, the same man that abandoned her. You would remind the young mother that the same blood would run through that little boy's vain. You would remind her of his clan-lineage and why the little boy most likely would end up a militiaman or a pirate, and that she should accept that destiny, because to you "clan is everything". In the process you would give her examples of the civil-war and showcase pictures of degenerate warlords as role-models. I on the other would inform her of all the potential positions her son could attain in life if she were to support him. I would tell her that there is absolutely no limit to what her son could achieve if she raised him in the right environment, with proper care and attention, be it a doctor or Boeing pilot, an architect or a Karate champion. I would highlight that each man has his own soul, and that the sins of the father aren't inherited by the son. I would give her a myriad of examples showcasing successful Somalis to whom clan is unnecessary, and who have adopted more admirable/profitable and less destructive societal systems to advance their own lives and that of those around them. Your stance is a lazy one, it lacks creativity and ingenuity, for that you need dreams, some attainable others not. However, we both know which of the two positions is more destructive to the newborn boy, You would have the young mother accept the terrible future you painted for her son, which in turn becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the mother after your speech lost all hope and simply did not bother to educate him, or to care for him, or to fight for his future, or to show him love because nobody wants to love a militiaman in the making, right? I give her honey sweet hope and candy rich dreams. That's what a young mother wants to hear, that her son could be the President of Somalia one day and help her countrymen rise from their current pathetic existence, that he could fly for Somali Airlines one day, that he could be the head of East Africa's biggest Children's Hospital one day, that he could be the most sought after architect/designer in the Somali peninsula for new constructions one day. My position is what will benefit the toddler, and give him a fighting chance in a world ruined by older generations. Superimpose this upon the whole of Somalia, and one can see which of the two positions is very destructive to the future generations and which of the two is more productive. Your "clan is everything" mantra should also be edited into "clan is necessary". The latter I will conceed, in a poverty stricken country like Somalia clan remains necessary, but this does not have to be the future reality. This degenerate societal system is barely 800 years old, and most clans can't abtiris back beyond the 16th century, most of it BS. I bet if I had a time-machine and inserted Big Bird in one of these genealogies the current clan-masses would eat it hook, line and sinker. We were Somalis before the clans, and we will be Somalis after the clans. Its an extremely weak system when you peel away the bravado, for it cannot withstand the pressure of a strong state, or a strong movement. The problem in the case of Somalia is that these states and movements came with degenerate view-points and individuals of their own that failed to achieve success or maintain success in clan-neutralizing societal pillars such as education, military, religion and economy. This is why clan remains necessary in Somalia, but it wasn't necessary to the thousands of Somali school children that traveled across Somalia to teach nomads, from different clans than their own, how to read and write. It wasn't necessary to the thousands of Somali soldiers that were a hair away from permanently obliterating the Ethiopian empire, it wasn't necessary to the hundreds of thousands of Somalis from across the peninsula that invested and settled in the Somali metropolis of Mogadishu. Rahima let you off easy, but we both know that the group which was the most powerful political and military force to rise from Somalia since the collapse of the central government was neither clan-based, nor dislodged by clan-based states. It took external powers to thwart their attempt at ruling Somalia. In this scenario, the group lack the visionary principles that guided Ataturk or the Ayyatollahs and the rest is history. Yet their rise also showcased the utter weakness of the Somali clan system in the face of a united transclan opposition. "Clan is necessary", but only to certain factions in Somali society is this applicable, not to the thousands of Somali doctors, nurses, teachers that care for and teach hundreds of thousands Somali patients and students on an annual basis without asking for their lineage....clan is unnecessary. To the multi-million dollar Somali companies such as Hormuud and Dahabshiil employing tens of thousands of people and with offices all across the peninsula....clan is unnecessary. Around 40-50% of the Somali population remains nomadic, and to further highlight your "clan is everything" mantra is a lazy way of stereotyping a complex problem, you would categorize these nomads as a large pool of clannists, because in your non-fluffy world, clan is everything. You would use the various skirmishes between nomads as an example that clan is everything and therefore we should accept it as is. My "clan is necessary" copy-edit is far more inclusive to the real roots of the problem of today, which in this case is watering wells and grazing areas. In a situation where these nomads are introduced to more modern technology in the form of rain-water harvesting, cloud seeding and factories to process and develop money-making products, the clan becomes unnecessary and the concept of violence becomes a thing of the past. Similar plans could be employed in the economic, political, military and social sectors to make clan unnecessary for the average Farah or Halimo. That is the difference between you and me big brother, I provide solutions, some attainable tomorrow others we need a few years to reach them, but reach them we will. You however don't stimulate the mind, you only seek to perish the heart, and bury the soul, because in your world nothing good will come from Somalia, we should just forget about it, lose hope, because its one big clan-orgy, hallelujah! Not me! These are well reasoned points Chimera provided to justify why he dreams about better Somalia ---a contrasting story, the ever raging battle between hope and defeatist talk. If I know NGONGE his silence is a sign of acknowledgement that the young brother has indeed detained him with the most important weapon/force; reason

LOL Somalidu waa belo, gabadha waa loo abtiriyey marka waxaa la ogaaday in awowgeed Taleex ka tagay , saasaa Ina Kenyata sawirkiisa loo soo qaatay. But the caption is the most salient : MIDNIMADA SOOMAALIYA WAA LAMA TAABTAAN

This is quite educational---where is Ayoub? He has shown some interest in Puntland politics. Thanks Illyria for creating this thread. I am fan of Faroole and his keen understanding of Somali politics ---educating the IC about Puntland's history and securing a seat on the table for it on the major decisions, advocating for federalism with a remarkable success hence shaping the political discourse around that issue. However, friends returning from Puntland tell me he has not been as effective in managing domestic affairs of the Puntlanders. But his insistence on democratizing the region will hopefully give him a lasting legacy with respect to domestic policies , and a dignified exit too.

Mintid is a case study for an advocacy that gone wrong :D --he got carried away with his defense of separatist administration's accomplishments

Haatu, tell Mintid, that we have ethnic Somalilanders in Kismayo as well

^^Not really , Faysal had a track record of opposing both Yusuf and Abdiweli , he is very independent man. But that is a good way of diminishing the critique

^^Well , who said xiinfaniin is not relax about this ? You mistake our vigilance lest your desperation to ally your self with the real power base in Mogadishu goes unchecked to a lack of confidence in the integrity of our plans to keep you part of Somalia. Don't.

Illyria, in a single mention of history, sucks the oxygen out of Oodweyne and the entire separatist goons here , predictably they all retorted to waan idin dilnay oo dhulka idinka qaadnay, forgetting the large points Illyria was trying to make Caku nimankan, iyo salfudaydkooda

^^One have a theory about you and Carafaat Labadeennuba isbitaal baad u baahantihiin

^^I told you Oodweyne that polished version of your muscle borrowing attempt is not going to work, for no one will do it for you what you yourself failed to achieve. Waxaad nimanka cad ku leedahay i qaad, anagii niri na kicina waad nagu maadsanaysay Ninku yiri i kici waa ka mudan yahay kan ku yiri i qaad. Waa liability qaadidu. Ragga H block dhulkoodu bay joogaan degmo iyo mid uun baa ka maqan wayna soo ceshan, adigu meelaha sawiro ku gal, ama hadba mid naga mida oo musulafay Hargeysa ku qayishiisii

Mintid and Xaaji are over doing it Desperate times call for desperate measures

Waa markaad qaadi jirteen, Ingiriis dhaladkiiyoow, Kii dhankiise casaayaw Wax badan baan dhereraayey ... Ee xaggee ka dunkadaa I did say, did I not, our feet is very firm on where it matters ---on the ground. No amount of overseas lectures and speeches of independence can change our resolve to ensure Somalia's territorial integrity remain intact. We are in Lasqoray, Baran, Buuhoodle, Xudun, and Taleex, all are historic districts of former British Somaliland. Come and get it awoowe... And we are working to regain Laascanood, and exact arrangement with Ceerigaabo

^^Waranle W, Barre is a saint compare to those we make peace with ---think of Qaybdiid and Caato. Somalia shall move forward , and we shall never look back . Our politics must be informed by our civil war experience, however. And there is a distinction for the discerning ...