ThePoint-yow (war magacu laatinsanaa ), u sheeg adeer that's a dangerious scaffold to stand on.

^^It's also what some lander's, like jaylaani, somehow fear and do not want its success, Saaxiib.

Stoic, point taken.

Originally posted by J B: Now that Nur and Cara decided to have a dialogue i ask the rest to hold back their comments towards Nur and Cara´s positions, untill each has posted 3 posts, that gives them the chance to both comment on the Oponent´s position and put forward their point of view and best of all not to worry about jibes from unexpected direction . thanks! ^^ I wonder if good JB could keep his word ? JB, remember while good Cara has bravely taken on Nur's challenge, you, sir, sheepishly declined and chickened out when the same oppurtunity was given to you. You can't blame Sh. Nur for not trying to ease your labor, saaxiib . Marka let the debate unfold, adeer .

^^Adjusted-skirts or beard stroking has zilch to do with this, good STIOC? Why disappoint us and quote the infamous slips of NGONGE’s tongue then? What’s impeding your mind from seeing that appalling incident for what it really is? It is a warlord stun, is it not? You need not learn calculus, saaxiib, to solve that simple problem.

^^too complex i know. leerka iga jeedhi is another classic of yours, i say .

^^Adeer war ma jiro meeshaan duul cusub oo dhagala'a baa qabsaday. SOL has been loosing its elderly class. Castro and I are the last standing levees for preventing the sediments and other rubbishs that’re destined to deposit in SOL. Nur is camping in his confort place. Baashi geeliisaa boqol gaaray, oo salaanta xattaa waa nala dhaafa. Gabdhihiina intii ugu fiicnayd in la guursan rabo baan u malaynayaa oo si bay u socod yaryihiin .. war ma jiro; waa juuqla'a. Adigu noo warran.

@@Love is for the babies and senior citizens. and here i thought the former is too young for it while the latter is too senile. maxay ii keentay .

^^Weligiinba inkira; markuu idinku dhaco inta TB moodaan anti-biyootik iskala daala . Castro madaxiisa allaha ka shubo .

^ i know good Faarax in geel dhammaaday, but in the land of Walleye, $ is the new geel . When a Faarax happens to have lots of it ayyaamuu kibraa and hence geeliisa boqol gaara .

^^Farah Blue is a good guy but he is suspect of stealing other nomad's chat-names; a suspect untill proven otherwise, that is .

^^Soo dhowow, saaxiib! Untill you told us your difficulties in signing in, i thought in geelaagu boqol gaaray .

^^Too little too late, i would say.

Muqdisha si gaar ah baa inkaari ugu dhacday. Hadba meel bay ka furmaysaa. But i still believe that this is not what Mogadishu Islamic courts are all about. The good ones outnumber the bad ones, and the amount of good work made possible by them is too numerious to count.

Jaceyl aan lagu lawadin waqtigaaga yuuna lumin..~~A ALexus wisdom.

[edit]: Originally posted by nuune: Shocking pictures, Also two people died of shock and trauma at the scene and many others were in complete hysteria and shock as they witnessed, also another woman who was pregnant gave birth very early as she was only 6 months pregnant , a very disturbing images indeed. ^^Ayyaan darro. Very disturbing indeed. It doesn't look good. It is a warlord court with an Islamic gown. I hope all Islamic courts are't like that.

^^But Cara has been long enough on this forum, no? I see no harm in engaging her in a manner that’s civil and constructive like Sh. Nur promised to do. Fundamentally different ideas are to be expected and to avoid an exposure to them is no wise possible, I agree. But good Cara has been speaking more grammar than truth, so to say, and injecting her self in religious topics as of late. In her case, I see some value in engaging her, and I appreciate when good Nur takes some time and attempts to put things in perspective. This is not fallowing a Puritan theme to silence other people’s dissension. At least I did not take it that way. Why not watch the debate unfold then, good Castro? I say bring it on yaa Nur.

Originally posted by Castro: I wouldn't be entirely surprised if many of these so-called deaths attributed to cishq were, in fact, battles lost to Tuberculosis, Typhoid, Malaria, Cholera or many other communicable diseases as the symptoms would have largely been the same. ^^That may very well be the case (cause of actual deaths), but undeniably love do indeed exist. I don't really know the actual casualties of love, but it sure did cause some! After all good Cilmi left with us what could be termed a poetic diagnosis of love. Adigaa qudhaaduu ku sigay ee waadan malaha is ogeyn adeer .

^^ @housed in the deserted former WFP warehouse. It's the former, good Suldaan. And I note your satisfaction with the status quo for ‘the moment’. Fortitude is a good virtue, I would agree, but hatching an imaginary egg is not wise at all. Do you not agree ? As for those ‘remote districts’ whose status you are in no rush to settle, they are but a one piece of the great battle that awaits your ilk saaxiib. There are too many layers to lift before you realize that you are bunching above your head. Lets wait and see. Waxaadan helaynin usii hanqaltaaga Waxaadan huraynin adoon ka habsaamin Ayyaa ka hagaagsan…

^^Difference or not what you gonna do about it Suldaanow? Granted, that the Embaghati lot is not that great, but so is your phantom state? You are selling your last saddle to secede but to no avail. Abdi Sugule’s song comes to mind; Diyaaradaneey duul-duul badaneey, haddey duushana Afgooya degaay, dagaalka Wajaale sooma dayaay!

^^R u serious about this Qalanjo? Didn't you hear Ghamiil's verses about love.... لوكان ÙÙŠ قلبي كقدر قلامة لغيرك ماأتتك رسائلي Or Cilmi Boodhari's songs about it. Malaha war la'aan baa ku haysee cishqigu dad badan buu laayey. Dadka qaar baa weli u buka! Aniga qudhayduu waayadaan fara kulul igu hayey ...adna waxaad leedahay maba jiro. Warkaa dib ugu noqo gabar. Waa jira i say .

Naden, I take no issue with asking questions no matter how propping they are. I am not offended at all. Indeed, for the most part, I enjoyed this discussion. It was promising and had all the ingredients in it for coming in to a full bud, so to speak. You were civil and intelligent, and you meant good. But you have erred gravely when you resorted to expire those two hadiths simply because you couldn’t reconcile them with your Islamic principle. I asked you two questions to clear things up. You dodged and evaded. It’s either one of two then; you don’t understand the process in which these hadiths made to the Bukhari collection in the first place, and hence you take it lightly, or worse yet you incorrectly think it is in your capacity as a mujtahid to revise the Sunnah when you fail to understand it. With all fairness I was not trying to dismiss you as inconsequential. But I strongly believe that approach of yours is wrong. It deems your whole effort incredible. If you are familiar with the rules of Isnaad, as you claim you are, how could you label authenticated hadiths ‘dangerous’ and ‘contrary’ to the very message they intended to reinforce? You see, walaal, there is an attractive quality in being defiant. At times, it is worthy the praise. But when it comes to religion and its complex matters daring may not be the best approach to take. Perhaps one may need to sit on his/her eggs a bit longer before starting to count. A muhtahidah you may be, but you are not handling the second source of your deen as carefully as you could. And one last thing yaa naden, if the status quo means alerting caution against speedy invalidation of an authenticated hadith, I will sure defend it like a hell. Join me my good sister. It is a worthy cause. SOS, Kheyr, Castro, JB, and all other participants lets thank our sister her thought- provoking thread. And lets all (minus JB ) hope that she solidifies her religion and succeeds to clear all the doubts about these hadiths.

Baashi, I am not that far from your stance. But to reproach him for not speaking out is a world away from accusing him to be part of conspiracy. The first is a concern we all share, to a different degree. The latter, however, is a hasty leap, which our good brother (General Duke) took, and hence, the difference. In the first case we are talking about what he failed to do, and not what he did. But in the General’s case, he wants to put the good sheikhs repute on trail for a mere hearsay, saaxiib. HA, adeer cara dhawidaa! Waad iga qoslisay wallaahi. Barre waa stinking warlord in my book. If you want to argue against it, please do it with all of your aptitude. Anigese ha i caynin saaxiib .

Baashi, there is no point in General’s post. Your inference about the good Sheikh is not valid either. Sheikh Xasan is a leader of one of Mogadishu’s Islamic courts. He has been doing, and continues to do, what he could to lessen the impact of the failed state. He has no control what his sub-clan does. The charge that he is in cahoots with his sub-clan’s warlords is a weak one. His silence does not indicate a tacit agreement with the continuing subjugation of the natives of the south. It is all about priorities, saaxiib. One can’t accuse SH. Warsame of Burco or Sh. Mustafa for that matter being on the side of the separatist movement simply because they have yet to make bold pronouncements against it. I think it is a weak measurement. Practically it would not change any thing at all. One must not be a suspect of something for not speaking out against it. It could be helpful if he made such pronouncement, I agree. But he does not has to state the obvious, I insist, as there are countless cases in Mogadishu alone that need be resolved and pointed out. Simply put, what the good General is trying to advance is a guilty by association charge. It is a clannish exercise that holds no water when examined. Mr Yusuf had a meeting with a junior thug in Nairobi. He has been trying to court him for a while but to no avail. To me there is no diffence between Mr Indha Cadde , the man whose conduct General Duke is quick to condemn, and the Mr. Hiiraale, the man who sits on the Kismayo loot. They both belong to an enterprise of looting, killing, and illegitimate conquest of fertile south. One is rewarded for his loot, and the other is isolated. One is actively sought and courted, and other is condemned and singled out, and subjected to a ceaseless disparage. Bal ka tali adeer. Now Mr. Yusuf hardly talks about the issue of Kismayo in particular and that of Shabeellooyinka in general. Are we to take his silence as an agreement? Maxaad ii keentay, yaa Generalle! Midda kale every body knows that Indha Cadde has no scholarly standing. Why confuse people and call him sheikh then?

Those action items are very critical to our discussion, Nadeneey. Your vacillation, good naden, is beyond control. You have not been forthcoming in your last post. I don’t like when you speak out of the corner of your mouth, and make a limp handshake, as it were, with the truth. I would have preferred you be direct. My preference matters not though--I recognize. I tried to explain and address your thoughts about the hadiths you cited. I said they could be explained in relation with the larger Qur’anic theme. Isolating them is not a good way to understand them, I wrote. If one seriously wants to understand these prophetic sayings, one ought to respect and follow the standards of science of hadith. If you neither respect nor follow the process of authenticating hadith then yours is a reckless freelancing that lies outside of Islamic framework in interpreting traditions of the prophet. My aim was to advice, and I wasn’t trying to score. Before I let you fleet with your self-referential bid, let me leave you with the following, yaa naden. To hastily and single-handedly retire authenticated hadiths is a clear sign of ignorance. Calling that a critical thinking is a compounded one; it is a double jeopardy walaal. You are neither correct in your approach nor willing to acknowledge your shortcomings. You want to discard two prophetic sayings to satisfy a mere inconvenience of yours. Alas, and you do it with a particular pride. If it contradicts with a Qur’anic principle, you reason, that hadith must go. But could it be that you are afraid of the vapors of your mind, and there isn’t any contradiction at all. Could there be a chance that this active brain, somehow, got it wrong. Probable scenarios--all of those are--you refuse to consider. As for me not playing the game, I thought I did, and had the ball for a while. I could’ve even taken it home, and cause quite a scene. I know I could. But that was not my aim, as I said before. One can’t clap with a one hand, yaa naden. Discussions could be useful and come to a full fruition if their parameters are well defined. With amount of evasiveness and dodging in it, this discussion is another failed crop. So, good Xiin has called the quits, and went home safe.