^^^You remind me about Mutanabi’s famous verse; which roughly translates: Halaaqa libaax doqonkaa qosol mooda ! Ignoring unsubstantiated charges is not akin to turning the other cheek, as you seem to have naively thought! Perhaps you should learn one or two from that strategy Ayoubow! My positions, political or otherwise, good Ayoub, stem from solidly rooted convictions and seldom do they wither when subjected to scrutiny! Needless to say spinners like your type would naturally have a hard time to crack my arguments. Despite of all your attempts, my argument in this thread stands unscathed! My original observation is also still valid! That being the verdict let me lend you a piece of advice---the reason I came back to this thread. When refuting points or arguing for a position learn to erect your case without resorting to such a cheap charges! I acknowledge that they are convenient and expedient to use! But try to debate without---I know you could. And you should, I say.

Ayoub If that is all you could fetch from that post of mine then that’s clearly a deficit of comprehension from your part or worse yet a poor tactic to win a point! I highlighted my prelude, in case you omitted it out of convenience. It’s simple remainder to our old Oodweyne to keep his math right, as he seems to think that old man’s absence from the equation will miraculously exact a favorable change to his secessionist cause! Originally posted by xiinfaniin: But for the sake of argument, and to entertain you a bit , to think Puntland and its interest in the south will vanish with the old man’s looming demise is a third grade thinking adeer. How could you commit such a schoolboy mistake? Is it because you rascally envision that the relationship between the old man and your political supporter (though reluctant a bit) Ethiopia would end by his demise and hence secessionist’s cause would be better served? Is that how your thinking goes? Adeer face the music as it were and realize that Puntland as a political entity whose tribes are fundamentally opposed to your cause is there to stay! The south and its politics are gradually shifting to new and realist groupings whose political ideologies are deeply seated in religion and hence naturally stand against division and separation. What that means is there are no new friends to win even if the old man is removed from the political equation. By his absence the role of Puntland will be considerably enhanced and not diminished. Somaliland under the secessionist rule on the other hand is sadly reduced to a big zero on the left side of the equation---irrelevant! There is a potential that secessionist political grip could slip and new and practical thinking could emerge out of Somaliland’s politics. If and when that happens Somaliland would secure a respectable seat in the Somali body politics. Before then however you’re watching helplessly a clausal events that could influence your future. The irony of course is you don’t think so! Time will tell what tomorrow brings. Let me leave you following points to chew though: 1- My support for the TFG was greater than Ina Yey. Did similarly for the TNG before it. 2- I see some political value in the existence of Puntland and I take an especial pride in her opposition to all things secessionist. 3- Neither of those two positions contradict my support fro the Islamic courts. 4- What you call H-tsm, to me is a political mechanism that when done right produces wonders of sort in a country whose central goverment collapsed. That’s what I call loyalty that lies in reason and faith! Unless you have bigger tales to tell than these cheap shots I would gladly let you fleet with it undefended!

Waryee Paragon; kasoo qaybgal maansada haddaad ka qatanaan weyedey !

It was a d/p , but since good Oodweyne has promised to vomit at me i must tell him that, lest he misunderstood, i am not here for dirtying my hand with that. Iska aayar adeer ! Secessionist is a failed experiment is all I am saying. It won’t work!

^^Care to tell us, good Ayoub, what it’s that suggests a ‘clear duplicity’ to you in my post? I see none! Af-ka hadalka waxa uumiyuhu moodaayaa odaga reeroode’e Anse ogi halkaad Maahirow iin ku leedahay’e ! Need I tell you, my good man, that familiar tactics have been tried on me before but all failed to exact a dent on my highly groomed self ! You need to rise above this, mate, or substantiate it so I can give you a response!

^^^Good advice @study Islam instead of using the lies spread by those who work against the great faith. JB, intee ku niri sida isku dhaan adeer !

Falastiin Ilaahayow xoree, wey xannibayaane. Xisbullaahi Eebbow ka yeel, xoog la mari waayo. Sahyuuniyadda xaaqaamaquuq, Xaadir baa tahaye. Xabbaddooda Eebbow ka yeel, xiin wax dili waayo. Ilaahayow Xafiidoow Adaa, cadaw u xiiraaye. Adigaa Fircoon biyo ku xugay, oo xafiyey jeere. Qowmuluud Adaa xaaqayoo, rogay xinkoodiiye. Adigaa xinjiro dhiig ku furay, xubinki Shaaroone. Adigaa xab iyo maal ku rida, xaasid iyo tuuge. Jaajuuska Adigaa ku xira, naar xanuun kulule. Adigaa xusuus guurta bada, gaalka xuubka lehe. Adigaa xisaabiya khalqiga, oo ka xoog badane. Adaa Xaramka Eebbow ka dhigay, xero ammaaneede. Xikmad gabay ah Adigaa ku qora, xabad abwaaneede. Soomaaliya Ilaahayow xasili, Xaakim baa tahaye. Allow xiisad baa muuqatee, dami xugaashkeeda. Allow Xabashi huura leh ka yeel, Xoon lax laga tuuray. Ogaaaadeenya Eebbow xaqsii, wey xarbinayaane. Xabiibkii adduunyada unkoow, waan xanuunsadaye. Xabsi baan kufaar ugu jirnaa, nagana xoog roone. Beyruut iyo xinjirahaa dindimi, Xaramka baashiisa. Xabaalaayda Falastiin Allow, waa dhib xoradeede. ... Ilaahayow Adaa xeel hayee, naga xoree gaalka. ^^Aamiin. Beseeching and very moving indeed!

^^How about marrying a deserving and qualified man and being a housewife--- multiplying and productive one at that ? Heck with the world and its laborious challenges eh? Just be a queen and learn how to manage own royal court! Balaayaba buulkaaga laga galaa! Let your stud wrestle with the world...! But on a more serious note, I think some folks are missing the point here as I see no one has thus far rejected education or scoffed at its value! All we did was inject a dose of reality and point out that education though admirable a thing is not the only route to success. Understanding that point early on in the process may help ease the pain of any disappointment after graduation lest one’s hopes as to what he/she can gain from education are dashed! P.S; Amelia, how about encouraging girls to educate themselves first and then become housewifes--- I think modern world demands that .

Baashow--good Oodweyen waa kiis iska waal! He knows that we've touched a raw nerve . His was quite a reaction though ! Look good Oodweyne it’s the peek of naiveté for you to attempt to set up the rules of this debate and expect us to abide by it. What you are essentially saying is since the old man seems to have clearly lost the political plot I, of all people, should feel ashamed of it. I should hide my face with shame and hence shouldn’t dare to discuss issues that matter most to us! How bizarre an argument is that? Are you really serious saaxiib? I am not disowning my ilk if I inform that as far as political affiliations go I have very little to do with the old man and his quest for Somalia's rule. Very little because, lest you wonder, we share a distant lineage! True that I’ve supported the outcome of Somali Reconciliation Conference in Kenya. But that was not out of political conviction rather it was out of practical consideration of Somalia’s dire human suffering. If the armed warlords were to be crowned and given what I thought was the cause of their fight, I reasoned, then perhaps some semblance of governance could’ve been put in place! Governance, mind you, no matter how weak and primitive, that could’ve lessened the misery of my own people! I am not ashamed of that position---I continue to hold it and that’s the reason I still think peace talks are the way forward. Now the rise of Islamic Courts is a source of hope for me! In the first time in our civil war history a political group whose political platform is based on ideology rather than on tribe is slowly emerging. You consider me a remnant of the defeated lot, I know I can’t dislodge you from that rotten hole, but I don’t feel so defeated now when I watch the shoots of hope from Mogadishu! Very hard to believe that’s coming from someone whom you think of as a lackey of the old man. My loyalty lies not with the clan but with reason and faith---alien concepts to some of your secessionist folks. I know. But for the sake of argument, and to entertain you a bit, to think Puntland and its interest in the south will vanish with the old man’s looming demise is a third grade thinking adeer. How could you commit such a schoolboy mistake? Is it because you rascally envision that the relationship between the old man and your political supporter (though reluctant a bit) Ethiopia would end by his demise and hence secessionist’s cause would be better served? Is that how your thinking goes? Adeer face the music as it were and realize that Puntland as a political entity whose tribes are fundamentally opposed to your cause is there to stay! The south and its politics are gradually shifting to new and realist groupings whose political ideologies are deeply seated in religion and hence naturally stand against division and separation. What that means is there are no new friends to win even if the old man is removed from the political equation. By his absence the role of Puntland will be considerably enhanced and not diminished. Somaliland under the secessionist rule on the other hand is sadly reduced to a big zero on the left side of the equation---irrelevant! There is a potential that secessionist political grip could slip and new and practical thinking could emerge out of Somaliland’s politics. If and when that happens Somaliland would secure a respectable seat in the Somali body politics. Before then however you’re watching helplessly a clausal events that could influence your future. The irony of course is you don’t think so! Time will tell what tomorrow brings.

Originally posted by Amelia: ^Will you please zip it? There is nothing wrong with being a housewife or wanting to be one. Infact, I think it’s the better choice to aspire for than sitting in a stuffy office and getting diabetes from the sedentary lifestyle office peeps lead. Education (especially university education) isn’t really all its cracked up to be because it neither guarantees the job you want :mad: or gives you the real tools you need in the workforce. The only thing university seems to guarantee (and take it from a recent graduate) is that you’ll forever be stuck in the rat-race of trying to find work, working for money and still ending up in debt. What’s the alternative I’m proposing here? Kick institutionalized education to the curb! They don’t teach you jack in the classrooms anyway (Imagine my shock at finding out I’m under skilled for most jobs in my field!). Find what you really enjoy, self-learn and do your own thing! It maybe the road less traveled (Robert Frost) but in the long run, it’s the only road worth taking. A close friend of mine constantly tells me that there is only one risk in life – and that’s not to take one. So if you feel like university isn’t for you, don’t bother with it. But do not resort to being a housewife because there seems to be no other option, there always is. ^^I am beginning to like that attitude (with a slight objection to the sentiment against being housewife, of course ) . It’s such attitude, and that positive outlook of life, and not necessarily skills, that would benefit us the most. That’s not to say however education is meaningless exercise---far from it. But it is to say education is just a mere means to succeed in life. As for Vibe’s frustration with school and her uncertainty of what comes after this tedious and hectic college experience, kheyr I would say! You need to understand my good sister that getting education means giving yourself a reasonable competitive edge in harvesting the yields of successful life. There are many factors in achieving a stable life and education is one of those factors. You need it. But you also need the power of positive thinking. There’s nothing like it. Vent if you will, but don’t you doubt your educational path. The struggle has just started for you!

Jimcaale:- Salafiya Jadiida, at least the one in Somalia, is a reactionary movement and there’s neither jurisprudential significance nor theological implication to it. It’s simply a fancy label! Its origins could be traced back in the early Nineties when Al-itihaad’s failed coup in Puntland ignited divisions within that movement. Certain groups within that movement somehow decided to disown one of the most fundamental aspect of Islamic awakening; waging jihaadi war! Absence of a khaliif who can unify and lead Muslim Ummah, they argued, any armed struggle against any entity is not islamicly permissible! Their problem started when begun issuing fatwas against wars that were popular even in the secular segment of Somali society such as the one in occupied Somali Galbeed. Shariif AbdiNur had put forth one of the best argument on this issue that I’ve come across to refute this group’s misleading religious decrees. Of course things have changed with the emergence of Mogadishu Islamic Courts and someone was telling me the other day that one of the principle leaders of this salafiya jadiida group is now among Courts movement! Kheyr, excuse our side discussion within your thread!

Oodweyne, here we go again adeer. Just going back to your familiar habit of posting a sea of words full of clichés and empty talk…you’ve won no points . Granted that the old man is being difficulty now and not behaving as the hardened-realist some of us would’ve hoped he would be but how would that affect our stance of Somali unity is beyond me! Midda kale, realize, once and for all, that some of us are driven by well-seated values which could hardly be veered by mere political maneuverings of current Somali players. Unity is quite an enduring concept and you know it. Division on the other hand is an idea whose time has passed dear. It is no longer fashionable, for instance, to blow your horns about Riyaale’s superficial trips. You’ve sold your last saddle to advance your secessionist bid to no avail. Continue sitting on that imaginary egg of yours and keep chasing your phantom state, I say. If you ask me how I feel current Somali developments, with all honesty and without mincing words, I would answer great adeer. Bal ka tali !

^^Very good! I am begining to like your reasoning ! Salafism is also a descriptive school that adheres to a particular approach in exacting jurisprudential verdicts, good Point. Ever heard الإ ستدلال السلÙÙŠ (istidlaal a-salafi)? What that basically means is to adopt a restrictive approach in terms of formulating proofs in solving fiqh issues! It doesn’t mean however living back in time and ignoring new realities! It’s very critical to understand this concept of Salafism especially when doing scholarly Ijtihaad! People who consciously attack this concept understand what it entails; true adherence to the scholastic learning of that era! You of all people shouldn’t get thrown out of balance upon hearing this word! You shouldn’t view it in a negative light. Indeed I think we should all appreciate the religious significance of this concept! Roots of most fundamental principles of our Islamic sciences were put down during that era. Processes of validating ahaadiith were argued and agreed up on. Theological positions were solidified and settled. Sophistry aside, Salafism is a good label. To argue that we all be satisfied calling ourselves Muslims, though commendable a call, is missing the point of this discussions. You see, you are not cracking a hole in your Muslim identity if you subscribe to the Shaafi’ school. Likewise[edit] you are not doing any harm by categorising yourself as a Salafi.

^^By logical extension labels such as al-ansaar and al-muhaajiriin do not sit well with you then, no? There is no harm in subscribing to Salafism yaa Point! It's a good label, i say.

If this is true, a shameful era has indeed come to an end!

Originally posted by ThePoint: And do ppl really refer to themselves as 'Salafis'? I find that totally wrong. ^^And what’s the basis of your findings good Point? Salafi is a blessed period of our Islamic history. Being a Salafi simply means that you give precedence to the jurisprudential and theological decrees of those who lived within that timeframe over others. It’s [edit]not a label per se.

Biixi don't be a desperate fool now. Yours is a low-priced swipe; a mark of ignobility!

Oo yaan laga ciideyn Abaadirow? The irony is that those who think they are the beneficiaries of Barre’s repressive regime are the ones who lost the most! So Bood-boode is in Cairo now. Good for him. I met him long after I left Hawl-Wadaag middle school at a Mehrijaan exercise in Hodan. He didn't change a bit.

Good Baashi is right. Courts need to talk to anyone who's interested talking, even if it's the Ethiopians. To boycott the talks now is political reactionary that yields nothing for them.

Originally posted by Abaadir: quote:Xiin Posted: ^^Horn, Doofaar ma daahiro haddaad wabi dabaalsiiso Dubka iyo lafaha hoose baa dixiri jiifaayee'e Xiin Gabaygaasu waa aflagaado. Gabayo kale oo ku haboonaa baa jira sheekada meesha ka socota Care to share adeer! At times, good Abaadir, not all the tools you may need are readily obtainable..

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: Baashi, Xasan Qariidi shaqsi ahaan muxuu ahaan jiray horta oo loogu magac daray iskoolkaas? Aniga waligeey inkastoo aan dhigan jiray iskoolka ee mataanaha ahayeen ee ku dheganaa, kaas oo ahaa H/wadaag Hoosedhexe hadana waligeey iskoolkaas in la dhahaa moodi jiray Cismaan Geedi Raage. Illeen Cismaan Geedi Raage dhanka Wardhiigleey uu ku yaalay. Cumar Boodboode ma xasuusataa? Ma'ogi in gadaashaa la keenay, laakiin caan uu ka ahaa labadaas iskool, inkastoo uu kaliya diratoore u ahaa kan Hawlwadaag H/dhexe. ^^Waryee MM, iskadaa Baashi waa reer XQariidiye. Anigaa dhigan jiray Hawl H DH. Cumar bood-boode iyo Dhicisow labadaba waa xasuustaa; Diritoor iyo Fiishe-diritoor ay kala ahaayeen. I would love to know where they are today...have they made out of the civil war?

Originally posted by HornAfrique: Why these baseless accusations now when you have always ignored, and even at times corrected our going-with-the-wind Xiin , on baseless accusations and assertions vis-a-vis Kismaayo and Jubba phenomenon ? ^^Horn, Doofaar ma daahiro haddaad wabi dabaalsiiso Dubka iyo lafaha hoose baa dixiri jiifaayee'e Need translation yaa horn? Charity of sort…but can’t ignore the glaring fact that you are ungifted in your own language!

Generale, don’t be more royalist than the king now. Admit that the courts have achieved what the TFG had failed to attain. Also look who’s hurt by Courts’ progress saaxiib. And if your mind lingers to wonder why Courts are taking their time to deal the issues of Marka and Kismayo the answer is simple. It’s called prioritizing. It works. No problem is particularly difficult if you break it in to workable pieces. This is clearly has been a formula for success. This is how it worked. Confront and defeat the warlords. Lift the roadblocks and open the main commercial channels of the city. Integrate Courts’ militias and bring them under one command. Establish an administrative body that manages the city. Then spread the progress to the other areas. Why Jowhar then? It’s called denying [edit]safe-heaven to the anti-social warlords. Why talk about Ethiopia? It’s called seizing a political opportunity that effortlessly presents it self to you and mobilizing the faithful: your base. One more last thing yaa Generale as long the old man leads a committee of dogs (Qaybdiid, Qanyare, and M Dheere) this Indhacadde argument is not gonna be credible addeer. It’s either a product of utter naiveté or, worse yet, a calculated political trap to draw these Courts in to unnecessary conflict which they could do without. As you can see the good Sharif has started to talk about the issue of land and property as I’ve expected before. Next they will device a plan and strategy to find a resolution for it. If you appose theirs, as you seem to be doing now, what alternative do you have my good friend?

One of many good outcomes from Mogadishu Courts’ dramatic success is that our fellow landers have been remarkably reduced to mere onlookers on these far-reaching political events . Even their sharpest hired-pen (Oodweyne) is commenting more on southern political games and dropped his merry forecasts about Somaliland’s independence bid successes! In light of Riyaale’s disappointing and empty trip, theirs is not a bad tactic I suppose!

^^The country is not at war—at least it currently enjoys more peace than it ever had and it’s future seems promising and full of hope. But to say Sharifs effort is an empty talk---as you implied---is showing resentment without cause. Clearly the man is courageously addressing issues that TFG has been sheepishly timid. Give the man his dues yaa Generale .