It depends where you are coming from yaa Point! If you believe that the Courts and their allies had to act to deprive FT from their potential military and logistical bases -- and along the way exact political alignment in Kismayo-- as I do, and then for them to capture Kismayo without resorting to a disastrous war constitutes a success in my books adeer. It’s all relative saaxiib isn’t it?

Ramadaan Kariim. Thanks Paragon for bringing this one up! That Kismayo has fallen into Courts column without a fighting taking place is another fortuitous-win for the Court’s men. As for Barre leaving the scene without firing a shot, I think, it was just smart of him to have done that. He wouldn’t have stood a chance to defend his loot with his coalition broken and zealous army coming determined to root him out. As history has it now, he went down as another warlord who just lost and whose time has came to pass. I think Courts could rule Kismayo better than its (Kismayo’s) former regime. But it requires from them to be at a level of understanding and to have a political shrewdness not seen before. For instance, they need to establish an admin of locals that can quickly garner the legitimacy to rule for which Courts so badly need. They also need to address the issue of their perceived clannish association by disarming Barre’s coalition remnants i.e. Seeraar, and Goobaale. Last, but not least, they need to get Court’s militias out of the City vicinity save from those who are responsible for security. Once again Courts are rushing with success, as it were, where the TFG feared to tread.

^^^The papacy is clearly in trouble adeer! The Vatican is a very important religious institution, and has a great authority on substantial number of people around the world! When the man who leads it farts like that it becomes an object of astonishment! This is the same institution that has been promoting a message of interfaith dialogue and respect. It’s the same institution that rebuked America’s policies toward the Muslim world few a times. It had a very good track record, unlike its evangelical brethren, for having a realist attitude toward others. This Pope simply dropped the ball, yaa Castro.

^^I didn’t hear the Morgan part …that would be interesting though! But come’n Generale, the security of Mogadishu is not remotely near what it was under the rule of warlords! I give you a failing D on that. Politics is bit murky though you’re right but not as foggy as it was before the Courts assumed power! There wasn’t a single entity that could talk about and decide the fate of that city. The lack of central control on Mogadishu then was part of what caused political stagnation in the south. Even the outside world could appreciate that fact saaxiib. This you get an F for missing it! As for the said regions being awash with weapons that could as well be the case but on whom do you blame it? Do you blame it on Puntland for facilitating Ethiopia and its sponsored warlords via Galkacyo such as criminal Qaybdiid, or do you blame it on the TFG for its adversarial role and inviting unnecessarily Ethiopian and pursuing dead-end policy of bringing foreign troops, or do you just see what Islamic Courts do as a reaction to an obvious hostile act from the other side? Which one is it adeer? ^^Never mind that as it's a rhetorical question . Let me put it differently though, and with a bit of moral clarity: why the Islamic Courts didn’t wage an open war (a righteous one at that) against the said groups/personalities? The answer is very simple saaxiib, and quite elementary at that, for with Ethiopia amassing troops at Baydhabo, defeated warlords regrouping and getting helping from regions that are not part of the current Mogadishu equation, Islamic Courts are left with a very limited choice as to what to do militarily and politically. These men are no fools. How could one start a war of choice when a much bigger conflict is brewing on the horizon? Whatever hopes was there to clean the southern theater from the thugs were dashed by the unwise reaction by the TFG and Puntland. Blame it on them---the TFG that is! As for who are these courts …well that’s a rhetorical question. It must be!

^^The irony of the Pope’s speech is that it’s meant to moderate excesses done in the name of liberal modernity! Instead of pointing out the obvious errors of today’s secular society and its sheer emptiness of anything religion, he ironically resorted to a cheap line, a fusty one at that, and showed a deep contempt toward both the message and the character of our prophet, prophet Muhhamad (scw)! More interestingly, I find his choice of words and the quotes he used to support his point about jihad quite revealing! Why choose words of Christian emperor whose era was the darkest in the Christian-Islam relations. Why refresh Mulsim memories about savages of crusaders? I normally have a respect for the men of faith, and find their messages about the decadency of western civilization generally agreeable. But for the man who presides the Vatican to descend this low and think he could get away with it is beyond naivety! The least Muslims could do is to insist on a personal apology from him. As for Nur’s point about Pope’s blunder working to our advantage, I am not sure. It’s quite natural, and generally expected, for Muslims to rally and unite when the character of our prophet is attacked or one of our religious teachings mocked but what advantage would that give us, is not clear and is rather wanting further illumination. I personally would like to see the correlation between conversion rates and negative high-powered speeches/events on our faith. I have heard stories about the September the Eleventh and how it caused upward increase in the number of Americans converting to Islam!

The Point, you’re a bit tightlipped . I agree with your building blocks model though unless of course it mimics that of Ethiopia and the UN. Generalow, what answers are you looking for ? What points have you made apart from your wholesale indictment of Mogadishu Islamic Courts? To be frank, what you wrote, my good brother, was irrelevant to the debate we are having (or at least the one I intend to have)! I can’t possibly make the thesis of this thread about discussing who in Islamic Courts leadership belongs to what clan and who’s married to whose daughter! That would be descending of sort---I hope you would agree. Lets not go down that path then saaxiib. You need to understand my point before you hastily refute it: have Islamic Courts brought fundamental changes (political and security) relative to Somalia’s politics? I say yes. Islamic Courts have altered the politics in the south, as we knew saaxiib. In the first time for some time now, a political entity driven by ideology rather than tribal affiliation succeeded to assume power in one of the most important city in Somalia. Their frame of reference is different than the other dominant functions and political entities; religion vs. secularism. Don’t get me wrong as there are many across Somalia’s different regions who’re fully pregnant with similar ideas, but it’s the Courts who delivered those Islamist (for the lack of a better word) political convictions and gave birth this movement that swept in the south. You can clearly see how the tsunami they caused as it were shook the foundation of that federal project in Baydhabo; names like Ghedi, Aydid, and Qanyare who, not-so-long ago were the object of pride in Mogadishu, are today disowned with fervor; lesser known warlords are humbled or driven and sought refuge in far away regions; Ethiopia and its cronies are made to shiver in the cold as their agenda for Somalia became clear and obvious for all concerned, and above all, IGAD’s unity on Somalia got undermined as a result of realization from its part that something that could fundamentally alter their original plans has happened in Mogadishu. Yesterday the argument of foreign troops had no merit as Mogadishu warlord’s protest lacked credibility. Today Islamic Courts, with their record in Mogadishu, have an undeniable political weight to state their opposition with credence! Yesterday Ethiopia’s interest were sailing virtually unopposed, today it’s struggling to convince the old man, its staunchest supporter, to stay the course (proof: Ethiopian FM spending two nights in dusty Baydhabo)! I could list more points to highlight changes brought by Islamic Courts political or otherwise but I need not state the obvious as I suspect--sophistry aside--that you would nod in agreement with me on most part. What you are not doing though is to speak with a voice not cracked with emotions and to discern facts from unsubstantiated rumors! I am sure you heard me before saying this, but I would say it again, Indhacadde and his likes are a problem for the courts---a problem whose resolution has not come yet. As men of religion they can’t afford to be perceived aiding the aggressor and it will be a lit-mutest for whether they can swim Somalia’s clan invested waters so to speak without muddying own garments with it. But I am still willing to give them benefit of the doubt for two reasons. For one, their alliance with Indhacadde is a one of a military necessity and the reasons that necessitated it are still there; it’s rooted in convenience rather than conviction. Secondly, the issues of Shabeellooyinka and Jubbooyinka predate Islamic Courts and it would be unfair to put its blame on their shoulders. That’s to say that as I was willing to swallow my pride and accept a government of warlords in the hope it may one day succeed and in the realization that some of form of government is better than none, I also am willing to support these Courts with their shortcomings in the conviction that they are better than ones I have seen before, and their mishaps are easier to correct than TFG’s. The first owns its process, mind you, while the latter is someone else’s cat’s-paw and hence my hope this time around is not grounded in vain. Or so I hope! These men are real; lets whisper old man’s ear that useful point. Redka, my association with Puntland is twofold: ancestral relationship with the place and a conviction that its political model was the way to go. Theirs has some appealing wisdom; it’s moderation between secessionist’s political snoot and South’s mayhem and political breakdown. Unfortunately, lately Puntland has become the old man’s political tool and I feel like the whole region is used as a down payment for his failed project---TFG. As for you pinning me down as a Buuhoodle boy, you are many miles off , I say. Xoogga, thanks for your kind words saaxiib. I think it’s only fair to study current situation and leave the future for the One Who knows it best. Castro, I think your caution as well as that of Che’s are warranted. After all, Somali politics are fluid in nature!

^^Who’s comparing what and with whom, saaxiib? Reducing the whole Islamic Courts to a mafia-like group brought together by clannish and marital connections is beyond conspiracy---it’s like the typical Starbuck talk that I’ve accustomed hearing lately. I believe there’s much more to Islamic Courts than that caricature you depicted. Drop this hostile posture of yours and be more objective. In politics or otherwise, no entity can function in a flawless manner. Critique if you wish but acknowledge the good that’s done!

Generale , comparing Puntland to the Islamic Courts is just missing the point adeer. They are based on two different modalities and brought by different political circumstances. The gist of my point is to conform to the actualities on the ground, and stop deluding ourselves in thinking opposing this movement is the way to go! No matter how loud you shout from the top of your lungs to highlight Islamic Court’s supposed clannish affiliation, and link them to atrocities and grievances that predates their emergence, Islamic Courts are here to stay! Significant portion of land, very important land that is, is under their direct rule, and equally important areas are within their sphere of influence. I can easily concede a point or two to your assertions of their incompetence to address the issues of Shabeelooyinka and Jubbooyinka (although you have been less forthcoming about your stance on the Kismayo rape) but what I can’t do is indict the whole movement and the positive changes they brought on a mere clannish charges. To steer this debate and center it on a questionable characters associated with the Islamic Courts is a dishonest of sort, intellectual dishonest to be sure! TFG is composed with worse men whose integrity is easily impeachable and whose background is dyed with spills of Somali blood. Yet you find no difficulties to support them when they right—and when they are not so right . You need to extend that same courtesy to this one adeer. And remember that one needs to go beyond personalities and dare address bigger points if one means to engage in a meaningful debate. What have these men done differently (forget their clan for a minute) than the warlords they replaced? Do they have better ideas than the men who continue to dominate TFG? Do they deserve a chance to rule without conspiring to exact their demise, often with the help of foreign entities? If the TFG continue on the route they started to take which’s essentially undermining Islamic Courts changes and assuming adversarial role instead of capitalizing opportunities that were presented to them, what would you think the outcome would be? What are the priorities yaa Generale: addressing the issues of Shabeelooyinka and Jubbooyinka before securing national arrangement and platform for reconciliation, or working on achieving broader settlements to effect peace and security in the south? ^^These are but few questions that deserve, at least some reflection from you, and from me as well? Paragon, I beg to differ from your take on this issue. The notion that what happened in Mogadishu needs be replicated in Puntland and Somaliland is equally missing the point. That, I hold, is neither necessary now nor feasible in the near future. Puntland is in a dire need for reform, to be sure, but the methods of bringing that reform should never be erecting makeshift courts within already functioning entity however corrupt saaxiib. That’s a recipe for conflict and instability. The ingredients that made Islamic Court’s success possible in Mogadishu are entirely missing or scarcely present in Puntland’s political settings. What I am arguing for is not to spark a courts movement in Puntland rather I am attempting (poorly I now realize) to highlight some delusions in some circles that assert these Courts are just clannishly motivated and will soon vanish as others before them. I am saying current trends lead to an entirely different conclusion: Kheyr aan la baddali karin baa Xamar ka dhacay . Xoogsade, you and good Paragon need to do better than that adeer ! It’s not cheap to get to the top of Puntland’s political summit. I need a lot of money, and more of it indeed, to get there. edit: Che, although I admire your caution you still seem to be wearing wrong lenses adeer.

The emergence of Islamic Courts in Mogadishu has fundamentally altered Somalia’s political settings. By defeating well armed warlords who successfully prevented any government to form and maintained their grip on Mogadishu for the good part of last two decades, Islamic Courts achieved a quick (one might say accidental) victory. Soon they embarked on a security and political campaign to reverse what has been the norm in the south throughout the civil war era; chaos and anarchy. First time since the fall of Somali state, Mogadishu is run today by one political and security entity, its main commercial channels are safe and operational, and above all peace reigns supreme in Mogadishu’s infamous aisles of death. Despite attention-grapping news headlines resulting from a deliberate media framing to defame and vilify what these men have done, Mogadishu’s Islamic Courts has surprisingly commenced with a triumph note on its local achievements. Any casual observer who assesses them holistically could attest their successful pacification of Mogadishu, a city so complex that even great powers of our time failed to overcome its deadly intricacies. But what’s more astonishing than that is how rapidly this organization managed to get handle on its political track. They moved, simultaneously, on two front political arrangements, and with all indications, seem to have succeeded on both! On a one hand, Islamic Courts are engaged in a political process with their subjects in Mogadishu to find consensus on their policies and legitimize particular security operations. On the other hand, they are involved with a marked passion with the TFG, albeit through third party venue, to reach a negotiated settlement for Somalia’s long-drawn-out and costly civil war. On both fronts, they come across as a clever and reasonable bunch. Their emergence also resurrected and, and in essence, emitted a new life into Mogadishu’s silent majority community. If we were accustomed to see scenes of armed nomads stripping buildings naked and gutting and trampling private and public premises, today with Islamic Courts we instead see and witness different dynamics of social renewal beginning to emerge. Learned scholars and educated expatriates are rushing back in, not with cash to buy more weapons, but with ideas and initiatives. Entire block of Somalis who didn’t have political voice before now feel that they can make a difference and their ideas worth something. Moreover, the sense of purpose and unity in Mogadishu is a clear contrast to the not-so-distant era that preceded it. When you look at these trends (chaos city pacified and people, both in side and out side, feeling that they can make difference on the ground) you clearly see that something fundamental has changed in southern politics. Something that’s irreversible, that is. When the cries of war abate and clannish emotions subside, reasonable people would agree that the day when Mogadishu warlords were utterly defeated marked a political turning point in our contemporary Somali history. Needlessly to say those who still wear pre Islamic Courts lenses to view Somali politics will be greatly mistaken, and their effort to foolishly welcome defeated warlords and host them in their land , in essence to sow dragon's teeth, will be in sure vain. Islamic Courts is fait accompli, i say!

^^Age my be a barrier for you adeer...i think you need to grow some grey hair before you start caryying an imaginary minyaro-list .

^^If I take the said DNA test I doubt that I would fair better than Castro ! So you are not alone saaxiib!

^^LOL@ D gene. And how I could forget your famous utterance! My bad adeer! And yes it’s easy for some to gloss their weakness with convenient labels but waa ciddii u baxda. Che, you are a flaming traitor…you must be lynched publicly . Where are the Puntlanders today? minus I, that is .

^^A one who is particularly concern with internal affairs of Puntland! Like he sees well-developed Puntland that has the type of leadership it deserves in his dreams. Are you one?

^^Haddaad haysaa yaa Bishy . Masjidka noo ballan ah IA (habaar maaha ee ogow) . Castro, who, like me, keeps an imaginary list of minyaro, would go hunting at the movies and come back empty-handed--- allow yaa wax u sheega !

^^My talk is not about whatever modesty achievement Puntlanders attained under those harsh conditions yaa Castro; rather it’s what they could’ve achieved with better leadership than they currently have! And yes I am impeaching their current leadership on the basis of sheer incompetence and treacherous betrayal of grand Somali concepts! Who’s paying you today yaa Castro ? Or you pulling my legs as you often do with ease? edit: I need a genuine Puntlander who can speak to the point I raised. Castro is just pretending .

^^I say it’s a fair analysis of that entity’s leadership! a Harsh sentiment to be sure, but a one that houses a politially germane point ! edit: are you a Puntlnader yaa Castro ?

The intellectually bankrupt bunch that has been leading Puntland for a while is coming to a dead-end! The notion that an entire political entity would bank its security on Ethiopia’s help and interference in other Somali regions sounds very retarded to me! Competing for Ethiopia’s allegiance and loyalty has been a major political trademark in both Puntland and Somaliland. liid, I say. If Somaliland’s secessionists are guilty of on capitalizing Somalia’s decomposing body, Puntland’s militaristic leadership is guilty of duplicity and betrayal in the effort of reviving Somali State! That’s very liid, indeed and Cadde, with whose pictures we are constantly bombarded, leads it. The land of Punt as it were is ripe for a sweeping reform. The question is : who can bring that change in a timely manner?

Originally posted by -Serenity-: Be honest Xiin , you realized you cant get them. ^^There's some truth to that. But there were other factors as well. To have the sheer thought of it was taking a calculating risk to begin with. Remember I haven’t dropped’em off the list yet—I just gently stroke their names through ! Hence note the distinction, yaa Qalanjo!. edit: Kor baan ka ilaashadaa.

^^As you noticed the man is a full Caarif now! Only if he could load some of that mystic stuff off his chest and sprinkle a little bit onto SOL!

^^Kharyorw, would you connect the dots as to why you think these bolded parts of the poem are quite fitting a response ‘when you read the post’, as you said.

LOL@Bishy and Rahima. Both of you have once been on my minyaro-list . That much i admit! But as i grew older and wiser, i've come to a painful conclusion: you deserve someone better than xiin ! As for Mr. Piyeekh envying us old boys, i can safely assert that when the bush comes to shove, old men would win hands down---effortlessly. Ha daalin adeer; harag shabeel haad ma fuusho , as the Somali adage goes.

^^Waa gartay; posting it for its sheer beauty. I thought it was another Sufi gimmick!

America's Ideologue in Chief by Patrick J. Buchanan . "The war we fight today is more than a military conflict," said President Bush to the American Legion. "It is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century." But if the ideology of our enemy is "Islamofascism," what is the ideology of George W. Bush? According to James Montanye, writing in The Independent Review, it is "democratic fundamentalism." Montanye borrows Joseph Schumpeter's depiction of Marxism to describe it. Like Marxism, he writes, democratic fundamentalism "presents, first, a system of ultimate ends that embody the meaning of life and are absolute standards by which to judge events and actions; and, secondly, a guide to those ends which implies a plan of salvation and the indication of the evil from which mankind, or a chosen section of mankind, is to be saved. … It belongs to that subgroup [of 'isms'] which promises paradise this side of the grave." Ideology is substitute religion, and Bush's beliefs were on display in his address to the Legion, where he painted the "decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century" in terms of good and evil. "On the one side are those who believe in the values of freedom … the right of all people to speak, and worship, and live in liberty. And on the other side are those driven by the values of tyranny and extremism, the right of a self-appointed few to impose their fanatical views on all the rest." Casting one's cause in such terms can be effective in wartime. In his Gettysburg Address and Second Inaugural, Lincoln converted a war to crush Southern secession into a crusade to end slavery and save democracy on earth. Wilson recast a European war of imperial powers as a " war to end war" and "make the world safe for democracy." FDR and Churchill in the Atlantic Charter talked of securing "the Four Freedoms," but were soon colluding to hand over Eastern Europe to the worst tyrant and mass murderer of the 20th century. The peril of ideology is that it rarely comports with reality and is contradicted by history, thus leading inevitably to disillusionment and tragedy. Consider but a few of the assertions in Bush's address. Said Bush, we know by "history and logic" that "promoting democracy is the surest way to build security." But history and logic teach, rather, what George Washington taught: The best way to preserve peace is to be prepared for war and to stay out of wars that are none of the nation's business. "Democracies don't attack each other or threaten the peace," said Bush. How does he then explain the War of 1812, when we went to war against Britain, when she was standing up to Napoleon? What about the War Between the States? Were not the seceding states democratic? What about the Boer War, begun by the Brits? What about World War I, fought between the world's democracies, which also happened to be empires ruling subject peoples? In May 1901, a 26-year-old Tory member of Parliament rose to issue a prophetic warning: "Democracy is more vindictive than Cabinets. The wars of peoples will be more terrible than the wars of kings." Considering the war that came in 1914 and the vindictive peace it produced, giving us Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, and Hitler, was not Churchill more right than Bush? "Governments accountable to the people focus on building roads and schools – not weapons of mass destruction," said Bush. But is it not the democracies – Israel, India, Britain, France, the United States – that possess a preponderance of nuclear weapons? Are they all disarming? Were not the Western nations first to invent and use poison gas and atom bombs? Insisting it is the lack of freedom that fuels terrorism, Bush declares, "Young people who have a say in their future are less likely to search for meaning in extremism." Tell it to Mussolini and the Blackshirts. Tell it to the Nazis, who loathed the free republic of Weimar, as did the communists. "Citizens who can join a peaceful political party are less likely to join a terrorist organization." But the West has been plagued by terrorists since the anarchists. The Baader-Meinhoff Gang in Germany, the Red Brigades in Italy, the Puerto Ricans who tried to kill Harry Truman, and the London subway bombers were all raised in freedom. "Dissidents with the freedom to protest around the clock," said the president, "are less likely to blow themselves up at rush hour." But Hamas and Islamic Jihad resort to suicide bombing because they think it a far more effective way to overthrow Israeli rule than marching with signs. What Bush passed over in his speech is that it is the autocratic regimes in Cairo, Riyadh, and Amman that hold back the pent-up animosity toward America and Israel, and free elections that have advanced Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power. In Iraq, we see the inevitable tragedy of ideology, of allowing some intellectual construct, not rooted in reality, to take control of the minds of men. Source.

^^^ all hammer, no nail has zilch to do with any gratification. It's just a synonym, and has a similar meaning to Pierre's cited Texas saying all hat and no cattle, yaa Bishy . P.S: Caawa SOL aan waardiyo ka ahay.

^^It has no deeper meaning awoowe...it's just funny loughable words off the net! edit: Don’t rush with assumptions good Pierre (sounds very French btw), and try to tread with caution.