Originally posted by Brown: Waxaan alle baa qoray & inshallah he has a reason for doing this, I am sure he means for the good for ummada somaliyeed. Marka keep hope alive always. You are a honourble,principled & a patriotic Somali. You stood for what you believe in & vehemently defended it. You are also very eloquent & constructively cool. You da man bey dhahaan. Alutta continua!! :cool: I second that yaa Brown! On the outset of the emergence of ICU, Paragon recognized and supported them. With all the anomalies and questionable characters in their midst, he defended them and gave them the benefit of the doubt for he recognized the alternatives were far worse; supporting warlords and puppets in the tfg! With his favorable judgments on the icu, the man has shown a great character that’s atypical in our Somali kind! May Allah keep you in his company wherever you are yaa Paragon!

Good one yaa Che!

Confused would be understatement adeer! Aad baad u shiddeysantahay ! The issue is one of a legitimacy and reppelion; they repelled against the true and appointed Imaam of Muslims! To equate icu to khawaarij is beyond confusion. Even worse, to equate ina Yusuf to Ali or Othman is madness! edit: Castro, thats a good suggestion and IA i will open a thread about it! Because the real challenge is not Ina Yusuf or any other Ethiopian supported strong man in Somalia, the real issue is how we can address the root couse of our prolonged conflict: Ethiopia!

And you thought that [edit]needed a response? Do you know what khawaarih means yaa Khalaf? Did you understand the two questions i asked him?

^^Which of 'these movements' are you referring to yaa Khalaf?icu?Khawaarij?xammas?xizbu-Allaah?al-qaida?

^^I think you got it wrong;Ethiopia asked tfg's and America's assistance and got it! tfg has been asking assistance for some time now and still didnot get it! tfg is usefull tool for Ethiopia, so is Somaliland and Puntland! what can we do about it? War yaa soo baxay oo su'aashaa isku daya?

Originally posted by Sheikh Fiqqikhayre: I challenge Xiin for a debate at a time of his choosing inshallah! Xiin choose your time and we should discuss in this thread or another inshallaah in the audience of this gallery being or witness! Bring forth your arguments I want a live discussion with you! Fiqi, In your logic AQasim was the Amiirul mu’muniin and since adeer Cabdulle opposed him and conspired against him with Ethiopia, he should had been executed! By logical extension a man who obstructed the rule of the former Amiirul mu’muniin should not be obeyed today! Do you see it now how shaky your argument is, yaa fiqi? And you hastily claimed that you’ve won the argument! Midda kale, don’t you realize that you failed to answer my two questions? Those two questions are very important for your answer will give a measure of your understanding as far as Islamic khalifah is concern! Khalaf, if you think good Fiqi made headways in justifying adeer Cabdulle’s rule on a sound theological base then you are utterly confused! I for one failed to see any new points that are worthy of a response. There is a valid point which many people in this site before him made; the question of how and with what strategy to oppose this occupation is valid and is worth of exploring! But to camouflage his support for this entity with prophetic sayings that were put in place to keep order and peace under the Islamic rule, is just a mere camouflage and for you to repeatedly refer it as a solid point is quite a disappointment adeer! There is no point to refute adeer! But good Fiqi can still help us help him by sharing with us what definition of Muslim ruler he has! The Muslim ruler whose behalf prophet Muhammad urged the faithful to support him that is! Till then i dont think there is a productive debate to be had here adeer! There are many reasons for one to support this tfg. Religion is not one of them, i say!

@OLOL!

Castro:-- Liqaye and sophist come to mind..there could be many more who support it in the hope for a better future! Surely there are those who support it for purely clannish reasons! Those, i am sure you would agree, are not hard to spot!

^^ @Castro! I am positive adeer. ps..i will be back..IA!

Fiqi yare’s argument: the old man is a Muslim ruler and as such we should all obey him. As a Muslim ruler, he has every right to enter treaty with whomever he wishes, including the Tigre regime and their American backers. All those poor souls who were maimed or killed by the Tigre tanks and American gunners, were on the wrong path of opposing their Amiir, and probably died in a wrongful rebellion! We shouldn’t dispute the legitimacy of the process that produced our Amir (that was implicit in your argument) as it was fairly regulated and happened under the full supervision of current world powers and their representatives. ^^^ That’s, in a nutshell, what you are spewing here! You can’t camouflage your support of this government with prophetic sayings. If you truly think this man has religious sanction of sort we need to understand where you are coming from and what definition of a Muslim ruler you have! It’s laughable that you make another assertions and label me as a hater! That’s a very strong word. I don’t hate you adeer but I think you are unstable. But when you sought religion as a justification of the war crimes that Yey and his cabal committed, the snare you sat up for yourself is indeed worthy the priaise, yaa Fiqi!

@Fiqi-yare! This xadiith should suffice to apprehend your vandalism of the sayings of our prophet Muhammad (scw): لاطاعة لمخلوق في معصية الخالخ ^^This is also an Islamic formula; its benefits are without end! It’s a Muslim’s modes operandi in worshipping Allah! If you didn’t know it before learn it now yaa Fiqi! That aside and since you so mightily labored to produce this write up to theologically justify adeer Yey’s rule, let me ask you two questions adeer: 1- What are the divinely sanctioned objectives of a Muslim ruler, the mundane interests and spiritual benefits that are required of him? 2- Can you tell us some of the basic characteristics and attributes of such a leader and discuss permissible processes by which such a righteous leader can be selected/elected? Other than that, I must note that I find your effort to give a religious dye to old man's presidency beyond lunacy! The man has never sought legitimacy through religion and I don’t think he cares what religious rights are given to him on the subjects he claims to govern! Midda kale he fully knows that whatever legitimacy he has emanates from a two-year process where a collection of fulltime killers and death-lords spent time in discussing different modalities to share power and donors money! How you dare to sanction such a tainted leader as righteous Imaam beats me wallaahi! ps--raali ahow ikhyaarta golaha waan kasoo dibdhacaye!

^^I have one for Zenawi: Ninkii ey rabbeeyaa fadaro aano waw yahaye’e Shaydaan ixsaan lagama helo eray xun mooyaane’e

^^ @I read them but never heard them! PS--i have struggled to bring it back! It's truer today, I agree . It was also true when the Courts miraculously emerged from a sea of anarchy and brought shoots of hope to the weary masses of Mogadishu!

^^Mush macquul hathaa yaa Castro? Timacadde's verses? You never heard them?

Fiqiyow; Dadkoo ehela uunkoo hurdoo kala asluubaysan Sow belo ninkii ibobaxshaa ehelu naar maaha? Adan Arab instantly retorted to Ahmed Dirir’s poetic complaint! Likewise, a government, unreformed and in its present form, that broke the virginity of our sovereignty and brought our enemies into our cities and homes, does not deserve our allegiance, i say! Need I answer what has changed since my pledged support to the TFG, yaa Fiqi? You remind me the story of Wacays, a Berberaawi businessman who lost his entire caravan to a famous thug in hawd and still was forced to explain why he needed his merchandise back into his possession! Do you remember his famous verses, and the unique poetic missive that he composed that ultimately moved elders of that region to act? Adduunyo!

Fiqi-yare, do you want us all to fall inline and embrace this tfg and take it as it’s? Could you put forward and enumerate suggestions to reform it so it becomes an acceptable entity that we could tolerate? With all honesty only Baashi has bothered to suggest alternate course to the path for which I have preached! Liqaye, with all his eloquence and passionate speeches, has yet to offer a new plan that could at least prevent the ominous prospects of prolonged civil war, which he so powerfully counseled against! Btw, what makes you think these morons will succeed this time around? Could it be Tigre tanks parked at Mogadishu airport? Could it be that you have information that we don’t have and the world is serious to settle the Somali question and will back this tfg financially and diplomatically? Propose something adeer other than 'we won and you lost' so leap over the net for this puppet tfg and fall in line with it!

^^You passed the test yaa Baashe !

@Castro! I hear you adeer! Last time i checked though Tukaale was a reasonable man so my provakative swing was in many ways a sanity check for him! LOL@Culumo iyo Caamo! Tukaale, I guess i am no culumo so that puts me in the Caamo column !

the other posts have no merit and can only have impact on the Caamada like you! Waryee Tukaale waa maxay Caamo, adeer?

Liqaye is a very old soul indeed! But he conveniently forgets something that’s very important in this discourse: the call to embrace the tfg is an alternative as much as the call to reject it is! To put the burden of coming up alternatives on the latter group is to assume, wrongly, first group has the luxury of proposing the null hypotheses, to borrow a statistical term, and those who reject it need prove otherwise! It's a toss adeer!

^^Don’t be another Castro basher adeer; there are too many of such nomads here already! Don’t you think these types of posts are needed if nothing else to counter the other suggestive posts, which tend to be full of rosy scenarios? Well, this is how things are on the ground adeer! If the top dogs of tfg are living in the now defunct Villa in Mogadishu entire villagers with their herds have been wiped out! Ethiopian tanks and American gunners have maimed and killed many more whose death goes unreported! And you know that the puppets in the capital are happy and even want it to continue…..how sad!

Thanks Castro! That was a telling clip! Horn, it’s a tough call adeer but that simple act would have two vitally important and positive outcomes. First, whatever influential Muslim scholars still remain in the country would be sparred from this mass arrests going on everywhere in the south, people whose political views are shaped by religion and nationalism would have a voice in our discourse, and this disgrace that befell on us would be lifted! Second, this reconciliation framework would have a chance to succeed; it would be forced to deal with political realities on the ground and address the issues of its constitutional anomalies; it would realize that no amount of foreign intervention would give it the legitimacy it so badly desires! There is also the risk of going back to another prolonged anarchy. But it’s anarchy to me when even herds and environment are not spared from America’s wrath. Some people might think few men’s safety (i.e. old man and Geedi) constitutes or represents a new era of order and peace! It’s a temporary pose adeer! So disrupting an established order is a false premise for the argument of Ethiopia's stay till replacement troops arrive!

Horn, no i ma not ignoring you saaxiib! You need to understand how i formulate my stances. I have a zero clan bais adeer! Almost! Here is the test, and hold it to me: if Barre opposes this occupation troups in the south he will be my man! Talk to him adeer, and tell him we will be forever gratefull if he does that! Castro, i will watch it IA!

^^LOL! Fiqi yare is not even sparing his supporters from his bloodstained knife adeer! Dadkii waxba kama reebin ninku; the man is extremely self-assured and thinks he can do without!