In its most basic meaning, Islam represents a set of legal codes revealed by Allah to properly worship Him. It instructs its followers how to live their life. Of course that includes how to manage, collectively, their affairs and govern them-selves. So to answer your question, yaa Cambarro, it’s ever a time to separate politics from religion! From Islamic perspective that is.

@maxay laba amxaar ugu dari waayeen! Raggaan anigu mawada aqaan laakiin Abwaan is right Ali Mahdi is detached from Somali conflict as much as Morgan is! Nin daad qaaday xunbo cuskay, bay hadda maraysaa giraantu .

Originally posted by Jimcaale: LOL@ the new ambassador!

Originally posted by MKA Yoonis: ^You're right. It is also said that bin Laden was very undeceisive to who join as he was split between the radicals and the not so radical the group lead by Abdullah Azzaam who mysteriously got blown up as he was on his way to Friday prayers in Peshwar. Bin Laden is not educated and cannot be called a 'Sheikh' and both he and his actions have been denounced by the vast Ulamaa of this religion. They gave him real advice but he didn't want to listen. They're a misguided bunch and Al-Qeada exists as a group and it is a ideology but even that group is split into many more groups which are totally separate to each other and operate totally independent from each other as well. It is true that Zarqaawi was a monster and psychopath who used to be a patty criminal in Ammaan, Urdun. This group is in favour of killing innocent people which amazes me and sometimes I had heated discussion with those folks. I hate shiite's but my hate does not justify any barbaric and inhumane acts Al-Qeada is pursuing in Iraq. Blowing up a market in Sadr city to evict some invaders is beyond comprehension. Are you in favour of evicting occupiers, so why are you blowing up a Shia inhabited slum? Their tactics in Iraaq is wrong and no sane muslim will ever condone the systematic and indiscrimiate killing of innocent people. Why target civilians? You can see that this people have gone astray. The other thing is that global Jihaad is and should not be a group Jihaad. Only a Amiir that has got the pledge and support of all the muslims can be global Jihaad be done but not before that. They're a insane bunch of group that have got in their midst some 'collaborators' or 'double-agents' that assist them in further propagating this alien ideology and pass it on as 'Islaam'. Blowing up trains in Madrid and London won't bring about a Islamic state I say because you have not fulfilled the requirements of such a state nor have you followed the sunnah that's why you're going to fail and continue to fail. ^^Orators, as the saying goes, are most vehement when their cause is weak! What caught my eyes this time though is how strong you seem to feel in your own folly! You turned to idle tales as though you can make up in length what your argument lacks in depth. If you correctly observed the apparent flaws of the Islamic struggle against western hegemony what prevented you to extend that same intellectual bullet to the sheer brute and the naked aggression of your allies adeer? To be sure I find no difficult to understand your mournful cries for the victims of London and Madrid but what troubles me is how you play sheikh and elegantly put things in context when it so fits your agenda but die out in a state of unconsciousness, or worse yet, wax some lyrics while apparently being in a festive mood to celebrate the victims of the very terrorism you denounce. Not that long ago your fellow Muslims were targeted and hit with barrage of indiscriminate shelling from your allies, and you were, unless my memory fails me, among the cheerful supporters of such a operation. With such a glaring lack of credibility, are you not wasted in sure vain when you try to reason from a religious angle yaa MKA? Al qacida may be guilt of killing few (comparatively) innocent souls while avenging millions of Muslims under western domination but what say you about killing hundreds of innocent Somalis, not to count their livestock--the very livelihood that sustains them, all of that for a mere search of three fugitives, as the west claims? Whose side would you rather be: on a decidedly anti-Muslim regime that saves no soul from its wrath and the lethality of its weapon or on the side of people with a legitimate cause and a known grievance—albeit with a questionable means to remedy it---I ask? Think about yaa MKA!!

This is a sham gathering designed to deceive donors. It has no legitimacy whatsoever and the outcome, therefore, is quite predictable!

^^All of that may be true and I certainly pray these setbacks are short-term corrective measures that are exacted by Allah to prepare us for the next victory. That however does not answer the question I posed: what went wrong? Unless you are prepared to argue that what happened was not a failure or defeat at all, I expect you to present some sort of assignable causes that could be attributed to our recent shortcomings! We can turn our setbacks in to victory by changing our attitudes and right our wrongs. We can’t however present our vast retreat as a divine win, methinks! I don’t claim to have the ability, spiritual or otherwise, to decode Allah’s wisdom that’s manifested in the worldly challenges we face both as individuals, or, collectively, as an ummah! In my personal life, I do observe my failings and try to assign them to the correct source. Without such a process of cause and effect I would probably find all events quite dull and uninteresting. It defeats the purpose of being mukalif if you can’t recognize and reason with your failure. When confronted with unusual lethargy in memory, Al Shaafici, it was reported, complained to his mentor (cant remember the relationship correctly) : شكوت إلي وكيع بسؤ حفظي فأرشدني إلي ترك المعاصي وأخبرني بأن العلم نور ونورألله لايعطى لعاص His mentor has pointed the source of Al Shaafici’s sluggish memory and counseled him to refrain from the mini sins. And the cure, or so the story goes, was found for Al Shaafic’s little setback in achieving his academic goal. Now does it not strike as a sign of laziness yaa jamaacah to easily explain away such a grand failure (icu’s failure)? As the intellectual pens of this sahwah, we should perhaps be more courageous in admitting failures when they occur, and shun this group-thinking tendency! Implicit in the assertion of ‘nothing went wrong’ is the danger of repeating same mistakes and adopting strategies that might’ve caused our setbacks in the first place! Do you see my point?

Taliban, that practice was not common! Caano, the reason Islamic dachaw produced wonders during eighties and nineties, and its magic continues as we speak, is precisely because people were exposed to those unknown intricacies and were able to understand and appreciate what few men of religion could in Nuradin’s prime days. Those brothers in SA could easily relieve Nuradin’s sentiment if they school him about this Islamic stuff, which he seems to be confused about. That will definitely prevent him from swimming in ironies as he is doing no, unknowingly of course!

@caano geel! Camel boy, boqor, dhacle, iyo sadex-qayd was the standard dress for Somali womenfolk when the likes of Nuradin were growing up! In fact, it was the dictates of the nomadic tradition then to have young and unmarried girls sport with their uncovered hair! Nuradin is not far from the truth when he asserts the veil and the other strict Islamic dress codes are quite new to Somalis in general. Where he perhaps went wrong is his implicit contention about the origins of the hijaab or the veil for that matter. Hijab is not an Arab culture per se and neither is the veil. The fact that Somalis wear veil does indicate that they have favored alien culture over theirs. If any thing it indicates that Islamic knowledge has been distributed more widely than it ever has been, and Muslims make informed choices today then before. His is an acceptable ignorance I say! All the old man needs is an adequate Islamic education. I have seen many honest people like him who put a fierce defense for the old Somali ways of dressing but when exposed to the intricacies of Islamic fiqh and its legal ramifications become a decidedly sworn hijab supporter.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: AASHUUN ???? Just remove the first two AA and ask me the remaining ^^Why trim words (two, to be exact) to hoard indecency? Don’t be the base that disappoints yaa JB ! And know that excessive bantering torments one’s own repute, adeer. Allow wax ma kuu sheegay! Waanase abuuris baa ka horraysay baa la yiri~~ Baashow, tuuji maskaxda adeer oo bal faallee sida godkan odogu nagu riday looga soo bixi lahaa! Meel xun bay ka daganaysaa. Sadex arrimood maxaad ka tiri yaa Baashi: 1- Kooxda waqooyiga dadka ku horjoogta ee go’idda ku waalatay ee caashaqsan mar un jamhuuriyad gaar ah inay noqdaan, bal xaalkooda wax ka dheh. 2- Odey Cadbulle iyo siyaaasaddiisa dhooqaysan iyana wax ka dheh. Najjaasadiisa in najjaaso kale lagu mayro Baashow qiil ma uhaysaa? 3- Xamar caddey iyo ayyaandarradeeda; maanta waa amxaaro iyo aqdaamteed, shalay waxay ahayd xero qab-qable-dagaal iyo m-o-o-r-y-a-a-n ka taliyaan, darraadna waa meeshii Barre ku amartaaglaynayey! Haddi iftiinkii usoo baxay laga damiyey bal maxaa la gudboon maanta yaa Baashi?

**And in the meantime, it’s time to recognize Somaliland as a nation. When a place does this well, we should hail it as a model, not shun it.** If ^^that is the essence of the article, dismemberment should never be the reward of peace and stability I say!

^^^Precisely yaa camel gatherer! Khalaf, if they told you Aweys worked for Aydiid and Aqasim devised the icu to oppose old man’s tfg, you couldn’t be more misinformed adeer! As brother Geel-jire quite rightly said icu’ shortcomings, in the big scheme of things, are relatively negligible when compared with the old man’s acts of bringing Ethiopians in our urban centers. Go ahead and open a thread to discuss about ICU failings and you will find me reasonable! But don’t you come mixing your support for the tfg and your underhand digs against icu’s leadership. That is not one of your precious quality adeer! To say that there are practical problems confronting the return of Islamic sahwah to the leadership today is quite correct. But to dampen the political effect of Ethiopian occupation on our soils is misstating/misreading the facts on the ground. Worse yet, to put this tfg in the league of today’s nation states and depict as a sovereign government that could formulate its own policies (invite whom they like) is indeed the peek of dishonesty. How could you do that Khalafow? Ugu danbayn, there are people, and quite a few of them are around on these boards, whose aims to defeat a particular clan and would justify any means to attain that stated goal of thiers. Ethiopian accupation is one means to defeat Indhacadde's clan, they say. Don't you get schooled by such people adeer. As a young fellow you need to examine things holistically and waa inaad yestaa caqliyadda noocaas ah for it advocates a ceaseless and perpetual tribal fight...and that's destructive yaa Khalaf, no?

^^Indhacadduu ka adkaaday with Ethiopian tanks of course !

Allow sahal.

comma= hakad. Yaa i khilaafay?

There is nothing unique about reer Qansax adeer. As matter of fact I AM reer Qansax which you refering to. I oppose the guy and his policies. Is that enough of a sample to show you that your conclusion is wrong? Baashi is reer Qansax but he opposes the old man and his policies? Still unconvinced? Allaha kuusoo sahlo adeer. One more thing....the old man succeeded in his mini project by using men who perhaps are closer in blood to you than they are to him. It really doesn’t bear any significant whatsoever whether he gets support from his sub clan. And even if you insist, their support could be justified on many other grounds other than Islam necayb or Ethiopia jeceyl as you would like to reduce it. What the old man did is not unique and is completely inline with wicked tactics that strong men before him used to attain power. Waxaan dux lahayn baad maantoo dhan ku nuux-nuuxsanaysaa. Give it up dude!

^^Aah the gentle General couldn't resist it. Did I tell you that you are one of few people here on these boards whose logic in support for the tfg I don’t labor comprehending. On that account you are quite harmless Dukow ! My beef however is with those who camouflage with religion when presenting their argument in support of this tfg. As for blaming Ethiopia, you may be right in so far that Ethiopia alone should not bear the whole blame of our political mess for there are willing collaborators who provided perfect cover for her designs and eased the way for her occupation. That I would agree. What you need to answer for yaa Duke is the out-of-control-signals coming out of Mogadishu! Does the old man realize that he has been wasting considerable ammo to cause mass exodus while the critical-variables remain untouched and attack with own leisure adeer? In other words, and perhaps, what sadex xarigle Xalane termed the defeated lot is not defeated at all . Oodwweyne is not the only one who made that mistake after all . Or is he?

Khalafow, ever heard: Sidii gaari shaagi ninyahow gees walba ujeeda ...... Wallee laba garaadlow markale kaama guro sheeko Adeer, you can’t make a distinction without a difference. By supporting the tfg, you are directly supporting Melez’s regional policies. By extension, you are also subscribing to Bush’s pronounced anti-terror initiatives (read: getting rid political Islam of the current political discourse in the Muslim world). And by uncomplicated deduction, you are a Tigre tank rider: a derived result of your political allegiance. Problem is, you are unaware of it. To most of us, there is no political subtlety in what you wrote. You might’ve confused one or two, I admit. Now, I don’t really argue with the fact that people are entitled to make own choices of however they want to align their politics. Common sense demands though that one ought to make such a choice while fully aware of its consequence and what it entails. You disowned an entire (Islamic)entity on a mere accusation that it has its midst a questionable character! Then you play meek when queried your stance on the old man’s tfg! There, my good friend, you hamper your thinking faculty! One more thing you need to restrain is mixing your support of this entity with religious critiques of the icu whose military setbacks Ethiopia caused. They are of a two different genre adeer.

Welcome yaa Baashi! Great analysis as always. Aashuun’s narrow outer pathways are jammed with rumors! The most persisting one is this: 1- Ethios and the old man are determined to destroy Mogadishu or in dhulka lala simo. What say you yaa Baashi about this one?

^^Brother SOS, you are not alone in the belief that nothing went wrong in the last battle! I can clearly see your conviction of the righteousness of what has transpired. Although I am not that far from you in principle I do firmly believe that last war was fought and lost in a rushed manner! I share your optimism however and things will, in the end, be favorable for Somalis IA. How should we proceed about exacting a lasting resolution to our crisis? Someone needs to speak and tackle that. But as a side note, I think waddaads need a political paradigm shift in terms of confronting Somalia’s external enemies (obviously it was an external enemy that which caused this setback). If anything is learned from these setbacks it’s that one cant fight without the support of own populace! Wars are won not only by the righteous men who lead it but also, and primarily at that, by the execution of the laymen who fight it. In today’s global village, one also needs to establish alliances and engage mutual dealings to engage and sustain resistance of any sort. The Somali case is simple yet complex. People, generally speaking, are cultivated and ready to accept a genuine leadership. The Muslim world is fairly educated about our plight. Our enemies are clinging to incompetent and despised men who have no credibility whatsoever to revive Somalia again. While all of that is true the tribal nature of our societies and the deep mistrust between them seems to work against the good we desire and gives our enemy the edge it so badly needs. It’s my belief therefore that any genuine movement that aims high in its political outlook must consider the segmented and clannish political settings of our people in order for it to succeed. Midda kale, there’s a great lesson to learn from our Prophet’s political wisdom in sheltering the munaafiqs and including them in his camp without giving them a real role in his political formulations. So clearly there could be a balanced approach in considering our clannish settings and keeping the credibility of the sahwa untainted! But as you know we only talk and hardly do the hard work these kind of noble goals require. Waryaa usoo baxay?

^^How do you explain then the democratic phenomenon in which masses peacefully change unpopular regimes, Latin America, may be case in point, and secure a fair representation of thier choice of gonverment? Cambarro, good of you to have started this very challenging topic.

^^I think, to hazard a guess, Somalis did practice dikri in the days of Ahmed Gurey! Dikri has been around for quite a long time now with us. I heard I.M. Lewis has a Somali dikri collection, handwritten too, in his personal library. Jimcaale, I know very little about dikri. I was rescued at an early age by the saxwah. Up to my third grade I was part of xerta macallin Nur (I wonder if they still exist) and we did a lot of Ziyara festivities in Xamar. They had scattered mawlacs (mini mosques) where they do their little Mawliid chants and some basic religious learning! I have never read a mawleed book. But I heard it’s full of mini shirks. People who recite those Mawleed poems mostly don’t understand what they are chanting. They are just ignorant men who want to praise their prophet in the best way possible! Trouble is, since they are doing it in a language that’s not theirs, it’s very hard to convince them about the violations made in those poems. May Allah forgive them on the basis of Jahli. [edit] My freind told me that the city of Galkacyo is one of few places where dikri/xadras are publicly practiced in the open fields. Do you know another city oo lagu xadreeyo galabtii oo dadku usoo daawasho tagaan?

@wiilow & kacaan-diid We were kacaan-diid numero uno adeer! With all the hardships Somalia went through, Ina Barre’s regime is not some thing I remember with nostalgia! It was source of our ills, religious and political. The man symbolizes what was, and still is, wrong with Somalia. Unless you wanna chant Khalif's famous verses: Muusiyo Ismaaciilka Bari kuma maqlaayaane'e Musbaaxii kacaanku u shiday mahadinaayaane'e Get rid of the con man, i say! ps--Waan carraabay'e marka Faarax soo noqdo, erayda af carabiga ah eed soo qortay u fasir ! Haddii kale Castruu noogu yeeri.

^Dont overdo it adeer! Leave the scene while you are ahead as you claim. Waa talo .

^^I have been particularly generous to this wallah ! I have given him a lot of advice. By far, this one is the most practical one yaa Jimcaale! I will be disappointed if haddusan ama Syria u dhoofin ama uusan Jaamacadda isku qorin. Lets wait and see what he says about qorshahaan cusub ! ps--what's up with Barre's pic adeer ?

African countries are just being smart and are avoiding setting a bad precedent by not recognizing Somaliland. The stakes are a lot higher than people like Oodweyne are willing to admit. At least three things have to happen and in the right order for NGONGE to happily wave Somaliland’s flag: 1- A legitimate Somali (read: south) government with enough stability must first agree to Somaliland’s separation. 2- A workable arrangement must be established to allow non-consenting tribes to have their way/voice otherwise the whole thing would risk rekindling another conflict between certain clans in the north. 3- The powers that be must sign on such a disintegration plan of the former Somali republic and consider regional impact it could have. It’s drilling a brick, I tell ye! But the problem has been and still remains to be that some folks think that they could indeed drill a stone-brick with firewood! It's a hardwork!