Taako, i thought Cadde's term will expire by the year's end per Reg. Cont. Any truth to that adeer? As for your faulty score-keeping card...need i say more other than it's that, faulty! Yoniska: the gallery is at risk here and if you dont share what you deem to be the correct version of this evolving story good Xiin may win the ball. That would be a quite scene! And you know it. Will Puntland be forced to paricipate in the old man's conference as a clannish enclave? Why now and why not in Jabuuti? Yoniska fill us in here, will ye?

CG, what you mistook for ‘a misguided sense of superiority’ is a clear case of judicious stance on the matter ! What’s not adding up though is your attempt to censure my attitude toward dog-eaters and your apparent non-judgmental attitude toward the practice itself adeer! Yours is a misplaced moral relativism adeer. I prefer not to eat dogs. I find it quite a repulsive practice, and grossly at that! What’s wrong with that statement yaa Caano? And to dig your sarcastic complement about my sight, how can one market them adeer?

^^So the orders were given… My speculation continues… Agenda items: ============ Taxation Postponing Puntland Presidential selection (exploring posipilities..) Puntland’s participation in the proposed so-called reconciliation conference in Moga (what form…) Agreed items ========= Jananka has the correct feed on this one… Action Items ========= Yonis will fill us in… edit: i posted before i saw Yonis's agenda list. No matter. I still think there's one item missing from that list !

^you are pulling the wrong skirt of the discussion adeer---if you understand my personal ditaste of it and also know that religion rejects it, why ask what's wrong with it from my prespective adeer? And yes i think i would! Would you not be able to tell the diff yaa Caano?

^^That's really uff! Faarax got it right yaa camel-rider! Actually it is beyond qurun; it’s bad for the environment too as dog-eaters pollute the air with their breath!

Uff. Maxay qurun ka dhargeen!

Yoniska: it’s not a secret that Cadde’s regime is a dummy admin for the old man. If one speculates, as I did, whether the agenda of their said meeting covered how to maintain their relationship it does not mean one is propagating conspiracies adeer. But seeing how our Taako man responded I decided to explore what drawn forth his tears and caused his wailings. And you, to gather up your gems, resorted to a cheap conspiratorial tales to refute Xiins! What’s left to say, i ask? edit: Generale, again that's a weak armor adeer.

Jananka: no Ethiopian occupation! No insurgency. There is a functioning government. The conference is genuine and real. Every one is on board except few pathetic dead-enders! ^^That’s a defective comeback adeer! You need some error proofing in your logic before you post such a mulish response, i say. edit, Yoniska: I have not seen the said article thusly your whole premise is defective as well and warrants no respose from my part.

Originally posted by Cambarro: Ngonge No matter how you look at it, the closest a man became to being romantic was "Naa ma isku weyso dhowranaa" and however much gabay and geeraar were recited, it didnt translate into reality. Men somehow had/have desires greater than women, hence the filth gabay/geeraar and the multiple wives. ^^It appears that you didn’t hear the story of Gaal dilaane ! A young southern girl was hitched and taken to a sheikh in a distant village so he can perform the religious sanction for the two to marry. After the sheikh did the legal sanction he said some prayers and quoted some prophetic sayings that meant to reinforce the act of marrying. The more love you make, the sheikh encouraged, the more ajar you get. In fact, the sheikh reportedly said, any time two of you make love and have a legal intercourse, it equates in its religious significance, as though you’d kill an infidel in Jihad. So they left and went back to their village so they can announce their status as a married couple. The young girl particularly liked her husband’s ways in making love with her. Any time she wanted to begin this newly found bedroom practice, she would just say; Ali Gaal dilaane ? To which he would simply respond in the affirmative. It was reported that Ali, after many affirmative responses, one day retorted; Sayidnaa Caligeena seeftiisii barakaysnayd gaalkaas ku dhammeyn waayey ani tabar ma u haayo ee idhaaf ! Which translates, I can hardly slaughter and finish off all the infidels which even Sayid Ali with his blessed unsheathed sword could not! ^^that was romantic.

^Other than your one-line passé’, what else do you have to contribute yaa Horn?

London residents please do the needful. Thanks for your good conscious yaa Lily.

^^You are showing some noticeable lethargy today. Those conferences were real and genuine unlike what you are advertising here. The orgs you named participated in it but it was the elders of those communities that owned it. That’s why its outcome continues to hold. As far as you are concerned, denying Ethiopian occupation in the south and its presence in other regions is not a new exercise. What you perhaps missing is the fact that this time its military occupation is coupled with a marked violence. And all the indications show that the violence will continue as long Ethiopia and other invited troops are present in the capital. The fact you think that you are facing one clan is quite telling of the whole tfg strategy: you defeat one clan and every thing will fall in the right place, and orderly so. You might as well call them dead-enders as America’s defense chief once said but I can tell you that it’s the tfg that’s caged.

LOL@Laakiin ri ku haraatineysa ma lisi-kartaa? Some people do yaa Cara! Back to Che’s q; I think I am priceless. Just like Cambarro !

^^Reconciliation conferences are most effective when they utilize indigenous conflict resolving methods--that much is true. What’s a false analogy though is your likening the Burco and Garoowe conferences, locally owned and supported initiatives, with the tentatively announced gathering in Mogadishu, clearly sham project under the tutelage of an occupation force. A pretentious scheme, which some here would have us take it as a genuine effort.

Originally posted by Taako Man: Only a political pragmatist like yourself who believed the TFG was going to fall between the proverbial crack is hoping and constantly at opposite ends with reality. No clan is going to be harmed. Surely it can't when a government of all clans is in session? Or are you one of the simpletons who believe this government is a puntland machination since the old man is the head of it? Reconciliation is coming my friend, Scrap merchants, looters, and illegal lovers and for some reasons and individual like yourself who wants no government and governance will be quelled inshallah. You can continue to come up with a million of your crazy scenarios and think up the unthinkable, however so far it's 0 Xinfaniin- 6 (and counting) TFG. Keep the crazy predictions coming adeer. With your mental frame it sure is a win for you yaa Taako. Simpleton is he who judges defectively and reaches verdict based solely on the momentary performance of his team. With such clear deficiency in reason I doubt you can understand where I am coming from. Group solidarity aside, tell, yaa Taako, me what your tfg achieved save from watching foreign troops overpowering one segment of its people? How naïve are you when you fall for ‘the-world-is-with-us-on-this’ thing adeer? As I always tend to remind your likes, wisdom is not one-day’s purchase and for you to see the depth of the shame you are swimming in, you would probably need few months for the reality to sink in. But once again our measure of success may fundamentally differ and it may be the case, as long the old man is alive and kicking, and claiming to be the head of Somali Republic, that you call it a fabulous achievement. Where I am looking for some sort of healing to our civil war sores and conducive political environment for our next reconciliation conference . Jananka, there is nothing wrong with Cadde giving it a go! edit: Taako I have never disputed that Yonis shows a remarkable performance in the arena of eloquence. But as you know I have only pointed out that he applies it quite liberally to the degree that he often cuts off his nose with his own hand as it were, and that renders the whole exercise quite ineffective.

^^Edit the clan names good Ahmed! Don’t be desperate adeer!

^^So the gentle General weighs in and Cadde is up for reelection. I respect your insight--only if your co-ideologues were so adequately informed . Yonis:- you are, to be sure, more creative than our Taako man. But you somehow, and more often than not, fail to measure up.

Originally posted by Taako Man: I would kindly advise you to stop twisting truths and lying about facts to gain what you deceptively are training to gain adeer. Division of Somalis is not healthy. So the source of your livid responses is my above query ! And how did you conclude that my goal is to divide Somalia yaa Taako? Since my innocent q threw you out of balance, I must’ve hit the proverbial nail on the head and the discussion was about Cadde’s term after all. Originally posted by Taako Man: Secondly, the state of Xamar is in a position like never before. Xamar will be the centre of a federal Somalia. Where in it will be it's capital and with a little more manouvering it will run From Zeylac to Raas Caseyr to Raas Kambooni. I wish that was the case as you described it! Things as we see and hear them are world away from your wishful thinking however. Simply put, if you were after particular clan and prayed to defeat them you may have a reason to celebrate, if you were after a united and reconciled Somalia that governs itself and is at peace within, however, there is only gloom in sight adeer and only a simpleton would find our current situation a landmark development. You cant fake nationalism adeer if you dont undertand what it realy is.

^^I doubt you realize the incongruity in your above statement ! Cadde did not talk with his mouth to get there adeer. He and his clans men used bullets and shed blood to get the old man cede to them and give what he wanted. But why are you all worked up today…is it the status of Moga that makes you behave that way? calm down adeer.

Could this discussion be how to postpone Puntland’s coming presidential selection to keep its political environment friendly for the old man’s policies? I bet on that! If I were a betting man that is.

Soomaal, May be I’ve come out a bit harsher than I’ve meant! I am not at all safe from the gravity of partisanship toward a creed or opinion. Yet I try to be open minded, as much as I can, and seek what other people have to say about any particular event. Good Garaad failed him self, in many ways, when he threw one line remark and walked away without elaboration. Many people have accused Indhacadde of atrocious crimes and pointed out his background as a powerful warlord who forcefully ruled southern communities that lacked military muscle to defend themselves. That’s a known fact, and I am not in any form or shape disputing it. But to suggest that one man has downed an entire entity is quite a leap, I think, and one needs to explain why he/she thinks that is the case. As I said before I don’t doubt that Garaad lacks intellectual capacity to formulate an argument and put some meat on his naked assertion. But as it stands now, the central point of my critique and the subsequent suggestion I offered remain well placed. Digi, You do have indeed a point there. It goes back to the mistrust between Somali communities as the result of the civil war. As Ibnu Khaldoun once wrote, every group has within itself the seeds of its downfall, and I don’t doubt that tribal mistrust was one of the factors that caused ICU’s hurried fall. But the ultimate blame, in my view, rests with their over-simplification of Somali’s political equation, their lack of appreciation of the resolve of Somalia’s external enemies, and their lack of convincing and well-communicated political (not security alone) program, not for the hardcore Sahwah people, but for the average Somalis. As good SOS suggested, perhaps we need to take a collective responsibility for what have transpired. More importantly, we need to view as a process and understand the defective aspects of it so we can improve it. Reforming societies has never been a one-time event---it’s a process. From this setback, I hope next group will learn from it how to take a calculated risk to minimize its loses!

lol@too many spies! Miyaad tirisay geel-jirow . Brother SOS-ow, yours was a good read indeed and I enjoyed reading it. The notion of collective responsibility somehow appeals to me. But you have also raised other important points for which I owe you a response IA. I shall come back and highlight those points for the benefit of all, haddii alle idmo. Garaad, why utter half-truths, as the one-liner-simpletons do, or bark like a spiteful ignorant, adeer? I doubt that you are that detective to the degree that you are unable to give intellectual backing to your assertions! Ama muuqo ama ka maqnow meesha, i say!

I wonder that too as we dont know what the future holds for us! But my raw sentiment is that Ethiopia's fall would mean good for Somalia. The six plus million Somalis would either build a state of thiers or join other Somalis and make the dream of greater Somalia real. I could list other positive things that could happen as a result of Ethiopia's collapse. What do you think yaa Che?

Ethiopia is a concocted state with a very shaky foundation! Only two ethnic groups fully identify themselves as Ethiopians and wish it to survive as it’s. Most other ethnic groups, the majority of Ethiopian masses mind you, either seek a radical transformation that could threaten the very identity of Ethiopia or want an outright dismemberment of the state. Despite western presentation of Ethiopia and its history, it’s the very survival of the state itself, and not the regime, that’s at stake! More likely than not, the end of Ethiopia will come in the form of internal implosion as opposed to an external invasion. Thanks Che for the article. It was a good read.

@Xiin's qabiil! ThePoint, adeer welcome back horta. Second, Dibji-Somali succeeded to put the salafi term in context and gave its true meaning in effortless manner. I thought it was a rare verse when he wrote that Salafis are sinonymous with Sunnist or the prophet's Sunnah observers! Now tell me, yaa ThePoint, who can compose after his style ? Dibji-Somali, I think you’ve rekindled the over-due discussion about Sahwah’s varying groups and how much their differing approaches affect their over-all successes as a group! Is it feasible and realistic, for instance, to have Jihads, Ikhwaanis, and Sufis in the same flock and still succeed and reach common goals? Is their difference much greater than their similitude to the degree cooperation and collaboration between them is unattainable? On another level, was it too early to integrate tribal militias without thoroughly rehabilitating them and equipping them with the necessary Islamic tarbiyah? I think in principle Muslims with differing approaches could be mobilized and could actually achieve their goals. But for that to work it requires a sensible leadership that’s well versed with the realities of their surroundings. It also requires support base with adequate religious/political awareness and with a sense of ownership of the Sahwah cause. Abdalla Azam articulated in his Jihaad Shacb how vital it’s for the Sahwah leadership to not just fight the war but to lead the fight by securing the support of a critical mass of the public! The core ducaat should not be sacrificed, he argues, and put in armed struggle without the support of the people whose name they fight. I found that strategy quite attractive and prudent. But it does not have the whole answer and, as we have seen in the last battle, the support of the public may sometimes be deceiving. This is where the fiqh of war comes in and nothing less than Allah’s spiritual sustenance can overcome such a testing adversity. Again empty slogans of Jihad are not substitute for the real prep work such a task requires. In any adventure failure is the default and expected outcome and it should not surprise anyone if that turns out to be the case. But we must be very careful for defeat often detains clear reasoning and introduces lingering anger with which wrong decisions are made and executed. Angry people as Mahathir famously uttered tend to make wrong decisions. As we vividly remember it were the drastic setbacks that caused the erratic and unanticipated violent events in Algeria when the injustice of the Western power prevented the much-awaited harvest of the Islamic Sahwah’s long years of hard work. I hope and pray against similar breakdown of Somali Sahwah. At any rate, our failure is not unique but we need to explain the whys and whats so we can strive to avoid similar fate, I say. Soo dhowow yaa Muraad. All those three points make sense to me but I shall wait and let you elaborate more on them!