^^I don't know about Gaariyye but Hadraawi has a record of Soomalinimo Asli'ah saaxiib! I really admire this man...I guess Burcaawis are suspects of being more somali in that region!

Their good intentions are noted...

Taano is an intellectual Taano is the de-facto governor of Kismayo Taano is Idaajaa’s brother =Taano is a good man, and Xiin is wrong! ^^This is the net intellectual produce of Hiiraale’s cyber goon squads to justify Kismayo’s cowbirds… Read, below, their latest daring signage: Dawladdaan la jirnaa… Mayyee waa kasoo horjeednaa… Ethiopian saaxiibo nahay howlahaan Kismayo ka wadnana waa isku ognahay… ONLF iyo Alqacidaan la dirirnaa… Haraadigii maxkamadahaan la dirirnay…

Baashi wrote: 1) National level dialogue is the only way out of this prolonged conflict. I will add to that the rigidity of 'no-negotiation' attitude a la 'no negotiating with daba-dhilifs; no-negotiating with terrorists' will only serve as an obstacle to systematic exploration of how best to conduct a neutral and inclusive national-level negotiation. 2) Contestants: opposing wing of H tribe leaders with UIC leaders, Coalition of diverse clans that this TFG is believed to be made up, Gedo clan, clans that are sitting on the fence waiting the outcome of the current contest between the first two, and recovery zones up north must be willing to compromise on their stated goals so that the chance of them becoming constructive interlocutors is high. I will add to that the violence we have heard through the news does not advance the ball and in a sense is a perverted form of self-realization. 3) The leaders representing different sides at the dirrin must be able to control its rank and file. 4) Foreign intervention must not interfere in the reconciliation dialogue. ^^I am with you on that...

Good that they finally addressed this tactics…

Maxkamadihii Islaamka oo beeniyay in ay ka dambeeyeen Madaafiicdii dhawaan lagu weeraray Xaafado ku yaala Muqdisho Sabti, July 21, 2007(HOL): Guddoomiyaha Guddiga Fulinta Maxkamadihii Islaamka Shiikh Shariif Shiikh Axmed ayaa sheegay in aysan Maxkamadihii Islaamka wax lug ah ku lahayn Madaafiic dhawaan lagu weeraray Xaafado ka mid ah Degmooyinka Shibis iyo C/Casiis ee Magaalada Muqdisho, iyadoo madaafiicdaasina ay sababeen dhimasho iyo dhaawac soo gaaray dad rayid ah oo aan waxba galabsan. Shiikh Shariif waxaa uu sheegay in hadafka Maxkamadihii Islaamka uusan ahayn in la dhibaateeyo dadka Soomaaliyeed, isagoo tacsi u diray qoysaskii ay ka geeriyoodeen dadkii ay ku dhaceen madaafiicdaas, wuxuuna sheegay in ay aad uga xun yihiin dhibaatada dadkaas soo gaartay. Laakin Shiikh Shariif waxaa uu sheegay in inta uu socdo halgan lagu xoreynayo dadka Soomaaliyeed ay dhici karaan dhibaatooyin soo gaara dadka, wuxuuna ugu baaqay dadka Soomaaliyeed in ay u halgamaan sidii ay dalkooda uga saari lahaayeen Cadawga ku soo duulay. Shiikh Shariif Shiikh Axmed oo u waramayay Idaacadda Somaliweyn ee Magaalada Muqdisho waxaa uu intaas ku daray in ay dalka Soomaaliya ka jiraan shirqoollo gumeysi oo aysan dadka Soomaaliyeed intiisa badan fahmi karin, “shirqoolladaas waxaa ka mid ah shir ku sheega ka socda Magaalada Muqdisho, kaasi oo caalamka loo sheegayo in la qabanayo iyadoo dadka Soomaaliyeed dhibaato loo geysanayo”ayuu yiri Shiikh Shariif Shiikh Axmed. Guddoomiyaha Guddiga Fulinta Maxkamadihii Islaamka Shiikh Shariif Shiikh Axmed waxaa uu sheegay in Dadka Muqdisho ku dhaqan lagu hayo Dil, barakicin, xabsi iyo cunaqabateyn, iyadoo sida uu yiri laga xiray Suuqyadii ay ku ganacsanayeen ee ay noloshooda ku tiirsaneyd. Mar uu ka hadlayay Shir ay bisha September ee soo socota ku qaban doonaan magaalada Asmara ee Dalka Eritrea ayaa wuxuu sheegay in ay shirkaas ka qeybgeli doonaan Ergooyin ka socda Beelaha Soomaaliyeed, isla markaana lagu dhisi doono Urur u ololeeya sidii dalka Soomaaliya loo xoreyn lahaa. SI kastaba arrintu ha ahaatee, Hadalka Shiikh Shariif ayaa wuxuu ku soo beegmayaa iyadoo madaafiic loo waday Xarunta Shirka Dib u heshiisiinta Soomaaliyeed ay ku dhaceen xaafado ka mid ah Degmooyinka C/Casiis iyo Shibis, halkaasi oo ay ku dhinteen Shan Caruur ah oo seddex ka mid ah ay!

Aah the cowbird militia acts courteously now and is no longer overseeing lootings and daylight robberies. Instead, or so this thread reports, they are wearing statesmen’s hats, and are receiving medical supplies! Wanna proof? Look at Taano’s pics ! Alas wisdom, as it were, has never been a one-day’s purchase, or was it? edit:lol@sii hayaha gobolka Jubbada hoose.

Wallee Ethiopia soomaali fahamtay; markay Puntland tagaan maraakiib gaashaamaan baan idin siinaynaa bay ku tiraahdaa markay Somaliland tagtana dekedahaan casriyeynaa bay tiraahdaa markay Xamar joogtanna arga-gixisaday la dirirtaa, midwalbaana sidiisu happy ku yahay! Cajaa'ib sheekhow!

Baashi---The venue of this conference is not important really. The conference itself is a failure from reconciliation perspective; whether delegates stay put amid Mogadishu’s terrifying violence will in the end mean nothing for the Somali people. The fact those who are fighting tfg and Ethiopian forces in Xamar boycotted it deems the whole thing, as one Somali commentator put it, a badly composed theatrical. Miyeeysan Somalidu inay wada hadlaan dani ku jirin, you may ask! Absolutely! Odoyaal masaakiin waa lasoo shirin karaa. Waxay oran lahaayeen waa loo meerin karaa. Laakiin Baashow xareed aan cirka ka iman dhulka lagama cabbo, as the Somali sayings goes! Haddii nimankani nabad rabaanna ha tixgeliyeen codsiyadda mucaaradkoodu soo jeediyey hana oofiyeen shuruudaha macquulka ee lagu xiray, the cardinal one being Ethiopia’s withdrawal from Somalia. Who’s going to keep the peace if Ethiopia withdraws is a legit q? We can discuss that but before that one needs to concede that point, namely as long Ethiopia is on Somali soil peace will remain elusive and afar! Midda kale, there is an element of justice that’s missing from the whole thing, and without it our conflict will only deepen! I also find quite trivial to talk about the success of this shir for we know people who gathered there inaysan ahayn dadka colaadu ka dhaxayso…we also know that agendaha laga hadlayyo inuusan siyaasad shuqul ku lahayn…what are the challenges before this conference that its supposed to resolve in order for us to merit it success or failure. There is none! If tfg gets enough delegates in that venue, feeds them and shelters them, tries to keep them safe from the mortars, by tgs standards, the conference succeeds, and it will declare it as such! Is that it yaa Baashi?

Originally posted by Northerner: quote:Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^Tells us all about it yaa Northern ! ps--that would change this topic too~~ All to me revealed soon enough Xiinow. Caano geel baa xagan ii yaale, iga raali ahow ^^web markaan ka siiya indhaha wahab ka duulaaye ....ka dherag them camel milks...markaasaad si fiican ragga ugu warrami doontaaye'e!

Liqaye, lets make the follow of discussion simple! What I think we agree on: 1- This tfg and its Ethiopian handlers must be opposed and fought against. 2- This conference is farce will not produce anything. 3- Since this conference is sham intended to milk donor countries, it must be opposed and discredited, lest it gives the impression of the tfg being a legitimate entity that’s reconciling clans! 4- One way is to boycott it and not attend it. What we seem to disagree on. 1- Another way to discredit it is to target at those who come to attend it. ^^I disagree that adeer. I believe I listed the whys of my disagreement. Fair?

^^Tells us all about it yaa Northern ! ps--that would change this topic too~~

^^Baashow, Lugar, like Hagel before him, and some other republicans are getting it now. And it’s making a big deference. But Buchanan has been there from the get go. He stood on his ground and never compromised on his political philosophy as it regards how to approach the Middle East conflict! 2 thumps up for Buchanan! Maanta odogu wuxuu leeyahay America waa qaxi doontaa! And i think that's what is gonna happen!

Welcome back yaa Baashe! Very important indeed but for whom adeer? For Somalis? Or for tfg & Ethiopia? Tfg staked much on this conference. But it got the basics wrong. If you think this gathering is any thing but a mere political maneuvering from the top boys of this entity, you owe me some enlightenment on this issue adeer! To say it's a farce is understatement Baashow! Shinbirayahow heesa, Hesa heesa heease, Hees wanaagsan heese Halkan soo fariista oo kaalaya hortayda La dur-duri Baashow.

^^ You are not selfish;i think you are just smart. Waxbaa kaa kala daadsan oo intaad is ururinaysid dani kuuguma jirto inay bahashu kugu dul jabto !

July 20, 2007 This Is How Empires End by Patrick J. Buchanan Responding to the call of Pope Urban II at Claremont in 1095, the Christian knights of the First Crusade set out for the Holy Land. In 1099, Jerusalem was captured. As their port in Palestine, the Crusaders settled on Acre on the Mediterranean. There they built the great castle that was overrun by Saladin in 1187, but retaken by Richard the Lion-Hearted in 1191. Acre became the capital of the Kingdom of Jerusalem and the stronghold of the Crusader state, which fell to the Mameluks in a bloody siege in 1291. The Christians left behind were massacred. The ruins of Acre are now a tourist attraction. Any who have visited this last outpost of Christendom in the Holy Land before Gen. Allenby marched into Jerusalem in 1917 cannot – on reading of the massive U.S. embassy rising in Baghdad – but think of Acre. At a cost of $600 million, with walls able to withstand mortar and rocket fire, and space to accommodate 1,000 Americans, this mammoth embassy, largest on earth, will squat on the banks of the Tigris inside the Green Zone. But, a decade hence, will the U.S. ambassador be occupying this imperial compound? Or will it be like the ruins of Acre? What raises the question is a sense the United States, this time, is truly about to write off Iraq as a lost cause. The Republican lines on Capitol Hill are crumbling. Starting with Richard Lugar, one GOP senator after another has risen to urge a drawdown of U.S. forces and a diplomatic solution to the war. But this is non-credible. How can U.S. diplomats win at a conference table what 150,000 U.S. troops cannot secure on a battlefield? Though Henry Kissinger was an advocate of this unnecessary war, he is not necessarily wrong when he warns of "geopolitical calamity." Nor is Ryan Crocker, U.S. envoy in Iraq, necessarily wrong when he says a U.S. withdrawal may be the end of the American war, but it will be the start of bloodier wars in Iraq and across the region. Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari also warns of the perils of a rapid withdrawal: "The dangers vary from civil war to dividing the country to regional wars ... the danger is huge. Until the Iraqi forces and institutions complete their readiness, there is a responsibility on the U.S. and other countries to stand by the Iraqi government and the Iraqi people to help build up their capabilities." In urging a redeployment of U.S. forces out of Iraq, and a new focus on diplomacy, Lugar listed four strategic goals. Prevent creation of a safe haven for terrorists. Prevent sectarian war from spilling out into the broader Middle East. Prevent Iran's domination of the region. Limit the loss of U.S. credibility through the region and world as a result of a failed mission in Iraq. But how does shrinking the U.S. military power and presence in Iraq advance any of these goals? Longtime critics of the war like Gen. William Odom say it is already lost, and fighting on will only further bleed the country and make the ultimate price even higher. The general may be right in saying it is time to cut our losses. But we should take a hard look at what those losses may be. It is a near certainty the U.S.-backed government will fall and those we leave behind will suffer the fate of our Vietnamese and Cambodian friends in 1975. As U.S. combat brigades move out, contractors, aid workers and diplomats left behind will be more vulnerable to assassination and kidnapping. There could be a stampede for the exit and a Saigon ending in the Green Zone. The civil and sectarian war will surely escalate when we go, with Iran aiding its Shi'ite allies and Sunni nations aiding the Sunnis. A breakup of the country seems certain. Al-Qaeda will claim it has run the U.S. superpower out of Iraq and take the lessons it has learned to Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states. The Turks, with an army already on the border, will go in to secure their interests in not having the Kurdish PKK operating from Iraq and in guaranteeing there is no independent Kurdistan. What will America do then? As for this country, the argument over who is responsible for the worst strategic debacle in American history will be poisonous. With a U.S. defeat in Iraq, U.S. prestige would plummet across the region. Who will rely on a U.S. commitment for its security? Like the British and French before us, we will be heading home from the Middle East. What we are about to witness is how empires end. COPYRIGHT CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.

Brother Liqaye, firstly welcome back! The gist of this gathering is to get some funds from the parties of this conflict! This conference is not going to legitimize this tfg! But that’s neither her nor there! I am all for attacking Ethiopian occupiers and their lackeys. But they do have military bases, they reside in Villa Somalia; some even have their own mansions. There are symbols that represent this entity, and people recognize and know it! Adeer the fact Ethiopia occupies Xamar and tfg claims authority in it does not mean every body who is in there and does not see things as we do is a target! It can’t be adeer! Somalis are very hasty people! You want descridit this conference, habbeen walba huwi a barrage of hoobiyaal at that defunct Villa. Continue with what the resistance has been doing which was to target Ethiopian convoys and logistical supplies. Get rid of the low level operatives who lead the enemy into people’s houses and mosques. But for Gods sake, don’t tell me killing odoyaal who came from a distant land is going to buy us anything!

Originally posted by The Duke: More children killed for the Asmara criminals to make headlines. Disgusting ^^That act is certainly a tragic one in many ways, not least that it damages those who genuinely fight against Ethiopia and against those who claimed to have given it the invite! But that you of all people who was quite jubilant in the Juba massacre, and equally so in the last fight in Xamar, and even paraded the pictures of the dead shabaabs objects it is the drill here! Yours is coming from the wrong cavity. Really!

Kashafow, Aabbow xaqaygii ma deyn,igana duugoowye Nimankii ikhwaankii dilaa meel dhow soo degaye Dabka xalay Badweyn iiga baxay,waan ku diirsadaye Said Ismail Mire, one of the most reputable military leaders of the Darwiish movement! It was a poem, well composed and in a seemingly celebratory tone, that meant to communicate to Sayid Mohamed an act of war against a clan that was counted amongst those that oppose the struggle against Western and Ethiopian occupation. Before, this clan killed our brother, mujaahid X! Now they come unaware of our strength, weak and exposed! And we must take revenge for him! Argued Ismail Mire. Sayid Mohamed objected to Ismail’s political approach (he did not say anything about his military strategy, mind you), and being the Master of poets he was, he retorted to the following verses: Ismaaciil Mirow taladu waa, eyddin kaa maqane Maandhow umuurtaadu waa, ababa'deediiye Maandhow adduun wuxuu ahaan, waadan idihayne Maandhoow aqoonxumadu waa, ku ambinaysaaye Maandhow aqliga hayska lumin Eebbahay magane Maandhow raggii aakhiraad,igu ohomsiine Maandhow sidii ibilka way,ololineysaaye Maandhow waxaad igu akhriyi, uurkutaallada e Maandhow ikhwaankii ma deyn,urugadiisiye Maandhow alleylkii dhaxaan,alaladaayaaye Maandhow ilmada hayga qubin, kaa afeeftamaye Maandhow nin umal saaqayoo,uurxun baan ahaye Waxaan awlaxuu rabinaya,aarsi dirireede Maandhow awaal dagatay baan, aawilahayaaye Maandhow ducaaliyo Ammaan, waayey araggoode Maandhow kuwii iga ajalay, waa orkaa bixiye Aniguba ayaamaan lahaa,ha isallaweene Maandhow abaabaan ku wadi, abadankeygiiye Maandhow dadkaad eriday baan,ururinaayaane Maandhow "ooho" baan oran sidii aaran baadiyahe ….. Maandhow ixsaan lagama tago eed haddaad faliye Maandhow ninkaad iniqdo waa, ku oggalaadaaye Maandhow hadaan inamo,raro wey i aaminiye! ^^Allow kuu naxariiso! I am equally not convinced, brother! ‘Ciil bixid’ ala Somali tribal style is something that I can understand, though I would not agree to it! But resorting to bombardments at, seemingly, innocent targets as a strategy to drive Ethiopian troops out of Mogadishu is fundamentally flawed and will not yield any positive results! Specifically targeting at the said gathering is a blunder in the first order! First before one fires random hoobiyaal at the gathering one needs to do little reasoning! Who are you targeting and what are you achieving by targeting them? Who: Somali traditional leaders who for one reason or another thought it’s a worthwhile to be there! The list includes known clan leaders whose anti-Ethiopian stances throughout the Somali civil war is beyond dispute. There are those who supported the Courts and were very supportive of them! Both Ugaasyo of Beledweyne and Gedo are reportedly there, two men whom if I am not mistaken were quite supportive of Courts movement, and still are if so silently! There are also those well meaning leaders from Bay and Bakool. And unless one practices the doctrine of guilty by association there are also those from Puntland who are there with good intentions! Not to mention the ones from Mogadishu and its environs. So brother identifying who is actually there helps you consider the political calculus that comes about as a result of your actions. When one knows these facts, one agrees at least in this instance that the one size fits all dogma (namely these Isimis are in cahoots with tfg so they are a fair game as far as the struggle against Ethiopia is concern) goes out of the window! For what objectives? These bombardments help expose, it could be argued, the following: the fact that Mogadishu is not safe comes to the forefront of Somalia’s political reality. As a result US realize that Ethiopia has not been a good bet to do its dirty job of fighting imaginary terror networks in Somalia. Consequently the project either aborts or its scope creeps, hence it becomes unsupportable = tfg dies by default! Or better yet the world that silently endorses this entity including Europe and America significantly considers their role in Somalia’s political stalemate, and withdraws their financial support for Ethiopia and tfg. Ethiopia goes home with its tail behind its back and tfg disperses and disappears! You see all these are plausible scenarios. I don’t really argue with it, or with those who reasonably work for it to happen. By what cost do the resistance willing to pay to achieve these probable goals. Perhaps by killing known traditional leaders and risking the anger that could potentially ensues, as the result of their death, from their clan member, their constituencies! Imagine this scenario; a resistance fighter fires a hoobiyye and the projectile homes on in the said venue killing number of Ugaasis and Malaaqis! Aside from the predictable uproar from the dead men’s clans, would it not also be a great propaganda tool for the tfg to depict their opposition as mindless and desperate beings that spare no soul! To be sure it’s going to be a showstopper---managing a direct hit on the conference and causing casualties! But whose show does it stop yaa Kashafa? That of the tfg, or that of the resistance’s? In there, I find the irony of this whole strategy! Now I perfectly find legitimate to target both the Ethiopian military basis and the top leaders of this entity---they must reap what they sow! In the name of restoring law and order they have caused irreparable damage to our national psychic! One argument I am not buying is this: because they, the tfg and its handlers, do it in the most inhuman way imaginable [abducting entire families and sending them to Ethiopian prisons for further torture] and mercilessly target at the business infrastructures of specific communities therefore that justifies these attempts to kill delegates who came on their behest! I am not buying it because it does not really stick! It’s the means and approaches that I object and not the goals themselves adeer! And they do really matter!

^^Which part of my rant do you think got me there ? I think Courts are being torn apart by desperate and angry entities whose only link is the opposition of Ethiopia and tfg! And sooner or latter they need to make a distinction of what is a legitimate target adeer! I don’t doubt that there is genuine movement that sacrifices both life and limbs to get Ethiopia out of Somalia---but the strategy of it must be honed a bit for them to succeed! In this round, I think Courts acted foolishly by threatening they will target the gathering venue of this conference! For what---to show that Xamar lacks security! Or to prevent America and Europe from supporting Ethiopia and tfg ! The first one needs no proof, and the second one is quite duplicitous! So what is the fuss! War dadkii isixi jirey markaan wareero meeyye?

I think the wadaads need to distance themselves from those who act desperately as though the world is coming to an abrupt end! Targeting these odoyaal is not going to benefit anyone really. They may not share the political views or have same political stand as the opposition groups made but they are not certainly the enemy! Besides here is some logical fallacy to note: if you really think this shir is sham as I do and that it wont achieve what Somalia needs today, why worry who attends it or who doesn’t attend it? If you believe this shir was orchestrated not by the tfg but by the powers that helped Ethiopia occupy the south, and by extension helped tfg , then what is it that you fear that the outcome of such a sham conference would change as far as the current political variables are concern? Perhaps there could be some money that will be given to the tfg! That too shouldn’t be a source of great concern for they do give money to the tfg today, and it didn’t help buy it the legitimacy it so badly desires! I don’t understand. I think Courts are being outplayed here---they seem to be holed up down in Asmara without much political activities. That Geedi went to Saudi Arabia shows even traditional Court allies are showing signs of wavering! There are certainly a lot of factors to this resistance force against Ethiopia. But the genuinely inspired movements needs to speak out more often with a sense of direction and clear strategy towards achieving the goal of driving Ethiopia out of Somalia! Their silence seems to endorse some of the mindless violence that goes on in Xamar like targeting bunch of odoyaal who were collected and gathered by powers that be! What this movement needs, in my opinion, is a flexible political wing that can sit down with the devil so to speak, and a ruthless military wing that can squeeze some victories out of what’s a difficult area to operate in, Xamar! They need to campaign and lobby in the Arab and Muslim capitals, and not just sit there in Asmara and ally themselves with questionable characters like Aydid ! Allow ma iri~~~

^^Neither do I know for sure adeer, if not any other than the sheer fact that I have never been to the place itself! But if the reports I get are anything to go by, Puntland is deeply plagued by a fleecing spree! The contest has been on for some time now, not to develop Puntland mind you, but to rip off its natural resources for pure personal gains as the shady arrangements/deals with foreign companies manifestly attest to! Putting Puntland’s current admin in the context of recent political/economic development, or lack therof, in that region, one wonders how is it that one awards what’s evidently an ineffective administration a certificate of good governance? I’ve recently met a doctor who came back from Puntland, and though he showered praise with that regions’ entrepreneurial trends and positively appraised the noticeable strides its business people made, when it come to the admin itself he was, to put it mildly, not quite enthusiastic about it. I have also read a UN report (I have posted snippets of it here on SOL) and the statistics that were cited there on both SL and PL were quite dire. Put all these things (cilmi-dhegood + status report from UN) together, and I can’t really see how Cadde’s admin (of all admins) could win a certificate of good governance! The man, though he comes across as a good man as a person, sucks as a politician. Incompetent. Unprincipled. Utterly misinformed. And at times, simply foolish! His admin: bunch of greedy men who sat their eyes on Puntland’s natural resources! ^^Sweeping generalization as the above lines may sound, that is how I currently feel about PL current admin! So which one is it? If I were a betting man, I would bet on the latter! So there you have it, yaa SW; Xiin at the end votes with the good Professor!

^^Adna ma ku haysaa , adeer? Warmooge wax ma yaqaan baa ka liita, Gordonow!

Which one is it yaa SW?

Zonobia, You cant be that innocent to assume SOL debates, no matter in which section they occur, could be void of political undertones! In fact I share with Me’s sentiment, namely the gist of this thread was not to advance Boodheri’s literary genius or his national repute! As I said Somaliland is a political reality and no one with sanity wishes it away. But dadkan Me iska baac-baacsanayya ee marku object gareeyo their weak political ideology wax baad necebtahay lasoo booddayya ayyaan waranka u waddey! Innaad iqabatay oo say kula ahayd, (and you were right when one considers narrowly the merits of this story), aad ii sheegtay ayyaad horta gar ku yeelatay adeer! Me, ninka la yiraahdu wuxuu gar ku helay bay being on top of this game and objecting to the implied propaganda. Taasi waa taas. As for Somaliweyn iyo sida loogu daalay, wixii fiican oo dhan baa lagu daalla adeer ! Midda kale, anigu awalba rasaas badan ma haysan (xabad keliyyaan ridaa waxbayna dishaa ) laakiin yaan lagaa maqal Me baa rasaas ka dhammaataa....