...Somaliland nagu filan iyagana Putland ku filan Inaan Barwaaqadayada wada joogno oo aanu wax isku darsano ayaan doonaynaa...

I can’t help but admire Oodweyne’s uprising to the hegemony of Castro’s logic ! ps-Xoogsade soo dhawoow adeer!

Geedi is very smart in his political calculations. And as i predicted, he will not die quitly.

^^Geeljire was more hip than this fatah-al-soomaal ! fatih al_suumaal ?

^^He's trying to say the samething but sees some value in sarcasms...

North, tell us what you think did REALLY happened in LA! One can’t help here but notice who’s resorting to pregnant statements to avoid discussing what I see a a potential civil war in the north ! NGONGE, I think what LA conflict will do is two things. 1) It will make Somaliland entity part of the Somali civil war. 2) It will highlight, as a consequence of this act, the need for a comprehensive approach to the Somali tragedy. But again may be I am thinking out loud , as you put it ! ps--PL is already part of the civil war.

Lest we lose the big picture... By Justin Raimondo October 19, 2007 Why is the U.S. subsidizing and supporting murder, rape, and systematic ethnic cleansing in the Horn of Africa? The reason: it's all part of our strategy for "victory" in the "war on terrorism." The village of Kamuda – a remote outpost in the ****** region of eastern Ethiopia, where the majority are Muslims and ethnically Somali – had some unexpected visitors last June, when a platoon of Ethiopian soldiers showed up, announcing their arrival by shooting their rifles into the air – and demanding to know why the villagers had been providing food and safe haven to rebels from the ****** National Liberation Front (ONLF). With no satisfactory answer forthcoming, the soldiers took action: they picked out seven young ladies, between the ages of 15 and 18, and dragged them off into the bush. Three were later found hanging from trees, beaten to death. The rest simply disappeared. This "anti-terrorist" activity is funded by you, the American taxpayer. It comes out of the $97 million in aid we sent to Addis Ababa this year, including the military surplus and training we provide to the Ethiopian military, which is rampaging through Somalia as well as the ****** region. The invasion of Somalia by Ethiopian troops – held up by the American right-wing as an example of how the U.S. ought to be conducting its own "anti-terrorist" operations – has collapsed into a welter of confusion and looming disaster, as the "government" set up by the Ethiopians implodes and the Muslim insurgency shakes Mogadishu, the Somali capital. Amid the rising chaos, Somalian "government" troops recently stormed the UN World Food Program headquarters, and detained the chief official, Idris Osman: the reasons for this were unclear, but thuggishness is a general principle with the current U.S.-backed rulers of this desolate, tortured land, and perhaps it was just a reminder to people that no one is immune from random acts of violence by the government. As the Ethiopian- and U.S.-backed Somalian "government" of warlords and criminal gangs rampages through the streets of Mogadishu, and throughout the country, murdering, looting, and raping, the U.S. signals its approval. Indeed, the U.S. has given its backing to Ethiopia. As the Independentreports: "America's top official on African affairs, assistant secretary of state, Jendayi Frazer, visited one town in the ****** last month. On her return to Ethiopia's capital, Addis Ababa, she criticised the rebels and said the reports of military abuses were merely allegations. "We urge any and every government to respect human rights and to try to avoid civilian casualties but that's difficult in dealing with an insurgency." U.S. backing for the Ethiopian "former" communist dictator Meles Zenawi – who ordered a "recount" of Ethiopia's last poll until he got a more satisfactory result – was a reaction to the sudden rise of an Islamic court system in Somalia, where complete disorder reigned until Muslim fundamentalists filled the power vacuum and set up their own decentralized system that imposed sharia law, yet made the area liveable once more, and received the support of what remained of Somalia's business community. In faraway Washington, however, this news was received with something less than enthusiasm: al-Qaeda was moving into Somalia, they decided, and it was time to move. U.S. military personnel stationed in Mogadishu are said to be directing the regime's military operations against the Muslim guerrillas, who were pushed out during the Ethiopian invasion but have infiltrated back in and now control much of the capital city. A phony "national reconciliation accord" has been sponsored by the Saudis, but this is a farce, considering that none of the insurgents were invited. A rival conference, held in Eritrea – which provides safe haven and aid to the insurgents – denounced the proceedings. So much for "national reconciliation." An equally phony bill that is supposed to call attention to the dire situation in Somalia has been introduced in Congress by Rep. Donald Payne (D-New Jersey): it's phony because it simply addresses the lack of "democracy" in Ethiopia, demands that the Ethiopians submit to foreign overseers who will measure their "progress" and release aid conditional on the "success" of the program, and the deal-breaker is that the legislation has several loopholes in it big enough to drive a couple of Ethiopian tanks through. For one, Bush can simply waive the bill's requirements, and, secondly, the military component of U.S. aid is exempted. In short, even if the bill passes the Senate – unlikely – those Ethiopian soldiers who terrorized the villagers of Kamuda will still be subsidized and succored by American taxpayers, even as they continue rampaging through the ******, and Somalia. The history of our intervention in the Horn of Africa is a case study in what not to do, and how to hurt our own interests, in the guise of "fighting terrorism," and I've covered that here, here, and here. The latest chapter in the region's long agony merely confirms the original diagnosis: that U.S. intervention creates new problems instead of solving old ones. U.S. intervention has put us in the same corner with one of the most savagely repressive governments in Africa, which is saying quite a lot. Ethiopian strongman Mele Zenawi fits in rather neatly with Washington's foreign policy: he's a bit of a neocon himself – a "reformed" Marxist who went from hailing the late Enver Hoxha, the dictator of Stalinist Albania, as the leader of the world revolution against capitalism, to hailing George W. Bush as the world's leader in the "war on terrorism." Some are comparing the slaughter in the ****** and Somalia to what's happening in Darfur, and, ironically, we'll probably be hearing calls by the "humanitarian" interventionist set for the U.S. and/or the UN to "do something," i.e. send in the troops or intervene in some meaningful way. The big flaw in these sorts of proposals is that we've already intervened – our guys are in Mogadishu, directing much of the fighting – and that is precisely the cause of the problem. The toll taken by our efforts has, so far, been enormous: hundreds of thousands uprooted, tens of thousands killed, and the prospect of worse to come. There is only one "solution" to the developing genocide in the Horn of Africa, and it is this: get the U.S. out, end all aid to the Ethiopian government, and immediately airlift our aid workers and American civilians out of the area. Will this solve all the region's problems? Hardly. The ethnic, religious, and clan-based conflicts that are roiling the Horn are not amenable to any easy solution, and certainly not one imposed by Washington. Many problems don't have any "solution," and whatever hope exists for the region – longterm economic development, the rational exploitation of oil resources, the liberalization of the neo-Stalinist regimes that infest the area – is gong to be nipped in the bud rather than nurtured by our clumsy attempts to mold events to our liking.

^^Hunguri, haddoo kale ayey ugu wacan tahay...dadku waa arkaan in hoggaankoodii fashilmay. Haddii caqli jiro labada nin ee arrinka gacanta ku hasytey waa inay tagaan, ama la muddeeyaa tagidooda! Waa haddii meesha wanaag laga rabo! Waqti ka fiican maanta iyo fursad ka muddan midna soo mari mayso in labadan nin ee bad iyo berriba beeciyey la yiraahdo na daayya! And they are very weak too..

Ayoub has confused himself beyond remedy! Must be more than the fall of LA that got him all worked up … ps Well reasoned, Che and Juje!

That was a timorous response yaa Redka! You are fundamentally misled about the whole thing adeer! These were peaceful clans coexisting…these clans traded stability with incompetent leaders. Now one of them decided to rock the boat…I think in the end it will be a positive thing for Somali unity! As for Puntland and my stance on it, I thought I was clear on that score! Seems that you have taken my objections against separatism in your neck of the wood to mean endorsement for Cadde’s Puntland! Simply put, Puntland is corrupt, treacherous, and, in many ways, a symbol of stoogism! The idea behind it,for the most part, was a defensive measure to protect the clan groupings that inhabit it, absence of a central state. It was abused and utterly misused! And as a political entity it’s dead in my estimation. But the people [or the clan If you like] is/will be there, and may they prosper and live in peace! In the context of LA conflict, you need not be mistaken adeer! No matter how one intellectualize it, it’s clear and apparent that secessionists want to secure the old British colonial border to satisfy the notion of Somaliland’s territorial integrity, a phantom country called Somaliland that is! That’s what you get when you reduce this argument to its basic premise, and it’s flawed, and wrong too, in my books! Welise waad ku rafanaysaa...saadanbaadse garan…

Well come back yaa Castro! As you aptly recapped, the current stoogism that goes on today is but a mere chapter albeit a sad one in the larger struggle in the region! At stake is the survival of the Somali identity. But I firmly believe, as it was evident in the brief six months Courts were in control, Somalis will refuse the status quo. What is happening in the North today is, in a good measure, the beginning of the rejection of the status quo! Somaliland might have struck the wrong target but the fact it erupted with anger is a clear indication that her elusive goal of independence proved politically unfeasible. The same is true with Puntland---stoogism has bought them nothing but a disgraceful defeat! Need I say more about Baydhabo, Mogadishu, Kismayo or the status of the tfg itself? Despite all the tragedies and casualties, and dear losses of lives and limbs, the objectives of the enemy and its plans have been thwarted. In my estimation, at this point of time, the lyrics, as it were, is much better than its cheerless music…at least this political attitude of shameless stoogism has peaked and is bound to fall down! Khayr IA.

^^ You are really making a distinction without a difference adeer! Don’t get me wrong Redka! I like you and appreciate your genuine stances against Ethiopia’s influence on our affairs. I really do. Unlike most of the other landers here, you and brother Northern have more than once expressed deep brotherly sentiment. And I respect that. But to cut the chase here and without emotional fanfare, let me offer you a decent exit out of this lingering suspect as where your loyalty lies. Do you support Riyaale’s current incursion in SOOL under the pretext of locals are with us? Locals you know too well are small minority in that large clan grouping, and opportunistic at that. And if you can get to this,[edit] what is the chief difference in your mind between the one who calls Ethiopian tanks in order to ascend to a feeble power, and the one who hands over his own people to the Ethiopians in order to keep the little power he has?

Originally posted by AYOUB: quote:Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Xattaa Boosaaso yaa Jamaacah? Are we sure this not Oodweyne's army? You're beginning to sound like Nayruus. If you don't get a grip and contain yourself, the "paranoid trio" will become a quartet. ^^ Taking my rubber bullets for Oodweyne eh! With that forceful interjection of yours, you are proving to be more militant than I imagined you would be Ayoubow ! Unlike you, I am fortunate enough to see the big picture in all of this. Unlike you I don’t believe any clan groupings, like Somaliland truly is, will hold on to other’s clan’s lands in the name of an imaginary state!

Cadde’s allegations need no denying from the Asmara team! Nin daad qaaday xunbo cuskay weeye tiisu…when he can’t be a man and confront his foes, he looks for a convenient scapegoat. Invoking anti-terror clichés will not distort the facts on the ground!

^^Hunguri, wth this level of incompetence in Puntland, I have little doubt the secessionist army will have no difficulty arming another sub-clan and getting their way! Puntland rag bay makhaayad u ahayd intii muddoba ahayd, they will have to lose it first I suppose for the average people to feel that they actually have stake in its stability. Cadde and Afqurac must go, or Puntland will only go down, and not up with any measurable degree! ps--my knowledge about the region is very scant, but I have a feeling that the political grievance is so great that the commons see no value in this entity as it’s!

He is neither traitor nor hero. He’s a classic political opportunist.

Ayoub, are you denying that SL admin has handed over ONLF folks to Ethiopia? A simple yes or no will suffice!

Xattaa Boosaaso yaa Jamaacah? Are we sure this not Oodweyne's army? Waa walaaqantahay wallee!

Good grief yaa Oodweyne! Your ceaseless banter since the fall of LA begged a harsh retort however. I take you as a student of Somali literature, and Faytani’s famous lines were what I was after. Hal garawshalaa Saahidow gobi la yeedhaaye’e! Don’t tear your garments over it or gnash your teeth for I have not suspected your lineage! It’s your manners and attitudes as you displayed them here and conducted your worth that I meant to reproach! Even if you ascribe to it more than it was actually meant, I am counting on your little victory whose affect you have been thus far unable to handle with grace to sort of intoxicate you from resorting to vulgarity! PS--It goes without saying that NGONGE was more judicious than I in his response!

Brother sophist , you didn’t have to do this; I would rather have you disappear quietly! It has been the norm of the Somali civil war that peaceful cities get sat ablaze and its communities subjected to unwarranted exodus, hunger and disease. LA, it now seems, is no exception. Somaliland however won’t hold it for long. You will regain again IA. I hope your own family and relatives are all well and safe. It will be Khayr Allah willing. As for Oodweyne’s gaffe, take it as a low-grade dig, and the banter of the lowborn…Wax ka fal mooyee, as it were, wax ka dhihid ma leh! Wa salaam!

^^If you did not get my point already I am suggesting the points you raised are frankly irrelevant to the issue at hand. The political stoogism you implied exists everywhere. The leaders that practice it do not have a particular clan nor belong to a specific region. Puntland has produced leaders that are guilty of many crimes. And there’s no escaping from that fact. Now what we are talking about is the fall of LA, the dramatic invasion of SL army under the pretext of ‘locals are with us’, and the war that’s being planned! The locals, on both legal and moral grounds, have rejected Somaliland’s claim, with its current platform of separatism, on this region. Bribing few mercenaries will not change that political reality. If you insist on understanding why this community is not part of your secessionism project, you need to learn some history. Dismembering Somalia on the basis on political grievances or, even worse, on the painful colonial legacy is not a popular proposition in those regions. And I am not making this up adeer. The bond this community has with Boosaaso clans is quite natural, and, with the absence of Somali state, constitutes the default political arrangement in that region. To ignore all these facts and merely fall for few shifty personalities with sizable militia is a desperate act, and quite frankly dangerous. That you want to intellectualize this silly episode is deceitful really yaa Ayoub! As long the issue of separatism drives your whole political spirit you just cant compete the loyalty and support of SOOL and SANAAG communities with Puntland, no matter how many opportunistic personalities you succeed to put in Somaliland’s column. I am still praying for peace, and hoping the Riyaale admin will somehow become sensible, and give up on this dangerous gamble. But I can tell from what I am hearing, this could ignite a wider civil war in both inside PL and between PL and SL! And Somalis do not need that!

Originally posted by AYOUB: Interesting, very interesting.... 2. ...I didn't see this much wailing when Cadde Muuse and Yey brought Ethio troops to Gaalkacyo. I didn't see this much wailing when US bombers were dropping bombs in Bari on behalf of the above no so gentle men? Toxic waste dumping? Deforestation? Apart from clannish pride, what the argument against Somaliland? Or may be you have not heard one condemning Somaliland’s treacherous act on behalf of the Master itself yaa Ayoub 3 days ago ? Adeer you are being pathetic here with your reasoning. I suggest you celebrate in secret , and out of this public forum, if all you can muster as a justification of your entity’s capture of LA is what you wrote above!

^^Khalaf is not in denial of that. He is rightly suggesting that past mistakes are irrelevant in this case; Somaliland, with the help of small (by all accounts) mercenaries who share neither blood nor ideology with it, has captured the city, and it’s quite gullible of it that it heeded that group’s calls. One should not labor on whether Puntland’s leaders are corrupt or not if one sees the threat LA’s fall could pose to the unity of Somalia on a one hand, and the stability of the region itself on the other hand! This is a serious matter as we are talking about war here. The last thing I expected there was an open war breaking out of the region. To be honest with you guys this has produced audible clannish sentiments that I have rarely heard in where I live. It has taken the oxygen out of other conflicts in certain circles. There has been, and there continue to be, gatherings and fundraising activities all around the Diaspora and a significant number of Somali community feel that their investment and stability has been unjustly disrupted. I feel their pain. I sympathize with them! Lest my posts give slightest impression of neutrality in this conflict in its current fashion, I am not. I want LA to return to Puntland groupings in the clannish sense, as Oodweyne would say. It’s their city and as far as I am concern SL has nothing to do with it. Discounting of course dreams about a phantom state whose borders would extend to and be erected on yesteryears colonial sketches. Such dreams are quite dangerous really. I would rather have larger groupings of Somalis than small enclaves, and I though PL and SL formula was not bad at all. The rest of the country is ablaze especially my hometown and the place I grew up, and I don’t wish for other stable regions to catch this fire. It’s really sad. If you feel the way I do, pray for peace and just resolution for this city and its community. And if it comes to war, be on the side of the LA folks as long they are fighting to retain for what’s theirs! Wa salaam yaa Jamaacah!

^^To be fair though Ethiopia is doing what any nation would have done to its enemy! Ethiopia is taking advantage of a great opportunity that presented itself to her. She’s essentially dividing and manipulating a collapsed enemy of her. To do so is the oldest trick in the colonial books! Ethiopia did not invent it. But of course we are justified with anger and fury against her for it’s the direct effect of its policies that exacerbated and deepened our conflict. Gullible are those who fell for her!

^^That PM has done wonders or you are deliberately misleading us to believe so! I think it was a cursed PM !