Maashaa Allaah what a great discussion! Thank you Liqaye for offering the intellectual gown my initial thoughts of destabilizing Ethiopia needed! I don’t, at the moment, have the time needed to participate in this thread in a meaningful manner, as I would like. But suffice to say that everyone in this discussion in one way or another acknowledged that Ethiopia in the context of the Somali civil war is a major problem that needs overcoming. Of course ideas as to how to tackle this problem differ, and that’s not bad at all! I am really impressed by how genuinely ideas are put forth, issues weighed in, and alternatives to this ambitious strategy are suggested and considered. As I said before I do agree with Baashi on the political and the moral necessity of reconciling Somalis. There are no guarantees that it will work or produce any tangible results. But I don’t see any harm in trying it as long the agenda of such talks encompasses all the hot button issues, including the question of Ethiopia’s political influence and military intervention. If the resistance does not have such diplomatic wing to talk to Somalis whose current political tendency is the cause of Ethiopian triumph over us, I do believe it’s missing one of the biggest ingredient of success for if they only fight and fight to defeat Ethiopia in Xamar without having broad strategy (and a peaceful one at that) to deal with other Somalis the dabodhilifs if you will then it’s apparent to me resistance’s wins would not transcend beyond the small victories they are fated to be! Reconciling Somalis or the majority of them should be one of the milestones in the struggle to remove this extensional threat that Ethiopia in its current form and strategy represents. There is nothing to lose in talking to other Somalis. Period. Those who are currently in the Ethiopian column politically should be the one refusing this offer, and not the resistance leaders. Any meaningful strategy whose aim is to revive the Somali republic must consider how to deal with Ethiopia. In my mind there two options out there for us to consider. One option would be to listen to Ethiopia’s concerns, both economic and political concerns, and a give a serious consideration to reasonably address them in a manner that alleviates her fears of us. And that’s to say to our selves lets not beat around the bush here and face the harsh reality that’s before us, lets give Ethiopia what it wants and desires. Give up the claim on the Somali region in Ethiopia. Sign a peace pact with Ethiopia. Provide her an easy access to our harbors and ports. And accept the junior role in the horn affairs such arrangements entail. In my mind we still have too viable a economic and intellectual resource, still able to muster regional and global alliances, and have a non-dying nationalistic and religious surge to build on to accept such a humiliating position as it regards our relationship with Ethiopia. The second option is to be creative in defeating Ethiopia and take advantage of its ethnic composition. There are set of facts on the ground that could help us to realize that goal as Liqaye aptly enumerated. But adopting this strategy starts with the acknowledgment that the fuel of our civil war is the Ethiopia’s negative influence on our affairs. We must see our people as victims of a grand scheme orchestrated by an incompetent leadership that is particularly bred to collaborate with Ethiopia in exacerbating our differences to deepen our conflict. If we really see it that way then our anger would be directed not at clan fulaan or dabodhilif fulaan but at the real perpetrators, namely Ethiopia! Excuse my digression yaa Jamacaah! Other than clarifying my positon on the peace talks I am with Liqaye on this.

Liqaye, you are an old soul indeed! There is ideological, territorial, historic, and economic quarrel between Ethiopia and us! Our interests are diametrically opposed! That much is clear. What is not so clear however is if our people the Somalis or the privileged educated few or even the religious elites for that matter will ever think beyond the qurac trees, see Ethiopia and the threat she posses, forget about their differences, and come up with an strategy to defeat it! Wars in Somalia will only strengthen Ethiopia’s hand. We need to think over this one seriously. I will come back latter IA. Ayoubow, do you see the Ethiopia's existential threat to us somalis or you think it’s a southern problem adeer !

Kashafa , you have been very elusive in your latest debating style! You’ve been dwelling in cheap slogans and popular clichés without being bold enough to suggest any strategies. You seem to be content with resistance’s current tactic and plan! You think it’s working and producing the desirable results we all want. We are winning, you shout. And you cite facts on the ground to back up your assertions. Problem is many of us are starring at a different set of facts! And here are the hard facts I am particularly looking at. 1- Ethiopia is gaining, and not losing in Xamar. It’s displacing innocent families by the thousands. Every day it occupies new territory. By any standard, Ethiopia has defeated your people! Her casual rates are ridiculously low. Yours are high, your civilians are dying either by direct hits of Ethiopians bullets, or as a consequence of it! 2- Almost ninety percent of Somalia is configured to be Ethiopia friendly. Ethiopia gets her shipments from Berbera , her recruits and intelligence from Gaalkacyo , and has secure supply routes in Gedo and Bay . Her tanks are rumpling deep into the Galgaduud deserts facing no resistance at all. Her check points are sat up in the Hiiraan valley! She enters Goldogob and closes down Quranic radios and local schools. Anywhere you look at, Ethiopia has willing locals collaborating with her and accommodating her needs. ^^Those are the facts adeer! And they don’t look good! Neither do they suggest any looming victory over Ethiopia! Now one wonders what is it that you find so difficult to concentrate the real enemy and see Somalis, the dabodhilifs if you will, for the broken people they really are! What is so difficult to acknowledge that your people are manipulated and controlled by able enemy that is Ethiopia? What makes you ridicule the slightest suggestion of peace talks, or any appeasement toward your divided people in the spirit of addressing the root cause that’s Ethiopia’s hegemony? Does it matter to you that only 3 percent of Somalis if not less are facing the enemy today, and the rest are either enablers or remain oblivious to the tragedy that befell on Xamar? What is your strategy, besides throwing grenades? Any strategy? Any yaa Kashafka? You want kill all the Somalis that are not supporting the resistance? How many do you think are there? Will Ethiopia ever get defeated while you are busy finishing dabodhilifs off? Let me stop there, and say this to you: what’s going in Xamar will only frustrate Ethiopia’s plans, I can’t realistically see how it will defeat Ethiopia though. Saldhigga Hodan aa la qabsaday then waa laga baxay then waa la qabsaday then waa laga baxay: the net price of this= 30 somalis (you call dabodhilifs) and zero Ethiopians causalities. The place: Xamar! And then you tell me that Somalis are wining. Yaa Rabbi! Stop the emotional fanfare! Be real adeer. Somalis can indeed sit down and talk to each other. We do it all the time. The dirrin that Baashi talks about makes perfect sense in principle. He never said it will be easy one to organize and hold. But it’s one of the few options we Somalis have. Acknowledge it adeer!

^^ Adeer stop these feel-ggod posts of yours, and ducada aamiin dheh! Really! You've been deliberately choosing to comment on the edges of the current problem! Caku!

^^I drop you from my list, waad dhaga adagtahay! Where's Xubeero?

lol@Ducaysane. Waryaa gabadha maxaad u caynaysaa. do you know how old i am? ma waxaad mooday markaan leeyahay oday baan ahay inaan kaftamayyo? Midda kale, inaan qaraabo nahay soo lagama yaabo ? Admit it Serenity those posts of mine are full of wisdom from which you've greately benefited ! Laakiin waan tegeyyaa hadda ....khalaas. umu zakaria, shaah u cab oo ka feker sidii aad ka yeeli lahayd! Waa inaad strategy la timaadaa aad SOL iskaga dhiciso! Pointka, there is a time behind those posts (three yrs) adeer!

Nayruus waxbuu guugaabinayaayye, gabar doon maaha!

^^ So says good Lander!

^^Or perhaps something along my previous slash-n-burn theory lines! But this time I am armed with new diagnosis; the root cause is no longer tribalism, it’s a failure of Somali leadership collectively. The theatre of slashing-n-burning should no longer be Somalia--- I have marked Ethiopia to be our great exercise. Those two should compensate the earlier anomalies in my previous plan! What say you yaa Pointka? Tuuji maskaxdaada, your canadian edcuation must yeild something, no?

May they defeat Ethiopia! Good prayer, Redka!

Red Sea iyo umu zakaria are addicts. I am not! How to not be an addict, start a topic and disappear for some time! Dont come back. That's my plan!

Waa waxaan ka hadlayey! Soomaalidu waa dad cajaa ib leh! Redka, tell me what is the major function of Berbera? Go and search NY times and find yourself the article that stated NK arms shipments to Ethiopia that went through Berbera before Ethiopia invaded somalia if you are in doubt that Ethiopia manipulates somalis and uses them equally! Yaan laga car-carin from being Ethiopia's puppet : all somalis are in one way or another! ps--waryaa Pointka imow the other thread where we are having round table discussion as to how defeat Ethiopia...wa haddaad sheeko rabto!

Tuujiska, adiga wax kasta muranaa ka keenaysaa saaxiib. Bilaash aan kuugu meherinaa Layzie, arrintaas xilkeeda waa kaa dhacay. Adi iyo Layzie meherka lee ku heshiiyya. Gor-gortan waryaa...kitaab quraaan ah ku day..haddey kaa diido Xajka ku day haddey kaa diido...ani ila tasho! Waxaan waa lasoo maray hortaa ma fahamtay!

^^general incivility of Somali culture? Who have you been talking to Pointka?

Originally posted by Baashi: Awoowe qaansada ma adaa ku dhaca oo jebin kara? Ma waxaad wadaa Dhagoolkii yiri sac baa seeri ka ciyay! Dhagaheedba ma leh ee muu innaka daayo weeye warku. ^^ Rag tashaday cirkuu toli karaa taako labadeede'e ! Talo ayey u baahantahay Baashow! One can vandalize if one so desires, and you know it Baashi!

Originally posted by Faarax-Brawn: War & victory over Ethiopia is the answer to a stable Somalia. To see a vibrant,strong and viable Somali state,then we must defeat(or distablize),the country that is solely responsible for our woes. The thing is,co existing peacefully with a stronger Ethiopia wont work; We have been at war for centuries. Either we accept to be dominated(which is not a Somali trait) or we must have a have a long term vision to be stronger than Ethiopia. If that means starting a war in Ethiopia,and break it down into tribal fiefdoms,to be at par with Somalia,then so be it. ^^Caawa raggu waa shaah adeer! Being sujuwi (war waxa sidee loo qoraa ), somali, american all in one comes handy!

Kuwaan anaa isku meherinaayya. Sida caadiga ah $200 aan qaattaa laakiin LG iyo Tuujiska aka Tusbaxle bilaash aan ugu habaynaa... I knew after Ramadan ended, another oppurtunity will present itself to me...maasha Allaah! Waraa nuune, iisoo sheeg meesha lagu qabanaayo xattaa invite uma baahni...

Baashi awoowe waayadaan isma aanan waraysan.Dagaalkii soomalida dhexdeeda ahaa waan iska daayey! Dirintaadii waan ogolaaday! Balaaya waxay ka taagantahay, dirinta qudheedu ma shaqaynayso inta qolo u qabto in Ethiopia dhankooda tahay! sidee baad gogol soomaliyeed u dhigaysaa inta soomaalida laftigeedu lakala haysto? Maxaad yeelaysaa haddii SL iyo PL diidaan?Ama Benaadir diiddo? Dheri lagula karinayyo weeyye awoowe... Haddaad intaa xal u hesho, bahasha meel dhow baad ka heshay! Anigese waxay ila tahay inta qaansada Ethiopianku jirto fallaar soomaaliyeed oo lagugu soo tuuro la wayn mayyo! Hence waa in qaansadaa la jabiyyaa!

^^ take the qaniis out of your vocab, man! @Northern SL is fishing in the shallow ends of LA pool just like good Northern picked on one jaded man out of many vigilant participants ...

Waryaa NG nadaa ninyahow aanu iska khilaawoonne! And yes you got it right, it’s a peaceful Somalia I am looking for! Some of you made me like my hasty (and unwise as some would say) formula. Particularly, some of your comments made it look like a creative destruction of sort; it will create a new dominant state out of the ashes of the long Somali civil war, and destroy the only stubborn enemy we have in that region in a one go! Who can beat that! But in all seriousness, Ethiopia must be fought in its own territory! It’s only there where it can be defeated given current political settings in Somalia. We need a paradigm shift in our current strategy in resisting (or bending for that matter) Ethiopia! General Zu and peaceful Zafir, فمتي يبلغ البنيان تمامه إذا كنت تبنيه وعيرك يهدم Will a building ever reach its full completion (or when will it reach?), however elegantly one constructs it, if others busy themselves thwarting it? Even if another Courts-like movement emerges I don’t believe Somalia will have a chance to restore itself, as long Ethiopia is here to frustrate any efforts to that end! So drop this humanitarian feign, put aside your supperficial worries, and come up with a strategy to tackle the Ethiopian problem! Assume Somalis will remain somalis. Assume the Powers that be will support Ethiopia against you. Commit my hasty thoughts to the flames. But come up with something adeer!

^^I am not asking the ruin of innocent people. I am merely stating what needs be done to stop Ethiopia from destructing us Somalis further than it has already done. Yes Baashi has a point and Somalis have been used against each other. Castro even elaborated on that point further. What gets me though is the people being not able to see the big picture. Dabodhilif this and dabodhilif that wont do the trick adeerayaal. Besides Ethiopia has a very shaky foundation that’s built on the graves of innocent people. I am not that humanitarian adeer; to safe Somalia I am willing to sacrifice Ethiopia if it comes down to that! So yes I am praying the collapse of Ethiopia with all its consequences. Still though I can clearly see the moral quandary in this Zafirow!

^^Ethiopia, in its current form and strategy, is a danger to the Horn region. Zenawi can be toppled today. But his toppling will not change the suicidal policies of this poor nation I am afraid. There must be a war in Ethiopia to alter the nature of this mad state. If you've been following those Amhars who have been testifying in the American congress you must have noticed what they oppose is not necessarily current American/Ethiopian strategy in fighting terror as they see it but the lack of good governance and democracy in Ethiopia. In other words, they don’t really mind Ethiopia’s violent domination and influence in Somalia. Adeer dabodhilifs are your people. You can buy them out. You can entice them with some other goodies. Concentrating on them is missing the point really. What needs exponential thinking is to how to take this fight inside Ethiopia and influence the great nation, albeit sleeping one, of Oromia. Research on Ethiopia, and look at their economy. Infrastructure. Supply routes. Airports. Schools. Hospitals. There are no Somalis who love Ethiopia as alleged. Those who are with them today see it as their interest. The politics of forming alliance with Ethiopia has become a necessary variable in the Horn political calculus. A noble strategy in my mind would be to break and dry up the source instead of talking about or fighting the dabodhilifs yaa Castro...

The formula for a peaceful horn is the following. 1-Ethiopia must be defeated, and broken into mini tribal enclaves with warlords. 2- The Somali state must be resurrected, and revived. 3-After five years of a bloody civil war between them, the Tigrinya and Amhara tribes must be given a hand to produce dominant warlords that get orders from Asmara. 4- ****** must be reunited with the Somali republic. 5- Somalia must bring eastern Ethiopia in its sphere of influence after incorporating ****** region. 6- after about 20 years of creating new reality in Abyssinia, Somalia and Eritrea must come into agreement to share Ethiopia’s human resources to. As per the above formula, the horn region needs a war. The war we are currently having is happening in the wrong theatre. The sooner this war creeps deep into Ethiopian territory, the closer the realization of peace gets.

Can anyone tell me the distance between Godey and Mogadishu? Are the roads paved?

Ethiopian Military Truck Comes Under Explosion At Gedo Region NEWS 4 November 2007 Posted to the web 4 November 2007 Mogadishu In the much confirmed two civilians died and five others wounded after an Ethiopian convoy traveling between Luuq district and Bohal Baashir location near Yurkud town. The two civilians were just passersby in the area near the explosion as eyewitnesses told Radio Shabelle. Yet the motive behind the explosion targeted at the Ethiopian convoy is not clear, and it was said that the explosion was a roadside mine. The administration of Luuq district reached at the scene of the blast and carried out investigations pertaining to the blast around Bohol Bashir which 25km south of Luuq district. The Ethiopian troops have been using the road between Luuq and Bardale peacefully in the past months, when crossing from the border district of Dolow. It was only the night before last night when a hand grenade was thrown at a pub in Dolow Ethiopia.