lol@everyone can send "TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN" to the one he finds next belo ku degtay...

Originally posted by Castro: How can you have a cease fire when one of the major parties in the conflict is not a signatory to the agreement? And why is this so different from all the others that came before it? Originally posted by Castro: Do you recall how long Israel has been saying it does not negotiate with terrorists? First, this agreement is between Courts and TFG. These two entities, unlike parts/functions that agreed in previous conferences, have significant difference in what system of governance they would want for Somalia. One has Islamic orientation and has post-civil war feel and look. The other is a pure production of Somalia’s 17-year civil war and culture of warlordism. Men of religion make up Courts leadership, while TFG is primarily a collection of warlords/strongmen. The degree of involvement by external actors such as UN and Saudi Arabia is also unprecedented. The timing is also significant adeer. This agreement comes at the time when the mission to oust the Courts and replace it with a secular government utterly failed. In other words, there is an increased need for US and the UN for that matter to save face, and arrange Ethiopia’s exit. Given the substance (and not a mere clan composition) difference between the two, the noticeable international involvement, and the awkward position of the US, this agreement came at a very sensible time. Second, I think you know why alshabaabs group was not a signatory for this agreement, and I am not going to repeat it. Let us examine, instead, if a heshiis between Courts and TFG can come to a fruition absent of Alshabaabs cooperation. I believe it can if the terms of this agreement are adhered to and Ethiopia’s withdrawal is realized in a timely fashion. What would the reasons for continuing the violence be if Ethiopians are withdrawn, yaa Castro? There will always be one group or another that will not agree to any agreement however inclusive it might be. If the agreement makes sense, and addresses the root causes of the conflict, as I reckon this one does, then we should support it. Fact is that majority of Somalis are tired and long for peace. Ethiopia is the big elephant in the room. If it withdraws her troops as the agreement promises, then 50% of Somalia ‘s problems are solved. Oodweyne, First, easy with your obsession with Baashi’s royal Macawis . You know that a camel herder from Oodweyne Township does not fare well with an urbanite from Kismayo . It’s just not fair adeer. On a more serious note though, remind me last time that you were for any effort intended to bring Somali conflict to an end? You were opposed to the Courts on the basis Islamic extremism. You were opposed to TFG from onset because who was selected as its head. Were you not adeer? If truth were to be boldly told, a man who habitually dwells in past grievances to justify a separatist cause and opposes any effort to resolve Somali conflict in his feeble hope that one day the world might just say enough with this failed state (Somalia) and consider the issue of Somaliland recognition, that man can not offer clothes to any one else’s naked argument for he is truly naked. And that man is YOU, yaa Oodka!

Originally posted by Castro: How can you have a cease fire when one of the major parties in the conflict is not a signatory to the agreement? And why is this so different from all the others that came before it? Haddaad wax la taaban karo ku hadlaysaa adeer. I have to leave now, but I will give you why a) this agreement is different than those preceeded it, b) and how it can succeed even if alshabaab attempt to abort it. IA.

Castro, you need some basic education about the relationship between alshabaab and Courts--a relationship that preceded the designation you referred to. Alshabaabs have always been opposed to any talks with TFG even before when this entity was based in Baydhabo, and Courts were ruling most of the south. Their approach has failed Courts and us saaxiib and saying so is not philosophical rubbish, it’s a fact. Their unwise public pronouncements of being part of Al-qaida has tied the hands of Courts leadership. That said, these men are Somalis and have paid heavy price in blood and in treasure to fight for their country in its hour of need. That fact has not been lost on Courts leadership. But halting the caravan simply al shabaabs says so does not even merit for serious consideration given where we are today. Is that why object to Jabbuuti agreement? Oodweyne, the occupation has been addressed in this agreement. Perhaps you need to reread the agreement. TFG is a fact. Wishing it away will not change that reality. Ethiopia is a reality, hating it or wishing it away will not change that fact either. You must learn how to choose betwen bad and worst options, not good and bad only.

^^I am in total agreement with you that contingency plan must put in place in case things don't turn out as hoped. ps...I heard Sharif is going Somalia, so most of the resistance are on the same page regarding this deal.

Edit: Castro, that would have been an ideal situation. But alshabaab has no interest to talking to dabodhilifs, and you know it. If you are suggesting such agreement should be put off till alshabaabsI do not agree. To include alshabaab has been Sharif's prefered approach as well. But alshabaab has been quite inflexible in thier stance. And the caravan must move forward adeer, and we shall support it. Oodweyne, you did not answer my question! Please table a realistic alternative to the one we had in Jabbuuti so the gallery can see to it if it passes the feasibility scale. If you dont have any alternative, then give the good Sheekh a chance, I say! As I said before speaking more grammar than truth, as you always do, does not hide the fact your argument against the Jabbuuti accord is quite broken.

Originally posted by nuune: ^^ I can blindly say he did hold a gun, and did operated one Xiinoow, waa in aanu habeenaa AT&T, maskaxdiisa waxa ku aasan waa in aan ka soo buttaacinaa, hawsha horaadba ka billowdey waanba arkaa, Almubtada' iyo wa Khabaruhu weeyaan, wa kilaahumaa marfuucaani, marka halkaas ka sii ambaqaad adaa manager u ah Odeyga War ninyahow ninku weli waa iga shakisanyahaye u sheeg. Markaa iri shaaha adaa qaba wuu ka gaabsaday, casuumadaydii. Inay bakhayl nimo ka tahay iyo in shiddo kale haysatto mid ay tahay anigu ma aqaan awoowe.

Castro , You are vacillating between cautiously supporting the Jabbuuti agreement and rejecting it. I am having difficulty time deciphering your posts. Tell us whether you oppose it outright, and, if you will, what you think the alternative should be. What is it that you are afraid of adeer? If it fails because of the International Community not living up to the their end of the deal, Sharif will have garnered even more support for he will have proved to the suffering masses, and outside audience, that it’s the powers that be that is in the way of the return of peace in Somalia despite their seemingly supportive pronouncements. If it succeeds, and Ethiopian troops withdraw, then it will be a great start to reconcile warring Somalis. The calculation could not be more shrewdly formulated. Seriously, I don’t get you brother. Your objections do not make sense at all to me. If you really think peace should not be had as long TFG survives, then your cynic tone is just the tip of the iceberg and you are pregnant with more ominous thoughts. The notion that until certain personalities and warlord characters are defeated regardless of the context and without consideration to the situation in which said characters were able to ascend to the position of authority they occupy is not only naïve, but dangerous. Don’t get me wrong for I still think Juje was wrong to accuse you of being inconsiderate to the humanitarian disaster in Muqdishu. I know you do consider the suffering of your people. But I think you are utterly mistaken in hastily concluding ARS leaders who signed this deal are bought up or were duped. Adeer cagaha dhulka u dhig…you are nearing to cross the warmongering threshold when you so energetically attempt to shut down this flare of hope that's coming out of Jabbuuti. That is not you adeer.

Originally posted by Castro: this agreement is an aborted fetus. Saying so does not make one a warmonger. Ignoring it makes you look uninformed. To the contrary, this agreement is a good first step toward peaceful and stable Somalia. And only a cynic would fail to acknowledge that. Oodweyne is a warmonger, always has been. He is a flaming secessionist who has no interest in seeing a stable South/Somalia. In fact, he’s among those who would like to continue buttressing their case for independence with the painful reality that’s the failed Somalia.

^^A bizarre blend, indeed, if it’s true! But ninyahow mucjisaabad tahay if you can sling guns with a laughter. It must be the novellas you read that stimulates such peculiar mixture of laughter and guns. Did you own a gun? Have you ever operated on one ?

Afka hadalka waxaa loo qabaa odoga reeraade, Anse ogi halkaad Maahirow iinku leedahayye Abtigiis & Tolka hal cillad baad leedahay deg-deg badan baa kugu jira. Xatta sheekooyinkaaga intaad bilowda baad iskaga dhaqaajinaysaa. Meel fog inaad ku ordoysaa la moodaa. Waa inaad maskax fadhida wax ku qortaa adeer si taladaydu kuu anfacdo. Taladayda waa lasoo tijaabiyey, gabdho badan baa lagu guursaday, oo caruur badan baa ku dhalatay. Waa taabo gal. Midda kale oo deg-dega kuu wehlisaa waa tiro badnaanta. Markaan kuu bogoba,ummuur hor leh oo aan kugu naco baad fashaa. Bitti ma lihid ninyahow.Adigaa is fashilinayya. Qaaciddo shacbi ah waa inaad abuuran kartaa, waa inaad dadka wax ku dhuri kartaa, wixii loosoo sheegayna ka shubi kartaa. Qaabkaad wax u waddaa meel fog ku gaarsiin mayyo saaxiib. Hase yeeshee nin laga quustay ma tihid. Weli rajjo leedahay. Rajjaddaadu waxay ku xiran tahay hadba markaan ku qabto sidaad ii yeesho. Nin ragga ahi, joog marka la yiraahdo waa inuu joogsadaa. Hadduuse is maqiiqo inuu banjaro bay u dhowdahay. Waryaa ila soo xiriir, isku kaaya keen, shaahana adaa qaba.

I live in a secular goverment. Most of you live in secular environment. Somalis who live in somalia need peace and stability, first,then other issues will be taken up latter IA. Originally posted by Kashafa: Brilliant summation, yaa Barafasoor, of the false dilemmas and rationalizations the peaceniks present. They invoke the treaty of Hudaybiyah without knowing(or maybe they do) the conditions and context that led upto it . The Muslims marched to Makkah(not the other way around). They were in a position of strength(not the other way around). The strong can compromise and not suffer, even gain. The weak do not have that luxury. Few questions yaa Kashafka; 1) what where the conditions and context that let up to Hudaybiyah agreement? 2)In your 'strong' vs, 'weak' parallel, who is weak and who is strong in your oponion in today's conflict? Adeer iska hadalku ma fiicna! Qofka Muslimka ahi waa inuu wax u xeeriyyaa jiraan. Ninka aqriyyaa waxaad qoroyso, oday reer miyyi ah oo curadkiisa inta la dilay aano u ciil qaba lagu moodaa. wiilasha alshabaab kaliyya maaha muslimiinta soomaliya degan. Soomaaliyya bad-baado bay maanta u baahantahay,and alshabaab's way have has failed us. waxbaan dili, anna waa dhimman weeye tay wadaan. And sadly that’s how Somali clans operate. Sharif is inspirational leader. Actually he is a transformational leader. Few can swallow their pride, think big, and aim high like he does. The risks he is taking are calculated. But it takes patience to even assess his approaches with a sense of objectivity. The world is not only Somalia. And he understands that. That ‘s what Muhammad (scw) understood. When the Muslims were going thru a hellish torture in Mecca, suuratu Al-Ruum came down with divine commentaries about events that occurred in thousand miles away. That Chapter narrated the fierce battle between Romans and Persians. Romans will win, the Muslims were told, and that shall please you! It was the first detailed foreign policy revealed to Muhammad (scw). The message was clear, their suffering and pain was put in a global context. Patience made more sense. Sabran yaa Aala Yasir made more sense. A doze of immunization in the form of revelation teaching from the kind of reactions you show here was given to them. Their reaction was no longer toward Abu Lahab, and what retributions they will exact when they win. Rather it was how to save Abu Lahab himself. That was the teaching. That is the beauty of Islam you claim and whose name you oppose genuine efforts good Culumaa are putting forth to heal our people’s wounds. Good Culumaa, I must add, you are moving albeit unwittingly to join those who slander them in the cyber world. Muhammad never dwelled in grievance adeer, and he never lost hope. Despite what those who surrounded him thought and felt about his political moves, what he always strived to do was to create environment that could allow his message to propagate peacefully. Sharif is right inuu daliishado siiradi nabiga (scw)iyo heshiisyaduu galay... Sharif will talk to his armies and his people. He will reach out to Alshabaab. He will make his case for peace. Common sense dictates that we, those of us he kasoo talac-talac leh from abroad, should t least give him the benefit of the doubt. If nothing else, It’s sadaqatun minka calyka yaa Kashafa… Waano abbuuris baa ka horreysay .

^^Waan uun heshiin lahayn nuune, rag tashaday cirkay toli karaan taako labadeedee

^^

Abtigiis & Tolka waa nin hal abuur leh. Hadduu ila tashaan lahaa lacag buu ka dhergi lahaa.

^^I asked him one question. I want him to answer that question without going off on a tangent like he does all the time. Kolba najjaasuu sii deyn doonnaa sidiisiiye, laakiin saaka waan u dul qaadan...

Kashafa , as I told you before, I am with Sharif on this one. Alshabaabs will be confronted with reason and naseexah. If they remain stubborn, and refuse to listen the wisdom of Sh. Sharif, other means will be found to lessen the impact of their rebellion. The goal is to revive Somalia, and do away with Ethiopia’s influence. Gradually. Reality, my good brother, trumps empty slogans such as dignity and pride. This is not a contest of bravery. Ina Yusuf and other men in the tfg are negligible variables at this juncture of Somali history. To refuse a potential peace deal because of them is to let them shape the future of Somalia, and that we cannot allow. Adeer my bashfulness prevents me to undress you and your argument here amaama jamahiir…so would you please show patience and let things unfold instead of entertaining worst scenarios. Where is Oodweyne? The secessionist warmonger! Saaka waa usoo quraacday...

^^I describe Cadde, and I don’t slander him. That he is clueless and incompetent is a political parody that even beats Yalahow of Muqdishu. Now the change is clear from both sides, but it's most apparent in Yey's seemingly willing compliance with the UN dictated terms. Jabbuuti hosted the thing, and the old man went there in acceptance to UN's invitation. I do thing that is a good stuff. It's good for Somalia. The opposition is there for the same reason tfg is there. So I don’t really see, the great game you are describing here in which Cadde and the old man are the winners. And to suggest Jabbuuti changed and deserted her old friends in the south is a bit over the board methinks---we don’t know that yet. The Arabs are involved. EU is involved. I hope they want the Somali problem holistically resolved, and not endorse one party over the other, as you seem to be suggesting. Now to cut to the chase, Jabbuuti did not change a bit. Somalis functions that are party to this conflict changed their tactics to exact the political and security change the want to desire to see. The ultimate arbiter in this is the UN financed with some Arab money. Instead of boasting about skinny she camels Cadde reportedly sent as a gesture to Jabbuuti, lets see the big picture, in international and regional sense and where PL falls in that picture...

^^No body wishes PL to go away. And that we disagree is/was not in question Duke, what is in question is whether you even understand the grave situation PL is in, the region you supposedly support. Cadde and old man has already changed a lot, a lot of things if you didn't realize it already. They changed the region in particular and somalia in general to the worse. Waxay bi'iyeen baan rabnaa inaan islaaxino adeer! Maxaad ii keentay awoowe, you talk about PL elections and Cadde's return as though PL is Norway or Sweden whilst the reality suggest to a primitive state whose fragile political arregment is crumbling as we speak...

I want the world to move forward. But as usual it's you who have the wrong yardstick to measure Jabbuut's closeness to somali people. lest you ignore it, Jabbuuti did not change, it's the old man that changed due to a pressure from without changed, Cadde as usual is dancing to the script. All these please me and I like it...but dont overburden with this 50 halaad thing adeer..

^^Not because of 50 neef of geel and tobonaan neef oo ari ah adeer though...

^^Baashi awoowe I must remind you that you owe us the story of Oodweyne Township camel boy who carried the sub clannish tookh he was brought up with all the way to London… One more thing Baashe, if this agreement fails it wont be because of Aweys. Rather it will be because of the UN. Despite his public pronouncements the good Sheikh is not far from we are today. You must conceder the circumstances he finds him self in and the political environment that surround him. Al-shabaab will try everything in their disposal to abort this initiative though, and that is no longer unknown matter, but fortunately they are not the only fighters on the ground. If the other parts hold their end of this bargain, I believe Sharif will find receptive ears in the dacwaha leaders. Sh. Ali of Burco , and elder and respected leaders of Somali sahwah, and Sh. Aweys former boss if you didn’t know him, had been trying to bridge the gap between Islamic oriented folks in the Alliance. As Sharif continues to do his reach out …things could be much easier than most people think. What worry me are the UN and alshabaab youths, and not Sh. Aweys.

This is an oppurtuniyt to get some insights into this brother's thinking and opproaches in his effort to bridge the somali divide... you never know Paragon will be converted after a session with good Ahmed Wallah Abdalla...

It has no point. It's Cadde doing what he does best which is anything but govern...

^^Baashi, 50 neef oo geel ah, tobonaan lo'ah shows tabarta PL admin leeyahay if any adeer..