Oodweyne: with all honest and seriousness my engagements in these boards are NOT meant to reason with fanatics, and zealous qabiilists! I found both characteristics in you adeer! Somaliland as a country only exists in the heads of fanatics. Others see a relatively peaceful albeit struggling region in a failed state called Somalia. I knew others could be seduced to believe such rubbish, but good NGONGE sort of surprised me really. That’s why I spared some time to reason with him. But you are a known commodity in these boards…

lol@ Xaaji NG. Alloow kuu naxariiso! Adeer what are we debating horta? To cut to the chase, this is what I am saying: SL with all its assertions and claims is still part of Somalia. The world sees it that way! Most Somalis see it that way. The fact it's stable does not equal to statehood. In that sense, it’s not different than PL. my contention is not whether Somaliland wants to secede or the case for secession for that matter. My contention is your assertion that Somaliland is a country. I said it’s not. It’s just a political entity… That’s what I’ve repeated to you over and over again, but just like a cloud in a windy day it passed over your head so fast that I have to narrate it again. Oodweyne's ambassadors in near and far are all in his head. Even when little Jabbuuti welcomes Riyaale, his status is no more than a governor of a stable region just like Cadde is! That is how things are today. How things will be tomorrow however remains to be seen---read my signature adeer! War dadkaan yaa u sheekeeyey...Somaliland waa dal bay lasoo shirtageen One last q yaa NG; if LA comes back into PL's domain, would you change your mind about the feasibility of this project? This is a very relevant q adeer!

A & T, Habruhu account more than 50 % of SL population. And I assume most of the that lot will go along with a separate state and the percieved power that comes with it... NG, come on now! What full dignitary? You are arguing for the sake of argument saaxiib. What SL wants or desires which is to secede does not change the reality on that ground that SL is a part of Somalia. In fact, it will not take much from PL part to draw SL into Somali civil war. Actually one can argue that SL is potentially knee deep in a tribal conflict. What is taming the conflict now is the other H collection is not ready to fight yet. For Allahs sake the casualties of LA turnover was ironically low (not that I wish a war but to point to fact for this skirmish what it really was). More people died in Kismayo than in LA. Think about it for a second saaxiib. SL has no presence in any regional entity unless you blv what good JB posts around here. And when I talk about the deference between the two, I mean substantial difference in the big scheme of things. I expect you to talk it along those lines. It’s really lame to come back and say they are different because one wants to move away and other wants to stay in house. That’s a political emotion. Feelings. Sentiments. Realities on the ground override those feelings. It’s quite elementary that the constituencies of both entities are different in the clannish matrix. But that is just periphery to the larger argument here. The world sees one Somalia. Some regions are admittedly more stable than others. But by and large Somalia is failed state in the eyes of the world. The notion that SL is different than the rest of Somalia and has a reached a milestone in her march to independence is a myth for the all the reasons I cited above. The premise of her case is broken. It’s collection of clans and with varying interests, and you know it. For SOL’s secessionist children; we are all happy that SL is stable and secure. Lest you mistaken our beef with secessionism with something else; something that’s more sinister.

Come again adeer.

^^Old man, there is a thread in politics section about SL and secession! Ibtisaam schoolkii baa laga xiray ayyaamahan ee faraha ka qaad.

^^Fahiye, ninka sidaan ugu bogsanaa,oon hoosta uga sacabtumayey baan ducadiisii arkey (in onather thread) .

^^lool Send him a pm, yaa Bruco man!

^^Ii dhaafaa duq NGONGE aniga...siriq buu ku jiraaye.. NG , Ok. Let me admit that what elites of SL in the end want or think they can get with this scanty merchandise of theirs is a moot point. But I am bit surprised at your rate of speed in diving this myth of secession. You already called SL a country. A lot people who believe SL’s cause feel that way. But I tried to make a distinction between am emotional feeling and FACTS. So lets first agree what the facts on the ground are! Fact1—SL is a political entity that ASPIRES to secede from the rest of Somalia Fact2---Majority of SL masses as it stands today want to secede also (there are sizable clans that oppose it). Fact3---No country in the world has so far recognized SL. Fact4—Contrary to your assertion, SL is not treated as a sovereign state (name one country…and please don’t hazard to cite Ethiopia’s envoy in Hargeysa for Ethiopia’s relationship with SL in particular and with Somalia in general is known). Political sentiments and emotions that are associated with secessionism are admittedly difficulty to overcome. But when you engage people make sure you understand what those things are. They are feelings. Red Sea, for instance, feels SL is similar to Jabbuuti. But facts point to a different thing. And you of all people should not labor making that difference adeer. What about LA? If you doubt that SOOL and SANAAG folks oppose SL plans, and then tell me what you are smoking saaxiib! These things happened before. Yesterday when it happened it favored PL’s political fortunes. For the uninitiated, the H collection seemed unstoppable. But the dynamics in the south have changed, and the tables are turned now in favor of PL’s political opponents. Yet the changes that happened in LA are superficial in the big scheme of things, all they amount to is a slight shift of loyalty in some localities. I really don’t know the political pulse of Awdal folks, but the question of SOOL and SANAAG is far from settled saaxiib. Tell me, good NG, what are the major differences between SL and PL. Don’t include what SL feels she is. Include only what SL is today, and what PL is today. Two regions of a failed state that survived the Somali civil, are they not? Two regions that get direct aid from UN agencies, are they not? Two regions that have more a less commercial ties with gulf countries, are they not? Adeer the world hears a lot from Somalis. But they know what Somalis are; a needy people of a failed state. The world as we know it today has not yet bought the notion of breaking up Somalia. It’s not an option now. And if it ever materializes, I am not sure if it will benefit SL. Chew that one yaa NGONGE!

NG, I am not sure if you confuse the reality of SL entity as a functioning region with that of a state or country! The fact of the matter is that Somaliland is NOT a country! Depicting it as a country does not make it so! The difference (forget about feelings and emotions) between SL & PL in the eyes of the observers of the region borders zero! You may not be a keen observer of the ways Somalis think politically, but nothing has fundamentally changed in the political equation of that region save from LA changing hands again (remember when it changed last time around it didn’t make SL disappear from the map!). No body is denying SL’s existence. Just like I admit that PL exists, I also admit that SL exists as a political entity. Dig deep, and you will probably give more credence to my theory than you did so far. Namely that the only probable outcome of this mad project in the minds of the elites of that region is to perhaps be a better position next time around in terms of getting a favorable deal in the future federal arrangement. And that is understandable and may be worth the effort. But to think that somehow Somalia is going to be broken up into tribal enclaves or that break up will benefit SL is quite fanatical methinks. The very variables that complicate the political stability of Somalia are present in every region and that includes SL! As you said it the other day quite eloquently, that is how it is and how it’s going to be in the future. What makes you think that recent SL militia’s victories in her East are prelude to a brighter future as far as her independence objectives are concern adeer? To me what happened recently could be easily explained in the context of what is going in the south, and does not warrant for anyone to jump in or out of ship…

^^Any news about Las qoray Oodweyne? How close is Somaliland to closing the colonial border? Xiddigo, Castro ii daayaa aniga anaa keenayyee. Idinku Oodweyne bal runta u sheega intaas xagga bariga usoo doobiyeyyaa bal in somaliweyne galbeedka ka xigtana halloo sheego...

lol@Naden! Guri carfoon iyo cunto macaan is what makes a married woman a great wife! I dont want to hazzard a guess what makes a single woman a waman! Gabdhaan Bella la leeyahay wallee balayyaa wadata...little does she know in meeshaan gabdha murqo leh joogaan

^^Qabiil gathering has been replaced by Qabiil email lists. Make sure you positively contribute to those emails from your cousins. It’s your opportunity for al amru bil macruuf wa nahyu canil munkar…

Red Sea is in central regions convincing alshabaab to avenge his los in those silly black Mountains in Sanaag...

War dadkani may xishoodaan. Grievance bay ku leeyihiin. Who does not have grievances? The land between Merca and Gedo lost close to a quarter million of its people due Aydid’s systematic siege in early days of the Somali civil war. Just last year and half, Ethiopian tanks with America’s logistical support transformed entire neighborhoods in Xamar into rubbles! Yet you don’t hear those communities use these legitimate injustices to tear their country apart. Secessionism is nothing but a political tool for some northern groupings elites to attain power in the future Somali arrangement. Pity those who with all their education buy into this crap and think it can be realized…

A withdrawal of Ethiopia’s troops will be a good start. A complete withdrawal will only engender Khayr adeer; the sooner they withdraw, the quicker we can commence a meaningful dialogue for out future. But as we will find out, Ethiopia’s presence is not the only problem facing Somalis.

Qorya-lacagow, the hostilities will not end as long one group or other wants to fight. The measure of this Agreement will be whether Ethiopian troops withdraw completely or even start credible withdrawal from major urban centers. The alternative is quite familiar; keep the fight going and let Ethiopia continue to take advantage of it. Supporting Jabbuuti agreement is the moral think to do. The other approach allows the demagogues to take root and grow. That you shall never support adeer…

^^So you are conflicted about the Jabbuuti peace deal. You are sitting it out to see if it fails or succeeds…you want to see the outcome! Adeer when I read your long lecture I thought inaad bislaatay laakiin weli ma aadan bislaan…Somali manta balaaya ku habsatay kuweena qurbaha jooggaa intay sitting on the sidelines na wax badan ba ma hagaagayaan…you need to actively support the Jabbuuti initiative as you actively supported the muqaawamah.

^^A & T wax la quuri karo maaha! Ninku waa nin cajaa'ib leh yaa Xaniifah. A & T adeer, PM kayga farrimaha ku jira mid la tiri karo laguma arko. Laakiin si aan kaaga u ehelo I may have to delete some! Kolba ragga kuwiisan tiriye...

Originally posted by money: When we will see a Somali who talks like this or even thinks like this? putting the country before the clan? Will it ever happen in our lifetime? ^^Sh. Sharif is the one guy you are looking for! Do you see him as such though? Or you yourself are overcome by the very emotions and shortsightedness you are reproaching? Support the peace process. The only sanity and wisdom you could find in Somali politics as of late is what happened in Jabbuuti. But it takes a sane person to recognize what sanity looks like.

^^Resist also the thought that the good Sheekh is duped. Err on the safe side and assume that he knows what he is doing.

My Qabiil reside in US and Europe, and some live in East and S Africa. When my qabill goes back to somalia we are planning to settle in Ceerigaabo. IA. Which qabiil we should intermary with to make that posible?

lool@Redka. Waa kaa haray. Laakiin watch your mouth waryee xammaasada qabiilkana iska yara ilaali. Don't wish more wars on somalis. Go to your closest Dunn Bros and ask Xiin, and your shaah is on me! Miskiin waaxid.

^^You did not answer my q? You think your clan are significant and numerious. Tell us who they are! Last time i checked Bali Gubadle was not a factor in SL's politics, why belittle Boorame adeer?

^^You did not like the title of this thread sow maaha?

Originally posted by Red $ea: Is this about me refering you as the 'few' and insignificant in Somaliland. You think Castro's clan is few and insignificant, eh? I think I am extracting too much from your childish mind. Let me try one more thing. Waryee qolodee tahay?