Hadda diyaar Goobaanle, Indhacadde, Barre iyo kulli markaan diyaar baa loo yahay Arrinta Kismayo inta Xasan u hartay waa laga sheekayn :D

^^Adeer IGAD's communique is there all to see --I have no intention to spin it my way (although I could ) Wait for a fitting response to Hassan's provocations. It is safe now to respond if you know what I mean

professor Abtigiis ninka koofiyadda qaba waa gabyaa, I liked him. his verses are very deep. Sheekadda cidda looga cabto waa sheeko hore, and it does not apply today. Today idinkaa wax la idin bidaa, Abtigiisoow Oodweyne waa soooooooo 1970s. weli reerkaa la caqli badan

It is true Jubbaland lost it big time in the diplomatic front, but it is also true that it gained a support from its people Hadday awal edeb lahaayeen, oo ay dawladda si hufan ula jadli jireen, oo dadka laga tiro badan yihiin u turayeen, hadda sidaa noqon mayso. A progress has been reversed in a large measure for pure political reasons. Now that Kenya, Ethiopia and IGAD are out of the equation (at least the suspicion that they drove the whole thing is killed by this communique) , lets see how those who did everything to oppose the Kismayo commonsense ,turned down the invitations from the locals, and did everything to disrupt and discredit it, lets see what they have in mind to bridge the gap. Give it few weeks , and IGAD and front-line countries will be issuing another communique. Politics are always local, and this time the locals have no incentive to play safe as they did before It is a hardball

That is the strategy forward ...

IGAD head of states convened at the request of Somali government. Somali government's agenda was to win an endorsement for its political stabilization plan. A communique was released that underlined five principles. There and then the Jubbaland proponents won, and the president lost (by initiating a complaint to resolve an internal issue). Jubbaland is a political reality. Short of a civil war , it cannot be reversed.

^^OK caqliyow

Apophis;954071 wrote: "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Hitchens. :D @Hitchens quote If that is Kristopher, he died sad , and by most accounts he was not singing 'God is NOT great' on his deathbed Ah i digress ...

^^Forget about IGAD and Kenya, and try to deal with the reality that is Jubbaland State. What are you going to do , Malistar2012? Do what you do best which is to fight :D

^^As far as I am aware of IGAD committee has not issued any recommendation on Jubbaland issue. The dates I am hearing is 25-30 of May Besides, IGAD cannot change the reality of Jubbaland

IGAD maba shirin wali maxey talisaa? Hassan and his supporters are getting desperate everyday , they have long decided to disregard facts and say and write anything Where is Dabrow and Gabal, they will celebrate this Hiiraanonline piece, just like they did for VOA interview

NOT TRUE However it is not suprising that Mogadishu based media will write anything with respect to Kismayo---they were after all the ones propelling the notion of multiple presidents (a scenario that does not actually exist on the ground) in Kismayo. It is time for certain folks to realize Kismayo and Jubbaland are not problem for Somalia.

ok Chimera, I can understand ---your sore fingers gave up on you after typing lengthy responses to NGONGE, Baashi, and Professor Abtigiis ps. I did not like the style of copying and responding posters pieces either

dp

Chimera;953590 wrote: I don't think you're telling me the whole story here Xiin. What happened to the status of the Kismayo Port? The charcoal trade and the remaining stash? There were major disagreements on these issues long before the Jubba conference, and Madoobe and his team didn't show political decorum towards the Federal government, in fact the ban was ignored. Would you recognize the efforts by the Ras Kamboni leaders if they disrespected you on a issue like the charcoal trade let alone more important ones on a federal level like how to create a regional state? Kismayo port, charcoal trade, and remaining stash would not be a problem if the fundamental issue of federalism is resolved. The notion that the federal government would dismiss a years old effort to establish a federal state in Jubbaland regions yet convince the same community whose political objectives the government is impeding to handover local administrations is not practical to me. It may be ideal to see a strong federal government take hold in Somalia today but it could only be so after Somali communities feel they have ownership in it and such central government is not organized to deny their rights and role. Ports proceeds , charcoal revenue and enforcement policy to prevent charcoal trade is minor issues compared the federalism question. You resolve the federalism question , you resolve many issues. You ignore it and try to workaround it, and you will continue spinning your wheels, perhaps backwards. You must understand Somalia's conflict is political in nature, and mistrust is deep. Chimera;953590 wrote: I might sound biased, (but i'm honest) because I see nothing wrong with the PM's proposals, or anything that is over the top. The areas claimed by Jubbaland are still under the yoke of Al-Shabaab, declaring a state in Kismayo today or tomorrow would not matter, for better or worse, as long as these territories remain under their yoke. I also don't see why getting all these delegates back together 6 months later would be a problem, considering it would be sponsored by the government. How will sacrificing Federal recognition aid the sustainability of the regional state? Is declaring one today instead of 6 months later that much more important than recognition? Unless your privy to info that states the Federal government would appoint a whole new administration after the interim one, because I have read no such thing. It is true that the majority of areas claimed by Jubbaland state is under alshabaab. But it was also true that most of the city of Mogadishu was under alshabaab when a legitimate Somali government was organized and inaugurated in peaceful pockets within the city , guarded of course by none other than AMISOM troops. In fact , it is AMISOM that is insisting thier campaign against alshabaab would be more effective if there is a political entity , legitimately elected and representative of these regions, functional and in place to administer liberated towns and villages. That logic makes sense to me personally , as it would result a scenario where liberated areas would not be under foreign military officers and instead would be under Somali regional leaders. Of course the same objective could be achieved by appointments from Mogadishu. But many including me prefer local governance over central authority in today's context. And of course it matters a lot whether to postpone the conference and disband vs whether to build on the progress already achieved on reconciliation and understanding amongst these communities. If you are honest you would admit the objective of this government in wishing to postpone the conference is to regain a political leverage to affect the outcome in these regions. I do not see a reason to destroy such a beuitiful process in organizing a federal state unless you are totally opposed to the notion of federalism in Somalia as I suspect the president and his team are. It is also obvious it would be better to complete the process now for logistical reasons, why wait 6 months when you have all of them talking and ready right now? But of course the objective of the government does not seem to be establishing a state in those regions. And finally what is wrong with PMs proposals is the fact that it does not reflect on the reality on the ground. To say disband the delegates shows utter disregard to the wishes of the locals, it goes against the spirit of reconciliation and trust building , and above all it represents a political desire that is sadly small ---it is not inline with our national priority of defeating alshabaab, reconciliation, and trust building. Chimera;953590 wrote: As for Kenya and IGAD, anyone that has followed the Somali conflict for even a single day can see their agendas from a distance. IGAD is the extended filthy hand of Ethiopia, and their entire mission is to undermine the Federal government, luckily after decades of throwing Somali leaders around like rag-dolls they have found their match in the Federal government.The issue of the maritime borders is not a conspiracy theory, it is a well-proven subject. Kenya never claimed what it's claiming today back when there was a strong Somali navy patrolling those waters, yet they have awarded specific maritime sections legally under Somalia's jurisdiction to multi-nationals in direct violation of the UNCLOS Law of the Sea agreement, and even attempted day-light robbery through a shady memorandum. I still think the said annexation is exaggerated; Somalia's territorial integrity (maritime or otherwise) remain unchanged. Every piece of UN resolution that was issued since our center fell affirms it. But even if I accept your argument Kenya and Ethiopia are out to get our land, Jubbaland conflict and the government approach does not help in achieving what Somalia needs the most; unity. Unless you believe those leading Jubbaland initiative and those supporting it (Puntland etc) are less patriotic and less concern with Somalia's territorial integrity , and ONLY those in Mogadishu has the best national interest at heart for Somalia, I cannot see how antagonizing them would help defend our maritime lines. Think of it this way: Somalia will come back and revive but not in the same form it was when it fell. So much changed, that it is extremely naive to mimic the old Barre and espouse same notions of nationalism - Nationalism today goes through respecting the political framework that produced Hassan, respecting the new social contract as Baashi likes to put, and adhering to the tenants of federalism for the next three years.

We all recognize Somaliland's aspirations , we understand it wishes to leave the union

Chimera;953510 wrote: Lmao, go back to my first post sxb, I agreed with you from the start but had to defend that same political opinion from being heckled, and after that was forced to defend the SFG from blatant political bias, otherwise there is no disagreement here, and my original intention was to welcome you back and do a drive-by post, nothing more nothing less. @Xiin - When has Madoobe and his team ever visited the capital of Somalia? The Federal government has send several delegations, even a high-ranking one in the form of the Prime-minister, but nothing similar has come from the other side, despite invitations from Mogadishu. However Madoobe and his team have visited Nairobi on numerous occassions. Now if they were a seccessionist group like Somaliland, I understand that they would prefer foreign capitals over the national one, but Jubbaland is supposed to be a federal state of Somalia, yet its leaders can't even muster the courage to visit their own capital. There is no way the President could place him under house-arrest without facing a major backlash, so please don't entertain that train of thought. Chimera, if you have been following this Jubbaland story , Ahmed Madoobe and his team sent a high caliber men like Professor Gandi to Mogadishu to 1) talk to the government about this effort and 2) invite them to participate and play their role . Watch Professor Gaandi himself telling the world what happened to him and to his team when they got to Mogadishu. http://www.allidamaale.com/article.php?id=2551 The thing is Hassan and his team resolved at the get go to refuse the idea of Jubbaland for political reasons. Ahmed Madoobe and his team, on the other hand, repeatedly say that they recognize government's role. But if the government does not recognize their (Ahmed & his team's) effort there is nothing to talk about and go to Mogadishu to discuss. As for the prime minister's trip to Kismayo , do you know what his agenda was ? The prime minister proposed three things to Ahmed Madoobe and his men: 1) remain in the leadership of Kismayo, not Jubbaland, for six months 2) stop the conference and disband the 400 delegates, 3) and let the government organize a reconciliation conference in a time and place of her choosing. The counter proposal was, 1) no , we cannot remain in the leadership of this city as an appointed leaders, 2) we cannot stop the conference , a lot of effort went into bringing all these delegates together from various regions, and 3) the government is welcome to come and lead the conference as long the objective is to establish a Jubbaland federal state because that is what the people want. As to why Kenya & IGAD is involved, I believe that is obvious , Kenya has an understandable security interest in these regions, IGAD has a clear political role in Somalia that is not unique to Kismayo. One can believe conspiracy theories about Kenya stealing Somali land or maritime space , but the reality is Somalia is Somalia, no one in today's world can steal land

NGONGE got it right. The conflict revolves around the federal arrangement . Hassan picked a fight he could hardly win or prevail . The locals are united by and large, and the process has been more than credible by Somali standards. The notion that all the efforts that produced the Jubbaland Federal State should be committed to the flames simply because the leadership in Mogadishu is unhappy or suspicious about foreign & clannish hands in it is absurd . by the way, today's update from Kismayo is great

war illeen ibtilo --wax kasta ma laga murmayaa Cabdirashid is a business man first and for most. He will be a Chinese is that what it takes to make a profit

^^Yunus, no problem. I do not want an incident , but I want well informed debate in these boards . the difference

transparent lie , as always xaaji habaar misleads

Any time , nuune. Things get heated up, and we all (especially the young, passionate among us) lose perspective of things. Politics is very important part of our lives but it pales in comparison, and when put in the context ....

^^Take the position of IGAD, AMISOM, and neighboring countries as a hint as to where the said IC will eventually come down on this issue: 1) IGAD fully supported this process --one thinks with consultation with IC 2) AMISOM enabled and worked with the admin in Kismayo , secured the conference venue for the reconciliation and peace making to continue , which eventually produce current leadership. It is interesting that AMISOM (and I mean AMISOM command in Mogadishu) turned back certain flights from Mogadishu and denied them to land in Kismayo to ensure the smooth going of the conference. 3) neighboring countries has been very supportive this process for security reasons , particularly Ethiopia and Kenya. Thus far no country spoke against it other than Jabbuuti. Of course all of this could change , and this thing could be dramatically reversed but it is unlikely given the political and security ramifications

http://www.ted.com/talks/ric_elias.html I observed things heat up at times , and for that we lost some active debaters in this forum. Watch this when you get a chance It puts things in perspective

^^No : D , I am not playing a game I was just correcting you in taking serous about conspiracy theories that are intended to propel the gullible to the streets. I guess you are injecting some politics into the discussion which is fine by me, but lets not entertain conspiracy theories. International community with respect to Somali political disputes such as the one in Kismayo has been to quietly enforce course correction on one party or the other. They have been part of the Jubbaland effort from the get go...soon we will see some efforts to close the obvious gaps