Carafaat, assuming you are a true grieve stricken separatist, what the requirements espouse is in essence in line with what Somaliweyn camp wants. Once Somaliland is forced to come back and sit with the rest of Somalis, they will come back as a qabiil, and not as a government. The best they could fetch will be a referendum for secession. Naturally, the discussion will dwell on defining who would participate in a referendum dismembering Somalia. Communities in former British Somaliland colony? Or Somalis in the Republic? Predictably the discussion will drag on, and time will be on the side of Somaliweyn side. For the longer you talk to us, the better the chances are that you will remember the old good days and love will rekindle afresh Seriously, there is a rare political nugget in the above ee bal car lasoo bax, ama sidaadii qol inta isku xirtid 20 sano ku hayn dawlad baan ahay

All indications were that our region in the north was attempting to secure recognition before a legitimate government emerges from Somalia's civil war. Oh how misguided!

Mahiga deputy traveled to Hargeysa earlier to communicate to Somaliland USC expectations of Somaliland to participate in Somalia's national conference organized by the UN. Even earlier than that, and when UN Security C met in Nairobi with Somali stakeholders, Somaliland reps were told what they are expected to do. Later Somaliland reps mischaracterized the nature of the conference for media conception. I am hearing the argument Somaliland is making in these forums is that they will do what the UN Security C wants once a non transitional entity emerges from the conference. Looks like this is the only face saving formula left for the secessionists to come back and sit down with their brothers.

^^ :D

Buuhoodle, regardless of Puntland's position, is the next best city to hold this conference

'Pitfalls await', said the Greek philosopher, 'for he who dwells on generalities'. Prof. Abtigis might have been wronged by men of religion, and his grievances may be real and genuine. But that shall never justify the broad accusations he labeled against an entire segment of the society. The punishment (slandering all men of religion who congregate in the Houses of God) does not fit the alleged crime. But Prof. Abtigiis is not alone in formulating remedies to a problem that are clearly out of proportion. Ironically, the SNM he disparages so eloquently prescribed a painful dismemberment to the mother land based on a justified political grievances their community had under Barre regime. This is a worrying trend indeed. There is genuine discussion to be had on the proper role of men of religion in the affairs of local communities. Prof. Abtigiis's brush strokes and broad accusations will not advance that discussion.

LA would be a natural city but the fact secessionist flag is flying high in its sky contradicts the spirit of this consultation and the political neutrality this conference requires. I would vote for Buuhoodle, the city where the dignity of reer tolkay is still preserved, not to mention its historical significance as the source of Darwish movement.

^^Waryaa Gheelle Prof. Abtigiis hawl culus buu ku jiraa, nimankan wareeray buu tacliiminayaa. As for Puntland the good Professor rightly characterized Faroole's confusion about what kind of Somalia he wants to shape. A one with weak and feuding states vulnerable for foreign mingling and intervention? Or a cohesive state whose political framework is reflective of its geographical and demographic realities? What is Federalism in relation to Somalia is the question and I am afraid few including Faroole can anwser that question objectively.

^^Awoowe you are getting ahead yourself here and you know it. If you find something to be giddy about in that wikileak report, you need to be schooled about the difference between success an failure. Twenty years of tireless advocacy and the result is go back and talk to your fellow country men and secure a legal separation something along the South Sudan process...just like the American said the requirement is very unrealistic for a separation to occur.

Abtigiis;746066 wrote: If this is true, and I await Xinnfanin's confirmation, - if the whole of the puntlanders support Faroole's hawkish posturing againt the TFG and his 'we will go it alone' rethoric, then I have to concede Carafaat's accusations against me are valid and legitimate. However, this thread is about Faroole and secession, not about apportioning blame for the collapse of the Somali State. I was of the opinion Punlanders are incurably fixated with taking state power at all costs, but are fully behind the blue flag and Somalia's territorial integrity. When the discussion turns to the latter (who was responsible for the demise of Somalia), it will be hard to find anyone to spare. Indeed, Puntlanders were the first to fire the bullet of treason from Ethiopia, a tactic latter copied by SNM to a devastating finale. But, General Aideed and the horde of anarchists he led take a big share of the instability.The Anarachists in South and Central are the ones who sired the most disgraceful of traitors and killers. Mohamed Dheere, Ali Gheedi, Indhacadde, Abdi Qaybiid, Suudi Yalaxow,Osman Atto are not from Garowe or Hargeysa. Everyone took part in taking the life out of the Somai State, including the dictator who morphed into a clan shell when his power came under threat. Even my Tolkay who always had the role of a footnote in the political goings of Somalia were not outdone in claiming the maimimg of Somalia. Colonel Ahmed Omer Jess and his big-footed militias are responsible for one of the clearest cases of clan cleansing in Kismayo, where they killed the who is who of a clan that has equal rights as they do in the town. This is well before the Azania professor dreamed in broad daylight about a tribal homeland, where he will be a dark king. This is not about that. And we certainly don't get much benefit from seizing ourselves with matters of who killed who in a context no one will look whiter than the other. We, however, should focus on what can unite us and reflect on the potential we have as a nation to come out of the shame we are in. That requires a serious introspection. Let us view ourselves as one sinned nation than focus on who sinned us and who we sinned against. One million has died in Rwanda's genocide and the answer isn't secession. If it doesn't make sense in Rwanda, why in Somalia with no hard-feelings towards one another as is the case in Rwanda. Well said. Maanta dhan hadal lama saaarnaan karo, but this narrative waa hadal sax ah

Abtigiis;746070 wrote: Xinnfanin, Ayoub is not damiin. Far from it. That I know.But he doesn't have a good cause to defend. It is the strength of your cause that makes your arguments strong. For such a cheap cause, his fightback actually is not bad. You can see Norf has tried as well. If the two could have a cause higher than the Tolka remonstrations, it is clear they could do more than they so far did. I agreed.

I am sure the hired Somali boys are front of western effort to humiliate the Turkish humanitarian gesture toward Somalia. There is Turkish Humanitarian ship en route to Kismayo, lets see how the TFG boys react. http://www.hiiraan.com/news/2011/Sept/wararka_maanta13-14992.htm

^^She can flirt all she wants, but she is still mine awoowe :D Waryaa intaa noogu daaya maanta Stoic , right indeed! Somalis are not many to begin with so for your relationship to be confined with the artificial clan bounders would've limited your horizon.

^Read my salaams to the old man :D

^^Jacayl knows he will not be recognized. He is facing a dilemma and is not smart enough to err on the righteous side even if the price is temporary internal strife. In other words, Somaliland has finally come to the fork of the road, and just like a dizzied bird, she does not know which branch to take.

Somaliland is not a runaway pride. True to our nomadic tradition, when the family dispute started, elders as commanded by the Quran attempted to interfere and mediate. But the elders that convened under Burco acacia tree were not representative of the both sides of the family. Naturally what they thought was the solution was not accepted by the other side. And the other side, it must be bore in mind, has the final authority to sanction a divorce. Lamana kala maqnayn oo hadde waa laysku dhuudhamanayey ee xisaabta ku dara lest some say twenty years of no relationship would default a divorce

Good one prof. Abtigiis Most Somalis do not fully appreciate the difference between representation and Federalism. Many think Federalism will remedy all the dictatorial ills that flourished during Barre regime. However, we must remember, that out of the shock that stricken Somalia when its political center fell, three political propositions emerged; 1) Federalism, 2) Separatism and 3) Alshabaab, each presenting itself as the solution. If Somalia is forced to choose one of the three, Federalism is the least harmful if adopted as temporary arrangement inta laga bogsanayyo. But on its merits, Federalism is not applicable to Somalia. Those who are most loud in its support today ironically will be its least beneficiaries if strictly applied. For Federalism benefits those who have the largest population (representation), and resource (in terms of managing the resource of national pie). There is no doubt Somalia's resource is in the South. And when peace returns so will the population. Faroole should be careful what he wishes...

^^Correct. My comments were toward Somalia's territorial integrity vs Separatist efforts. I know Somalia is not in a good shape in terms of security and stability.

Palestine will at worst get a Vatican like status in the UN, where it could have the opportunity to be member of many UN organs. At best (which is unlikely with America's assured veto) it will win a full membership in the UN. Either way, it will embarrass both US and Israel. Obama admin knows this, that is why it is pressuring Palestinian authority not to go ahead with this, or if it does go ahead (as it will), to go directly to the General assembly, and not to the Security C.

I didn't know Ayoub was a dammiin Waryaa, lets put it this way: the South/North marriage of 1960 was sanctified on the basis of mutual love between the two. If you carefully read 1960 marriage documents,you will realize that the document explicitly preempts any suggestions of divorce for trivial reasons. For instance, there are specific clauses against asking divorce based on Masayr, Masruuf & Marasho la'aan, xoogaa dharbaaxo iwm. In other words the marriage was meant to be eternal. Waa laysigu duceeyey awoowe

This is a great progress indeed for Somalia. Oodweyne refused to share his insights with the gallery , but after the rise of wikileaks we all become insiders. We now know that Somaliland is no closer to recognition than it was in 1991. It is also vindicating that the very arguments we presented to these boards against dismemberment are the ones AU built the unrealistic requirements it put in place.

Mogadishu is coming back, and with it the country insha Allah

This is a reminder of the need for strong, unified Somalia

I am not sure Xaaji Xunjuf and Carafaat but Ayoub knows his argument is quite shallow and has no depth. Whatever the original aspirations for greater Somalia were the birth of Somali Republic in 1960 was never contingent upon the realization (or securing) of other missing three region. To say that the Republic should be dismembered because she failed to bring the other three regions into the fold of greater Somalia is hadal quus ah oo la rabo in qadiyad daciif ah gaashaan loo dhigo...

^^The home of Ahmed Godane miyaa