^^ :D @you need to do a lip service to things of principle but must let them go on ^^That I STRONGLY disagree Prof. Abtigiis, and you know it. Waryaa NGONGE, xaafaduhu soo dalkayga maaha? Seriously, Kenya's invasion won't succeed just like the Ethiopian invasion did not work. The Somali conflict is a Somali hence needs a Somali solution. If the world is serious about it, TFG must be helped to do this.

^^There is no question in my mind that Sharif's knowledge about the world could be vastly improved But his is a credible propaganda, and not like the weak argument Siilaanyo presents to the world

Jacpher, at that time those who supported Sharif had a solid political justification. I for one would have supported him again if the political variables were the same and conditions remain as they were at the time. Hawl culus baa taallay awoowe, marka mid kale laguma dari karin, Waagaas waxay la mid ahayd, ninkii asagoo xaaskiisa iska rog-roganaya, la yiri hawl muhiim ah baa laguugu yeeray, suu ye, taan hayyo tu kale kuma dari karo . The goal was to get a unified government where all political factions were represented. That Alshabaab decided to continue the fight, and become the religious deviants they become is largely a hindsight story.

^^Waayadan fahmo darro aanan kugu ogeyn baad lasoo baxday, NGONGE. Prof. Abtigiis, wuxuu yiraahdo inta badan waa i dhacaan, waayadaanna si gaara bayba ii galaan. Aniga iyo asagu si baan isku xignaa awoowe Taasi waa taa, ee si fiican u qaniin waryaa. Tan kale, hawshii SSC, oo dhaqso laguu baray baaban isla keeni waynaye, ma u malaynaysaa inaan tan Kismaayo ku heshiinayno

This shows the level of desperation from the secessionist camp. When rejected in the relevant regional assemblies, separatist supporters resorted to incoherent, meaningless opinion papers to persuade the world . The name of the game is political stability and legal precedent. Overcome that ya guxuush

What NGONGE needs to know is that opposing foreign invasion comes naturally to Prof. Abtigiis. Despite NGONGE's intellectual tickling, the good Professor is holding strong against the weak rationalization coming from some of the posters here. In the long term, Kenya will lose this one big. I wish I could say that Somalis will win big as well. But they may never will.

^^nuune you are mistaken if you think Kenya army is incompetent. Bravery is a nomadic fairytale. In reality, and in the modern warfare, bravery is not even a consideration. You get the amo, the equipment, intelligence, and the aerial and logistical support, and the advantage is yours. If bravery was a differentiating factor in wars, Palestinians would've won longtime ago. Read history awoowe. The British conquered the world not with fighting white men, but with recruited natives with superior equipment and logistical support.

^^Well, no one is disagreeing you on the premise that Al shabaab are bad and ruthless. The debate is whether Kenya's invasion is the remedy. AMISOM proved to be a half measure. The fact students were blown to pieces in an area under AMISOM control is a testimony to that. Kenya says it acted out of its national interest; her soldiers will not die for Somalia, they are sent to defend Kenya's interest. In light of some reports, Kenya's interest may go beyond security. Even absent of that, this invasion introduces another complicating factor in a conflict that proved very intricate and complex. And if the history of Alshabaab is any measure, they thrive in the kind of environment such invasion will ultimately create. Those are the objections you need to address. Repeating 'Alshabaab kills people in great numbers' is neither here nor there.

Alshabaab is bad, foreign invasions to further own regional interest is therefore good. There is a name for that kind of logic.

Ironically this invasion by Kenya may actually benefit Sharif personally for he may get the extension he was angling to get. But for Somalia, it may prove disastrous. Because of Kenya's military activity in the South, Sharif will be tempted to alter if not ignore the upcoming August term limit.

^^Prof. Abtigiis , right on!! That is how you fight the private message pressure to support Keyna's invasion. You've made your stance quite eloquently, and there is no going back awoowe.

I for one never doubted Prof. Abtigiis's nationalist bent. The reason I did not directly engage him yesterday was because the information we had at the time allowed such divergence of opinion as to what the consequence of Keyna's invasion could be. But in light of this report, he did what is expected of him, which to reject any hint of aggression on Somalia's territorial integrity, water or land.

^^ :D Xaaji and the rest of the secessionist crowd could care less about the notion of Somalia's territorial integrity. They will welcome anything that challenges that barrier. But I expect them to be reasonable in what they present as an argument here.

N.O.R.F;752235 wrote: Heh Say more, North. In light of this expose', do you think some of us were justified in their believe that no foreign forces will ever be able to stabilize Somalia. The alternative is to strengthen Somalia's security capacity. Compared to the millions invested in short time workarounds, helping Somalia's military institution stand up will be rather cheap way to address the Somali question.

Che, apparently Kenya's interest are beyond security. Inserting territorial questions into the Road Map (which I completely missed) is quite telling about Western powers intentions about Somalia. One must give credit to Somalis for refusing to give in on matters concerning their territorial integrity so far. The resolutions passed by the weak parliament is quite impressive really. Before this article, I have not seen any of these activities, wallah!!!!

May be, just may be, this (and not the purported abductions by Alshabaab) is the reason for Kenya's 'incursions' into southern Somalia.

http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/Somalia_27/Somalia_The_Roadmap_Gets_a_Tear_on_the_EEZ.shtml

LOL@Maxaad ka khashaafaysaa War ninyahow arday madax adag baa tahay; intaa waad iska kay jirtaa oo casharkaan qoraa kuma galo. Bal Val aan sugno

^^Xaaji, the SSC folks are historically from strong powerhouse, the genes are from eastern mountains where their noble grandfather is buried today. you've been outran indeed, the source of your weakness go back to your beginning. If you don't know I am a part time Cultural Anthropologist, and have keen observation to Somali tribal composition and beginning, and in that verse I can easily recite you the poems of that prophetic albeit a bit arrogant, the once King of Hawd Region in relation to your political defeats and ever lasting frustrations; Galka siraw markii raacdadii laysku soo gaaray Neefyahow guduudani midkii gaabiyaaad tahaye Guuldarada waxaa kuugu waxan geenyadii hore'e

Take out the tribal dimension you injected, and your analysis are well put together.

Aaliyyah;752051 wrote: loving this video. mashallah... A khadar keep posting more videos..and next yr u betta be there Bal dadka saa u qurxoon bay rabaan nimanka reer Waqooyiga ahi inay Soomaali ka gooyaan. War wuxu caqli xumaa

That is not true, Xaaji X. There was never a real effort to build the only institution that could save Somalia. The reason has always been weak and remains so till today. It is in the name of balance of power, which says we cannot strengthen the TFG when it is temporary and lacks legitimacy from all Somalis. It shows how disingenuous these military invasions are. It may be good for Keyna to show the West that she can defend its territory and safeguard Western investment and ensure economic stability. It does not solve the aslshabaab problem.

^^Liibaan did not rant, xaaji. He reminded you the real variables of the political equation in that region. His was unusual nuggets of wisdom that you need to ponder on. In a sentence or two, Val destroyed the weak argument you so laboriously constructed. It may as well be a news to you, but I have a lot of things in common with the region that's effectively derailing your statehood claims. I am not ashamed by pointing out that bit of fact, nor does it contradict my overall stand and national reconciliation Caravans that my pen often sends out. To think so is a failure of comprehension , which I never suspected on your part.

I am in agreement with Alshabaab being the source of instability in Somalia today, and the need to militarily defeat it by any cost. I am not sure however foreign forces will ever be capable of doing that without the real risk of stoking Somali nationalism, creating moral and political support for the very alshabaab they intend to defeat. And particularly the timing of Kenyan invasion could not be any worse for Alshabaab was losing both ground and support, and TFG was gaining momentum so much so that Alshabaab's grip of power was rapidly diminishing. The Kenyan invasion has the effect of legitimizing Alshabaab, in essence giving them a new lifeline. I am in the opinion, Alshabaab can only be defeated by Somalis. So a real strategy for Alshabaab defeat would be to helping Somali army stand up and equip them with superior military hardware. Allow Somalis to have the big guns, and they will take care of Alshabaab in no time.

^^That is a well delivered lecture, a politico 101 for NGONGE Bal imisaan lahaa bahasha ma taqaanid ee iska daa, caku nin weynaan qabiil ku bartay.