It is fair to say that xiinfaniin is an exaggerated online persona that does not warrant all these attentions he's being offered in these boards. He does not deserve apology nor dedicated threads

I see a convergence of interest here; a separatist who wishes to hasten the proliferation of statelets where a national framework is no wise possible and a mad, confused character called Abtigis who is in a dire need to cover his defense of Ethiopian and Kenyan invasion with a nationalistic gown. I disagree with the premise that invading armies will make Somalia alshabaab free. Hence the biggest anomaly in Abtigis's argument is the assumption that alshabaab will be gotten rid off by Ethiopian and Kenyan invasion and Somalis will therefore get a fresh start to scope things out. he is conveniently forgetting that Alshabaab are Somalis and are part of Somalia's political, social and religious fabric just like Taliban of Afghanistan is part of that country's fabric. I could be wrong but I don't honestly buy this wishful thinking and false hope that foreign invasions by the very countries that has been meddling in Somalia's internal affairs are good now simply because alshabaab are evil I was accused many things in these boards but I was never accused with pessimism . So Abtigis is spinning in every direction to find something that sticks. Before he accused Xiin with inconsistency. Now he is saying all Xiin wants is to be consistent. Before that he accused Xiin with being naive and hopeful. Now he is saying Xiin is pessimist. And even before that he was saying Xiin is clannish at heart. Now he is saying Xiin is a devout nationalist . Which one is it, ya Jamacah ? Now lets bring this debate to conclusion , and say that Xiin disagrees with Abtigis's exuberance in the looming foreign invasions with respect to the effect these invasions will have on Somalia political and security trajectory. Weligeed ba Puntland, Somaliland iyo Tolka ha ku rafato, Waa hubaal inaan ciidan Ethiopian ama Kenyan ahi Puntland iyo Somaliland dhisin haddana joogin, Dabageed, Gandhi, and Mohamed Dheere waa niman shisheeye xiniinyihii raba inay caano ku maalaan, tusaalooyin kale halloo raadiyo, ee yaan ragga ceebta lagula galgalan. Intaanna hannoo joogto,

^^Not a bad call. I am on my heels as I race to exit the building and head home for a long, Thanksgiving weekend. So let me brief: Two scenarios I can foresee: 1- Foreign armies succeed in driving alshabaab out of current strongholds and erect friendly statelets or militias 2- Foreign armies get bogged down and fail, resorting to find a face saving exit, leaving behind a much emboldened alshabaab In my opinion both scenarios will leave behind a more polarized, divided, Somalia with perhaps no TFG to symbolize a cohesive political framework. And this is why I am so passionately opposed the new intervention. And with that I yield the floor to my good friend Prof Abtigis, waa inoo Isniinta haddii alle idmo ya jamacah

Abtigiis, If you prefer warlords to alshabaab, and think Ethiopian and Kenyan occupations are good for Somalia, then your protest my good friend is not warranted. The positions you stake and stances you take have consequences and as such the quandary in your argument is that you want to make a distinction without a difference. Ethiopia and Kenya, if they succeed, will reinstate warlords and create new clannish statelets, which will in turn cultivate the political ground anew for alshabaab. That is not only xiin analysis---it is the experience from other conflicts were foreign armies intervened. It is what impartial analysts are saying. So you gotta be comfortable with your position; your arguments match, nay support, that of Mohamed Dheere and Dabageed. It shows the intellectual bankruptcy of 'anything but alshabaab'

^^Adeer admit it at best you are carried away with your opposition to Alshabaab. You need to regain your sense of moderation and accept geopolitical realities in the horn. You may not be singing to Zenawi in the literal sense but by adopting this nonsensical argument of 'anything but alshabaab', which trivializes the whole struggle Somalis have been facing for the last twenty years, you are becoming a useful ***** for regional ambitions, Ethiopia included. You thought Kenya's incursion was a heartfelt, neighborly gesture to help Somalia get rid off alshabaab menace. We told you otherwise. Predictably Ethiopia followed suit, and you are now telling us that you don't like the incarnation of warlords, slowly emerging along Ethiopian tanks. My bashfulness does not allow me to call you the fool you are. however, if truth were to boldly told, what you wrote, good Abtigiis, was quite foolish.

Gabdhahaan reer Ohio in lacag laga siiyo bay ahayd sawiradooda layska isticmaalayo oo internet ka ka buuxa

Mohamed Dheere oo soo dhaweyey Ethiopia Maxamed Cumar Xabeeb [M. Dheere] oo soo noqday gudoomiyaha gobolka Banaadir iyo duqa Muqdisho oo maanta shir jaraa'id ku qabtay Muqdisho ayaa sheegay in DF ay ku saxan tahay inay ciidamo Ethiopian ah u yeerato ay si ay uga caawiyaan dagaalka ay kula jirto Al-shabaab. Maxamed Dheere wuxuu sheegay in DF oo keliya aysan ku filnayn inay Al-shabaab ka adkaato, sidaa daraadeedna loo baahan yahay inay u yeerato quwado shisheeye oo gacan ka siiya sida Ethiopia iyo Kenya. "Dowlada Somalia iyo shacabku kuma filnay inay ka adkaadaan Al-shabaab, waayo waa koox wadata dambiilayaal caalami ah iyo Ururo Argagaxiso oo ay adag tahay in laga adkaado iyadoo aan la helin kaalmo caalami ah" ayuu yiri Maxamed Dheere. Gudoomiyihii hore ee gobolka Banaadir wuxuu sheegay in dagaalka ka socda Somalia uu u gudbay mid caalami ah, sidaa daraadeedna loo baahan yahay inay DF gacan weydiisato dalalka dariska ah. "In Dowladu ay u kaashato Kenya iyo Ethiopia dagaalka ay kula jirto Al-Shabaab oo diiday nabad ka dhalata Somalia wax dhibaato ah ma lahan, waayo kooxdan lagama adkaan karo sidaan soo sheegay iyadoo aan ciidamo badan loo helin" ayuu yiri M. Dhere oo intaas ku daray inuu soo dhaweynayo ciidamada Ethiopia. Xukuumada Adiss ayaa sanadkii 2006 waxay xuduuda ay la wadaagto Somalia ka talaabisay ciidamo badan kuwaasoo ka hortagay duulaan ay maxkamadihii Islaamku sheegeen inay ku qaadayaan Ethiopia, waxaana howgalkaas uu socday mudo 3-sanno ah. Ciidamada Ethiopia ayaa todobaadkan lagu arkay gudaha Somalia inkastoo ay weli inkirsan tahay Ethiopia inay ciidamadeedu gudaha u galeen Somalia, balse dadka ku sugan gobolada Galguduud iyo Hiiraan ayaa sheegaya inay ciidamo Ethiopian ah oo aad u qalabeysan ay ku sugan yihiin Goboladaas.

US official warns Ethiopia not to invade Somalia, but it's too late Sunday, November 20, 2011 The State Department's top Africa policymaker on Tuesday warned Ethiopia not to invade Somalia, but the warning came too late, with Somalis claiming that Ethiopian troops were already rolling through their villages in trucks. The statement from Johnnie Carson, the assistant secretary of state for African affairs, was a sign that Washington is growing increasingly wary of a month-old offensive against the Islamist militant group al-Shabab that was launched by Kenya and now appears to include Ethiopia. "We firmly believe that the best way to deal with al-Shabab and the way to restore stability is working with AMISOM militarily, using them as a vehicle to advance security," Carson said in response to a question during a conference call with reporters. AMISOM is the acronym for the African Union peacekeeping mission in Somalia, which is manned mostly by troops from Uganda and Burundi. "I would remind the caller that Ethiopia went into Somalia some four and a half years ago and stayed for approximately two and a half to three years. That effort was not universally successful and led in fact to the rise of Shabab after they pulled out," Carson said. Carson's remarks also could be viewed as a rebuke of Kenya, another U.S. ally in East Africa. Kenyan troops invaded Somalia last month, ostensibly after kidnappings along its border with Somalia. According to U.S. diplomatic cables made public by WikiLeaks, Carson was very critical in 2010 of a Kenyan plan to use proxy Somali militias to go on an offensive against al-Shabab and create space for a regional administration in southern Somalia. U.S. officials say Kenya did not consult them before launching its recent incursion. Now, Somalis say, Ethiopia has joined the fray. Abdi Wehliye, 43, who lives in Gurieel town in central Somalia's Galgudud region, says that fellow townsmen saw Ethiopian troops rolling up on Saturday evening. He saw them Sunday morning 5 kilometers outside town, where he says they have pitched camp. On Sunday, Ethiopian commanders, escorted by a small number of troops, came into the town to meet with local elders and officials, he said. Somalis are notoriously xenophobic when it comes to outside interference in their own affairs, and Somalis view Ethiopia as a historical arch nemesis. That sentiment was used by al-Shabab during Ethiopia's 2006-2008 occupation to rally support for its insurgency. The U.S. is all too aware of that history, having backed Ethiopia's military adventure in 2006. The U.S. itself pulled troops out of Somalia in the early 1990s after they became the targets of regular Somali attacks. Wehliye said, however, that while people don't like Ethiopians, their dismay has been tempered by their anger at al-Shabab for its brutal and ultimately disastrous administrative tactics, which many blame for the devastating famine that is expected to leave hundreds of thousands dead this year in central and southern Somalia. Al-Shabab banned most Western aid and recruits barely teenage boys to fight. "I thought some people would jump and start carrying guns against Ethiopia but it seems they are not yet sure what they want," Wehliye said in a phone interview. "Many Somalis hate al Shabab for what they have done to them and their families." Ethiopian troops have also entered central Somalia's Hiraan region, said a resident of Beledweyne town who asked to be identified only as Hussein for security reasons. He said that al-Shabab had treated Somalis like "slaves in our own country" and that he welcomed the Ethiopians, who he said had arrived near Beledweyne in five trucks in recent days. "I support anyone who helps us fight al-Shabab. We want to get our freedom back. Al-Shabab are the ones who brought this entire problem on us. They are the reason so many countries want to invade Somalia," he said. Not everyone reached by phone seemed keen on an Ethiopian presence, however, a fact that U.S. officials are certain to seize on to discourage a prolonged presence inside Somalia. The Ethiopian government has categorically denied that its troops have entered Somalia. Waeys Ahmed, who is also from Gurieel, said he would be happy to see al-Shabab "wiped out." "But with Ethiopia and Kenya coming to fight al-Shabab, I don't think it's good for the interest of Somalis. They have their own agendas," he said. "This is taking us back to where we were in 2007, when al-Shabab enjoyed more support from the population." The Somali government, which from its limited control in Mogadishu can do little about the arrival of foreign troops, has struggled to find the right tone in responding to the incursions. On Tuesday, Somalia government spokesman Abdirahman Omar Osman said that while Kenya is welcome because it entered into an agreement with his government, Ethiopia is not. "We are a sovereign country, so foreign troops cannot enter without bilateral agreement or a legal mandate," Osman said. But he also said he was taking the Ethiopian denials at face value, despite what Somali residents say. "There are no Ethiopian troops on our soil," he said.

As we said before Abtigis is a wounded man. Waa rafanayaa, wax u xeerinayo ma jiraan NGONGE wuxuu i xasuusinayaa, ruwaayadii Aw Bustaale. Think of Abtigiis as Aw Bustaale, and NGONGE as the xerowgii, dadka sheekha u waabin jirey oo marku sheekhu soo fariisto qasiidadii Aw Bustaalow Barakadaada qaadi jirey Waa wareeray odogii NGONGE ahaa

Abtigiis, For you to suggest that Ethiopian occupation is better than the current status qua is a new low. Perhaps the heat of these running arguments you are engaged with the xiin online persona is blinding you to that reality. I suggest you go an empty room, and repeat out loud what you are writing on this forum with respect to foreign armies invading Somalia, and see if you can make sense out of what you are saying .

^^NGONGE has become the first casualty of the recent development in Somalia. Hadal tirada ilaah ku ibtileeyey buu moodayaa inuu dood macno leh samayo Wallee qaaxo nimay taabataan, soo qufuci waayin bay maraysaa tiisu hadda

^^If the emergence of Dabodheeg does not alarm you, and I don't know what will awoowe. Unless ofcourse you buy good NGONGE's 'anthing but alshabaab' nosnense

The Zack, believe me when I say this: dadka SOL ka murma adigu kuwa ugu muxtaramsan baad ku jirtaa xaggayga. Laakin Kenya iyo Jubbooyinka si bay kuu kala gameen ninyahow

YUUSUF DABO-GEED: "Waa soo dhaweyneynaa Ciidamada Itoobiya, haddii ay gacan naga siinayaan dagaalka aan kula jirno Al-shabaab" Arbaco, November 23, 2011 (HOL) − Guddoomiyihii hore ee maamulkii dowladda ee gobolka Hiiraan Yuusuf Axmed Hagar ‘’Dabageed’’ oo u la hadllay warbaahinta ayaa sheegay in ciidamada Itoobiyaan ah waqtigan joogin qeybo ka mid ah gobollka Hiiraan. "Itoobiya waxaa ay joogtaan deegaannada dhinaca xadka xiga, hadda meel ka mid ah gobolka Hiiraan oo ay ku sugan tahay ma sheegi karo, laakiin haddii ay naga caawineyso dagaallka ka dhan-ka Xarrakada Al-shabaab waan soo dhaweyneynaa ayuu yiri,’’ Yuusuf Dabageed. Dhinaca kale Yuusuf Dabageed waxaa uu siweyn u dhaliilay dowladda KMG Soomaaliya oo sida uu sheegay u muuqata mid iska iloowday gobolka Hiiraan, isaga oo sheegay in dowladdu dayacday dhamaan wixii xuquuq ah oo ay ku lahaayeen dadka gobolka. "Anaga dowladda waan taabacsannahay, laakiin dowladdu dan kama laha gobolka, xitaa xiriir lama laha saraakiisha gobolka joogta ee ka dagaalameysa, sidaa daraadeed eeda arintaa inta badan waxaa dusha ka saareynaa kuwa gobolka ka soo jeeda ee dowladda ka mid ah ayuu yiri,’’ Yuusuf Dabageed. Dhinaca kale waxaa uu sheegay in ay wadaan qorshe dagaal oo ay doonayaan in ay kula wareegaan magaalada Beledweyne ee xarunta u ah gobolka Hiiraan, laakiin waa uu ka gaabsaday in qorshaha uu sheegay in ay wadaan qeyb ka yihiin saraakiisha dowladda Itoobiya. Deegaannka Kala-beyr ee gobolka Hiiraan ayaa ah halka ay ku sugan yihiin xoogagga maamulka Dooxada Shabeelle ee sida weyn uga soo horjeeda Xarrakada Mujaahidiita Al-shabaab ee iyagu gacanta ku haya inta badan degmooyinka gobolka, waxaana xusid mudan in dhowr jeer oo hore xoogagga Dooxada Shabeelle soo qaadeen weeraro ay doonayeen in ay kula wareegaan magaalada Beledweyne laakiin uma suurtagalin. Hiiraan Online, New Disk

It is amusing to watch our splittists brothers in the North congregating here on SOL forum for a prayer against Puntland

^^And he also realizes that with Ethiopian boots on the ground, the grand clannish scheme he might've hand in devising it will certainly be disrupted

Waxaa khilaf xooggan soo kala dhex galay madaxda Kenya, gaar ahaan Ra'iisul Wasaaraha Kenya Odinga iyo wasiirka Gaashaandhigga Yuusuf Xaaji, khilaafkaas oo salka ku haya kaddib markii Odinga uu Israel weydiistey kaalmo si ay uga caawiyaan hawlgalkooda militari ee ay ku galeen Soomaaliya. Arrintaasi waxa kale oo ay sababtay in Kibaki uu degdeg safar ugu aado qaar kamid ah dalalka Islaamka. Hoos ka daawo warbixintaas. http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000047026&cid=4&ttl=Somalia:%20Kibaki%20seeks%20support%20from%20Arab%20world

Faarax Macallin: Ma dhici doonto in Mardambe Xamar looga taliyo Kulbiyow, ninka taas ku riyoonayana waxaa uu ku nool yahay qarni kale... "Gelitaanka Ciidamada Itoobiya ay galeen Soomaaliya waxay dhibaato weyn u keeneysaa hawlgalka Kenya..." Faarax Macallim Nov 22, 2011: Guddoomiye ku xigeenka Baarlamaanka Dalka Kenya, Faarax macallin oo ay waraysi la yeelatay idaacadda Alfurqaan ayaa sheegay in uu ka soo horjeedo soo gelitaanka ciidanka Itoobiya ay markale ku soo galeen gudaha Soomaaliya, isagoo arrintaas ka hadlaya waxa uu yiri "Itoobiya taariikhdeedu waa mid ka duwan taayada (Kenya), waana mid soo jireena ah, marka soo gelitaanka ay hadda soo galeen (Soomaaliya) ma soo dhaweyneyno, waxaana u arkeynaa mid dhib weyn u keeneysa hawlgalkanagii oo waji kale oo loo yeeli karo." Laakiin Faarax Macallin waxa uu sheegay in taas ay ka duwan tahay Kenya hawlgalkeeda (duullaanka) ay ka waddo gudaha Soomaaliya. Waxa kale oo uu ka hadlay dastuurka DFKMG (ee lagu soo sameeyey Kenya) waxana uu yiri dastuurkaas "annagu" (kenya) uma soo samayn, waana Federaal, kaas oo uu markaas raaciyey "ma dhici doonto mar dambe in xamar laga taliyo oo nin jooga Kulbiyow....." Hoos ka dhegeyso: * Waraysigii Faarax Macallin ee ka dhegeyso Halkan (Alfurqaan) Kenya iyo Ethiopia waxay gumaystayaashii reer Yurub ay gacanta u geliyeen dhul Soomaaliyeed (NFD iyo Soomaali Galbeed), taas oo ay shacab Soomaaliyeed qarnigan ku hoos nool yihiin gumaysiyadaas oo aysan xor u ahayn in ay ka tashadaan mustaqbalkooda. Duullaanka cusub waxay Kenya ku qaaday gudaha Soomaaliya 16-kii October 2011 markaas oo ciidan koodu galeen gudaha Soomaaliya. Waxaana soo shaac baxayey khilaaf u dhexeeya Itoobiya iyo Kenya oo ku saabsan cidda maamuleysa Jubbooyinka. Waxayna ahayd October 30-keedii markii Jariidadda EastAfrican ay qortay in Kenya, Ethiopia iyo Faransiisku ay ku Muransan yihiin Cidda Loo Dhiibayo Xakunka Kismaayo haddii la Qabsado Kaddib. Khilaaf soo kala dhex galay Madaxda Kenya Waxaa khilaf xooggan soo kala dhex galay madaxda Kenya, gaar ahaan Ra'iisul Wasaaraha Kenya Odinga iyo wasiirka Gaashaandhigga Yuusuf Xaaji, khilaafkaas oo salka ku haya kaddib markii Odinga uu Israel weydiistey kaalmo si ay uga caawiyaan hawlgalkooda militari ee ay ku galeen Soomaaliya. Arrintaasi waxa kale oo ay sababtay in Kibaki uu degdeg safar ugu aado qaar kamid ah dalalka Islaamka. Hoos ka daawo warbixintaas.

Xaaji Xunjuf;760691 wrote: I agree unity for Somalia eventhough hiilqaran brings some solutions they need an Army if you want to do something in Somalia you need an army. Xaaji Xunjuf , I knew you will come around and support what is good for the republic

Ethiopia is an extensional threat to Somalia. Despite of the myopia of some, that fact is rooted on the rock solid realities of the horn.

He is a Pitbull, and today he is particularly hungry for he smells blood

Anigu wax la qariyo ma aqaan, Nuune got my vote for two reasons 1) we are at the same age, 2) we believe Somalia shall be free from all external influences

On Amir, the man is avid follower of Somali affairs and has a keen interest in the geopolitical gymnastics that are exercised on the expense of Somalis.

Oodweyne;760643 wrote: And the tragedy of it all is that, here we have intelligent folks like Mr. Abtigiis (who should know better), but for some unaccountable reason, seemed to be forever hoping that some sort of "re-born Somalia" ; or at any rate "uncooked one" (for the benefit of others, if that picture is anything to go by), will be had at the time the fire that is the underneath political reality of Somalia finishes. Hence, no wonder, I do not question as to why the average illiterate Somalis in the dusty streets of that cursed country seemed to be royally confused about everything; given, that their brightest and best educated ones (in which the likes of Mr. Abtigiis comes to mind) seemed to falling for the oldest trick of the world in which any territorially ambitions nations in the world always tell it's intended victim. Which is that of saying I am out to help you in here. And, this of course, in turn, was the precise line of argument that Herr Hitler have told those French's rich folks who feared the Communist when he invaded their country in 1940 . And he told them, that their hard-earned money and their upper-class lifestyle was safe with his Nazi's regime right-wing politics, lest the Soviet's inspired proletariat revolution that was coming from the French left at that time was devoured them all... Consequently, according to the sentiment that has been aired around here too often, it seemed to be suggesting that the Kenya and Ethiopia are selflessly going to clean the stables for that "pretty girl" call TFG in Mogadishu , given that her hands seemed to be occupied with a large and wet dose of "Henna" at the moment. And, therefore when the dirty job is done, then, they (i,e., Ethiopia and Kenya) will gladly hand-over the "keys" of the Jubba region to her; so that she could move in to that "clean house" , and live there, happily, ever after, indeed... :D Aah, what a jaw-dropping fantasy we weave, when our fancy takes a flight of it's own, indeed... Succinctly put indeed. History repeats itself

Zenawi couldn't have been proud of Abtigiis. The Ethiopian's educational investment in him have finally paid off. On the most reliable Somali online forum, Abtigis is proved to be the most passionate in support of the alleged Ethiopian invasion.