Originally posted by nuune: ^^ He has already said to you "i don't expect you to understand all this." I am sure you are as lucid as he is.

Originally posted by muriidi: back in the days people would have answered with"without God you wouldn't be here.." but that lead to descartes..who was a radical/extremist plato critic ..and in a negative sarcastic way. he created a lot of trouble in france and its trade partners in asia,and until today japanese people fearfully ask when they see french people"are you gonna pull a descarte on me?" the french revolution got rid of that,but only in france.a new type of government was formed that exported that to cambodia for example... but since the judicial courts were seperated from "those who like to say that they are the government",it's not hell on earth. after the revolution of the ikhwan muslimin (sayid qutub etc.) many "islamists" export their ideas to unknowing westerners or nationalist in their homelands,they don't work in the real islamic community. seriously...burning sayid qutub books,but promoting silly cartoons and salman rushdie by creating all that commotion .openly supporting ben ladin thus making bush very happy.pushing away faithful people from other cultures,thus making their regimes very happy and making everyone easy to control...once again it's hell on earth and we're stuck between saudis,americans and european hyppocrites who aren't sure which side to bee on (maybe the indie movement is stronger) you lose your soul(identity) and you are made of passports,account numbers and internet passwords,that is all you are... anyway..afer we cut their heads off ( a la rovolution francaise),ofcourse we do that by correcting ourselves thus making them unemployed. as you see now the headless society ,desperately searching for leading figures...a whole U.N. assembly full of unemployed leaders,leaders? no man not leaders,just people trying to reduce our being on earth to that question(whether we had sexual relations with that woman or not,or whether the woman you had sex with was mankind or not,or whether we can get more out of her than just sex) you do good deeds..belief in God is implicit you do bad ..even if you explicitly claim to believe..you don't. since they made you do psycho tests i assume you're a low level "karrani" ,i don't expect you to understand all this.. ..so do you people have like batteries or do you run on solar power or..?? Did you forget to take your meds this morning???

Originally posted by muriidi: we can not "prove" the existence of god... we can only prove his necessity.. we really need God..that is clear... How is God necessary? Why do we need him? Incidently, I put the same question to one of my colleagues few days ago and she answered with another question - "How did you get this job? Its God who made it possible" I always find it amusing when people attribute their own hard work and effort on some invinsible sky being. To answer my colleague: I had to have a university degree just to be shortlisted, then went through various psychometric tests and finally 2 interviews to get the job. Its all due to my efforts, god did not play any part in it. Unfortunately, we dont see many people blaming God when things go bad - "The reason I didnt get that promotion is because of God".

Originally posted by genius pauper.: those beings who ascribe themselves to the sect so called "atheists" are but evidence for the existnce of GOD,. Please elaborate how I am "evidence"

Originally posted by genius pauper.: (for that matter like the atheist,) is just simply deny, in the name of seeking for evidence, while they are evidences for the existance of GOD. What evidence???

Originally posted by Raamsade: No, you deal with the evidence for human evolution that I presented first. You asked for it and I provided it. Be a man and either refute the evidence you specifically asked for or gracefully bow out of this debate. Sadly, he wont. Its a theme here, quick to ask for evidence but nver willing to provide any.

Originally posted by genius pauper.: how do you ascertain at first something which doesnt exist?..dont contradict your self. Tell you what, for once on this thread, why dont you and others provide the evidence to prove God's existance? I cant wait for it.

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" That is GOD. How do you disapprove something that does not exist?

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka: I don't see any difference of this scientist from a prophet. None of them offer irrefutable concerete evidence. My cosmic inurance policy or what I call Iiman is helping me to be a good person in this world whatever happens in the next. Somalia09, I don't know what you are missing. But life without faith must be so void. Me thinks. So why are you so quick to accept prophets and their fantastical stories without an ounce of evidence? Cosmic insurance policy? Isnt this similar to hedging your bets - just incase God does exist. What if that god turns out to be Apollo or Baal or Ra? Actually I find not having a faith quite liberating and makes me a better person. Let me ask you hypothetically: If somehow we are able to produce irrefutable concrete evidence that there is NO god, would you go out and start committing robbery, murder and rape???

"Che Guevara" ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION. Do you know what Atheism is?

Not such a lonely road, plenty of people on SOL with similar views. I am more interested in hearing about their journey to Atheism/Agnosticism.

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka: I personally think this kind of debate is worthless. I don't like Mullahs who twist science and other developments to try to fit it to one Hadeeth or Aayah in the Quran. I think that is not fair, for I think they are not obliged to compete with science. In the end, the benefits of believing outwieghs what can be achived by not believeing in anything. Unless people stop believing in the Quran literally, Islam will always be in competition with Science. What benefits am i missing out on for being an Atheist?

After 10 pages of discussions, let me go back to the purpose of this thread. I am interested in hearing from other atheists or agnostics or anyone who is questioning their religious beliefs.

And there lies one of the evils of religion - it always tries to impose itself on everybody! If to you, by observing your faith YOU will go to "heaven" - isnt that all you should be concerned about?

Originally posted by Norfsky: Arac, ps isn't there evidence in other fossil records that suggest a great flood did actually occur? Is this being denied/challenged by evolutionists? Of Species? or talking about Noah?