Alderman;757516 wrote: Hi, can anyone explain what 4.5 system is? 2+2+.5=4.5

The 4.5 System though not perfect is perhaps the most meaningful & judicious addition to the sphere of Somali Politics. Bigger clan groups will certainly have bigger representation than smaller clan groups. Democracy is in many ways the politics of demographics & hence clans with bigger populations ought to have a bigger weight than clans with smaller populations. Far from disenfranchising & driving smaller clans & groups to a position of obscure irrelevancy; it empowers them & guarantees them a position & presence in our political & social discourse.* A problem arises when a qualified person is refused an employment or even a political or military position he/she clearly deserves simply because of their clan or group affiliation & it's precisely this usage of the 4.5 that should be addressed & looked into.* The end of any Somali Government should be the empowering & mobilization of the minority & smaller clan groups in our struggle for a truly representative & just Somali Society where a person's true worth is measured more by their ability & qualification & less by their paternal grandfather's last name.*

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar;757400 wrote: Baliis, don't post clan names. I did not; but, Abu Mansur did! There's no reasonable alternative method of rephrasing what he said.

http://www.newsomali.com/2011/11/10/abuu-mansuur-******-iyo-*******-cagta-hoosteeda-ayaan-gelinay-haddii-aad-doonaysaanin-la-baabiiyo-waa-inaad-shabaabka-raacdaan/

A simple photoshop that can be easily created by any 12 year old. Before taking it as the official Kenyan view, folks have to establish the credibility of their allegations. I am sick & tired of these twisted rumors & fabrications by Somali media being passed around as a fact.

The Zack, Sorry to ruin your parade but most of the key group decisions taken by the "Jawahirs" post-91 are principled & mature responsible undertakings. Our support to AMISOM was critical and instrumental in the reversing of acute famine/drought & human sufferings solely created and engineered by Aideed & supporters of Mohamed Siyad Barre & specifically targeted at the minority & armed groups in Bay & Bakool. Because of our support, countless deaths & human sufferings have been prevented.* Aweys defends & glorifies Aideed not only because of clan reasons but also because the terrorist group he is part of is responsible for the creation another equally devastating famine which is affecting millions of women & children today. In both these famines, it is the " Jowharis" that have stood against their nihilistic endeavors & who are beating them back. It's understandable why he would loath this group & hence why President Ali Mahdi would be classified as "infidel" or gaalo-raac in his twisted & perverted readings of the religion. Prime Minister Ali Mohamed Ghedi was a great leader who not only understand the covert nihilistic plans of Aweys & his terrorist group but took decisive actions to defeat & destroy them at their embryonic stages. Had others listened & supported his government, there's no doubt Somalia would have been a much better place today. But alas, it was never meant to be. Regarding Prime Minister Nur Hassan Hussein & President Sh Sharif Sh Ahmed, both these men were responsible for the evacuation of the Ethiopian forces from Mogadishu & other parts of Somalia. *Aweys hates both of them purely because they managed to remove one of his key populist rhetoric talking points & succeed in isolating him not just from his own clan group & wider Somali population but even from his own family. Standing up to evil men & foiling their malicious plans takes much courage & guts. Not everyone has what it takes, trust me. If it was simple, the defining political goal of your clan group today would not have been a mismanaged & confused fight against Ethiopian colonization!

The Great & unforgettable Gaariye. A timeless poet & social commentator.

The Zack;756528 wrote: He pretty much said the truth on everything in that speech. He said Puntlanders and Jowharis were supporting the Xabashi invasion in 2006, the **** (he called them the Zaaniyah people lol) are now all of the sudden supporting the Kenyan aggression. Duqu runtuu sheegayaa, it is an unfortunate truth. Asagu awr ku kacsi bey ka tahay and he has 0 sincerity but he said the truth. The "Jowharis" have a long & proud history of fighting against colonization. The first colonialist to ever die in Somalia was killed by the "Jowharis" at Warshiekh. The Lafole Massacre of the Italians in 1896 which resulted in the death of Antonio Cecchi-the father of Italian Imperialism came close to evicting Italy from all of Somalia. They are also the same group that gave birth to 3 of the 13 founding fathers of the SYL & the group that not only fathered celebrated nationalists like the Father of the Somali Republic President Aden Abdulle Osman & the Father of the Somali Military Gen Daud Abdulle Hirsi among others but who also host the entire spectrum of the Somali people & State in their home-Mogadishu. There's no way anyone is going to accept your silly characterization of such a clan as "gaalo-raac" Rest Assured, yours are in no position to call out anyone for treason* Aweys is driven by clan ambitions and his hatred for President Ali Mahdi Mohamed while praising Aideed shows the gutter origins of his pronouncements

The Zack;756437 wrote: He raised good points though, haddii runta la sheegayo. Mind sharing with us what those "good points" are?

I don't think the PM is directly responsible for this great shame. There are individuals in his office that engage in criminal & immoral behavior & the President asked him to ensure these sorts of things don't happen again. The PM's Chief of Staff is a maniac& he is going to cost the Prime Minister his seat eventually.

Al Shabab is on the run & Aweys is spoiling the clan dynamics in Somalia so that in the event of Al Shabab collapse he can go back to his people as a clan leader. Desperate times call for desperate measures, after-all.

For those of us that appreciated the clan ambitions that drive Al Shabab's *war, this could not have come at a better time. Hopefully, this provides the final impetus necessary for the annihilation of these religious warlords from Haradheere to the Shabelle Valley & elsewhere in Somalia. http://warqaad.com/codka-xasan-daahir-aweys/

The Biggest culprit was the Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister. He allocated many of the seats to folks from his clan background and it is one of the things the President criticized the PM privately soon after he came back from Turkey. Sharif was asked to make the final decision whether those kids would be allowed to stay in Turkey and start from scratch or send them back to Somalia and send another more qualified batch. He chose the later. Another issue was in relation to the payment of the Government troops.For the first time in many months, the Government Troops haven't been paid on time and their morale is said to be on the low. Both these issues are tied to the PM's Chief of Staff and as I understand the PM promised to rectify both issues and deal with his Chief of Staff. I suspect if a feud arises between the PM & the President, it will be eventually be epicentered around the PM's Chief of Staff.

Good to hear. They both need to leave Mogadishu for a while. Spend more time with their family & all.

Originally posted by Red Sea: Masha Allah. We need more. Buy a Tupac CD and a plane ticket to Somalia and you won't need them

The World's Duty to Somalia By Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah Monday, July 20, 2009 NAIROBI -- When violence broke out in Somalia's battered capital this summer, cynics called it "business as usual." Once again, they claimed that the warring Somalis were embroiled in an incomprehensible clan struggle and that the international community should stay away and let them get on with it. I could not disagree more. We are at a critical juncture here, and the international community must fully engage. This is not a classic civil war but an externally funded attempt to overthrow a legitimate, recognized government. President Sharif Sheikh Ahmed was elected by a parliament specially expanded to include opposition members who wanted to be involved in the U.N.-brokered peace process. Ahmed, who ran Mogadishu in 2006 under the Islamic Courts Union, has attended the U.N. Security Council as well as summits of the African Union and League of Arab States. In contrast, those who attacked Mogadishu in May are extremists with no common agenda except to seize power by force. They include individuals on the U.N. Security Council's list of al-Qaeda and Taliban members and a few hundred experienced fighters from other areas of Africa, as well as Arabs and Asians. While the world focuses elsewhere, groups of foreign extremists are trying to take control of a strategically placed country. Somalia has the longest coastline in Africa and borders international maritime routes as well as regional powers Kenya and Ethiopia. Somalis and others need to ask whether these foreign fighters are working to provide a better administration, peace and employment -- or are using Somalia to further their agenda of spreading international violence. Such brazen threats to Somalia's legitimate government should be a concern. In April, the U.N. Security Council condemned such coups; the African Union made similar pronouncements at its 1999 and 2000 summits, and many nations have spoken out against the recent military takeover in Honduras. The regional Intergovernmental Authority on Development has taken the lead in supporting the Ahmed government, and the United States, France and Norway are among the countries that have condemned the attempted coup. Yet the credibility of the United Nations and others is threatened if they stand by and allow such a takeover in Somalia. When I visited Ahmed recently, I saw what a tremendous effort his government is making. Officials are organizing an effective administration that is working for the people. But how can they defend against determined suicide bombers such as those who killed the extremely able internal security minister and dozens of innocent civilians in May? Their opponents keep changing their "justifications" for the continued violence. For example, one group had maintained that its sole objective was to force Ethiopian troops out of Somalia. Those troops left early this year, yet these Somalis are still killing their own people, creating a renewed cycle of suffering, displacement and violence. How can the international community help? U.S. Rep. Donald Payne has noted that "a strong government is key to bringing peace to Somalia . . . and willful negligence is no longer an option." An April summit in Brussels raised millions in pledges for Somalia's security forces, but that money will take time to materialize. The African Union has sent peacekeeping troops who need better equipment, improved living conditions and logistical support. Countries that can provide this aid directly should do so right away. Others can at least provide assistance to the suffering population. The U.N. Security Council has been clear that it will act against those attempting to disrupt the peace process and create anarchy. A list is being compiled for the U.N. sanctions committee of those who may find their assets frozen and face a travel ban. It is not only ideologues. A few businessmen have profited hugely from the continuing conflict. Those who support the extremists, whether out of conviction or in pursuit of profit, may be hit in their wallets. Some are working in Kenya, Congo and South Sudan, but they are known. Likewise, those extremist leaders who have sent their families abroad while they destroy innocent lives here should understand that these family members will no longer be welcome. Unfortunately, analysts who have been sounding the death knell for the Somali government over the years are adding to the crisis. Many "experts" trade rumors, often spread by Somalis comfortably ensconced in Nairobi hotels, suggesting that this is the "final assault." Such reports terrify the Somali population and boost the extremists. The government in Mogadishu continues to stress its commitment to the peace process -- open to all Somalis willing to promote the return of peace and stability to their country. It is widely accepted that peace in one of the continent's longest-running conflicts will require continued dialogue, as provided for in last summer's U.N.-brokered Djibouti Peace Agreement. The situation in Somalia should concern the international community. With help, this conflict can be ended as other seemingly endless internal wars have been brought to a close. If the Somali government manages to hold on, it will not solve all its problems instantly; there will still be piracy, kidnapping and targeted killings. But the international community will have a credible partner in Mogadishu, committed to peace and dialogue. The writer is the U.N. special representative for Somalia. http://www.washingto npost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2009/07 /19/AR2009071901759. html

From what I am hearing, 2 other guys have defected and following initial investigation, one of the men who sent them to Somalia has been apprehended.

Ururka Xisbul Islaam oo adkeeyay ammaanka la heystayaasha reer Faransa iyo ciidamada xarakada Al-Shabaab oo laga cabsi qabo inay halkaasi weerar ku qaadaan Warar lagu kalsoon yahay oo aanu ka soo xiganay ilo wareedyo ku dhow Xisbul Islaam ayaa sheegaya inuu soo ifbaxayo khilaaf u dhaxeeya Al-Shabaab iyo Xisbul Islaam, kaasi oo ku saabsan la heystayaasha u dhashay dalka Faransiiska ee laga afduubtay Hotelka Saxafi maalinimadii shalay. Khilaafkan ayaa soo ifbaxay kaddib markii shalay gelinkii dambe xarakada Al-Shabaab ay weerar ku qaadeen halka lagu heysto labada sarkaal ee la afduubtay oo ka tirsan xaafadda African Village, hase yeeshee halkaasi wax shaqaaqo ah kama dhicin, bacdamaa ay goobta joogeen ciidamo kale oo ka tirsan ururka Xisbul Islaam. Isku dhaca kooxaha Xisbul Islaam iyo Al-Shabaab ayaa yimid markii ururka Xisbul Islaam ay ku wareejiyeen afduubayaasha labada nin ee Faransiiska u dhashay, waxayna warar hoose sheegayaan in arrintaasi ay ku kaliftay kooxaha afduubayaasha ah hanjabaado kaga yimid dhinaca xarakada Al-Shabaab. Dhinaca kale ururka Xisbul Islaam ee la wareegay ammaanka saraakiisha ajnabiga ah ayaa u xaafad ku dhow xaruntii Xisbiga, iyadoona halkaasi ay ilaalo ka hayaan ciidamo iyo tikniko fara badan. Wararku waxay intaasi ku darayaan in dowladda KMG ah ay dhinaceeda ka waddo dadaalo lagu sii deynayo saraakiisha reer Faransa ee afduubka lagu heysto, waxaana aad u yar hamigii ay dowladdu ka qabtay inay ku sii deyso, bacdamaa kooxaha mucaaradka ahi ayba isku heystaan arrimaha labada sarkaal. By Xoghaye Muqdisho Somaliweyn Media Center “SMC” http://www.somaliwey n.org/pages/news/Jul y_09/15July27.html

The following is an essay posted on Facebook by Mohamoud Hassan, one of a group of Minneapolis men who left for Somalia to join in a militant Islamic movement last November. When you Really Really Think About It Our country has been without a government for 17 years and every attempt to create one has ended in failure. Today the Somali people for the first time in many years have an opportunity of seeing the return of a functioning government that has the support of the international community. The attention of the world is focused on our country again, our people are tired of the sad state that we are in and the political leaders in the country now accept the need for a solution. Simply put, all the right circumstances are in place or as one might say the stars are aligned for peace in Somalia. Realizing this, why should we allow for some people to squander this opportunity for us again? Is it fair for a nation of 10 million people to be held hostage by a handful of thugs driven by selfish interests? The reality is that those who oppose the Transitional Federal Government have no alternative to offer. They are quite content to see Somalia in the same state of chaos and anarchy that it has been in for the last 17 years. Yes, they may try to present themselves as the saviors of Somalia but in reality they are the destroyers of our nation. Under various disguises and multiple aliases they oppose the return of normality and sense of order to our country. They want to keep us in a state of nature where those who are strong get their way at the expense of those who are weak. These folks who claim to be a religious movement one day, a nationalist movement the other or tribal militias when their back is against the wall are only interested in one thing: To keep Somalia in the same state of hopelessness for as long as possible. They fight because in a state of hopelessness they are happy, in the anarchy they are strong and in the poverty of the masses they have plenty. The truth is they have nothing in common with the majority of peace loving Somalis who can not wait to see the return of a stable government. They have denied our nation peace, violated the dignity and honour of our people and turned our country into a safe haven for international outlaws. After all this, they have the nerve to present themselves as the saviors of Somalia. Do they really believe that we are fooled by their trickery and deception? “The Ethiopian Invasion” They claim that they are against the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) because it is a puppet of Ethiopia. It is no secret that the TFG is closely aligned with Ethiopia and receives a great deal of support from Addis Ababa. However, Ethiopia did not invade Somalia; instead it came in at the request of the TFG. As the sole legitimate authority of the country the TFG has the right to exercise a foreign and security policy that it sees fit. It decides the countries that Somalia will have relations with and those that it will not. One does not have to agree with every decision that a government makes and no one should certainly attempt to overthrow the legitimate authority in a country because one disagrees with its policies. However, these things are difficult to understand for people who reject the whole concept of a government let alone its policies. The reality is that the Ethiopian argument is a cover for their real motive which is to oppose the return of a government that will establish the rule of law and end the anarchy that currently exists. If it is Ethiopia they oppose then why was the Transitional National Government reduced to being locked down in one of the local hotels in Mogadishu? Would they argue that Abdiqasim Salad Hassan and Ali Khalif Galaydh were puppets of Ethiopia? The truth is that there is no difference between the TNG, TFG and any other government in their eyes because any established authority would make these gangsters illegitimate. These are people who have greatly benefited from the chaos of the last 17 years by establishing themselves at the top of an anarchic society and they will oppose anything that threatens their status. They have no remorse in sacrificing the lives of innocent people in order to continue their strangulation of our country. Ever hear some of the demands being made by these folks? It is simply pathetic. Moreover, if they oppose foreign troops then why do they continue to create a situation that makes it necessary for the country to need outside intervention? Why did they not volunteer to become the troops that their government needs? Why did they not disarm and welcome the TFG? Instead they twice attempted to assassinate the Prime Minister and sent suicide bombers to Baidoa in an attempt to eliminate the President just to show their opposition to the legitimate authority of the country. They also began assassinating anyone who wanted to see the return of a government and the rule of law. These folks have to realize that the Somali nation will not be a hostage to them any longer. They should understand that Somalia is determined to move forward from this sad period in its history. Working against the wave of hope that is spreading across our country is irrational. Furthermore, arguing that we need to “liberate” our country from Ethiopia misses the fact that our nation first needs to be freed from the forces of darkness that have held it hostage for 17 years. Ever wonder why the nationalist fervor is limited to a few neighborhoods in Mogadishu but not throughout the rest of the country? How interesting! Advice to the anti-government forces Your cause is unjust no matter how much religious/nationalis t rhetoric you use to portray otherwise. Moreover, you do not have the support of the international community which fully supports the TFG. Despite the cries of invasion and massacre, no country has stepped forward to seriously challenge the TFG and its allies. On the contrary, a United Nations resolution (Resolution 1744) authorized African Union intervention in Somalia. Eritrea, a state sponsor of terrorism is the only country which supports your cause and only because it sees you as a tool in its wider war against Ethiopia. Most of all however, you do not have the support of the Somali people. You do not even have the support of the majority of the neighborhoods in Mogadishu yet you claim to be a mass movement which speaks for all the Somali people. You are not waging an insurgency with grassroots support despite all the comical comparisons to Vietnam and Iraq that you and your supporters make. An insurgency with no mass internal support and a formidable external backer is not much of an insurgency but rather a hopeless struggle. Therefore, I would advise you to stop sending young Somali boys on suicide missions against well armed and well trained troops. Most of your strength was destroyed when this conflict began which makes one wonder what you can achieve now with your hopeless and desperate tactics which only results in the suffering of innocent civilians. It is clear that you have no military option to back your flawed political objectives. Moreover, you have to realize that Ethiopia is not going to cut and run like the US as it is not a Western democracy where its leader has to worry about public opinion affecting the next election like an American President. Burning corpses and dragging dead soldiers on streets only gives ammunition to the government and its allies while exposing you as savages. Furthermore, the international community has fully committed itself to seeing the return of a functioning government to Somalia no matter how hard you try to prevent it. Most significantly however, the Somali people are now seeing you as nothing more than an obstacle to the peace that our country longs for. The question is how long will it take for you to realize the truth and accept these undeniable facts? What is the Alternative? People should ask themselves what would become of our country if we were to lose this chance. Is there really a viable alternative to the Transitional Federal Government? Our country has lost many historic opportunities before and I believe we should not repeat those mistakes again. The TFG is the only and all inclusive option which represents all Somalis, a characteristic no other movement can claim. It is also the only authority that can obtain the support of the international community that our country desperately needs. It is time to stop sticking our heads in the sand and blindly opposing something without understanding the consequences. Our nation is waiting to wake up from this terrible nightmare that has been haunting us for far too long. After 13 or 14 peace conferences, a major UN intervention and a couple of previous governments when is enough really enough? The folks who are opposing the Transitional Federal Government are not motivated by principles or patriotism. They are only interested in continuing the bililiqo, piracy, poverty and backwardness that has become the norm in our country. The reality is if we squander this chance it will be at our peril. It would also be a shame if we let these selfish thugs cost us this historic opportunity. http://www.nytimes.c om/2009/07/12/us/12s omalis-essay.html

Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed: It would be callous to say of a dead man that he got what he deserved but lets not forget that this man went halfway around the world to kill, even worse hack people to death as his group has done in baydhaba or to perpetuate a mentality to accounts for hundreds of dead Somalis. At the end of the day, in death he is beyond our judgement and will have meet his maker. Lastly, am sick of this habit of Somali media and certain factions to to exhibit gruesome pictures of dead people. Very well said. Those who live by the gun, in the end, inevitably die by the gun. Such a tragedy that this kid was brainwashed to leave his home and fight a foreigner's war.

How long it took Sh Hassan Dahir Aweys to realize that it is only through diplomacy and talks that one can solve the Somali quandary? Even though I am bitterly opposed and disappointed in the failure that Sh Hassan Dahir has become, I say for the sake of peace, we have to give peace a chance.

Originally posted by me: Meiji, As we can agree there is a war going on at the time and there are intense battles. The aid agencies are not capable of delivering aid to those that need it the most due to the circumstances. The machinery and material are kept in stores, while the people are suffering. The opposition forces have procured these materials in order to help the civilians and the war effort. It would have been better if the aid agencies could continue their work, however the circumstances do not permit them and because of that the opposition forces who are responsible for the civilians living in the areas under their control are forced to take drastic actions in order to safe lives. Bundling the resources of the community for the war effort is one of those measures. The TFG bandits on the other hand are in total disarray and they are attacking civilians and exhorting them for personal gain. The TFG bandits are criminals operating under the licence of the Sharif Government. They should be stopped from harming the civilian population. No-one denies that the government forces are capable of committing lootings and other criminal acts, but what about the oh so holy Al Shabab who loot not just aid offices but civilian homes, kidnapping young children and conscripting them to fight their dirty war whilst their leaders like Godone and Abu Mansur relax and watch the battle from the comforts of Kismayo and Baidoba? “looting” is not measured by Al Shabab propagandist principles or by your personal standards. TFG forces looting civilians is beside the point. As for caring about the suffering people, we haven’t seen a single word from you condemning Al Shabab’s lootings and injustices against civilians

Originally posted by me: Meiji, There is a difference between procuring material for the war effort and robbing civilians and exhorting small businesses. I believe that you can see the difference between the two. The opposition forces have procured idle machinery and material for the war effort. The opposition has not targeted civilians, but is using the material to help the civilians that are now in the areas under their control. The TFG forces on the other hand are clearly exhorting small businesses and robbing civilians. The TFG forces are ill disciplined thugs. Their officers are engaged in get quick rich schemes. The rumor has it that these officers want to use the money they exhort from the civilians to flee the country. The opposition is bundling the resources of the community for the war effort, while the TFG bandits are clearly engaged in criminal acts. I hope that you can see the difference between the two. For all the pretence of supposedly caring about the plight of the Somali people, this kind of shameful endorsement of Al Shabab’s blatant looting of aid meant for the suffering people comes as no surprise. Al Shabab’s history of adding to the pain and prolonging of the agonized people is well known. Besides, who defines what constitutes as “looting” and “procuring materials for the war effort?” Your ignorance is really touching. Al Shabab has contributed more to the needless wars and conflicts in Somalia that a case can be made that their entire survival depends on the continuation of Somali mess, hence their perpetual threats to “bring down the tall buildings of Nairobi.” The very idea that Al Shabab is “procuring materials for the war effort” is outrageous, but it is not surprising that you said it.

Originally posted by me: We have al seen how the opposition forces are bringing criminals to court. Plenty of threads have been started here on SOL about that. Now we see how the TFG bandits are robbing civilians in the few neighborhoods they still control. The difference between the two sides is clear. The opposition forces have a zero tolerance policy in place, whereas the TFG minister’s own guards are robbing civilians. This is blatantly false. There are documented cases of Al Shabab and Hizb-ul-Islam thugs looting aid agencies throughout South Somalia and ransacking hospitals and taking away medicine meant for the suffering people injured by their wars. In Mogadishu, there are clear cases of wide-spread looting of abandoned homes and businesses by these anarchists. But of course, you would deny it because to you Al Shabab and their partners in anarchy are holy men who can’t do no evil