Recovering-Romantics
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Posts posted by Recovering-Romantics
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Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiy aar:Copy and paste the pictures' links. Right-click them and copy and paste into browser.It works perfect now, for some strange reason. Thanks
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Originally posted by Peace Action:RR are you serious? Blaming A/Y and his clan for the problem in Mogadishu is insane. Mogadishu has been on fire for 20 years and who will take the responsability for making the capital of Somalia a hell hole?No-one is blaming Abdullahi Yusuf's clan for the mess in Mogadishu. Abdullahi Yusuf however invested in the chaos in Mogadishu.
The problem in Mogadishu can't be blamed on one single person. Every-one from the former Siyad Barre regime to the current pseudo-religious warlords and the psychology of our people has played a role.
Emperor
You should save yourself the energy.
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Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiy aar:Finally a Soomaali president with a presidential-looking office. Protocols qof yaqaano ayaa u design gareeye.Very neat and uncluttered presidential office. I like it.
I can't see the picture :confused:
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Originally posted by General Duke:
quote:
waxaan waa imaginary weeyaan, Markaad Kenya galaysid oo Soomaaliya ka soo baxaysid iyo markaad Kenya ka baxaysid oo Soomaaliya galaysid waa in aad ogsoon tahay calaamadda,xarriiqada meesha ay marayso, waayo hadda dawlad rasmi ah ayaan is tusaynaa in ay Soomaaliya ka dhalatay. Hawl galkeena wuu soo bixi doona. Laakiin xuduudaha labada dhinac maadama aysan talis ka jirin labada dhinacba, hadda war meeshii intee ahayd aan xarriiqno oo waddo yar aanu marino oo markaad ka baxaysid oo dhanka kale galaysid ilaa dadka ku nool labada dhinac waa dad isku beel ah, taas way dhacdaa adduunkoo dhan wax dhib ah oo aan u arko ma laha, dabcan wax kale oo aan aniga ogayn oo adinka ogtihiin mooyee.The issue the Speaker is talking about is the MOU. You ahve been sold a lie old boy and Somalia is worse for it.
Kenya would like to clear up the "imaginary" border as he states:mad:You know the MOU is readily available online. It would help your argument and seal this discussion. Just post it and tell us where it says Somalia will sell its waters, instead of parroting around. -
Originally posted by General Duke:^^^quote: Meelkasta ayey taalaa UN-ka, latitude-kii iyo longitude-kii iyo bearing-kii oo dhan ayaa la hayaa (Dhigo, Lool iyo Xagasha ama jihada uu ku socdo xadku). Waa in sidaas loo xaqiijyo uun weeyaana, taasna waa dawladaha wax markastaba dhaca.Laakiin hadda wax cusub ma aha. Maadaama Soomaaliya aysan 18-sano dawlad ka jirin waxaa loo baahan yahay in meeshii xuduudku ahaa ee u horeysey hadda in la is tuso ayaa loo baahan yahay.You are talking about one thing Mr Farax the speaker is talking about another, he is saying we need to make the boundary clear. For some reason people forgot about the border because as he states above Somalia has had no government for 18 years and they needed to clear the boundries.You adeer are quoting some international agreemnt that seem to have little baring on the issue at handVOA interview:The issue we are discussing about is the Somali-Kenyan MOU. So, it is you who is talking about something else.As I said, can you post the original document of the MOU and tell us where Somalia sells its seas to Kenya?
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You only have to read Emperor's posts to know where they are coming from
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Originally posted by General Duke:
RR Maybe you are more insightful on this deal in comparison to the sell out Somali ooops Kenyan deputy speaker.
quote:
Faarax Macallin, Guddoomiye Kuxigeenka Baarlamaanka Kenya, oo Shaaca Ka Qaaday in Heshiiska Dhexmaray Kenya iyo Soomaaliya La Saxiixay Dhawr Toddobaad Ka Hor..."...haddii aad tagtid Archive-ka ama Libreeriga Congress-ka Maraykanka waad heleysaa EXACTLY BEARING-ka (jihada xadku u socdo) oo ilaa inta uu qalin gaaro ku tusaysa, waa wax record-kii meesha jiro (Diiwaan). Marka wax la isku deyi karo in ducfiga Soomaali lagaga faa'iidaystaa ma aha, ninkii isku dayana khasaaro ayaa ka imanaysa."Faarax Macallin..RR: Nothing to do with your seabed and extra land claims. This is about Somalia's sea itself and the boundry we have with Kenya. :rolleyes:Would you be kind enough to post the original Memorandum of Understanding, and tell us where it says Somalia will give up its land to Kenya? -
Originally posted by General Duke:
RR Maybe you are more insightful on this deal in comparison to the sell out Somali ooops Kenyan deputy speaker.
quote:
Faarax Macallin, Guddoomiye Kuxigeenka Baarlamaanka Kenya, oo Shaaca Ka Qaaday in Heshiiska Dhexmaray Kenya iyo Soomaaliya La Saxiixay Dhawr Toddobaad Ka Hor..."...haddii aad tagtid Archive-ka ama Libreeriga Congress-ka Maraykanka waad heleysaa EXACTLY BEARING-ka (jihada xadku u socdo) oo ilaa inta uu qalin gaaro ku tusaysa, waa wax record-kii meesha jiro (Diiwaan). Marka wax la isku deyi karo in ducfiga Soomaali lagaga faa'iidaystaa ma aha, ninkii isku dayana khasaaro ayaa ka imanaysa."Faarax Macallin..RR: Nothing to do with your seabed and extra land claims. This is about Somalia's sea itself and the boundry we have with Kenya. :rolleyes:Kenya, Somalia sign maritime boundary agreementThe Kenyan and Somali governments on Friday signed a memorandum of understanding on their maritime boundary.
The agreement will facilitate the presentation of Kenya's submissions to the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf by May as required under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
According to the provisions of UNCLOS, coastal states intending to delineate the outer limits of their continental shelf beyond 200 nautical miles are required to submit particulars of such limits with supporting scientific and technical data to CLCS.
The preparation of Kenya's claim for submission requires the cooperation of its neighbors Tanzania and Somalia.
This is because, UNCLOS provides that states that have adjacent coastlines to each other need to conclude agreements on the delimitation of their maritime boundaries for their Territorial Sea, Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelves by means of an agreement in order to achieve an equitable solution.
Kenya Foreign Affairs Minister Moses Wetangula signed the agreement with Somalia Prime Minister Omar Abdirashid Ali Shermake.
Wetangula said the preparation of Kenya's claim for submission requires the cooperation of its neighbors, Tanzania and Somalia.
"This is because, the convention provides that states that have adjacent coastlines to each other need to conclude agreements on the delimitation of their maritime boundaries for their territorial sea, exclusive economic zone and continental shelves by means of an agreement in order to achieve an equitable solution", he said.
Wetangula said the government has negotiated the maritime agreement with the Transitional Federal Government of Somalia.
The minister said the government is also in the process of concluding a similar agreement with the Tanzanian government.
http://en.ce.cn/Worl d/Africa/200904/04/t 20090404_18714518.sh tml
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Originally posted by General Duke:^^^He is confused, he is not expert yet can tell the future gains for Somalia. Adeer the man is trying to defend Shiekh Hotel & Co for the biggest blunder in modern Somali history.If there is anyone that is confused in this discussion is you who parrots around one line without taking the time to think of how ridiculous they sound.
It is not clear how much territory Somalia will gain, because that decision belongs to the governing body of the International Laws of the Sea. I am not a prophet that can predict what will happen tomorrow.
Somalia's claim is projected to be additional 350 nautical miles and we have to wait and see if they get that actual territory.
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Originally posted by Emperor:^Car wax kale hakuula yimaado other than his opinion iyo inuu dadka caayo mooyee, Adeer waqtiga ha isaga dhumin kanoo kale...Bro, stop your useless back and forth rants without any purpose. Your oneliners are getting boring.
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Originally posted by General Duke:
Adeer you don’t make sense at all,you are not an expert but you know that Somalia will gain 350 nautical miles, for all I know Somalia has lost much sea area in the south. Thus this deal smells like the Arusha one which we gained nothing and lost all of NFD.The title stays and until proven innocent one can not trust the likes of Sharif Sakin and the clowns holed up in the Villa.The only one not making sense here is you, I am afraid to say. You are cutely hugging on a claim that is unsubstantiated and has no rational basis to score a political point.
The documents that I have posted make a mincemeat out of your claims. Unless, you can tell me on what grounds you base your arguments, I can't take you serious.
The Arusha deal signed by PM AbdiRashid Sharmarke AUN and I agree it was not a good one. BUT comparing it to a law that governs all the countries in the world with maritime territory, is simply foolish.
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You were an ardent supporter of the previous regime that was also holed in Villa Somalia. Won't you be charitable enough to extend your support
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Originally posted by General Duke:RR:Adeer as Somali it does bother me when dodgy deals are made behind closed doors, as a student of History one understands that the Arusha agreement was not a mutually beneficial deal between two nations. We always lose out because of idiotic leaders.Also don’t contradict yourself, you ay you are not anexpertyet you are confident and know that Somalia will gain additional terrirory and I quote" least territory as much as 350 nautical miles “, either you are in the know or you are bullshiting just to sound good and make these clowns who could not defend a mere city seem enlightened. I believe you dont have a clue what’s going on adeer.So far this deal has been scrutinized and many Somali’s including the few true experts in the Diaspora agrees it was unnecessary and detrimental to Somalia’s sovereignty. However be clear that I would rather everyone is wrong here than lose an inch of land for our children’s future like we lost the NFD to Kenya, and that agreement is not being renewed like this one if it goes through.There is no contradiction here. I provided you with the necessary documents to support my arguments. I would hope you tell us on what grounds you cry foul.
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Since we now agree that the land in contention is what lies BEYOND Somalia's EEZ, would you be kind enough to change your thread title
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Because of the current mayor of Mogadishu, this is possible
The National Arch in Mogadishu
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Any positive development is good development! Why should people wait for peace to come before developing hospitals, roads and such. Resilience, and hope in the face of great challenges is what defines Mogadishu and what has enabled it to survive and grow despite 18 years of war and anarchy.
http://www.soomaalin ews.com/view_content s.php?articleid=1303 6
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Originally posted by General Duke:RR: Brother one ascertain a few things first of all how much sovereignty does one secede and also did Somalia’s government have to put this request in when it was not prepared at this time, this is not conspiracy adeer, a weak government that controls a small area should not sign agreements with Neighbors who’s last agreement we signed with gave away the NFD. Thus all the info you have provided makes it look like a dream come true but one is not buying this and also we should reject it until things are made clearer.Kenya & Norway seemed to have a deep vested interest in getting this signed, maybe if we ignored it we would have been in a better position in two decades to exploit that area.Bro, no-one is asking you buy anything nor is anyone waiting for your approval. This opportunity comes once every 20 years and this government would be wrong to let a golden opportunity like this pass without doing anything about it. The area in question is believed to be home to oil, gas and other natural resources. To expect this government to not claim it, is simply put, ignorant.
Somalia will gain additional maritime territory as much as 350 nautical miles and this should be what matters. Countries sign agreements based on mutual interest.
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Originally posted by General Duke:RR: First of all you did not answer any of the questions posed.If we Somalia is going for additional sea area outside of its exclusive zone, that is owned by the UN and no sovereign nation whydid we sign an agreement with Kenya ?Brother, no one on Earth would like to not get extra, but in the real world nothing if given for free specially territories. So again while one thanks you for the effort answer the question.Bro, maybe you are not reading the documents that I have posted in my previous posts. For Somalia to get any additional territory, its neighbors have to verify that they are not going to claim the same territory. Any area that is claimed by 2 or more countries automatically become a contested area and thus no one country can claim it without the approval of its neighbors. The deal signed with Kenya is an agreement of "No Contention." Nothing more.
Of course, nothing is being given "free," that is why this deal is renowned every 20 years.
Other than that, it is basically another case of conspiracy theories. A closer reading of any of the documents I have posted should clear this.
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Originally posted by General Duke:Emperor you made some valid points which need to be answered by the supporters of this deal.RR: The important wording here is“claim additional maritime territory”, now are Somalia & Kenya are claiming or competing for the same territory, separate territories together or are just signing agreements to be part of the 69 nations or 75% of the worlds states that are rushing to claimadditional continental shelf territories.Do explain as you understand it my brother.Emperor is not making any "valid points" rather he is dealing with conspiracy theories grounded in clannish mentality. If Abdullahi Yusuf was the current president, he would be bombarding us with information claiming that Abdullahi Yusuf has rescued the Somali waters and other stories.
The deal is for "additional maritime territory." Any land that lies beyond Somalia's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) is technically owned by the UN and is called the International Waters and subject to the International Laws of the Sea. For Somalia to claim any additional maritime territory, its neighbors have to agree to it and must be consequently approved by the governing body of the International Law of the Sea.
Minus the little conspiracy theories and attempts of using this deal as a way of tarnishing the names of political enemies, there is nothing really that remotely supports the claims being made.
When it is all said and done, Somalia will end up with MORE maritime territory than it previously had. It beats me why some-one would want to reverse this.
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I hope that this will make clear that the territory in question is not Somalia's Exclusive Economic Zone BUT rather the piece of territory that lies BEYOND!
69 nations ask UN to weigh claims on ocean limits
With the bounty of the high seas at stake, 69 nations met a U.N. deadline Wednesday for submitting claims on how to define the outer limits of their continental shelfs.
Experts anticipated fewer claims.
"There are about 65 who could be entitled," said Hariharan Pakshi Rajan, who heads the U.N.'s Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf. "There is no official U.N. list on this. This is just an estimate."
The deadline was for submissions from all countries that signed the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea to define the dimensions of their claimed continental shelfs _ a group that notably excludes the United States.
In the U.S., Senate opponents say the Law of the Sea requires the country to surrender important sovereignty rights. But the administration of President Barack Obama has indicated it wants to sign the treaty.
Beyond the 200 nautical mile zone that extends from every country's coastline, the open ocean is subject to the Law of the Sea. On May 1, Switzerland became the latest and 158th nation to ratify it.
The commission's job is to examine and verify the scientific and technical data that each nation submits. That is used to determine whether a nation can lay claim to areas of the continental shelfs extending beyond the 200-mile zone.
Some such areas are hotly disputed. The Philippine president signed a law in March, for example, affirming sovereignty over islands also claimed by China and Vietnam, including ones believed to be rich in oil, gas and fish in the South China Sea.
Despite the stakes, Rajan said he would be "very surprised" if more nations submit claims on the continental shelfs.
But the commission doesn't act as a judge in border disputes, he said. The commission's role among nations, he said, is only to help determine "sovereign rights for the purposes of exploring and exploiting its resources."
http://www.etaiwanne ws.com/etn/news_cont ent.php?id=948298&la ng=eng_news
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UNITED NATIONS 13 May 2009 Nations race to lodge seabed claims before deadline
The deadline for countries to submit territorial claims to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf is 13 May 2009. Oil and mineral treasure lies under the sea, so there there is a rush to divvy up the seabed before the deadline. As of Apr 2009, 21 submissions from coastal countries had been filed, and as many as 50 could file before the deadline. Russia claims the Arctic. The other Arctic states -- Canada, the United States, Norway and Denmark -- oppose the claim. The issue could push Washington to ratify the Treaty.
Under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), countries can claim control of the seabed beyond the traditional 200-mile limit if they can prove the ocean floor is connected to their continental shelf. Submissions must be based upon sound technical data and meet requirements prescribed within Article 76 of UNCLOS (1982). States can file joint claims, after pre-agreed territorial shares with their partners, or individual claims.
Moscow argues that the Lomonosov Ridge, an undersea mountain range that begins on land in Russia, reaches to the North Pole -- and therefore that the North Pole belongs to Moscow. It capped the argument with a controversial dive to the ocean floor that planted a rust proof Russian flag below the Pole. Canada and Denmark claim parts of the Lomonosov ridge.
The Philippines wants its zone extended to include the resource-rich Kalayaan Island Group, which includes some of the Spratley Islands in the South China Sea. Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and China have long-standing overlapping claims in the area.
France wants territory that includes the Bay of Biscay between France and Spain and the Celtic Sea, which France shares with Ireland and Great Britain. It also wants French Guyana, a host of African islands, the Kerguelen Islands near Antarctica and the Crozet Islands, which lie hundreds of miles south of Madagascar.
For the present, the Antarctic is out of bounds for exploiting its mineral resources because of the 1959 Antarctic Treaty. The seabed around the the Antarctic is a different issue. New Zealand is keeping its options open to match British plans to claim sovereign rights over a vast area of the seabed off Antarctica. Australia – which claims 42 per cent of the Antarctic – included data on the seabed off its Antarctic territory in its own UNCLOS claim.
Britain and Chile claim parts of the Antarctic. London also has designs on the waters around the Falklands and parts of the Bay of Biscay.
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Originally posted by Emperor:Some people never make sense, if this was not true and only a rumour, or the terriroty didn't even belong to Somalia or it was under the UN then we wouldn't have had any signed agreement between Somalia and Kenya...Mr. Shakur along with Shariif Sakiin signed an agreement with the foreign minister of Kenya infront of the international media, what was that? I guess they were selling Ina'ade's drug farm in Afgoi...Adeer because of your clanish attitude and defensive nature for Sheikh hotel, now you begin to sound weary and nervious starting to doubt or even deny the Somali sea... don't you know there are other ways you can defend Sheikh hotel than 'Inkiraad' of parts of the Somali country...Bro, a little education will take you a long way!
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Originally posted by General Duke:RR:quote:
The agreement will facilitate the presentation of Kenya's submissions to the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf by May as required under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).The Somali prime minister said the agreement was necessary forthe preparation of Somalia's claim for the extension of Somalia continental shelfas the cooperation between neighbors is a pre- requite for the submission of the war-torn country's claim." (CRIEnglish.com 8. April 2009."Adeer as an expert can you explain to us all what the claim pertains to , also why did we sign an agreement with Kenya?Why not just forward our info and "claim" to the UN.Also when did nations renew their sea territory?Also can you touch on the involvement of the nation of Norway, oil and gas and other issues?ThanksBro, I am not an expert on anything. I am simply going by what I have read in the news and the information available to us.To answer your question.
Why did Somalia sign a "deal" with Kenya and not directly to the UN. The answer is simple. For Somalia to claim additional maritime territory, it must have the backing of its neighbors that share maritime boundaries with it in the form of "no contention." It will have to sign such a deal with Yemen, Djibouti, and Kenya and must be done so by end of May 2009.
75% of the countries with maritime boundaries can qualify to extend their claims on the International Waters with the consent of their neighbors, for Somalia to acquire more land, Kenya has to support and vice versa. The last such deal was signed in 1989 by the then regime and is renewable every 20 years. Hence, the decision of this government to enter into this agreement now.
Once the deadline passes, you can only claim your ACTUAL maritime boundary and have no claim to anything that lies beyond.
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I hope that Sh " Red Fox," goes to this conference and strikes a deal with this government. Even doing so, might not better our chances of returning from years of anarchy since he has no control of the anarchist group Al Shabab.
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Originally posted by General Duke:^^^lool. Everyone is wrong and you are correct. Please this deal united various opposing groups in a campaign to stop it. Somalia has no dispute with Kenya other than NFD.Anyhow if the Parliment opposes this they will have the respect of the masses.Any-one who hasn't read the actual documents and what they mean, yet spread rumours around tirelessly, is of course, wrong.
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Originally posted by Che -Guevara:Recovering-Romantics ...Regardless, the government has bigger fish to fry, and shouldn't be settling disputes that needs serious scrutiny.Bro, a very elementary understanding of the "The limits of the continental Shelf" will explain to you why this government had to sign this "deal." "Almost 75% of the nations on earth need to sign continental Shelf Agreement. Why?! Because they've access to sea! And most of The continental shelf occurs in the sea!"
""It happens that 2009 will see the expiry of the term that many countries, including Argentina and the United Kingdom, have in which to make their submissions to the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, an independent entity made up of experts, created by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
The extended continental shelf is an area that stretches outward from the limit of 200 miles from the coast, and can extend as far as 350 miles.
Why must countries make these submissions? For two fundamental reasons. The first is that they will receive confirmation from the Commission regarding the outer limit of their continental shelf.
This will in turn confirm their rights over the natural resources on the seabed or beneath it, on the extended continental platform.
It is also important to contribute to defining the framework of the law of the sea. This will make it possible to establish the areas of seabed that are within the jurisdiction of the coastal states, and those that -on the other hand-constitute the deep ocean bed. The latter is administered by the International Seabed Authority as common world heritage.
The preparation of these submissions is a lengthy and complex task, as it is necessary to demonstrate the physical extent of the continental shelf as an area distinct from the deep ocean bed." (British Position on the Continental Shelf (11/10/07)
Quote from Today's news:
"The agreement will facilitate the presentation of Kenya's submissions to the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf by May as required under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
The Somali prime minister said the agreement was necessary for the preparation of Somalia's claim for the extension of Somalia continental shelf as the cooperation between neighbors is a pre- requite for the submission of the war-torn country's claim." (CRIEnglish.com 8. April 2009."
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