Originally posted by NGONGE: quote:Originally posted by Cara: I must say I'm fighting the urge to point at my chest with both thumbs, grin happily and say "Scumbag atheist, that's me!" I've always wanted to be in showbiz. Heh. Don't be offended when they all start staring at your chest and wonder why there are no scumbag atheists there .....! LOL. I don't think the thought even crosses their minds at that point And Zafir that's just such a stretch.

Why isn't the fact that there was an outbreak of cholera in Mogadishu news, rather than the Somaliland ban on flights?

LOL @ Ngonge. Drat. Oh well, it was only a matter of time I must say I'm fighting the urge to point at my chest with both thumbs, grin happily and say "Scumbag atheist, that's me!" I've always wanted to be in showbiz. Famisha, I'm the moderators will get around to it, it's not fair to accuse them of political bias.

Sakhar, now come on. Sinning is certainly not avoidable, and cannot be contrary to fitrah. Up-bringing has nothing to do with it either. Adam was raised in Eden, attended by angels and personally instructed by Allah. Surely you can't say his up-bringing had any elements of "negative socialization" or "wrong surroundings". Yet he succumbed to the first temptation Satan presented to him. Likewise, consider Adam and Eve's children: their firstborn murdered his brother. There has not been a single case of a human being who has managed to avoid sinning in some way. If sinning were simply a matter of freewill, someone would have managed to make all the right choices at some point, just as a matter of probability. As for whether Ngonge was wrong in stating that some religious prohibitions do not necessarily have eternal self-evident logic, consider the children of Adam and Eve again. Did they not have to commit incest by marrying their own brothers and sisters? Wasn't this a direct command from God in fact? How could something as self-evidently wrong and immoral as incest be commanded by God? If someone where to marry their sibling today, they would be committing a sin. If Adam's daughter refused to marry her brother back then, she'd be committing a sin. Thus Ngonge has a valid point about somethings having to be taken on faith.

I didn't know that "fitrah" meant free of sin. I thought it meant humans where pre-disposed to worship Allah, that's all. Isn't sinning a natural consequence of free will? Are there any humans who can be said to be completely free of sin? If not, then doesn't that mean it's part of human fitrah to sin in some way?

^Interesting. Dave, I admire your dedication and hardwork. If you need brute force, let me know. I've limited myself to making only minor corrections on Wikipedia, not making creative changes.

^If my bed was that big I'd want one too.

It looks fine, and the pictures are on there.

I think people just need to feel in control of their lives somehow. A cashier's job is not precisely the most fulfilling position. Thumping your nose at the establishment in a small way helps people cope. Like those who smoke (or more) in the stockroom, or take an extra minute while on break. Anything to feel like you have some volition.

I used to be one of those people who didn't eat until lunch, even if I woke up early. As long as I had coffee or tea, I was good to go. I started having breakfast the last month or so, and must say it makes a huge difference. The energy boost is just incredible. But now I've taken to not eating lunch

- Edited - Khalaf and Cambarro, maybe I'll write a book and I'll be sure to send you advance copies Alle-Ubaahne, horta adeerkaa muxuu qabaa? Sidee buu ku gaarey da'deyda without a wife? [ March 20, 2007, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Legend of Zu ]

Another Catherine Tate. And my idol Ricky Gervais . Sort of.

LOL. I don't believe it's real.

^Isn't that a bit extreme? It's not like it's a real sport even, like basketball or hockey

Note to self: Don't be flippant when talking about deeply help beliefs. Thanks LOZ.

Can't act. Can't sing. Balding. Can dance a little.

^The Cold War.

LOL @ Alle-Ubaahne. Finally, someone heard my cry for help for what it was. Tell me, ina-adeer, do you have a particular man in mind who will take on the unpleasant task of returning me to the fold with the power of shukaansi? Yaa tol ah? LOZ, How is what I said demeaning to Islam? Khalaf, Inyow. You listed some reasons why people don't believe, yet you think they do not apply to Islam. Why don't we pretend what you believe to be the case, to make it easier for you: Let's say I come from a Christian background, and so I'm under the mistaken notion that Islam has the same flaws, if you will. Why don't you explain why those reasons you listed do not apply to Islam? This will save time, since IF I were to explain my reasoning, you will either declare that I never understood Islam to begin with, or that I'm clearly lying and do not have a Muslim background. Obviously there's no way you will say "hey, it seems like you really were a Muslim, and you actually know and understand Islam well, and you sincerely questioned it and did not get satisfactory answers, and that's why you left." That's not an option for you and never could be, so let's skip the third degree, should we?

The books on these websites are ones that have their copyrights expired. Project Gutenberg is really amazing, and the other site seems to be equally extensive. Now I have two websites filled with books I want to read but never seem to have time for.

Huh. You know, the worms are sort of white, and curved, and they make a paste out of your muscle tissues that resembles the sauce in Kraft's Mac and Cheese. Wiggle wiggle wiggle.

^I blame Xiin, he has been doing that for a bit. But what seems like a harmless affectation from a respected elder is a little jarring coming from a pup Khalaf, I'm just not too keen on doing a reverse conversion story They are repetitive and tedious. Just take the long-story-short version: I know a bit about Islam, I was once a fairly devout Muslim, I no longer subscribe to it, but consider it a perfectly nice religion for those who like that sort of thing.

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^Eritrea's action speake for themselves dear sis. They are the only country to support the clan courts as well as giving them a safe heaven even Djibouti has given up on them, but Eritrea oh no. Even the hapless Sharif Xasan is there now. The UN monitoring group. The US, Uganda & the AU have highlighted the Eritrean involvement. Eritrean military involvement? Is there any concrete evidence of Eritrean military personnel during the conflict? Any troops killed or captured? Giving Sheikh Sharif a safe haven is frankly laudable, I certainly wouldn't hand him over to the Ethiopia & TFG when one is a foreign power with no jurisdiction over him and the other is no friend of his.

There was no argument It just so happened that last week I had a discussion (over dinner) with someone who studies trichinosis . There's nothing quite so eye-opening as hearing about how these little worms wiggle their way through your liver en route to your muscles; your pasta certainly starts to look less than appetizing...

Originally posted by General Duke: The clan courts had Eritrean, Oromo & other foreign troops, & declared Jihad to cover up this fact. 3.Tanzania with the Ugandans crushed Amin his Libyan & other supporters taking Kampala. Ethiopia with the TFG crushded the clan courts and their Eritrean & other foreign backers securing Mogadishu.. It's clear that Ethiopia has invaded Somalia (yes yes, at the TFG's gilded RSVP), but Eritrea was never shown to have a significant presence in Somalia, much less "other foreign troops". The parallel may break down there.

Originally posted by Taliban: The exact number will not make any difference to you, since knowing it isn't your objective. It is actually. I want to know what you consider to be "minor problems" in terms of actual number of people dead. How many people would have to be willfully murdered by their own government before you think it's a crisis? So what is the number Taliban? It's ridiculous to make a claim and then to coyly withhold information relevant to that claim. The same players (US, EU, UN) who concocted lies against Saddam Hussein are concocting lies against Sudan. Actually, the figure for how many people were killed in Darfur (at minimum over two hundred thousand) comes from NGOs. The US estimates are a lot less, and the UN is simply quoting NGOs like Human Rights Watch. Incidentally, these are the same NGOs who challenged America on the presence of WMDs in Iraq, who say 1 million people were massacred in Rwanda, and who estimate that the Iraq war toll is at 600,000 civilians. You quoted them in each of these instances, but suddenly become suspicious when they say that hundreds of thousands of civilians in Darfur have been killed, and over 2 million have been displaced. Isn't that interesting? Because those who have concocted lies against the Sudanese government have a track record of lying, therefore the Sudanese government is telling the truth. I'm not even going to point out the logical fallacy of that statement there.