^ It's a good way for the guy to weed out overly-sensitive prudes.

Originally posted by Section6er: Am not trying to be an azz but why will a wife refuse to have sex with her husband? I mean even if she doesnt want to have sex she can pretend. Why let it escalate to a raping situation? WTF. What, she's supposed to go "Oh oh, looks like he's gonna rape me if I don't give in. I better give in"?

Dems 'Only Ones' Who Can Make Nov. Operation A Success November 1, 2006 | Issue 42•44 WASHINGTON, DC—In a televised address to the nation Monday, President Bush announced that the U.S. is in "desperate need of thousands of registered Democrats" to conduct what he called an "extremely important mission" to begin immediately and continue at least until the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. "This mission is absolutely vital, for the next week to 10 days will determine the future of our country," said Bush, who would not reveal what the operation entailed, only to say that it was "highly classified." "We are calling on the most stalwart Democrats in the land," Bush said. "In fact, they are the only ones capable of making it a success." Although details were limited, an unnamed administration official revealed that, on Wednesday, November 1, registered Democrats will be asked to report to designated government rendezvous points such as post offices and military recruiting centers. Once there, they will be registered, fingerprinted, and issued one-piece jumpsuits, bedding, and canteens of drinking water, then directed to board brown school buses bound for an undisclosed location or locations. "Certainly it will mean sacrifice, and possibly a prolonged absence from your families," Bush said. "We need at least 40,000 Democrats, but more are always welcome." "Our very way of life depends on it," he added. While Bush said any registered Democrat is eligible to participate, those who reside in Arizona's Fifth, Ohio's First, and Pennsylvania's Eighth Congressional Districts are most needed to ensure the mission's success. Democrats from New Jersey, Missouri, Tennessee, and "especially Virginia" were also strongly encouraged to volunteer. Bush also called on the 64 percent of citizens upset with the handling of the situation in Iraq, the 80 percent who think Congress is doing a poor job, and the 63 percent who disapprove of his own job performance as "supremely qualified for the special task." Bush added that the same liberal voters with whom his administration has traditionally been at odds would be "warmly welcomed and fully accommodated." Bush appealed to Democrats' "noble hearts," describing his traditional political foes as "a breed apart—passionate, dedicated Americans who can really make a difference." Source

Despite not being related to secularism per se, I found your comments on science interesting, Cambarro. Originally posted by Cambarro: "I have never seen science investigate, study or even deign attention to religion. But religionists are always on science's case. Why is that?" The intelligent design and creationists debate ..ring any bell? Scientists stick their oar in on what kids are taught and what to include the school curriculum. Science classes teach science. Non-scientific theories don't belong in science classes. Creationism is not science by any stretch of the imagination. By all means, teach it in school, in religious education classes and such, but to force scientists to teach non-science is just perplexing. It's like asking a geologist to teach that the earth is flat on the grounds that someone somewhere believes it to be so. Many place science on great importance (in some cases this maybe true) but it is asking a lot from science to explain the unexplainable. What exactly is unexplainable? Everything that you believe that contradicts science? Isn't this circular reasoning? By drawing a line and saying "go no further", are you really showing the limits of science, or the flimsy nature of supernatural beliefs? If they fail to stand up to rational inquiry, isn't it fallacious to then declare that it is logic that's at fault? The cake analogy is really apt. Science is a tool, you said, that you can use to slice the cake. What other tools are there? Or are we supposed to stare in awe at the great culinary masterpiece and forbid people from finding out what it's made of? "You sound like little petulent girl stomping her feet on the ground, pouting about Mommy not painting her room according to her favourite color." Enough with the personal attacks. We are just having discussion, a civil one I hope. Indeed. Personalizing to that extent is distasteful, Socod_badne.

Hello Cambarro, I think you are convulating secularism with atheism/religious skepticism. Your use of Hitler and Stalin's regimes as secular systems clearly shows an inability to distinguish between the two. On the other hand, that you point out various cases of religious intolerance under secular institutions is very interesting and relevant to the discussion. But to complain about how a MUSLIM teacher was denied her right to cover her face in a CHRISTIAN school (followed by a trial in a SECULAR court which sided with her) is a little strange, to be honest. Especially since you also disapprovingly highlight a law which would've made it mandatory for a religious school to enroll children of other faiths. They must be hire the Muslim teacher, but can't be forced to enroll Muslim students? Your examples of injustices also pale in contrast to the excesses of militant theocracies. The Spanish Inquisition. The Crusades. Witch burnings presided over by godly priests. The countless wars that broke out in the various Islamic caliphates as one sect decided they were going to bring back "true" Islam. The caste system in India has it's strongest proponents among the religious elite. I think a critique of secularism that fails to consider thousands of years of human experience with the horrors of theocracy is a little one-sided. Originally posted by Cambarro: The so-called "seperation of church and state" can only result in the marginalisation and gradual but steady suppression of religion. You know, I think the problem with secularism, as far as the religious are concerned, is not so much that religions are given short-shrift as that religions are simply not given enough attention. Nothing quite makes a believer smugly fervent as having the perception that they are under-seige by the state. But people just don't care what you believe as long as you are not going to burn them at the stake, tear out their still-beating hearts and offer them to your god to appease him for another year, make them pay a special tax or wear special clothing, lay claim to their possessions, etc. And that bothers those who like to trumpet their religious convictions and foist them onto others.

It's true V, that's the moral of the story. Women should never rule, for the very fabric of society will be compromised if they do. Caraweelo kills her husband, her duaghter caasi bey tahay, and a young man has to kill his own grandmother. It's a cautionary tale about what happens when upstart women actually get their wish.

@ "The media really ticks me off. The way they try to embarrass me by not editing what I say".

Lt. Xalane, too nasty to repeat?? The word is "dhufaan". But it's not exclusive to men, you hear people saying "awr dhufaan ah". Dhagdheer was a dadqalato, little question she's just a myth. Suul cawro is another sheeko caruureed, you ever heard it?

No Somalis in the panel, don't we have any pundits? But the first caller (Ali) sure is Somali. "Less than 0% support for the TFG, whereas the IUC command 99.99% support from Somalis"

Dollars? Shillings? Pounds?

Originally posted by Modesty: Arabs view somalis as being inferior...I think all africans are brainwashed to the max (except Me). Hmmm?

Don't you actually have to buy fashion magazines to be bombarded with these images? Serves them right, I say.

Originally posted by Che-Guevara: Cara...The story from Cairo can't be substantiated, but Iam sure awful things do happen there too, and you might not have A grand Mufti calling women meat, but the west does portray women as meat. Just look tv ads and movies. Women are just there for men's amusement, forever there to satisfy men's fantasies, and still blamed for provoking these fantasies. They are reduced to mere objects. I don't remember anyone ever defending these images, do you? And look around. Women are anything but mere objects here just for male amusement. I rather live in a world in which ads are degrading but I'm free to do as I wish, than a world in which I'm placed on some lofty pedestal too far off the ground for me to move about.

Khalaf, Compare and Contrast the two systems and which system are human beings better off. Yeah, but better by what standards? Individual liberty? Security? Longevity? What would you use as an objective measure of superiority? Give it a go, establish one way in which one system is clearly better than the other.

Khalaf, English translations won't do justice to the stories. But there is a collection with both Somali and English versions of some folk tales like Caraweelo, Dhegdheer, Wiil Waal, etc. I've got it somewhere... Lt. Xalane, There was a word for the castrated men, who were Caraweelo's servants after she became queen. Hey, it'd be a great cyber-diss, wouldn't it? If I could just remember it. Che, Puhlease. With one swing of the godin...

CG, Ha noo faanin timaahaaga aad moodid in WMDs qari lagu yiri. me, don't be a party pooper, nothing quite unites Somalis like slamming on others.

Come on, those are good looking people. I'm especially digging the old man on the far right. Skinnies could take a lesson from him in colour coordination and style.

Originally posted by Khayr: The comparison and contrast is there, showing a a biased and differential treatment towards religious personalities versus affluent and wealthy political figures. [/QB] Khayr, you're comparing apples and oranges. Mackay insulted an individual, the Mufti insulted 3 billion people. Mackay's comment was an immature outburst, Al-Hilali was making moral judgements and his statements were prescriptive (he is telling people right from wrong). Mackay denies even calling Stronach a dog. Al-Hilali's 'apology' is doublespeak, not apologizing for the comments themselves, but for having "offended" anyone. This is just not a good example of double standards in the media.

Originally posted by Che-Guevara: quote:I am in arabia..and there was no a single rape reported in my place.. Majority of rapes even here in the west are not reported. Most women just suffer in silence. Cara...Safer in NY...eheh...lol. Have you lived in any of the five boroughs?. I don't know about If Burkas protect women or if miniskirts cause men to lose control, but I guarantee you NYC ain't any safer than Cairo. This is image of NY web page that comes to mind everytime I hear a woman being sexually assualted down in the big apple. It's not an everyday occurence though is it? I've never worn a burka or a miniskirt, and I don't intend to. But I'd definitely feel safer in New York City because at least the populance at large isn't being told by the likes of the Grand Mufti of Australia that women are meat, and that a woman invite rape by leaving their homes.

We're all related.

Yeah, what happened to the single Somali men? This is what happens when you fall asleep at the wheel guys. The married men and the foreigners baa na dafaya. Stop banking on your good looks and charm and make an effort!

Cudud ninam isu geeya, calafkoodana kala dhowra. Caraweelo is mostly a character of myth. There might have been a historic queen who ruled some parts of Somalia who inspired the stories though. But I'm mostly familiar with the tales of Caraweelo as sheeko xariir. She was a woman who was dissatisfied with the division of labor, with men ruling and warring and making the important decisions, while women did the housework. So she went to the women and argued that they'd be better at ruling the land. She told the women to refuse to do the housework for days. This is in the baadiye, you understand, so that basically means all the work but looking after the camels. Aqalka dhisitaankiisa can take a day, preparing food is itself a full time job (caano lis, galeey la tumo, oodkac samayntiisa, etc). So all the men where busy trying to keep up with all the work. The women, led by Caraweelo, seized all the weapons, rounded up the men and castrated all but one who managed to escape. Caraweelo ruled for many years (lots of mini-stories about what a tyrant she was) until her daughter ran into the man who escaped going under the knife. The little tramp got pregnant and came home. When she had a son, Caraweelo threatened to kill him but her daughter convinced her not to until he was full grown; he killed his grandmother, the murderous little tosser The end.

Heh. I got all the east coast states, even the itty bitty ones like Maine. I got most of the northern states, Texas, Georgia, Louisiana, and California of course. It's those square patches in the center that gave me trouble. And I always assume that South Dakota is, well, south.

Movements have to start somewhere. Somalia has been segregated by qabiil for 15 years, so even if the UIC has pan-Somali support the nucleus will be limited in geography, at least initially. That said, whether the lack of qabiil diversity (especially in leadership roles) is accident or intention will become clear in time. What is clear is the tragedy looming for us if the UIC abandons what worked for them (social services, local enforcement of law within a willling and desperate population) for grandiose expansionist "Jihad" on fellow Somalis.

Originally posted by Cambarro: If Africa have any sense, they would leave conflicts behind and they should just increase trade among themselves and remove trade and travel barriers among it's people and forget about help from the West, and finally we should stop exporting raw materials and start selling finished products. Very true. But finished products require skilled labour, which requires a healthy and educated populance, which requires infrastructures most African nations can't or won't create, so NGOs step in, which creates dependence and skews national priorities and makes international aid ever more necessary. It's a vicious circle we are only slowly getting out of. I think there's real progress being made, and a certain pan-African consciousness (a return to the spirit of the Africa of the 50's and 60's) that will make this century one in which nations improve by leaps and bounds.