Akhi Ngonge The issue at hand is critical, and this forum was meant for intellectual debates, not expediency, there are many readers who regularly follow and read every line that is posted, for the sake of Allah, let us discuss the issue from the Aqeedah and Fiqh perspectives, this will undoubtedly enrich the discussion and it may inspire some readers to change their views toward the right course inshAllah. I am extremely busy these days chasing my daily bread, but once the bread chasing project is closed, I will take the time to devote my time for this topic, and it will be worth your while inshAllah. Nur

I take that back yaa akhi, I misquoted you, your frequent label for the Shabaab is indeed Takfeeri and deviant group, which may confuse your readers to think that TFG as the guided and Better Muslim faction in the conflict. So, for the sake of justice, put them on equal turf yaa akhi al xabiib Waxaad qortay: Aslo,Nur, sidaad adigu rabto inaad wax u sheegto yeel, laakiin aakhirka waxaan kaa rabaa inaad mawqif cad ka istaagto mas aladda ah in dadka Alshabaab kasoo horjeedaa including TFG Gaalo yihiin, oo dhiigooddu bannaanyahay. Akhii al Xabiib, siduu Rasuulka Allah SAWS yidhi, Yaa Mucaadh, Waan ku jeclahayee, ha ka tagin inaad Salaad walba dabadeed tidhaah " Allow, igu gargaar, xasuustaada, mahad naqaaga iyo inaan sidii kugu habbooneyd aan kuu caabudo. Waxaan ku leeyahay, Xiinow waan ku jeclahayee, Hawadaaada ha raacin, adduunna ha ka jecleysan aakhiro, Allahna jaceylkiisa ha ku baddalanin jaceyl kale, wax Allah noo dhaama ma jiro, hadaba, aan asaga wax walba oo qaali ah aan ka dooranno. Markaan usoo laabto su'aashaada, qof walba oo ka soo horjeeda AS gaalo ma aha, ummad AS ka kheyr badan baa hortood fitno ka dhex dhacday, taasoo sabab u aheyd in dhexdooda ay soo galeen dad labada qoloba neceb, oo Munaafiqiin ah oo dab dagaal iyo colaad ka dhex dhaliyay dad walaalo ah. Akhi al Xabiib, maanta, AS saf bey taagan yihiin, mabda'na wey ku taagan yihiin aan is beddelin, siduu doono haloo arkee, laakin kuwa ka soo horjeeda waxaan shaki leheyn iney isku shaandheysan yihiin, siduu Allah ku yidhi Quraanka: " Isku Mid Ma aha, Ahlu Kitaabka waxaa ka mid ah ummad, taagan habeenka intiisa badan ayagoo sajuudsan * Wexey aaminsanyihiin Allah iyo maalinka qiyaame, wexeyna faraan dadka waxa wanaagsan, wexeyna ka hor istaagaan waxa xun, wexeyna ku baratmaan kheyr walba, wexeyna ka mid yihiin saalixiinta * Haddii uu Allah u qiray ummadihii naga horreyay qaarkood iney kheyr lahaayeen, waxaa dhab ah in ummadda Nabi Muxammad ayan kulligood baatil isku wada raaceynin, inkastoo ay fitnoyinka dad saalixiin ay maraka qaarkood lumin karaan. Fitno ka weynna ma jirto, yaa xabiib, in aad u kaashato qowm Allah neceb sidii aad ula diriri laheyd qowm Allah jecel. Fitno waxaa noogu filan, in aan kheyr ka raadinno dad aan ayaga kheyr laheyn. Nur

Criminal State A Closer Look at Israel's Role in Terrorism By Jeff Gates January 18, 2010 -- Response of former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when asked on September 11, 2001 what the attacks meant for U.S.-Israeli relations Game theory war-planners rely on mathematical models to anticipate and shape outcomes with staged provocations. For the agent provocateur, the reactions to a provocation—as well as the reactions to those reactions—thereby become predictable within an acceptable range of probabilities. With ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan poised to expand to Iran and Pakistan, it is time to take a closer look at how conflicts are catalyzed—by way of deception. When Israeli game theorist Robert J. Aumann received the 2005 Nobel Prize in economic science, he conceded from Jerusalem, “the entire school of thought that we have developed here in Israel” has turned “Israel into the leading authority in this field.” A professor at the Center for the Study of Rationality at Hebrew University, Aumann’s Nobel lecture, titled “War and Peace,” expounded on the rationality of war. With a well-modeled provocation, a target’s anticipated reaction can even become a weapon in the aggressor’s arsenal. In response to the provocation of 9-11, how difficult was it to foresee that the U.S. would deploy its military to avenge that attack? With U.S. intelligence “fixed” by well-placed insiders around a predetermined goal, how difficult was it to anticipate that the reaction to 9-11 could be redirected to wage war in Iraq? The emotional component of a provocation plays a key role in game theory warfare. With the nationally televised mass murder of 3,000 people, a state of shock, grief and outrage made it easier for Americans to believe that a known Evil Doer in Iraq was responsible—regardless of the facts. For false beliefs to displace real facts requires mental preconditioning so that a targeted population can be persuaded to put their faith in fictions. That conditioning enhances the probability of a successful deception. Those who deceived the U.S. to invade Iraq in March 2003 began a decade beforehand to lay the “mental threads” and make the requisite mental associations to advance that agenda. Notable among those threads was the 1993 publication in Foreign Affairs of a theme-setting article by Harvard University professor Samuel Huntington. By the time his analysis appeared in book-length form in 1996 as The Clash of Civilizations, more than 100 think tanks were prepared to promote it. The result created a widely touted narrative—a thematic storyline—supporting a “clash consensus” five years before 9-11 provided a plausible rationale for war. Also published in 1996 under the guidance of Richard Perle was A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (i.e., Israel). A member since 1987 of the U.S. Defense Policy Board, this self-professed Zionist became its chairman in 2001. As an adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Perle’s Pentagon advisory post provided a powerful insider position to shape the national security mindset around the removal of Saddam Hussein, a key theme of A Clean Break—released five years before 9-11. That same year Netanyahu addressed a joint session of Congress at the invitation of Newt Gingrich, the Christian Zionist Speaker of the House. Murders, books, articles, think tanks and well-placed insiders are common components in a “probabilistic” model deployed by war-planning game theorists. Lawmakers are also a customary ingredient. They provide credibility and a facade of legitimacy—a critical element when inducing a nation to war with phony intelligence fixed around a preset agenda. That role was eagerly filled by Senators John McCain, Joe Lieberman, a Jewish Zionist from Connecticut, and Jon Kyl, a Christian Zionist from Arizona, when they co-sponsored the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. By promoting Israel’s 1996 agenda for Securing the Realm, their legislation laid yet another mental thread in the public mindset by calling for the ouster of Saddam Hussein—three years before 9-11. The legislation also appropriated $97 million to promote their agenda. Distracted by mid-term Congressional elections and impeachment proceedings catalyzed by a well-timed presidential affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky, Bill Clinton signed that Zionist agenda into law in October 1998—4-1/2 years before a U.S.-led invasion removed the Iraqi leader. After 9-11, McCain and Lieberman became inseparable travel companions and irrepressible advocates for the invasion of Iraq. Striking a presidential pose aboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt in January 2002, McCain—a son and grandson of admirals—laid another mental thread when he waved an admiral’s cap and proclaimed, alongside Lieberman, “On to Baghdad.” By Way of Deception The confidence with which this game theory strategy progressed in plain sight could be seen in the behavior of Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, another Zionist insider. Four days after 9-11 while in a principals’ meeting at Camp David, he proposed that the U.S. invade Iraq. At that time, the intelligence did not point to Iraqi involvement and Osama bin Laden was thought to be hiding in a remote region of Afghanistan. On that same day, San Diego FBI Special Agent Stephen Butler interrogated Iraqi Munther Ghazal at his home near San Diego to determine if he was funding Mel Rockefeller, an American with whom Ghazal traveled to Baghdad in early 1997. After meeting for several days with a top nuclear physicist with oversight of Iraq’s mothballed nuclear weapons program, Rockefeller returned to the U.S. with a practical proposal for removing Saddam Hussein without this war and without triggering an insurgency. When regional specialists at the U.S. Department of State would not meet with him, he traveled to Ottawa in April 1997 where he met with Middle East specialists in the Canadian government to ensure a written record was made to confirm there was an alternative to war in Iraq—six years before the invasion. Instead of debriefing him, FBI agents sought to discredit him. Though FBI agents interviewed Ghazal many times, they have yet to meet with Mel Rockefeller. Agent Butler cashed checks and paid rent for the two San Diego-based hijackers who piloted planes into the World Trade Center towers. The same Iman counseling Major Nidal Hasan (with FBI knowledge) before he was transferred to Fort Hood also counseled the San Diego-based hijackers—with FBI knowledge. As of December 1, 2009, no one from the FBI or national security had debriefed Mel Rockefeller—eight years after 9-11. See: Ft. Hood: “Death By Political Correctness”? and Ft. Hood Tragedy: The Real Story of the Terrorist “Mad Doctor Hasan” When President George H.W. Bush declined to invade Baghdad and remove Saddam Hussein during the 1991 Gulf War, Pentagon Under Secretary for Policy Paul Wolfowitz imposed a No-Fly Zone in northern Iraq. By the invasion of March 2003, the Israeli Mossad had agents deployed for a decade in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Intelligence reports of Iraqi ties to Al Qaeda were also traced to Mosul—reports that proved false. Mosul again emerged in November 2004 as a center of the insurgency that destabilized Iraq. That reaction precluded the speedy exit of coalition forces promised in Congressional testimony by senior war-planner Wolfowitz in the lead-up to the invasion. An Inside Job? The common pro-Israeli source of the phony intelligence that induced war in Iraq has yet to be acknowledged even though intelligence experts agree that deception on such a scale required a decade to plan, staff, pre-stage, orchestrate and—until now—cover up. The leaders of the 9-11 Commission conceded they were thwarted by Commission members adamantly opposed to hearing testimony on the hijackers’ motivation for 9-11: the U.S.-Israeli relationship. The fictions reported as facts by mainstream media included Iraqi WMD, Iraqi ties to Al Qaeda, Iraqi meetings with Al Qaeda in Prague, Iraqi mobile biological weapons laboratories and Iraqi purchases of “yellowcake” uranium from Niger. Only the last claim was conceded as bogus prior to the invasion. Only after the war began were the balance of the claims disclosed as false, flawed or outright fabricated. An attempt to punish former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Joe Wilson for his exposure of the phony yellowcake account led to a federal conviction of vice-presidential chief of staff Lewis Libby, another well-placed Zionist insider. The multi-decade consistency of agent-provocateur fact patterns suggests that this game theory-modeled warfare includes the Israeli provocation that catalyzed the Second Intifada. An intifada is an uprising or, literally, a “shaking off” of an oppressor. The Second Intifada dates from September 2000 when Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon led an armed march to Jerusalem’s Temple Mount—one year before 9-11. After a year of calm during which Palestinians believed that Israel was sincere about peace, suicide bombings recommenced. As Sharon conceded, his march was meant to demonstrate Israeli control over a site considered holy by Muslims worldwide. In response to this second failed attempt at “shaking off” Israeli domination, Sharon and Netanyahu observed that only when Americans “feel our pain” would they understand the plight of the victimized Israelis. These Likud Party leaders commented that the requisite empathy (“feel our pain”) would require a weighted body count of 4,500 to 5,000 Americans lost to terrorism—the initial estimate of those who died in the twin towers of the World Trade Center—one year later. In other words, only with pain could we identify with the Israelis. Does that mean that only with a mass murder could we be induced to respond with our military to advance their agenda? Was the U.S. response mathematically modeled at the Center for the Study of Rationality? Seven months after 9-11, Benjamin Netanyahu gave a speech in a U.S. Senate office building where he was introduced by Senators Jon Kyl and Joe Liebermn American Valkyrie? When successful, game theory warfare strengthens the agent provocateur while leaving the target discredited and depleted by the anticipated reaction. By game theory standards, 9-11 was a strategic success because the U.S.—by its response—was widely criticized for waging war on false pretenses. Only in hindsight did a deceived public realize that Iraq had nothing to do with that mass murder. However, that invasion had everything to do with “securing the realm.” Our response (predictably) triggered a deadly insurgency with devastating consequences for Iraqis, the U.S. and a “coalition of the willing” led to war by a successfully duped U.S. From a game theory perspective, that insurgency was a predictable reaction in a nation populated by three long-feuding sects: Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds. A violent invasion led by a nation closely allied with Jewish nationalists only further fueled the flames of violence and extremism—another foreseeable outcome. Until the U.S.-led invasion, peace was maintained by an unsavory dictator and former U.S. ally who was rebranded an Evil Doer in the lead-up to war. As the cost in blood and treasure from our “liberation” of Iraq expanded, the U.S. became overextended militarily, financially and diplomatically. The sectarian violence unleashed in Iraq is precisely what Messrs. Rockefeller and Ghazal were cautioned against in early 1997 should Saddam Hussein be removed suddenly and violently. The 1.3 million Iraqi deaths from war-related causes exceeds the worst of Saddam Hussein’s atrocities. As any competent game theory war-planner knew, the strategic winner in this war was certain to be Iran as the U.S. neutralized its key foe—and is now urged by Israel to wage war on Iran. As the U.S.—the primary target of this deception—emerged in the foreground, the agent provocateur faded into the background. But only after catalyzing dynamics that steadily drained the U.S. of credibility, resources and resolve. This “probabilistic” Israeli victory also ensured widespread cynicism, insecurity, distrust and disillusionment along with a steadily declining capacity to defend our real interests. Meanwhile the American public came under a system of oversight and surveillance packaged and sold as “homeland security.” This ominously titled operation includes rhetorical echoes of a WWII-era “fatherland” featuring a domestic security force completely alien to U.S. traditions. It is not yet clear whether this new agency was established to protect Americans. Or whether it is meant to shield from Americans those responsible for deceiving us to wage their wars. In January 2003, Secret Service Agent Richard Sierze interrogated Mel Rockefeller at his home in Fresno, California after he sent an email to Florida Governor Jeb Bush. The email said, in effect, that if the governor’s brother (President George Bush) did not interview him on a public record prior to invading Iraq, he would do his best to ensure that lawful means were deployed to see the president executed for treason by a firing squad. When questioned by Sierze, Rockefeller offered to have the agent speak with Dr. Glenn Olds, an adviser to four presidents, his senior adviser since 1994 and a former U.N. Ambassador who assisted him in entering Iraq through Jordon at a time when Americans were prohibited from traveling there. Sierze declined. He also repeated his intent to see the president executed for treason and insisted that he be charged and taken before a federal magistrate to present evidence that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and that an alternative to war had been available since early 1997. Agent Sierze declined his demand to be arraigned in a U.S. Federal District Court—seven weeks before the invasion. Agent Sierze should be interviewed to see if, in retrospect, he agrees that—had this advice been followed—the war in Iraq may well have been prevented. To date, no one with line responsibility has interviewed Mel Rockefeller on a public record. Why? The answer to that question would reveal those responsible for this ongoing deception. The victims of these serial deceptions, including the families of those murdered in November at Fort Hood, may have a wrongful death cause of action against those with line responsibility who aided these operations by failing to engage the Rockefeller record in a timely fashion. Foreseeable Futures By manipulating the shared mindset, skilled game theory war-planners can wage wars on multiple fronts with minimal resources. One proven strategy: Pose as an ally of a well-armed nation predisposed to deploy its military in response to a mass murder. In this case, the result destabilized Iraq while creating (predictable) crises that could be exploited to greater strategic advantage by expanding the conflict to Iran, another Israeli goal announced in A Clean Break—seven years before the invasion of Iraq. Today’s mathematically model-able outcomes undermined U.S. national security by discrediting our leadership, degrading our financial condition and disabling our political will. In game theory terms, this devastation was perfectly predictable—within an acceptable range of probabilities. Pakistan is primed to emerge as the next battleground for game theory war-planners. When India, an ally of Israel, became the nation honored by the Obama administration’s first state dinner, that occasion gave reason for concern due to the dynamics already at work in the background. See “What Is Israel’s Role in the Destabilization of Pakistan?” In the asymmetry that typifies modern warfare, those who are few in number have no alternative when pursuing an expansionist agenda but to wage their wars by way of deception. To maintain its perceived status as a perennial victim, Israeli aggression must proceed non-transparently. Its only option is to operate with duplicitous means, including leveraging the power of its insider influence to advance an agenda from the shadows. Thus the strategic necessity that this extremist enclave befriend the U.S.—with the intent to betray that friendship to advance its geopolitical goals. Thus the strategic need to create a relationship of trust with a post-WWII super power—in order to defraud us. How else could Colonial Zionists wage their wars except with our military? How else could Jewish nationalists induce our aggression absent the widely shared belief that Israel is not an aggressor but a victim? Winning Wars from the Inside Out Game theory war-planners manipulate the shared mental environment by shaping the perceptions and impressions that become consensus opinions. With a combination of well-timed crises, fixed intelligence and a complicit media, policy-makers can be induced to support a predetermined agenda—not because lawmakers are Evil Doers but because the public mindset has been pre-conditioned to respond to manipulated thoughts, emotions and beliefs. Without the mass murder of 9-11, would America’s credibility be in tatters and its creditworthiness in jeopardy? By steadily displacing facts with false beliefs, those duplicitous few-within-the-few amplify the impact of their deceit. By their steady focus on the mental environment, game theory war-planners can defeat an opponent with vastly superior resources. Today’s intelligence wars are waged in plain sight and under the cover of shared beliefs. By manipulating consensus opinion, psy-ops wars can be won from the inside out by inducing a targeted populace to freely choose the very forces that imperil their freedom. Thus in the Information Age the disproportionate power wielded by those with outsized influence in media, popular culture, think tanks, academia and politics—domains where Zionist influence is pervasive not only in the U.S. but also in other nations induced to war on false pretenses. Germany offers a case study in manipulation of the public mindset in plain sight and under the banner of a free press. In 2003, Zionist media mogul Haim Saban acquired the second largest media conglomerate in Germany. Why? As Saban investment banker Steve Rattner explained his client’s motivation: “Because Germany is important to Israel.” Or, as Saban concedes: “I have only one issue and that issue is Israel.” By 2005, Saban had succeeded in electing Angela Merkel as German Chancellor. She quickly became the European Union’s most reliable and forceful advocate for Israel. By November 2009, she was prepared to sponsor in Berlin an unprecedented joint session of the German and Israeli governments. Following his political success in Germany, Saban acquired in 2007 a controlling interest in Univision, a Latino-focused network serving the fastest-growing voting bloc in the U.S. Media manipulation serves as an essential force-multiplier to wage intelligence wars from the periphery or, as with Haim Saban, in plain sight. At the operational core of such psy-ops are game theory war-planners skilled at personality profiling and masterful at anticipating responses to staged provocations and then incorporating those responses into their arsenal. In the case of Iraq, our (mathematically) foreseeable response to 9-11 led, in practical effect, to Israel’s deployment of our military to invade Iraq. For aggressors adept at psy-ops warfare, facts are only an inconvenience to be overcome when waging war by way of deception. Thus the key role played by consensus-shapers featured in mainstream media outlets who focus not on informing the public but on mental conditioning. For targeted populations dependent on facts and informed consent to protect their freedom and preserve the rule of law, such treachery poses the greatest possible threat. Yet even now many Americans believe that Israel is not an aggressor but a victim and even an ally despite facts confirming a multi-decade pattern of expansionist nationalism and geopolitical deception. Adhering to an Enemy The U.S. is far less secure than before 9-11. Tel Aviv clearly intends to continue its serial provocations as evidenced by its ongoing expansion of settlements and its continuing blockade of Gaza. Israel has shown no willingness to negotiate in good faith. With few exceptions, Barack Obama has named as senior advisers either Zionists are those known to be strongly pro-Israeli. The greatest threat to world peace is not Islam. The most fundamental threat that underlies all others is our “special relationship” with a skilled agent provocateur. Without U.S. support for an enclave of nuclear-armed religious extremists, the common source of this threat could long ago have been identified and steps taken to ensure its containment. In the same way that lengthy pre-staging was required to induce the U.S. to invade Iraq, a similar strategy is now underway to persuade the U.S. to invade Iran or support an attack by Israel. Pakistan is also now on the agenda of those marketing The Clash narrative with its vision of a perpetual war against “militant Islam.” Similar mental conditioning is again at work, including the high profile branding of the requisite Evil Doer: Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinajad. From its outset, the Zionist enterprise sought supremacy in the Middle East. To date, its alliance with the U.S. has enabled the deployment of American military might in pursuit of goals set by Jewish nationalists more than a half-century before a Christian Zionist U.S. president was induced to extend nation-state recognition. Harry Truman made that fateful decision despite his fears that Israel would become what Zionist lobbyists assured him it would not become—and what it immediately became: a racist and theocratic state. Only one nation had the means, motive, opportunity and stable nation state intelligence required to take the U.S. to war in the Middle East while making it appear that Islam—not Israel—is the problem. When a long-deceived American public—especially the U.S. military—grasps the common source of this devastating duplicity, the response will shift the geopolitical landscape. The facts suggest that “sympathy for Israel” is not among the probable reactions. If Barack Obama continues to cater to these extremists, this Nobel peace laureate can rightly be blamed when the next attack features the usual orgy of evidence pointing to a pre-staged Evil Doer. Should another mass murder occur, that incident may well be traceable to the U.S.-Israeli relationship and to the failure of our policy-makers to protect America—and world peace—from this enemy within. See also: How Israel Took Control of U.S. Foreign Policy How Israel Wages War in Plain Sight Appeasing Israel—At What Cost? American Intifada—Shaking Off Six Decades of Deceit First published December 1, 2009 Thanks to alawson911 for providing the video - This series is based on an article by Jeff Gates, who is a widely acclaimed author, attorney, merchant banker, educator and consultant to governments worldwide, who served for seven years as counsel to the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance. He is the author of Guilt by Association, Democracy At Risk and The Ownership Solution. See his website http://criminalstate.com/

^^Shaykhul Azhar a-Sharifah aa haray, Maadeey. Asna haddaan soo xigto wuxuu arrintan ka yiri waa lagu kala tagaa meesha Xiinow, meesha waa la isu fadhiyaayee, waxaan u maleynayaa in mar hore Sheikhul Azhar laga wada tagay markuu Fatweeyay in Darbi Lagu Wareejiyo Gaza maatadeeda Yuhuuddu ay kumaanka ka laysay schoolada iyo hospitaaladana ku gubtay. Waxa ila fiican inaad ku ekaatid adillada Culimada macquulka ah ood qaarkood soo xigatay, kuwaasna, waa in la isla meel dhigaa iney xaq yihiin, iyo in addilladooda ay tahay mid wafaqsan muraadka Allah oo ah in diintiisa la dhowro, dadkana laga badbaadsho ciqaab aakhiro iyo mid adduun. Nur

Akhi Xiin Youw say: We are not in the business of issuing fatwas, Nur. We are trying to establish if the claim of apostasy on a large numbers of Muslims including TFG, and other admins in Somalia has any valid religious grounds. Brother, Fatwa in Arabic precisely means ESTABLISHING IF CLAIM OF APOSTACY IS VALID And by the way, it did happen in the past during the Riddah Wars, when some MUSLIMS refused to pay the Zakat after the death of Prophet Muhammad SAWS. So, in our present case, we need to establish IF THE CLAIM IS RIGHT OR WRONG, and we can not establish that fact without a solid foundation of a XUKUM that has to be agreed upon before we superimpose that Xukum on the subjects in this matter. We need to be detached from the problem to solve it to fathom deeply into all of the dimensions comprising the issue. You write: I compiled the opinions of Sunni contemporary scholars, elucidating the caution employed when expounding the tafseer of the verse takfeeri groups cite to invalidate their detractors. Trying to give a misnomer to the party you are debating beats the very purpose of a healthy discussion, name calling like Takfeeri is an insult in my opinion, I personally detest it, as I believe that we are all Muslims on this forum. Akhi, stick to the issues only, and stop the irresponsible name calling which is increasingly clouding your judgement. You say: We are at the edges of the pool, Nur, and going back on discussing how a generic XUKM is arrived in Islamic jurisprudence prolongs the suffering of this thirsty gallery awoowe If this is the size of the pool of daleels that you see for a topic as critical as this, yaa akhi Xiin, its very shallow, wallahi, there are more to this issue than you have posted, and I am spending the last five days researching to articulate and respond to you as I do not take an issue like TAKFEER lightly, since its not light in the eyes of Allah, its shouldn't be light on ours, and besides, as much as one can drift to an edge of extremism of Khawarij, equally, its possible that some drift to the other side of Murjia and Juhamia, and its worth your while being patient and read every line of opposing counterpoint to stay in the middle course of Ahlul Sunnah which we all aspire to be with. The following is an old response to you ( 2007) about what constitutes the Islamic State that deserves our allegiance, and our obedience so that anyone who breaks ranks with it will be like the KHAWARIJ which you frequently refer to those you disagree with. Xiinfaniin walaal You write: But I am still not convinced (though admittedly I am fleeting with more questions than answers) about the rigidity of those processes you cited. Answer: Walaal Xiin , Sharia of Allah is a sacred ordinance, conforming to it is a sign of surrender to Allah, rejecting it is a sign of kufr, as such we must be diligent when presenting it for application into our lives. Sharia is applied after those whose affairs are in their hands ( Sovereign) have surrendered to Allah in deed , as a mean for establishing an Islamic State to fulfill its duties entrusted to it by Allah SWT on earth to uphold justice, enjoying what is right and forbid what is evil. An Islamic state in turn has its requirements. Adherence to Sharia law is a form of surrender to Allah's authority, its thus a from of worship, Allah SWT says : inil xukmu illaa lillah, amara allaa tacbuduu illaaa iyaah dhalikal diinul qayim, walaakinna aktharunnasi laa yaclamuun : Meaning; Law making is reserved for Allah SWT, He has ordered that you shall not worship other than Him, (because) that is the right way of life ( Deen) but most people do not realize (the fact) ( since any other judicial power constitutes to be a sovereign, other than Allah, adherence to its law is tantamount to worship other than Allah ) Such a sacred ordinance can only be carried out by a competent entity like an Islamic State. The state has to be defined in terms of the Sharia auspices from which it will draw its legitimacy, in light of the Quraan and Sunnah. The best definition of an Islamic State in modern times was the one adopted by the delegates of 31 Muslim scolars that convened in Karachi, Pakistan during the conference of ( Establishment Of An Islamic State ) held on the 21 - 24 of January 1951. Here are the set of conditions they have agreed upon as a consensus to be met before a state can be an Islamic State. ( below is my rusty translation from the original document in Arabic ): 1.The Real Power, behind legislation and Establishment of state should belong to ALLAH alone. ( TASHRIIC+ TAKWIIN) in Somali ( Maxaa la isugu tagay ( Qarannimo, Qabiil, Dhul?), maxaana la isku xukumayaa?) 2. There should not be any law, ordinance or a directive that conflicts with the Quraan and Sunnah. 3. The State should not be a geographically, ethnically, regionally, defined state. It should be established on a globalist scope for all mankind, transcending all temporal boundaries ( Allah Is the Absolute Sovereign, All Humans are His Subjects. The Universe in which our Planet Earth is located is His Undisputed Dominion) by virtue of creation. 4. The state must work toward establishing good, and provide all of its means, and prohibit evil, and deter against it by all means. 5. The State must work toward the unification of all Muslims all over the world, in deed, and to feel their plight similar to how the human body senses its self , the whole body feeling pain when part of it is in pain. ( Hadeeth) 6. The state must provide for its citizens basic needs of shelter, food , education, health care, and specially for the physically or mentally disabled, or the unemployed, State shall not differentiate beneficiaries by social status or ethnic privilege. 7. All citizens without distinction are equal under the Sharia, such as protection of life, property, dignity, freedom of worship, personal freedoms, freedom of speech, freedom to travel without hindrance, freedom of association, freedom of trade, equal opportunity for employment and advancement, and equality for receiving public assistance. 8. No citizen should be denied any of the above rights without a legal decree from Islamic Sharia, no one should be punished without due process of law in an impartial court applying the sharia and extracting its legitimacy from Quraan and sunnah, and allowance for self defense aginst charges. 9. The head of state should be Muslim, Male, Dependable,with clean record, Credible, just, known for his piety, thoughtful and careful decision making method. 10. The head of state should be the Chief Executive of affairs, with privilege to delegate parts of his duties to a person or an institution that he trusts. 11. Head of state should consult according to Shuraa principle with people of knowledge in the specific fields, Ahulul Xal wal caqd (Those most knowledgeable in the Sharia) He should not dictate without consulting them. 12. Head of state should not make any law ineffective, partially or as a whole, and he should not dictate without first conferring with the shuraa committee. 13. The public represented by the ahlul Xal wal caqd ( Those most knowledgeable in the Sharia) reserve the right to elect the head of state, or to relieve him of his responsibility with a majority as Islam has prescribed. 14.Head of State has no immunity against the Sharia law, he is equal with all citizens in right and responsibilities. 15. Members of government, its employees and the public should follow a single process and system, and should equally stand before a public court in the land. 16. The Judicial branch should be separate and independent from the executive branch for passing judgments. 17. No interpretation of any law is allowed if its not in line with Quraan and Sunnah. 18. State will not tolerate any advocacy activity that clearly opposes Islamic principles, threatening the very existence of the nation. Questions: 1.Based on the above, which comes first the state with its conditions, or the Sharia? 2. We have seen Sharia declared all over the world, from States in Nigeria to Indonesia, where in the spectrum of above are they fitting? 3. You say, that perfection should not be the goal, how much of the above conditions do you see important? 4. I am sure that you agree that Walaa ( allegiance) should be for Allah ALONE, what happens when its for the Tribe? the recent clash in Mogadishu was immediately switched from Jihad to targeting a tribe. Walaa being part of tawheed, is it well understood that its for Allah? is it a minor thing in your opinion? Now, my answers to some of your questions. I believe that residents of Mogadishu have every right to defend themselves, properties and dignity and faith, if they choose Islam as their faith, its should not be for convenience, its a complete set of a divine regimen, applying parts of it and discarding parts is more damaging to Islam as a brand as it makes it ineffective. ( The Sharia will only be applied on common thieves, not on powerful head of Qabiil) From architecture point of view if you will ( or An-architecture in our case), the question that bounces back at you for your suggestion is, if we have to build a wholesome house, shouldn't all parts of the house be designed in a way that will complement each other? shouldn't they all conform to a standard upon which they will all aspects seamlessly fit? As for your theory of gradual application, in a way I find it conflicting with your previously held stand ( Qowlul Qadeem) that we should stick with Quraan and Sunnah to the fullest without compromise, for which I have shifted my views of gradual change and preferred yours to my old view, its precisely the same argument that will accommodate a female head of state as a need based solution for the Ummah at these troubling times, if we indeed open the door to this gradual change theory, like science of genetics, no one will know where it will lead, its scary at best, we need either a past history of success following this method, or a detailed strategy of how it will happen, you know me, I am flexible, I don't have a permanent position on any issue, just a permanent search of Allah through the guidance of His prophet SAWS Sunnah. Finally about your question on Maqaasidul Shariica on this issue? You see Xiin walaal, Fiqhul Usuul and Maqaasidul Shariica are two complementary disciplines in Islamic Jurisprudence: 1. Fiqhul Usuul, deals with how things are. Its based on proofs ( addillah). In other words, the letter of the law. 2. Maqaasidul Shariica, deals with how things can be. Its based on what the lawmaker intended behind legislation. In other words, the Moral of The law In the application of Sharia law, Maqasidul Sharia places the protection of the Sharia in the first priority level, one notch higher than the protection of life, as you have seen, if Sharia is in place human life, property and dignity can be protected, if its not, then we shall continue in the anarchy in Somalia.Ù therefore, in order to apply the sharia fully, as first priority, all necessary means must be considered, however, it should never be compromised expeditiously due to a passing need. Akhi, Xiin, InshaAllah, my rebuttal of your views regarding the Riddah of the TFG, will begin with the Maqaasidul Sharica aspect of the problem at hand, which will put the issue in perspective, because, if we lose sight of that context of the discussion, no one will know where the goal posts are, hence the confusion. I said all of the above with utmost respect to you and your opinion, let us be the change we want to see in our people, having a respectful and healthy dialogue is the first step. Nur

It's all nonsense though. What's the point of starting various threads with different lists if you do not want to stick your neck out and apply these Xukums to what is happening in Somalia? What a waste of a great talent, if only you had patience! Expediency is the mother of all blunders, what Laba-X is trying to do is to reach a conclusion on the issue of the Xukum, the basis of the main question on the board, because, without a solid conclusion on this pivotal issue, its rather useless discussing the latter part of the problem, the TFG's Riddah which brother Xiin has posted. Nur

JB Saaxib You write: the aspect that interests me for the moment is his(and his family's) outlook on life before becoming The prophet of Islam. Its indeed interesting to many researchers like you. InshAllah, I will try to compile the best I can get for you inshAllah. To get a good picture of his family's influence in his development and character, try to read on the part of the site that talks about the Pre-Islamic Mecca, His lineage of the Qureish Tribe(Descendants of Abraham through Ishmael) who were the custodians of the Holy Kaba shrine in Mecca. Noteworthy in your research is his immediate family members such as his Grandpa, Abdul Muttalib, who was the custodian of the Kaaba Shrine during the Abyssinian invasion with their African Elephants. Nur

Akhi Xiin According to Sheikh Ibnul Qayyim in his famous book, Iclaamul Muwaqqiciin, a Fatwa requires two conditions: 1. Knowledge of the XUKUM 2. Knowledge of the Reality on the ground The first is pure FIQH The second requires impartial description of the state of affairs and actions of the party involved in the XUKUM. Usually, if this was a case before an islamic Court, it will require witnesses to show that the XUKUM has been violated without any doubt. So, let us spend some time on XUKUM, I have no doubt that once we settle the XUKUM that the second part will be self evident. I am out on the issue, I am yet to post my two cents on the XUKUM in a way that may not have been covered in this thread yet. Nur

Akhi al xabib, I am multi tasking as I write this piece and your questions are always very rich and require thoughtful responses, inshallah, I will respond soon, please be patient with me. Akhuukum Nur

Very good question JB. The life of Prophet Muhammad SAWS is well documented in a special branch of Islamic studies known as the Seerah, or The Biography of Prophet Muhammad SAWS. Muslim scholars have documented his life from birth,( The Year of the Elephant ), his early childhood in which he lost his father before birth and mother at age six, and his grandfather at 10, his subsequent upbringing by his uncle Abu Talib, his early youth and shepherd life, his earning of the nickname "The Trustworthy", his marriage to his 15 years senior first wife Khadijah at age 25, his trading and caravan trips as his wife's employee, up until his meditation seclusions at Ghaar Xiraa and the encounter with Angel Gabriel at age 40. It was Khadijah, the Prophet's wife who took him to her cousin Waraqa ibn Nawfal, a Christian who prophesied what Muhammad has seen saying: "Its the Namoos, The signs of the prophethood of Moses, May Peace be upon him. If I live long enough to see the day when your people will expel you, I would be your supporter" Please follow the most detailed account of Prophet Muhammad from this site: http://www.rasoulallah.net/index_english.asp Nur

e-Nuri Opticians Presents Clouds Of Deception Smoke screens blur our visions, while media screens blur our concepts. If you are what you eat, then it follows that your beliefs will be based on what you see in the media, and when your beliefs are systematically corrupted by a daily regimen of false, omitted, and that you have no time to verify, your consent has just been hijacked, and you are on the wrong train to hell. Coming Soon to a Monitor Near You! 2010 eNuri Opticians Where Believing Leads To Seeing -------------------------------------

Great topics indeed, Laba-X, Keep um coming, the board is humming with valuable knowledge indeed. Nur

Well Said Laba-X A Timely explanation to show fallacies of the Modern Murji'ah Aqeedah. Nur

Walaal Xiin. Waxaan kaa dalbayaa inaad akhriso mar labaad qoraalkan, oo ah mid aan waqti badan ku bixiyay qoraalkiisa iyo isku duwiddisa uguna talagalay si gaar ah arrimaha aad ka sharqamisay. Akhi, markaad akhriso waxaan qorey, sidee baad u aragtaa qoraalka, iyo Sifada ay leedahay Dawladda TFG? Haddaan labadeennu xaqdoon nahay, shaki ku ma jiro inaan isu keeni doonno wixii dan ah oo xikmad ku jirto, laakin, diinta cilmi qoto dheer bey u baahan tahay, hadaba saanta yara gaabi si aan dhagax wlaba u rogno oon waxa ku hoos jira usoo saarro. Nur

Akhi, Xiin You write: Having established that atom of Islamic fiqhi, we shall now turn on the question of dealing with non-believers and aiding them against believers (worst case scenario). Not so quick akhi, this issue deserves 90% of the dialogue, its the pivotal issue over which all actions follow. I have missed a great debate. That only happens when I am on the road. Akhi, I have riposted my old Aqeeda thread, it will be beneficial that you go through it slowly, it may clarify some of the confusions that you have on this issue. To guide you how to read that old thread, here are some pointers: 1. Kuf and Islam are two entities that manifest through action, Sin is different than Kufr, but istixlaal of sin (Insisting on sinning)can lead to kufr. 2. Faith is a set of information and Actions. To be a Muslim, one must believe in the information, the extent of that person's compliance with the actions are a mirror image of his inner belief of the information given. 3. Iman increases with good deeds, and decreases with sins and violations, the more a person insists ( Istixlal) on a sin, the closer he gets to Kufr. 4. An exception of this rule is the case of the Munaafiq who lives with the Muslims, and the Mukrah who lives with the Kuffar. Let us agree on these principles, and gather the Quraan and sunnah Daleels to substantiate it further, so that once we settle these we will comforatably move to your political arena, to see who is who in crowd. Nur

Nomads I was away for a short while and I appreciate the level of Intellectual exchange on vital issues of our faith, specially, Aqeeda issues of current political events. After reading the threads started by Brother Xiin who I have debated for many years on this forum, I have come to the conclusion that Brother Xiin needs to brush up on Aqeeda Issues before getting in the ring to substantiate the Islamic legitimacy of policies and the men behind them. It really helps to reread these issues in light of the ongoing discussion. The question that my Aqeead collection answers are: 1. What is Islam? 2. Who is a Muslim? Kaafir or Munaafiq? 3. What are the levels of Iman? 4. What is Istixlal? 5. What is Democracy? 6. Is Democracy Kufr? 7. What is Shuraa? 8. What is the importance of Sharia in Islam? 9. What is SAMAD and Soverignty? ..... and more. Its interesting that this collection was not challenged by Xiin or anyone else on the side of Xiin's argument in this debate, which implies that if they have read it, that they agree with it, if that is the case, then, we are all in the same page, minor clarifications are in order, otherwise, its better that we debate the validity of the short form Aqeeda pointers in this thread, as I believe that will not a leave a gap of misunderstanding uncovered. Nur

Nomads How much of the American-Ethiopian- TFG Counter Insurgency script is working in Somalia? Nur

Jazaakallahu Kheiran akhi Cawaale for the reminder, and may Allah accept our ibaadah, amin. Nur

"Power in defense of freedom is greater than power on behalf of tyranny and oppression." ---------Malcolm X. The Middle East's Master Pimp By Yvonne Ridley December 27, 2009 "ICH" Cairo - December 26, 2009 -- The activities of the rent boys who parade up and down Al-Shawarby Street in Cairo provide a good metaphor for the relationship the Egyptian Government has with Israel and the US. Both are quite shameless and ruthless; prepared to do whatever it takes to please ... in order to secure a fistful of dollars. But at least the man whores of Al Shawarby are honest about their trade as they eagerly hustle potential customers. Yes, they are shameless but so is the Egyptian Government as it continues to enforce the brutal siege in Gaza for Israel's pleasure and America's dollars. The tears it sheds for the besieged people of Gaza are crocodilian. And today the government stands before its people completely naked, without honour as the last fig leaf of decency floats despairingly to the ground. I am making this rather crude analogy as I sit in my hotel room over-looking the River Nile. The view is breath-taking and just 50 yards away is the Egyptian Museum which reveals a rich history of a once great country. The buildings around are decrepit, rundown like much of the country. But I haven't sat down to give you a travel report. I am one of 1400 peace activists from across the world who is trapped in Cairo unable to move forward to take part in the Gaza Freedom March planned for New Year's Day. Most of us answered the rallying call of the US peace activist group Code Pink. Meanwhile another shameful drama is unfolding just a few hundred miles away as life-long Palestinian supporter George Galloway sits trapped in the port of Aqaba as his latest Viva Palestina convoy has been stopped from moving forward. The British MP's convoy of 250 vehicles and hundreds more supporters has been prevented from leaving Jordan with its much needed aid. Why? Because America and Israel have told Egypt not to let a single vehicle or peace activist pass through its country to the Rafah border and in to Gaza where an entire population is suffering beyond belief and, it seems, beyond humanitarian relief. So why doesn't Egypt tell Washington and Tel Aviv to get stuffed? For exactly the same reason a rent boy will do as his master tells him ... hard cash. Proof? Exactly two years ago under the Bush Administration, both houses of US Congress agreed to withhold 100 million dollars in financial assistance to Egypt following Israeli claims that Egyptian authorities were failing to prevent weapons smuggling to the Gaza Strip. Egypt receives nearly two billion dollars in US aid making it the second largest recipient of US largesse after Israel, which receives three billion dollars a year in military assistance. And now the Middle East's most active rent boy has a new master pimp - Barack Obama - although his White House enforcers have made sure the same house rules apply. Now while the Egyptian Government might bend over backwards - or just bend over - the real enforcers will find Viva Palestina and the Gaza Freedom Marchers far less compliant. We have traveled from more than 40 different countries to Cairo while others have driven thousands of miles to Aqaba to show our solidarity to the people of Gaza - we represent the largest gathering of international solidarity activists in the history of the Middle East. Using the pretext of escalating tensions on the Gaza-Egypt border, the Egyptian Foreign Ministry said that the Rafah border will be closed over the coming weeks. Our message to the politicians is crystal clear: "Let us enter Gaza and let the Gaza Freedom March proceed." Quite simply, you can not buy us. Integrity, freedom and our love for Gaza is not for sale at any price. Egyptian Security goons have already used fear and intimidation on the management of the venues the Gaza Freedom Marchers have booked, as well as transport companies who contracted buses to carry us from Cairo to Gaza, with the result that these deals have been cancelled. Egyptian Security even tried to pressurise the management of the Groppi coffee shop on Midan Talaat Harb to shut down while we were organising meetings. Despite warning us that more than six people can not gather in public places our meeting continued. We will not bow to fear and intimidation but what we will do is increase the pressure on the Rent Boy Government and where injustice is the law resistance is our duty. And as Malcolm X once said: "Power in defense of freedom is greater than power on behalf of tyranny and oppression." *British journalist Yvonne Ridley is travelling with Indy film-maker Warren Biggs making a documentary about the Gaza Freedom March. She is a founder member of Viva Palestina and a member of the RESPECT Party. She also presents the Rattansi & Ridley show and The Agenda for Press TV, as well as writes columns for newspapers across the world. Her website is <a href="http://www.yvonneridley.org">www.yvonneridley.org[/i]

Rudy bro. Sheban is a person who have earned the respect of many SOLers on these forum for his balanced and wise approach in the analysis of the events in Somalia. He has shown a genuine empathy for our problems and a willingness to lend advice of how to best resolve the problems from his own perspective. His take is as diverse as ours, and in this forum, he can add a healthy diversity of opinions. Sherban is a valued Christian guest to this page, and In Islam, Allah SWT teaches us to be generous to our guests and to offer them the best we have. Christians like Sherban have been praised in the Quraan for their sensitivity and caring approach for the human suffering that is going on in the world today. This Islam page welcomes Muslims, Christians and Jews,(Atheists not included) who I consider to be an estranged extended family ( Historical, that is) . We have common roots, common history and common prophets, as well as the belief in a common God. As such, his contribution to our Islam forum is very enriching and should never be seen as compromising of our beliefs. Nur

Raamsade writes: "Always?" You certainly didn't seem to believe that "always" when you posted this link while the wounds of the victims were still fresh: Horror at Fort Hood Inspires Horribly Predictable Islamophobia What led to your change of mind? For the benefit of doubt, I am going to assume that you have a problem mixing what I have said, with what you might have read elsewhere, which I disagree with like you. Its true that I have always believed that Muslims are safer in the USA than in their own countries in which USA is committing crimes against Humanity. For you to understand that I have previously believed the opposite, you would need a better caption of the thread, because, in that thread, I have never implied that I agree with the whole of articles that I post, so that will leave what I have written in that thread as your remaining caption, which is the only proof you can use to show that I have changed my mind. Here is what i have written on that thread: Islamophobia is feeding the 8 year unwarranted and unjust US war in Iraq and Afghanistan that claimed the lives of over a Million civilians after concocted 911 frame game. Islampohobia has since prompted the change of laws in the US to introduce unconstitutional measures of detentions of US citizens as "enemy Combatants" torture and unlawful intrusion of citizen's privacy, all justified as measures to fight what is called "Terrorism" aka PHOBIA of ISLAM! Meaning: Islamophobia in AMERICA IS TAKING A TOLL ON MUSLIMS WHO LIVE IN AFGHANISTAN I have never INSINUATED ANYWHERE, including when I mentioned the targeting of US Citizens PRIVACY, that, ISLAMOPHOBIA WILL TAKE A DEADLY TOLL ON MUSLIMS IN AMERICA Nur

Naden sis writes: Flowery language and chest-thumping religious sentiment (by the curiously safe and well-fed) trump your IDPs and their sob stories Sister, Intellectuals talk about ideas, street people talk about events, but talking about people who are discussing ideas is really a low point, I have not known you as such. Please talk about the content. Nur

>>>>>>>>>But I want to remind you: that you can lock up a mouse or a man but you can't lock up an idea. ----Tommy Douglas.

The Christmas Video The Government Condemned. The Uncut Version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW53ACIg7A0&feature=player_embedded# Nur

Paragon Weerar kama dambeys ah ayaa Nur lagu hayyaa, Wallee. Isaguna weli dhufayskii ka bixi diid. Allow sahal umuuraha. Wallee Paragonow waad iga qoslisay, laakin anigu sidaa uma arko, waxaan u arkaa iney tahay " Friendly Fire" . Marka laga reebo kuwa aan Islaamka jecleyn, inteenna kale oo Islaamka jecel waxaan isku heysannaa waa sida xikmadda leh ee muraadka Islaamka lagu gaadho, xataa haddey ila heleen xabbad ama hoobiye, dakano uma qabo raggaas, rag uu ugu horreeyo walaalkey Xiin, maxaa yeelay waxaan dhab ahaan u rumeysnahay iney Allah jecel yihiin. Miyaadan maqal Allah inuu Quraanka kaga warramay Ahlul Jannah: " Wa nazacnaa maa fiii suduurihim min ghillin, ikhwaanan calaa sururin mutaqaabiliin" Macneheedu yahay " Waannu ka saarnay wixii dakana ahaa oo laabtooda ku jiriy, oon ka yeellay walaalo (isjecel) is lafadhiya fadhi iska soo horjeeda" Nur