Nomads This was a piece I have written two years ago on this page, my assumptions seem to hold true to this day, if you have a different view, please share. " Injustice anywhere, is a threat to Justice everywhere " wrote Martin Luther King. Nur

Viking bro. You ask Originally posted by Viking: Very important issue you took up bro Nur. Often, when we say Iyaaka Nacbud wa Iyaaka Nastaciin , some other thoughts are running through our minds. We could be thinking about i.e. what one is going to eat later etc (is that what we are pledging to?). Walaal, I read a Hadeeth that actually gave credit to our attention span during a prayer, depending on how alert we are to we are saying, we earn a fraction of reward for our prayer. A half, 1/4 and even 1/10 reward and at times, we earn punishment for using the Prayer time as a daydreaming session that we can not do it at work or in class. Imagine being invited by an important person, how much disrespect is it not looking them in the eye and addressing them with a focused mind? Nur

Viking Bro. you write: Nur, They are not infallible. I agree with your logic bro, but do you think that the research you have done is more than what the scholars of Al-Azhar have done from 1959 and beyond? Don't you think that they went deeper into Shi'a doctrines than you did? Some Muslims (belonging to the four madhabs) view Sufis as heretics while others don't, isn't it simply the same case here too? Walaal, We need to agree on a criteria by which we can give credibility to an opinion i.e.: 1. Years of research 2. Relevence of research to specific topic 3. objectivity, fairness and context of reserach If you say, objectivity, for example, then, should we rely on: 1. Our own ideas 2. Other scholars ideas 3. A firm neutral source, like Quraan and Sunnah as a benchmark? The latter makes sense i guess. So, my research was focused on the Shia scholars reliable Major books, heavyweights like Kuleiny, if the Shia deiscard these books, Shia is no more we will all be one nation. Then I explained what Ilaah, ibaadah , and Imaam means. Then I made the connection, showing how they deviated. Now, being an honest brother, when you view how I clarified my case, clearly, and how unknown it is to you the mesthod and motives and independence of Al Azhar's Sheikh had for their fatwa ( Unlike Shia ulema who are independent from government by taking the Khums from faithfulo), what are you inclined to believe? If Al Azhar tells you that the Kaaba will be moved yo Mogadishu, would it matter how much research they made? or their fame? remember the story of Ukhdud was driven by a young boy who dared to say what the then ulema derd not say, he was the reason many people converted to islam, and also the Asxaabul Kahf, and aslo Prophet Ibrahim, the establishment of religion should be closely watched by all Muslims, with a criteria, Quraan and Sunnah. You write: We are all responsible for the choices we make in the end but we (people of SOL) aren't scholars and rely a lot of the research done by them. What we aim for in the end is to find out the truth . Walaal, What credential do you require for someone to be called a scholar? Is there a scholar who does not rely on other scholars previous work? Yes walaal, we all aim at truth, thats why we should think out of the box. Nur

From the e-Nuri Archives Just Doing It Aint Enough! As we have performed another prayer today, ( depending on your location on the globe ) I want to discuss the last file that we Muslims have sent to the heavens in our last prayer, or the last good deed folder transmitted. Every time we pray, we read the Fatiha in which we make the following statements: 1. Thee alone do we serve (ibadah) 2. From thee alone do we seek help ( in order to serve you ) As reported by the Prophet SAWS, our prayers are not automatically accepted, they go through an appraisal process in which a checklist of requirements are cross examined and as a result a percentage of our prayers are accepted. For some people a quarter of the prayer is accepted yet for others a tenth and so on.. My concern in this thread is that most people that I know, including myself, feel relieved that we have prayed, but little do we worry about the final grade on the file that goes up for evaluation at the end of the day on the state of our prayers. Now let us look into some of the metrics that matter in the acceptability of our prayers. 1. Understanding what we say 2. Believing what we say 3. Meaning what we say. For an exercise, let us apply the first verse above on the three metrics above. When we pray, do we understand what IBAADAH means? because a failure in the understanding of the meaning of Ibaadah, can manisfest itself negatively in our lives. For example we may say this word while in effect we are serving other than Allah and are in a clear Shirk situation. So when we do not understand the meaning of Ibaadah, we may not be consistent in making it exclusively for Allah, in reality sometime, we may do it for Allah, other times, we may be doing it for others without being aware that we are stretching the truth in our prayers. When we pray are we convinced that we are in reality making Ibaadah for Allah, or do we know that we are in reality making Ibaadah to others, but conveniently say the prayer as a habit. in other words do we really mean what we say. Another point to think about is: are we serving Allah, making ibaadah in our Prayer only, or are we in Ibaadah 24 hours a day, 365.25 days in the year? The meaning of "thee do we worship" according to Quraan and Sunnah is that we are meant to be in a continuous state of Ibaadah, from the time our intelligence software is loaded in our mind up until when we are broken down to our original components. In that sense, anything we do that does not conflict with Allah's commandments can be an ibaadah if so we make our intention( you could be jogging in the park and still be in ibaadah if you make dhiker while running". The prayer, fasting and Hajj are called (Shacaa 'ir_ Tacabudiyah) meaning, symbols of Ibaadah, NOT THE IBAADAH itself. So, you can visualize your prayer as the envelope that bundles a periodic amount of Ibaadah work to be delivered to Allah when you say ( Iyyaaka Nacbud, thee alone do we serve) . Because in the course of the day, everything you do is being recorded to see if you are indeed telling the truth when you say ( Thee alone do we serve) . If what you do the rest of the day are NOT representative of what is approved by Allah SWT, and NOT formatted according to the protocol the prophet SAWS has standardized called Sunnah, chances are that your communication with Allah will be rejected outright for not meeting the goal of ( Ikhlaas) and the Protocol of ( Sunnah) for the acceptance of any deed. So do not just transmit to heaven an empty Datagram (envelope) for a lifetime and expect that you have a good bank account waiting for you after you die. Allah says ( Wa an leysa lil insaani, illaa maa sacaa, wa anna sacyahu sowfa yuraa) .... Meaning, ( Mankind has nothing in store except for his efforts, and his efforts shall be duly appraised) Also, if your envelope ( Prayer) is full of good deeds with ( Ikhlaas) , but not formatted according to the Sunnah protocol, again, your work may not be graded, because, the grading procedure calls for and invokes specific fields, if not found, the entire good deed document is discarded. Which makes it imperative that you make your prayers Sunnah compliant. Moral of this right up, there are two things we need to pay attention to when uploading a file. 1. Doing the right thing ( Ikhlaas) 2. Doing things right ( Sunnah) If the above two conditions are met Your file will be transferred and graded. If not, you may have to redo the process, but before you die. Nur e-Nuri Communications Old Editions Connecting People To Their Creator

Viking bro. You write: Nur, Do you think that the head scholar of Al-Azhar erred when a fatwa was announced in 1959 (which is unchanged till today) saying that it is allowed for a Muslim to be a follower of the Ja'fari madhab (Ithna Cashariyyah/Shi'a al-Cimaamiyah) ? Do you think that Sheikh Maxmud Shaltoot and all those who came after him are in the wrong? Answer, Brother, We Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah believe that our scholars are not devine, thus prone to make a mistake of judgement, as a control for this risk, we depend on the Quraan and the Sunnah as a check, if the scholar can defend his fatwa accordin g to a daleel from Quraan, we accept, if he cant, we simply dont, and that is the major difference between Sunnah and Shia in a nutshel. I have clearly showed from Shia literature what they believe, to the page number , author and book, brother Viking, If indeed thesed beliefs are found to be true in the Shia Madhab, do you think with your understanding of Islam that it can be a fourth Madhab? or part of Islam? kindly waiting for your response Ngonge bro. If you acn patiently read the entire article and all the responses ( it requires to have full time commitment like a real job ) This thread can make a lot of sense, not confusion, but if you just skim through it, I am sure that it will confuse any reasonable browser. Nur

Dear OG Girl You write: Nur, for last time let me trust you and pretend that your intentions are good ..lol. I think we are getting some where!! Thanks my dear sister, I pray that Allah guides us all the right path, amin You write: These people are dead but they lefta lot of mess' ignorent people or people with agenda to sing around!!. Agreed! so let us sort out the mess, with cool heads. You writer So tell me which sardab we made up our Al-kafi? Are our scholers prostitutes to hide in the sardabs?I don't understand your logic brother. According to the Shia ithna asheria Madhab, which you said you belong to,the last of the 12 Imaams, Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al Askari . is said to have disappeared at age 4, he is said to have fell in a ditch ( sirdaab ) which to this date is visited by Shia in a mosque in IRAQ, it is a holy place and thus a MAZAR where the faithfuls prayers are answered by the missing Imaam, the little boy Imaam, was not seen after that, but two scholars began acting as the agents who transmit orders frome the absent boy Imaam for the next 65 years, the majority of the Shia hadeeths to this date are those transmitted thorugh the nissing boy imaam in whi acidentally fell in the ditch ( Sirdaab) . After 65 years, a final letter came in through onw of the scholars which read that the missing imaam had gone into the longer absence, and they should not believe in any more tranmissions from anyone ( More likely, the two scholars got older, and they did not want anyone else to play the role again ) He is expected to return as the Mahdi who will uphold justice on earth. You write: So tell me what about our Aqeedah? what you did not like it? Maybe you are just having a hard time to understand the context! Well maybe I could help you. Take a deep breath and start from ABC.... Here is a summary of the Shia aqeedah, the sources are in my thread, all from Shia books: Highlights of the Beliefs ( Aqaa'ed) of Shia Ithna Asheriyah. 1. The Imam is the Lord who dwells on earth. It was reported that Ali RAA said " I am the Rabb ( Lord) who dwells on earth " source; Mir'aatul Anwaar wa mishkaatul Asraar, page 59 The Shia Sheikh Al Ayaashi interpreting the verse " Wa laa yushriku fii xukmihi axadaa" " He does not share his authority (judgement) with anyone" Ayaashi says, it means that no one should share the Caliphate with Ali. 2. Fatima and Ali Reason Of Creation : A contemporary Shia Scholar in Sheikh Hussein Feheid Al Ahsaa'ey, says " Ali RAA is the face of Allah SWT" he also says Allah said " O Mohammad, if it was not for you, I would not have created the universe, and if it was not for Ali I would not have created you, and if it was not for Fatima, I would not have created both of you" 3. Affairs of Present Life on Earth and the Hereafter are in the hands of the Imaam . Source Al Kuleiny, Section, that Earth belongs to the Imaam, page 407 -410 4. Natural phenomena like Thunder and lightening belongs to the Imaams . It was reported that Samacah Min Mehran that he said that " I was Abi Abdallah, then the sky thundered,, thenAbi Abdallah said, it is Ali ordering it " Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 33 5. Extraordinary powers of Ali RAA : It was reported that Ali RAA used to Rideclouds. A concept all Shia sects share, Biharul Anwar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 34. Also Ali is reported saying " I am the eye of Allah on earth, I am the Light of Allkah that is never exitinguished, I am the proof of Allah against servants" 6. The Imaam holds the keys to the Unknown ( Al Ghaib) Source Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Voulme 1 page 258, Section titled " The Imaams know when they die, and they never die without their consent" 7. Imaams know what was and would happen in the future and nothing is hidden from them Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Volume 1 page 260 8. It was reported (Falsly) that Al Saadiq said " Wallahi we (imams) are given the knowledge of the ancients and the future generations, he was asked " Do you have access to the unknown? the imaam responded " we know what everyman and woman will beget as decendants" Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 26 page 27 - 28 9. Allah reveals revelations after the death of prophet Muhammad on the Imaams via angel Gabriel . The Imam Muhammad Al Saffar ( Died 290 AH) says " An angel even greater and more knowledgeable than gabriel comes down with revelations to the Imaams" also see source Asxaabul Imaam Al Macsuum, page 111 10. ALI Talks To Allah : Al Saffar also reported in the Basaa'er Al darajaat Al Kubraa in ten volume proofs of the continuity of revelations on Shia Imaams, Ali Talked to Allah SWT. That he saw Gabriel, Ten stories volume 8, section 16 page 430. 11. Al Saffar also reports : It was reported that Humran ibn Acyun reported from Abu Abdullah Aleyhi Salaam, " I said, O Imaam, I heard that Ali Talked to Allah Aleyhi Salaam " The imaam said " Yes indeed, they talked in Taif Gabriel came down in their middle" Source Basa'r Al Darajaat, Section 8-16, page 430, Printed in Iran 12. Al Saffar alos reports in 13 reports that the Holy spirit ( Ruuxul Qudus) comes down on the imaams, the imaam said " We are increased knowledge at night, because if we did not have revealtions, our knwledge would run out" source Basaa'er ul Darajaat, Section 7, volume, 15. page 252 13. Angel Gabriel, JIBREEL, is with Imaams always : Kuleiny explaing a verse " And thus do we reveal to you a spirit form on authority" Kuleiny said the Imaam said " since Gabriel came down, he never left, he is with us imaams" Source Kuleiny Al Kaafi, Volume 1 page 173 13. Angels come down on earth on the night of power to tell the Imaams about the Qader and all that would happen the following year. Sources Al Kafi , Kuleiny Volume 1 page 261 and Al Fusuul al Muhimmah fii usuul al a'immah, Volume 94 page 145. 14. Divine Light penetrated Ali. Source Al Kafi by Kuleiny Volume 1 page 440 15. The Imams are shown our deeds avery day and night Source Al Kafi, Kuleiny Volume 1 page 219 Most of the above beliefs were developed during the shorter absence of the Mahdi, Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al Askari, who we have mentioned briefly before although many fundemental changes that represent a departure from the original beliefs of Muslims were attributed to him through his handlers who claim that they had an access to this disappearing Imaam for an enduring 65 years. Let us look at the belief of the Shia about this imaam. Waiting for your kind response. Nur

Dear Sister OG All of the Sunnah who live today know of the fitnah that happened during Ali and Muaawiyah, given all the facts we know today, I have yet to meet a Sunni who would not have supported Ali in that quarrel, Ali was right, may Allah forgive Muaawuyah who was a great Companion otherwise, who conquered many lands for Islam and was one of the earliest who memorized Quraan, although there was recorded violations by his successors agianst the al al beit, th Ummah, loved the al al beit and sympthized with their plight, The Prophet SAWS taught us not to get involved with the problems that happened with his companions, so, according to that Hadeeth, we do not say much about what had happened in that Fitnah except that Ali was right, and Muaawiyah was wrong. Allah says " These people have passed away, they will expect to get what they had rightfully earned and they will be punished for what they have erred, and you wll not be asked what they had done " so if you belive in that verse, we should look forward not backward. It is also true that that the form of Califate changed to a non Islamic form of governance, namely Kingdom, again, although all Sunnis live under these rules, we all know it is not the right Caliphate, and we are all striving to bring about the right governance in an ordely way without causing more evil and mischief on earth while we ar seeking to do good, you would agree with me that the worst days of Siyad Barre of Somalia to be far better than the best days of our Anarchist warlords. Now that politics is out of the way, the question remains, where did greates Shia scholar Kuleiny who wrote the Kaafi got his teachings? More likely, the Sirdaab ( a hole in the ground where the little 4 year old imaam Saadiq al Mahdi fell in) and for the next 65 years, that Imaam was transmitting Hadeeths from that hole ( Al Ghayba al sughraa ) through two men, who are the only authorized transmitters of hadeeths from the absent Imaams Askari. The problem is not politics, we agree Ali should have been the imaam, even if you want to push for Abubakers place, that is negotiable, but to change the aqeedah, that is not right, my dear sister, so please read my post again preferably with a cool head and kindly tell me were I went wrong, you owe me an advice if I am wrong, أنا لست دكتاتور Nur

OG Girl writes: " Rez, Sorry brother,you mistranslated my words, what I said was "No, I did not mean that, what I meant is " convenced". I did not convence the Sunni way as they like to call "themselvess"*.. The whole thing (Shia and Sunna" is political rather than religion . Our dear Shia Sister on SOL wrote this too before: Other thing sister, give me hadeth we both agree because I am not Sunnah. We rejected sahiih al sitah . Salam Summary: OG Girl Says: Shia Sunni Difference is Politics OG Girl Says: Shia Do not Accept Hadeeth Source of Sunnah Therefore............ the reader makes conclusion here. Its this type of lojic that has derailed many great discusiions on these boards. Nur

Dear Blessed and other caring Nomads We are living in a rapidly changing point in history , an inflection point in which Islam is in focus, as I have posted, all of your talents and abilities are needed to contribute to thew edvancement of our great faith Islam in our communities, at home or abroad. Education, which is the foundry in which young minds are crafted for the future is in dire need for new volunteers, who can take our people a step or two further from where our parents have brought us along, knowing that our parents did not face the challenges that we face today. Nations, are all competeing in this day and age for recognition, so we may know each other, we should prepare our future generation to be known to become as highly moral, skilful, respectful and with TAQWA ( Their good actions driven for the sake of Allah SWT ), since its with TAQWA that makes all of other achievements acceptable to Allah SWT. Today, we are living with the consequences of lack of proper Islamic education, our present political leaders ( handpicked for us by her Her Majesty Condi Rice and the Free Anarchist World led by Cag Bakeyle and George Bush)) are a testament of how ruthless, vicious, ignorant, materialist, dishonest, our people can be when proper Islamic eduaction is not instilled at early age. By making more babies without proper eduaction and Islamic morals, we will assure the continuation of the present leadership of Cag Bakayle Anarchists and Company. Changing the course of events in Somalia is not done with a microwave oven, it is a slow process that can take as long as 30 years or more, when the first patch of Eduacational products ( Graduates, who become civil servants ) assume public office ( By which time most Nomads reading this post are either gone or are in the care of those they educated ). The first step for such a change is to share your thoughts on this thread in a coherent and structured way, we should address the issue of Education in our communities and our homeland from several contexts: 1. Islamic Content Integrated Curriculum 2. Methodology: a. Instilling an Islamic Personality, pride in our faith, social responsibility, Islamic values, respect for others and their opinions) b. Integrated method, project based learning, field trips, lots of reading, critical thinking, anlysis and decision making strategies, and descipline to walk the talk. 3. Resources needed 4. Volunteerism 5. Homeschooling Support Groups 6. Leveraging the Internet, Distance Learning 7. Training The Instructers. This froum is open for all Nomads, all professions, since alll of them can contribute valuable advice for this thread, specially, if you can invite Nomads with education or traning background to share their thoughts, it would be very valuable. Nur 2005 e-Nuri Eduaction. We Attack Problems, Not People

Rendevous Walaalo You asked: 1. .....Where were Shias when Prophet Mohamed(s.a.w)was there..Alive and kicking..I think he would categorically have answered some of their questions...? Answer: There was no such thing as Shia during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah, there was no place for the soon to come 12 Imaams the last of which would be the Mahdi according to their latent inventions. 2.....are Shia Imaams more 'holier' that our prophet(s.a.w)..Why would they stay away from This world Like in 'Mahdis'..for so long that even our Prophet Mohamed couldn't? Answer: No they are not hollier than our Prophet SAWS, but, if you read their literature like I did extensively when I was preparing this thread, you would find that Ali, Hussein and the Imaams to take the center stage in their faith, not the Prophet like us Sunnah wal jamaacha mainstream. 3......Why are they refuting the Holy quraan..I think they didn't refute the Holy Quraan when The Holy prophet was there...Why now...? Answer: Since their faith revolves around the Imaams, they claim that the companions conspired against them by removing all verses that show the importance of their 12 Imaams. 4....Why has Shia..never spread more than IRAN and some parts of India..Sunnis have spread more than them by far..It has bypassed Indonesia..Malaysia and Philipines..Does this show the spread of Truth over false...?I am sure 'TRUTH' spread by far.. Answer: The spread of the Shia was limited by the level of knowledge available to majority Sunnah wal Jamaacah, they have only attracted mostly ignorant non Arabic speaking in territories oustised the reach of the Khalifate. 5....What kind of books do they ascribe to if they don't accept The Holy Quraan..?Do they have a different Quraan...?why didn't they say so when The prophet Mohamed was there... Answer Please read the thread again, I have listed their main scholars and books and concepts. 6....Why do they classify the Sahabas as..Good and adversaries..when Sahabas were one united group during prophet's time...?Why now? Answer The fish in murky waters. 7....Even if they are given the authority to Lead ISLAM...as they say they would have liked...would they still change the Holy Quraan and Hadeeth...I think they would have left it compact and same...And what about the prayers..why do they pray differently...?Why didn't they pray like so...when The prophet was there... Answer: According to their Imaams, they would probably change the Quraan and unearth Fatimas Quraan and other scriptures at the right time, which has not yet arrived, till then, their faithful are taught touse present Quraan. 8....Why did the birth place of the Holy Prophet never had many Shias..I mean(MAKKAH)..It was infact supposed to be the 'Centre' of Shia if I am not wrong...Why IRAN...now?If they claim anything to the Ahlul..bait.. Answer: Like I said, Ali, Hussein and Fatima are the center of the Shia faith, not the Prophet, hence, Karbala, is their holy shrine, where they have let Hussein down when he counted on them against Mouaawiyahs forces. Read Nahjul Balaagha how bad Ali talks about His "Followers" as they claim. 10.....^^^^^My question above...did this have a relation with Christianity/Judaism which started in Jerusalem...and now controlled from The Vatican...(ROMAN EMPIRE)..Christians have no option but to accept orders from The Vatican..did we refuse orders from IRAN(PERSIAN EMPIRE) and continued with the Truth...? Answer: There are parallels, both Christianity and Shiism share similar features: 1. Infallibility of Pope and Imaam 2. 12 Desciples and 12 Imaams 3. Worshipping a wronged person ( Jesus, Hussein) 4. Changing the course of a religion 5. Warship of idols ( Christians) and Mazaar ( Shia) 6. Mary for Christians, Fatima for Shia. 7. They both identify with pain and suffering Thats is from the top of my mind today, 11......was there some kind of political parties after The prophet's death...Which party was Shia..Did they lose the Elections... Answer: None. 12...Now what problems do they have with Sunnis..Why do they hate Sunnis..What brought about this disunity in ISLAM.... Answer 13....Could this be a plan to 'finish' ISLAM which didn't work fine...? Answer: All the fingerprints of such a plan are written over it. Remember how they conspired with the Mongols to bring the khalifate down? and their current role. 14...Why are they coming back to the fold of ISLAM now after 1200 Years later...?if they didn't prove themselves wrong.. Answer: Because many Shia have finally found their lost faith and brothers. Nur

WOL Walaalo, You write: I have a question Alhamdullilah I am a muslim but I still have a problem accepting the thought of the convenant.Or should I say it is because I do not remember the convenant.Are there any signs or how are we supposed to respond to this statement of Allah as He said it happened.Do we just agree with it like the things of ghaib. As we are not knowledgable and say We hear and obey? I remember once discussing this in my early years but I have forgotten the answer I was given. Dear Sis. The covenenat like any other Aqedah concept is passed to us in the Quraan by Allah SWT through His Messneger Muhammad SAWS is an unseen (unheard) GHAIB issue, Allah is telling us that it happened in the Quraan, just like how your parents tell you what you did when you were a toddler that you cannot believe, because your memory just outgrew it. But, this incident has many powerful qualifiers in the Sunnah, like the Hadeeths which you have read. The gist of this concept is that Allah SWT programmed this covenant subliminally in our subconscious ( Just like how the TV programmes public opinion subliminally ). It delivers a powerful message, that Allah SWT programmed TAWHEED in all of mankind, which is like a COOKIE, imbedded in their subconscious that recognizes the message of any Prophet, which confirms the delivery of a message from Allah to a person who had the default Tawheed COOKIE in his subconscious, thus, if that person follows his imbedded fitrah, he/she is saved, otherwise, they have no excuse in blaming their forefathers in leading them astray from the path of Allah. " And recall a time when ( Allah took a covenenant with the progeny of Adam), asking them; "Am I not your LORD"? They responded, "Yes indeed" Allah explains the reason He took this covenant from unborn souls was to warn them not to use Two excuses: 1. Ignorance of the Tawheed 2. Being led astray by parents and forefathers who changed the message of the Prophets. That eaves us with the question: Then, what is the importance of Prophets? Answer: To re-enforce that previous covenant, the COOKIE, so the minute you hear about it, its the second warning. Wallahu Aclam: Nur

I guess it is Melbourne? I wish Somalis took advantage of other natural occuring attractions better than Qaat such as the prestine great barrier reef, a dive or two in these great waters can give a better uplift than a ton of Qaat. is the summer time in December as I was told?

OG Girl Salaams sister You wrote: I think I'm the only one here at SOL who is openly a Shia Sister, You also wrote: I know what I believe, if you are looking for answers go read Shia books Based on those two statements, and the fact that you are free thinking person as you said, could you please explain how much of the Shia literature books and their aqeedah statements do you question, because I listed quite a lot of Shia concepts from Shia genuine books for the audience. Nur

Nafisa sis No harm done sis, you have nothing to apologise for, as long as our intentions are for Allah alone, no harm. Rahima sis (Eucaliptus)Is that the scientific name for the Qaat? the same tree the Koala's munch on trees in Australia and New Zealand? I saw this name in natural healing literaure, I hope it not the same though, I hate to see Somalis find a new health application in chewing on Qaat. Bint Abu Saeed Jazaakellahu Khairan for the abundant resources you have linked, I guess the room is quiet because Nomads are busy reading theses links, may Allah guide the lost among us, amin. Nur

WOL sis These verses confirm the fact that humans are born with an innate instinct ( Fitrah) of good and evil. " Evil" the Messneger SAWS said, is what your soul finds to be ugly, abominable or bad, and that you hate others to find out. So, the verse settles that we are no angels, however, we can be better than angels if, we purify our souls, while we become worse than animals if we taint our sould with the filth of sins. As a result of the evil joy ride, people become drunk with grandeur, supremacy and exhibit defiance to that innate instinct of good, and they choose evil, to the point that they feel comfortable with the evil, at which point, their perception becomes clouded by their evil. Nur

Sakina sis OK, let us discuss on your terms, but do us a favor, when you tell us about the Sheikhs history, tell us who wrote the history,their Madhab, and also their references. Then, as we proceed, tell us how the Sheikhs aqeedah was changed by his mentors and affected by his allegiances like you implied. Afterwards tell us about the right aqeedah of ahlul Sunnah wal jamaacah, and how the Sheikh deviated from the way of the Prophet SAWS, the platform is yours, and I am all ears. Nafisa sis Like sitster Rahima said, the Rules made for the sight by the founders were designed to allow free flow of thought as long as it does not conflict with our faith. Many debators have discussed on the edge of this rule, but, if you were in my shoes, you would feel that it is difficult to be a debator and a moderator at the same time. I focus on issues of aqeedah the most, and that why I invited Sakina, to correct Aqeedah, everything else is negotiable. Papamaine bro. you write: Nur, I hope you will lay out your views about Mohamed ibn Abdul-Wahab and his book Kitaab Al-Tawheed. and respond to various accusations of his critcs InshAllah brother, as soon as Sakina presents his History according to her sources and his views which she claims to be in conflict with the Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamaacah mainstream principles. Rahima sis Taxiyyatan mina Allah, Mubaarakatan Tayyibah, Salaams, sis, How are the Somali Koalas? Nur

Viking Bro. Thanks for the two hadeeths, by concoction I meant the story built around these Hadeeths and others always leads to one conclusion: The Companions collectively conspired agianst Aalal beit and denied them the leadership they rightfully owned . Which is the DARK HISTORY Sakina has referred to in her rebuttal, Whenever a dispute like this happens, and historical accounts conflict, Allah instructs us to go back to square one: Quraan, and Hadeeth, well, the Shia do not accept none of the Hadeeths of the Sunnah, but they accept Kuleiny and company, for that reason I posted their beliefs ( I am Shia too ) to show Nomads how far they have drifted from the simple teachings of Tawheed, that none but Allah is ilaah, who knows the Gheib, and disposes affairs of humans. Brother, I took a lot of pains talking very kindly with Sakina, I genuinely was hoping that we can discuss a structured discussion about Sheikh Muahammad Ibn Abdul Wahaab, I was very concilatory, and I went out of may way to address her the best way I know, but, the sister and whoever is fueling her anger, kept on diverting the issue to Salafi/Wahaabi issue, two names I deny belonging to loudly, her last post though was pivotal, it was taunting, after I have let bygones be bygones, and after i have even apologised for things I have not said, she comes back with old greivances that I figuratively apologised for the sake of resolving dispute and not that I was guuilty of it. If you read the last part of my reply, I aksed her if she belives in MUTA?.... The next Question IF YES, big IF,,, then...... If her first answer was that she did not believe in Shia concepts as accurate accounts according to her own words, then the second part does not apply on her at all. Imagine filling an application in which you are asked are you Somali? if yes are you a woman? once you check NO, then, the second question is immaterial. Somalis say " boohinta orgiga ka weyn" Mudantii Haweenka Maya walaalo, Waxbarashada Uni. waa ii dhammatay mar hore, waxaan wax ka bartaa Kutubta iyo Mashaayikhda. Nur

Haddad Bro. This is a good topic for discussion. The Usage of Descriptive Names of Allah ( Asmaa ul Husnaa) There are three categories of Names of Allah from the Asma-ul Husnaa. 1. Prohibited Names: Special Names of Allah SWT: Like Allah, Rahman, Khaliq, Bari, Qayum, in general any name that is not applicable ti humans. 2. Names that can be used with but without the preficx AL: Kareem, Al Xayy, (The Living), Wahaab, Qawy ( strong). 3. Names that can be used with the descriptive AL, like Al Mumin, Al Caziz, etc. I placed Wahhab in the second category, as it means giver of gift, so a person can be a giver of gift but can not be THE Giver of Gift. That was an over simplification, but the topic is amajor area of study by the Linguists in Islamic Studies, let us hear other Nomads take on this. Wallahu Aclam Nur

Nomads, This was an earlire debate between me and other Nomads on the Issue of Shia Sunni, which has spawned many other threads about what Sakina termed Salafi/Ahlul Sunnah. Sakina, thinks that the Shia concept is pretty accurate according to her words, and that our Sunni History is dark, etc. I have ereposted this thread to put issues in perspective, let us see, who is far from the Tawheed? Nur

Sakina sis You you write: In Islam we don't have the "separation of church and state". If we are going to talk about religion that includes politcs too . Yes sister I agree to that fact. However Aqeedah does not mean religion, NIXLAH means religion, Aqeedah means concepts of the unseen, like Allah, akhira, angels, Qadar etc. While politics means running the daily affairs of mankind, in which we both believe it should be based on the revelation part of Fiqh al Mucaamalaat like marriage, BUYUUC, business transactions, etc. So, my request for discussing Aqeedah first meant to separate the problem you have with the Sheikh to a size we can bite one at a time, otherwise, the discussion will be incoherent like the last two. You write: In order to talk about Kitab Tawheed we have first to talk about the circumstances in which it was written. I don't know why you are avoiding in all threads to talk about historical facts . Sister, Allah said, if you disagree on an issue, then refer it to Allah SWT ( Quraan) and the Messenger ( Hadeeth ), why are you objecting to use those two sources to show where the Sheikh went wrong and that he is not part of Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah? You write: We are going to discuss this by referring to the two topics : what is salafiyyah? what do salafees believe and call to? I have no Idea, I am not a Salafi, I am a Muslim, let us discuss what Muslims believe. You ask Hamza Yussuf: a Shik or a Suufi I have never heard him speak on Radio, never seen him even on TV, never met him in person, but I read an article of his, quite interesting, but not enough to judge him. You ask: 1. Who founded the Saudi State Which one? You ask: 2. Who supported the slaughtering of the people of the Arabian Peninsula . Please tell me who? You write: 3. When did the Salafi started applying rule 8 and 9. The following of rule 8 and 9 did it became wajib after foundig the Saudi State or before that? I dont know, I am not Salafi, I am a Muslim. You write: Brother Nur I find it amusing that you are inviting me to a discussion when in the Shia/Sunni thread you accused me of "little knowledge" and "muta". What made you change your mind to make me at par with you ? Sister Sakina, let us visit the threads and see what you have written on these threads and what I have responded: Sakina Wrote: I am pleased to see that both sect sunnis and shias are finally debating. I am doing a research on almost all the schools of thoughts (Malikis, Hanifis, Hambalis, Shafi,Shias(several of them) and the Wahhabi/Salafis.) I found that most of the propaganda against the shias are coming from the Wahhabis. Wahhabis call themselves Salafis because people started asking questions about the Sheikh they follow Mohammed Ibn Abdullah Wahhab. Infact his own brother Ismail and father were against him. So he made an alliance with Saud and they took over all the Arabian Peninsula. My question to brother Nur is are you saying that all the islamic ummah were not following the sunnah till Ibn Abdullah came to save them in the late 1700th? I would also like to know if Imam Malik and Imam Hanifa thought that it was useful for them to study under Imam Sadiq clearly they consider him not only a muslim but a knowledgeable Alim. We might not consider him an Imam but we should respect his knowledge and status as did our own Imams Malik and Hanif. Therefore shiasm is another school of thought as are the Malikis, Hambalis, Shafis and Hanafis. I responded: No, my dear sister, I am not saying that. With all due respect, your question tells me that you have not done your research well, because if you read my post, you will not find a SINGLE reference to Ibn Abdullah. What I said in a nutshel is that 1. Shiism, has not been the same throughtout the ages. 3. The original Shia, ( Phase 1, and Two) where not even a Madhab, they were the core Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah, the support of Ali was the right thing to do at that time. 2. Present day Shiism represents a stark departure from the original teachings of the Imaams which was greatly affected by the ( Ghuluw) extremism of the Shia during the absence of their missing Imaam ( Al Ghaybatul Sughraa) 65 years of reporting from a missing Imaam, and ascribing all the stories to him. 5. If you read the summary of my work you can see the proof from your Shia books. I pray for your salvation and all other Shia brothers and sisters, Amin. Sakina responed: The Quran tells us not to be suspicious of each other. Only because I've decided to speak about the injustice done to our brothers/sisters shias you assume that I am a shia too. I follow the Quran and the sunna. We have to admit thought that there are a lot of unanswered questions about our past history. From my own research I came to the conclusion that some of our history is very dark as the shias claim and we have to face it and find an answer for it. I am going to ask you some questions that some shias posed to me and after doing my research and with my limited knowledge unfortunately I came to the conclusion they are pretty accurate. Maybe you can give me answers from our books such us Bukhari and Muslim and please I do not want to know what Ibn Tamiyya's opinion is we all know that. 1) What happened in "The dark Thursday" when our beloved Prophet (s.w.w) asked for pen and paper so he could dictate us something that would not divide us and Omar said that the Prophet (s.w.w.) was delirious do not give him anything (Hint look in Sahih Muslim) 2 ) What happend in Saqifa? Who was present there and how was the first Khalifa choosen? 3) Why Fatima bint Rasulullah was angry at the Khalifa and his supporters till the time she passed away? 4) Who was at the head of the first civil war between the muslim ummah the war of Jamal and who was at the head of that war? 5)How many times Abu Bakr fainted in his deathbed and yet he was allowed to write his will and was not called delirious? I have many more question but for now Insha Allah I'll wait for the reply for these ones. I am seriously trying to find the truth. Some of my family members decided to follow the Wahhabi/Salafi sect and they are not allowed to ask questions only blind following of the sect. Whenever I ask questions they tell me you are westernized or are you still following the Shafis? Therefore I am not surprise that people would call me a shia only because I want to verify if what they are telling is the truth or not. I responded: Sakina sis You Keep saying that your questions were not answered by Sunnis and Shia, so today i am going to answer your questions, I also have some questions for you, and I am kindly asking you to answer them if you would. you write: " From my own research I came to the conclusion that some of our history is very dark as the shias claim and we have to face it and find an answer for it " Answer: Please tell us about the sources of your research that helped you find out about the Dark Side of Sunnis and the Kufr of Abu Bakar, Omar, Othman and all the Sahaabah as the Shia claim? Was Abu Bakar so careless at the end of his life to pull a trick like that while the Prophet was still not burried like the Shia say? what would be his drivers? you cant say he loved money, or Power ( read his speech below)? Your Write: " I am going to ask you some questions that some shias posed to me and after doing my research and with my limited knowledge unfortunately I came to the conclusion they are pretty accurate . " Answer: Sister how can you verify the Shia claims in order to reach a solid concllusion that they are PRETTY ACCURATE if as you say YOU HAVE VERY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE, Can you explain this contradiction please? You ask. " you can give me answers from our books such us Bukhari and Muslim and please I do not want to know what Ibn Tamiyya's opinion is we all know that." Answer: Sister, Bukhari was a Hadeeth Collector, authenticator, and compiler, not a Historian, but if you are a researcher why are you refusing to accept Ibn Taimyya's account, dont you know that he was one of the major architects of the very term Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaach which you say you belong to? or in case you don't believe in him at all, please show us from his writings where he went wrong, that is the least you can do as a researcher and it is amaanah. So, how did you come to accept the Shia sources that are neither Muslim nor Bukhaari, since you only accept thoses sources, or are you suggesting that the only reliable sources are Kuleiny, Majlisi, and Khomeiny who are your Sheikhs?. You ask " 1) What happened in "The dark Thursday" when our beloved Prophet (s.w.w) asked for pen and paper so he could dictate us something that would not divide us and Omar said that the Prophet (s.w.w.) was delirious do not give him anything (Hint look in Sahih Muslim )" Answer: Sister, I couldn't agree with you more here, it was indeed a Dark Thursday , a concocted story created by the followers of a baby imaam who got lost falling in a ditch at age four, and for the next 65 years, three men were transmitting his teachings and revelations to the Shia faithful behind the Sirdaab, one of these stories being the Dark thursday which you believe in, I have never seen someone claiming to be Sunnah wal jamaaca believe in such a mockery of the faith. By adding a little of the Saxix Muslim with a bunch of fallacies from the Shia to create a case that teh Imaamah was stolen from Ali and ignoring the rich History of the companions and their legends is jumping the gun on the wrong target, The funny thing is that you even you believe that the Prophet asked for a pen and paper as if he has done it anytime in his lifetime! remember he was the illitrate prophet ? his miracle! when you belive in a lie, make sure it is consistent before you pose it to us, if you are a good researcher! You ask: " 2) What happend in Saqifa? Who was present there and how was the first Khalifa chosen ?" Answer: It is a rather long story, the gist of it was that the Ansar and Muhajirs disputed in the leadership of the Muslims, while Ali, Zubeir and Talha took a neutral position by not attending and staying in Fatimas house. Omar was told that the Ansaar were meeting in Saqiifa bani Sacida to elect Ubadah Ibn Samit who was ill and shivering covered up and sick, so, Omar so that there was many novice Muslims ( like me and you) who also want to have their say along with the veteran Companions like Abu Bakar and Umar. So, he was advised to move the convention to madina where the ansars requested to have a representative from them and a representative from the Muhajirs elected, however, Umar was quick to dispel this motion by simply puting his hand in Abu Bakar's hand and voting for Abu Bakar as the Amir of the believers, immediately all the Ansars and Muhajirs followed and the matter was concluded without any discord. From the Shia's most reliable book, Nahjul Balaagha, here is what the Shia say Ali said: " I was elected by the same people who have elected Abu bakar, Omar and Othman whith the same mandate as theirs, so neither does a present person has a right to elect nor an absent person have the right to reject (as the same committee elected me with the same mandate), because the Shuraa consultative election is for the Muhaajirs and the Ansaar, and they have unanimously elected a man and they named him an IMAAM, an action that pelased Allah SWT, so in case a person dissents their choice by a slander, or introduces a Bidcah, (innovation ) bring him back to his sense, if he refuses, fight him for his (crime) of following a different path than that of the believers" source ; Nahjul Balaagha, Volume 3, page 7 . You Ask: 3) Why Fatima bint Rasulullah was angry at the Khalifa and his supporters till the time she passed away? Answer: Fatima may Allah be pleased with her was upset with Abu Bakar because a dispute of the inheritance of the Prophets property, according to the Hadeeth (saxix) the Prophet SAWS said, " Naxnu macsharal Anbiyaa, laa nuwarrith " ( we the Prophets, are not to be inherited (possessions belong to the ummah ) but, the Aalal beit are supported by the public treasury which all the khulafa adgered to. You ask. 4) Who was at the head of the first civil war between the muslim ummah the war of Jamal and who was at the head of that war ? Answer: Now, I can sense that all of your questions are from the Shia sources, dont tell me you are not a Shia sis. We all know it was the Mother of believers in that Fitna, and she was on the wrong side of that dispute but unlike you, who preach thinking well of Muslims when it suits you, we the ahlul Sunnah think very highly about Aisha, we sya that she genuinely believed that she was on the right side, but she was not according to the Hadeeth of barking dogs, I hope that does not make you very angry, but we stop there as a respect to the mother of Believers which the Shia are quick to defame her as a demon, a virtuous woman the Prophet SAWS died in her lap and about whom the prophet SAWS told us, " take half our deen from this Xumeiraa ", so like the Shia we, The Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah do not have INFALLIBLE people if you are suggesting that Fatima was Infallible and Aisha was not. You ask: 5) How many times Abu Bakr fainted in his deathbed and yet he was allowed to write his will and was not called delirious ? Answer: I really did not count that, are you suggesting that anyone called the Prophet SAWS was delirious? please post the Muslim Hadeeth you are talking about, I cant take it for mere face value, this is serious business. You ask: I have many more question but for now Insha Allah I'll wait for the reply for these ones. I am seriously trying to find the truth . Answer: After asking me the toughest questions a Shia person can pose and asking cosmetic questions to Mutakallim, just to seem neutral, you claim to be looking for the truth, well sister, if indeed you are after the truth, read my post and tell me if you believe if the modern day Shia religion is like ours. You ask: " Some of my family members decided to follow the Wahhabi/Salafi sect and they are not allowed to ask questions only blind following of the sect." Answer: Is this a subliminal message to say you have an open mind and that you are on your way to convert to Shiism, so that you encourage other viewers to also follow your open mind example? let us see how open minded you are, do you believe in the Muta marriage of the Shia? if yes have you ever practiced it? As you can see Sakina, I never accused you of Muta, accusation means that I came forward to claim that you have married muta, instead I asked you an honest question after you have clearly admitted that you are questioning all of our Sunni past history, and after you've admitted that Shia account and story to be pretty accurate in your own words: Sakina Wrote: Quote:I am going to ask you some questions that some shias posed to me and after doing my research and with my limited knowledge unfortunately I came to the conclusion they are pretty accurate End Quote A statementy that explains about your "Knowledge" in your own words, and the Muta Marriage, a question you begged to be asked. Now, that is all for the record, and for all viewers to see, and judge, and its not I who brought it up, you did it sis. Nur

Sakina sis. Walaalo, thank you fro your elaboration on past posts, may I suggest that we structure this discussion so that we take a topic at a time, and not to discuss any other topic until we resolve the first. I will post my suggestion of how we should go about, if you accept, we shall begin our discussion, if you have other suggestion, please present it and I have no problem with your suggestions. My suggestion: 1. We have more in common than difference, let us not forget that. 2. We both want Islam as a faith to prevail 3. We want to address issues that face Muslims that are casuing problems for Muslims to meet their role of being Kheyru Ummah. 4. In that context, we find competing interpretation of the Aqeedah, and Fiqh of Islam 5. We both agree on Tawheed's importance, and that Allah is above all shgortcomings, Subxaanahu wa tacaalaa. 6. In light of the above, we examine Shaikh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahaab's principles and aqeedah in light of Quraan and Sunnah as a measure. 7. We separate aqeedah issues from Fiqh issues and political issues, we cover one at a time, in a neat way that we can all follow and respond to point by point. Now, that is my suggestion, and I respect your suggestion, once we agree on a structured format, inshaAllah we can discuss ina very fruitful way. Nur

Kheyr Bro. Jazaakallahu khairan for your well meant advice, and comments, like you've pointed out, I will work on my ADAB immediately, I think that you are the first person who was kind enough to remind me of my poor ADAB on any discussion board, and I am sure that you will not be the last. I will be thankful if you can bring to my attention the distasteful poor ADAB words or suggestions that I have levelled against sister Sakina on this board, which earned me your kind observation. I realize my limitations in case that was your message, Somalis say ( Dadku ku ma wada amaanaanee, yaaney ku wada caayin ). I must also thank you for your well meaning description of me being boastful and not God fearing, two qualities that are only known to Allah SWT, because they are not in the human domain of knowledge unless you have access to my heart. InshAllah I will work on all those shortcomings just in case, I have nothing to lose for checking myself out, and by the way, I have more areas of weakness in my deen that you did not notice that I am working on, May Allah reward you well for your intentions. Nur

Aristotle Bro. Thanks for your heartfelt advice, I will take your advice gracefully, just like I accepted Brother Viking's advice on my method which seems to be aggressive to some viewers, and as I pointed out in my last post, InshAllah, and for the sake of Allah, I will do my best to change the questionable aspective of my debates. In case you visit Somalia during your vacation, enjoy camel mikl bar-b-q, and clean environment, You have a valuable thing in your heart, iimaan, protect it, specially when visiting Somalia, pray that Allah saves you from Rer Qansax'x tribal fitnah, it takes no time in Somalia to get your blood boiling after one of your tribesmen tells you that your families camels were stolen by Rer qurac and five of the Camel boys killed while defending their camels, further, Rer Qurac's warriors are still at large planning to finish the job to kill the rest of your clan in the village including their MVP , you their celebrated intellectual from Ardi Gaalo. Nur

Sakina sis Alhamdulllah that you have set the record straight, let us agree from today on that we discuss the issue at hand or any other issue from a single perespective, that of Mainstream Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah. This agreement means the following: 1. We obey Allah and His Messneger and those among us of authority ( vested un them by virtue of obedience of Allah and His messenger like Scholars) and in case we disagree with those in authority ( Which is likely in case they fail to obey Allah and the Messneger) we the followers and those in authity among us (scholars) then, we REFER BACK TO ALLAH AND THE MESSENGER for guidance, referring to Allah means referring to Quraan, and referring to the Messenger means referring to the Hadeeths and the Sunnah of the Prophet SAWS. 2.We discuss with the intention of pleasing Allah SWT, and finding truth together, even if we have to abandon previously held ideas if evidence presented is convincing. Walaalo, Marka hore, ma aadan qorin hadal cad oo aan qoray uu muujinaya inaan meel kaaga dhacay, waxaan hubaa hal arrin, inaan aad u qiimeeyo dhallinyarada goobtaan ku wada hadla ayagoo kulligoo raadinaya Raalinnimada Rabbogooda inkastoo ay isku si wax u arkin. Walaal, haddad iga fahamtay waxaanan kuula jeedin oo xumaan ah, waan ka xumahay, iga raalli noqo, waa waxa ugu dambeeyo oon raadsado in qof Muslim ah, mid nool ama mid dhintay, aan ku sheego waxaan run ahayen ama aan meel kaga dhaco. Walaal, As for my referrence to Shia, its not diversion, you may not have realized, but whenever Sheikh Muhammad AvdulWahaab is mentioned on these boards, he becommes a free game for many sportsmen, each with their own agenda, ( if the Sheikh was on a wrestling match I see him being tagged by at least four different heavyweight wrestlers, Shia, Sufi, The Politically motivated, by aligning him with present day Rulers an conditions, and lastly, war on fundememtal Islam ). Now, when you throw your hat in this quagmire, as an expectator, I want to make sure where are you coming from. Now that its clear, let us move on. Walaalo, you write: You say that you did not stray from the topic then why you keep quoting the Shias when we are talking about Salafi/Ahlulsunna issues. If you allow me to correct your assumption that Sheikh Abdulwahaab is not Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah, he was a staunch Hanbali Fiqh follower and scholar, for your amazement, Sheikh Abdulqaadir Jeilani who is followed by Majority Somali Sufis was also a Hanbali. So unless you have a proof of your assumption that the Sheikh was NOT part of Ahlul Sunnah ( Shafici, Hanbal, Maliki, Hanafi) let us move on. Walaalo. The second most fundemental point in which we need to agree is the importance of the Arabic language in research, and the fact that without a sound knowledge of the Arabic language, we can not examine proofs of competing points of view, because as you know, the context of the verses or the hadeeths are important. From your response, I gather that you are neither a native speaker of the Arabic language, nor are well versed in the language, however, as you said, you have learned a lot of the Islamic knowledge through either Af-Somali interpretations, or English. My Dear sister, we can discuss any issue on these threads, as long as we have a reasonable grasp of the topic, in Medicine, like your example, we can discuss it from the point of view of consumers, we can question their methods, but if we pick up their books and start quoting their reerences, we better be prepared to understand their professional counterpunch jargon, for example when a Doctor tells your mum that she has ( Gastroesophaegealreflux ) ( I am not manking this up ) you find your self in a very specialized turf to play ball with people who studied Medicine for eight years in college, 4 years residency ( Professional Slavery ). All I am saying sister is, as long as we can match our understanding of the Quraan and the Hadeeth thorugh a solid knwowledge of the language and through completing basic related subjects and sciences, we can question their assumptions, if we dont, we may not be taken seriously. Although its true that a lot of knowledge has been translated to other languages by students of Islam, no serious scholar has ever challenged a Fiqh concept without a sound knolwedge of the language. So, the first step in understanding our religion is a solid understanding of the Arabic language, the Arabic culture that hosted the religion in its early days, the History of the people in the region and the Seerah of the Rasuul, all engraved in Arabic. The reason that I am mentioning this at the outset is to prepare you for a detailed discussion of concepts that you have questioned about the Sheikh, its only fair that you examine what I am saying favorably as what you have read elsewhere, in the course of the discussion, if we find that the Sheikh is wrong, you win me over, on the other hand, if i show the wrong premises on which the argument of his opponents are based, I want you to be on the side of what makes sense, not the Sheikh's, nor his opponents, just, with the XAQQ, no matter where it is, because, no mortal has monopoly on being right all the time on all issues. Walaalo, You ask: Brother Nur, do you believe that the Qur'an is real and has no metaphor at all or that there are metaphorical verses? Answer: Walaashey qaalida ah, this is exactly what I was talking about, in the Arabic literature, ( Al Balaagha) Metaphor is know as ( Kinaayah), one such example in the Quraan which caused a difference in opinion was this verse " And if you touch women and find no water ( for Gusl)" Shafici followers took the apparent ( Al Thaahir) and in Somalis who are predominantly Shaaficis to this day will make wuduu if they touch women, whereas, Hanbalis, take the metaphoric meaning of the word ( touch) which implied intercourse, because in a similar situation, Virgin Mary RAA was told that she was about to have a baby while she was a virgin, she said " No human has touched me" and we know women do not get pregnant by mere touching. So yes sister, I undrestand Metaphor reasonably well, because I studied it to meet requirement of Arabic Balaagha needed to get the gist of the Quraan and Hadeeth ( I studied the ( Pre-Islamic) Jaahili Poetry which is the richest living literature after the Holy Quraan, because the Miracle of the Quraan swept like a tsunami destrying the supremacy of the Okaz literary convention, I read thorugh the development of Islamic literary giants such as Al Farazdaq, Jariir and Akhtal, modern poets like Mutanbee and Showqi, but my heart was stolen by Abul Ataahiyah's Zuhd poetry, it makse me shed tears, wallahi, my most memorable beit goes like this : و من علامات تضييعي للآخرتي أن صرت الدنيا تضحكني و تبكيني Waxaana tilmaan u ah in ayan aakhiro wax wanaag ah iga horreyn, oon lunshay, oon dayacay, in nolosha adduunka, quruxdeeda, maalkeeda, sharaf raadinteeda, tartankeeda, jeceylkeeda, uu noqday kan iga qosliya markaan helo, igana oohiya markaan waayo ) Nur

اختي الÙاضلة OG Girl أعتبري هذه كملاحظة عابرة Ùˆ سريعة Ùˆ ليس بمثابة امتداد للنقاش حول الشخ محمد ابن عبدالوهاب النجدي أولا : ارجو ان تراجعي مقالي مرة أخري بامعان حيث أن اÙتراضك ÙÙŠ ملاحظتك ليس وارد ÙÙŠ مقالي لا من بعيد Ùˆ لا من قريب أصلا. ياأخيتي المقال يدور حول المزاعم التي ترددينه دون تثبت ÙÙŠ صحة مصادرهم Ùˆ مقاصدهم الطائÙية الرامية الي تذويب العقيدة اللاسلامية الصاÙية بتأويل غير مبني بالأسس الشرعية المتبعة لدى علماء أهل السنة Ùˆ الجماعة Ùˆ أنت أدرى منى أنه ليس من مذهب أهل السنة التضخيم Ùˆ التهويل من شأن العلماء مثل الطوائ٠الأخرى . Ùˆ أخيرا أشكرك ÙÙŠ حسن نواياك Ùˆ الله المستعان على ما يصÙون. Please lets keep the rest of the discussion in English for the sake of the majority of viewers. Brother Haddad Thanks for your wise comment, I pray that Sister OG girl takes it as a positive remark, mixing issues is not healthy. Mutakkalim As always, your selected verses of Quraan sum up any discussion with a heart piercing note, May Allah SWT guide us to the right direction, Amin Nur