Baashi and Rahima Thanks for responding to my question. The problem I have with politicians is not that they are likeable, Aden Cadde was very likeable guy, so was Sharmarke, his successor, but the problem I have with politicians is that they have their personal interests ( perceived) above the national interests. Looking back, we can ask, who is the Somali politician who placed his nations intersts above his personal intersts? I am sure that, this is a tough call, Aden Cadde, presided over Somalia after the Italians handed him the presidency after the ten years of local government by Abdullahi Isse came to an end, 10 years in which the Italians spent grooming the best possible candiddate and found it in Aden Abdullah Cusmaan ( Cadde). When we look back at history, we all know that we were colonized, for economic purposes by the Italians, being a Nomadic people, who lived in our pastures and camels, and survived our droughts and tribal skirmishes, our way of life was pretty much well defined to us. Once the Italians came and taught us how to eat spaghetti, and dress pants , go to the movies, drink alcohol and dance in night clubs, our way of life was changed for ever. The Italian way of life which most of the poiticians at the time emulated to be accepted at the inner core of future candidates had good aspects to it and bad, education was a good aspect, so was transparent government and elections of civil servants and policy makers, but wholesale disregard to our faith and family values suffered under the nascent Somali governments. When Aden Cadde assumed presidency in 1960, he toured several European countries in his augural year, he was well recieved in all of these countries, after all, aden Cadde, was a very handsome African leader, of a new nation, he was the best face to represent Somalia, with a captivating smile, so, in Germany his motorcade was folllowed like that of Kennedy, the sixties were years of the charisma, and Aden Cadde was blessed with it, what he did with it though is the focus of my question( from e-Nuri Documentaries ). The SYL in their formative years were seen as honest, nationalists who saw the evil of the Italian colonialsts, and hoped to one day secure the government of Somalis by competent Somalis. Like a rotten fish, from day one of the declaration of independence, politicians, each with a tribal allegiance and agenda began to secretly meet with his counterparts, bringing bus loads of Nomads to the cities from their tribal enclaves. The nationalist fervor was contiuesly dying and the Tribal agenda kept on rising in stealth, all this present in the literature and poetry of the time. Aden Cadde, his prime minsister, and later the second goevernment were bending under the weight of the tribal influence and no one had the vision among all those politicians that tribalis was gnawing away with our national aspiratiuon as a nation. So while these men were either asleep or a party to the cracks in the wall of the nation, outsiders who were threatened by Somalia potential and the resourcefulness of its people took advantage to weaken them through ideaoligies. I would've loved to believe that we as a nation had at least someone who spoke, let alone walked his talk, like the founders of the USA , like few great syings and words on the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC. Nur

Basho bro. and Nomads Can anyone think of a good Somali Politician? living or dead? Nur

Animal farm In addition to the Rememberance of Allah, Dhiker sessions, writing these pieces on the Somali scene is my leisurely way of coping with the frustrations our people have endured for the past two decades, in addition, I find it to be a refreshing way in telling it as it is, subliminally, that is, stretching it to extremes at times, to show the fallacies, to see the picture, sometimes, we need to magnify it, just like when you see your face against one of those funny magnified mirrors, you laugh, because it is you, its us Somalis, the Arabs say, " The worst of disasters make you laugh" O'Rourke? Nope! its the first time ever hear this writer, but you have indeed ignited my interest to google up the guy. Nur

Bashi bro. Yours was a very balanced observation, the need for ijtihad is indeed dire, the ummah is going through one of the most testing times, both in its existense and mission. Biotechnology is pushing the envelope of human limitaitions reenfocing Satan's promise in the Holy Quraan " I shall order them (humans) and they shall alter Allah's creation" . Ijtihaad has been frozen for a while, but the last centuru witnessed the most daunting task of explaining the most difficult questions ever raised in Islamic Fiqh, partly because the Muslim Fuqahaa (jurists) were trained on mere Sharia alone without corequisites in the humanities and sciences to equip them with an understanding of the phenomena (like cloning) along with their carricalae in the Sharia descipline. Ibn Qayyim in his book Iclaam Al Muwaqqicin says " In order for a Mufti to make a good judgement, he needs to know two principles well; 1. The Sharia , 2. The Object of the Judgement ( economics, science, genetics etc)" During the islamic golden days of the Fiqh, scholars like Ibn Taymia were well versed in Mathematics, medicine, philosophy, Greek and latin" among other things. the problem we live in today emanates from the separation of the theological sciences from the scientific ones, so we either have a scholar in theology who claims that the earth is flat, or a maverick scientists who come up with a wacky idea. until we combine the two, to fully grassp Allah's intentions in the revelations, we will continue to be bystanders in the march of life and our choices will be confined bewteen being monks or secularists. Nur

Bashi bro. Cag Bakayle was not present when you guys drafted this procedure ( Was talking to the kikuyu lady ) : procedure SAD-05-3425 Revision 6, section IV states in part , please elaborate on it some more, Cag Bakayle does nopt trust English speakers, but will exception in your case! Xiinfaniin bro. When can you start? you qualify for 7 positions, specially the more technical oriented departments of the anarchist committee, for curiosity though , do you know how to use chairs as a weapon during Anarchist meetings in Nairobi? Nur

Islamic Protestant Movement The Lampoon Brought to You By e-Nuri Corporation The light Side, of the heavy Stuff! Some so-called "Muslims" who have been rasied in the west with no clue of what Islam stands for, from time to time get conufused and suggest off the shelf interesting suggestions to modernize Islam in order to make it a " NORMAL " world religion. One such suggestion caught my eyes once in Somalinet boards. I immediately responded impulsively, but you can only appreciate my response if you are knowledgeable in Christian history. So be careful when you read this piece, it pushes the envelope of warped imagination of confused "Muslims" to new hights. A poster calling himself "O Jay" posted an article on Somalinet boards and Suggested the establishment of an Islamic Protestant Church to modernise Muslims to teach them the benefits of Democracy like the USA. As a response, I wrote back the following piece to help Mr. O Jay establish his dream of Islamic protestantism Church, all I did was go back in history and rebuild his version of Islam like christianity was built, so we can have the comfortable religion like Christianity, so relax, this rendering is an imaginitive lampoon of his funny suggestion. It is not to belittle Islam, but only to illustrate that if we are not careful, were the train of thought can take us. My Answer to O Jay. Interesting Idea O JAY Let us see where your Vision and idea takes us. First, we will have the Islamic Nicean Convention, in the Mediterranean Port of Nicea, near Cyprus, There, we will have President Bush as the Chairman of the Convention, since he is a Sourthern Babtist, his presence and power can intimidate delegates to adopt Islamic Protestantism. His position will be analogous to the place of the Roman King De Niro who presided over the First Nicean convention in the second century in which Christians decalred that There are three Godheads. The delegates who will come from all parts of Muslim world, will be named by your organization, Islamic Protestantism Organization, and because you do not have enough members to make a big difference, The National Institue of Health will CLONE you to be five thousand people who want Islamic Protestantanism. Meanwhile, Twenty "backward" clerics like NUR who will disagree with your plan will also be invited for the sake of fairness in the elections. At the end of the Convention, Genetically altered delegates, who are your clones, will declare that Allah is God , Muhammad is Son of God and Ali is the holy spirit, but these three are ONE . Welcome the Islamic Trinity. Now we have the Muslim TRINITY. Next, The Clones will author some two hundred books of Quraans, each one different version, The authors will have only one name, just like MARK, LUKE and MATHEW etc, and nobody will bother to verify their original names, and many sects will appear who will begin to fight and cause trouble for the peace of the New World Order. Due to this confusion, the New Worl Order Government decides to give the Islamic Catholics a small state in Morocco, which will be called Islamic Vatican, where the Muslim Pope sits. He begins to bless people , feed them pieces of PITA Bread, and Islamic wine named ZOMZOM, The Pope will sell to them pieces of Paradise for $1000 per square meter while supplies last for the next century, he will allow all the sinning you can buy for a sizable donation to the Islamic Church, and if you can describe tidbits to the priest during your confession, The Church may even offer you a lucrative Job as the youth counsellor, where you have an opportunity to molest kids. The New Islamic Church which you envision, will teach that all you have to do is believe that Muhammad died for your sins, so no more guilty feeling when indulging in your lusts. Islamic Catholics will be able to enjoy good things in life like wine and girl friends. In schools they will have Islamic Choirs, singing, "O my Lord Muhammad please save me". The Islamic Catholics will sell Statues of Muhammad, and Ali, and The Mowliid, Muhammad's birthday will be the Islamic Chrismas, when Islamic Catholics will import Chrismass trees from Norway and Sweden. The Islamic Nativity sites, In Islamic Catholics Mosques there will be a Statue of Muhammad , Halima, Khadija, Fatma, Aisha, Maymuna, Safia. At This point many Muslim Catholics who live in Germany will become upset by the Church in Morocco, and is commercialization of the Religion. The Islamic protestanism movement begins, led by one of the decendents of your clones, his name will be Martin Luther O JAY, and the Islamic Protestant church is established. Then the Protestants differ on many issues, so new sub groups are born, Islamic Southern Babtists, Islamic Seven day adventist, Islamic Methodists, Islamic Mennonites, Islamic Presbyterians, and Islamic Unitarians, etc...and the list goes on. Finally, people become upset with religion altogeter, and become more Secular, Religion will become a big joke, and a one day Services for geriatric old couples in their 90s, while girls an boys will be going to church to chat and socialize, and plan weekend parties. At the end, your Demonic Dream of Democracy will be realized when Gays and Lesbians are ordained as Islamic Protestant Sheikhs in your Islamic Protestant Church who will make everything under the sun Xalaal. Is that what you had in mind O JAY? Nur 2002 Nurtel Lampoons unlimited

Baashi bro. you write: Here I wholeheartedly agree with him. For instance, the Prof makes the point that contemporary scholars abandonment of “Ijtihad†was wrong . Ijtihad is an auxilliary branch of fiqh that is of last resort, not first, second nor even distant third, which is Qiyaas, Ijtihaad it is to explain complex issues facing the Ummah that need the collective pooling of knowledge and wisdom to confront a common RARE problem. For Ijtihad to flourish, just like it did during the great imaams ( Mujahid,Awzaaci, Leith, Maliki, Shafici, Hanbali, Haniifah ) there must exist a fresh soil on which the fiqh plant can take root to provide the Ijtihad fruit. Once the stems are frimly placed on a rich soil of STABILITY, KHILAAFAH, and a purposeful exsistence as Ummah, Fiqh branches out to cover the far ends of the human endeavors and in that course, the Fiqh encounters mind teaseing problems that could not be resolved by current held views nor can be found out-right from the Quraan, ther Sunnah, Qiyaas, or the Ijmaac ( consensus opinion of scholars ), in these cases, Ijtihaad's door open up. The best analogy for Ijtihad I can draw from our experience is mathematicians who come across a difficult problem that no past experience can help solve the problem, which challenges the mind and fires ingenuity to its maximum throttle. We say, for that specific well defined problem, the door is open, because, both government and Scholars agree on the urgency of finding a solution. Failing to grasp that fact, and trying to make Ijtihad with current situation as a backdrop of its evelopment by mavericks, we will have the New York Women leading prayers, Sodomy Marriages, I have even responded to a Somali who suggested that we need an islamic Protestant Movement to which I have posted a satirical piece. Recapping, 1. Ijtihad is the last resort source of legislation. 2. Ijtihad if it was a plant, requires a vase, with rich nutrients of resources to draw from, which is an Islamic State that encourages, enforces and applied the Ijtihad to solve particular problems. 3. Ijtihaad takes back seat to Quraan, Sunnah, Qiyaas, and Ijmaac as a last resort for legislation or devising a solution to problems of fiqh. 4. Pre-requsiste for making Ijtihaad, is a firm knowledge of the Quraan, Sunnah, Qiyaas, and the Science of usool al Shariica ( The Moral of the Law) a very interesting branch of islam sciences that sheds a light on the origins of why the Sharia is the way it is and the fact that at different times, different situations, and at different contsxts, the same source, Ayah or hadeeth can have a different Xukm or application. 7 of 9 ( Ten of Ten ) sis Thanks for the explanation sis. Nur

Qucik obeservations I have replied to the author in a well thought out manner, the topic was Rethinking Islam, but throughout his article, the author was referring to the understanding of latent Muslims of Islam, not that he was suggesting that Allah rework islam by sending an new Prophet, yet, the Prof made major blunders in my opinion due to his bicultural background, and ignorance of the Arabic language which was apparent from his writing eventhough he lived in XSaudi rabia for five years as a professional expatriate working to earn a living, not learning islam, but once he went back to UK, and his active role in Islam, we have him a new guru mufti in steeering Islam to a westoword direction. 7 of Nine What is so Holly about Mackarel? or Tuna for that matter? Jee, is for Christians, short for Jesus Holy Cow, for Hindus, Subxaana Allah ! is for Muslims. Respectfully Nur

Najma Sis I was curious why you need this translation, so I almost dismissed it as nonsesne at first, then I realized, that it could be for a community Serivice, translating for Single mothers and their daughters ( as I did not see any male stuff ) Below, I had a go on the list, I scratched my head twice, it took me a short while to translate from the top of my head limited only to my typing speed, but I got stuck with few words. My wish ofr this service of mine is please advice against abortions for Somali girls, I read a report of rising Abortion rates for Somali girls in a town in UK, showing they represented the highest for any minority group, even if premarital sex is invloved, because, its a compunded sin, Sex + Murder. The e-Nuri Transemantics Service to The Task : 1,2,3 degree bruns (Gubasho, heer koobaad, labaad, seddexaad) abandonment ( Dayris ) abortion (Dilan, Dilmo) abuse ( Xumeyn, garaacid, si xun loo galo) addiction ( Balwad) allergies ( Xasaasiyad) amputation ( Jarid, Goyn) anxiety ( Talo la'aan, calool xumo) artery ( Halbowle) asthma ( Neef) authorities ( mus-uuliinta) back ( dhabar, dib, gadaal) biopsy (Baarid cad-goyn) bladder ( Kaadi heysta ) bleeding ( Dhhig bax) blindness ( Indho beel) blood work ( Shey baar dhiig) bodily organs ( Xubnaha korka) borderline personality disorder ( Khafiifnimo) brain ( Maskax) breast ( Naas) cancer ( Kansar) catherter ( Dhax duse shay baar) cervix ( chest pain ( laab xanuun ) coma (Miyir beel) conjunctivitis contusion coronary counseling ( la talis, waano) dependency (hoos joog) depression ( calool xumo, walwal) diabetes ( kaadi sokorow) diarrhea (shuban) domestic violence (cadaadis sokeeye) down syndrome ( Jirrada Sacsacnimada) ear infection ( Dheg dillac, xanuun , malax) ekg ( Cabbirka is garaaca wadnaha) emotional disturbed ( xasil beelnimo calool jileec) fever ( Qandho ) fibroid foot ( cag ) fracture ( dillac) gallbladder ( kaadi heysta) geriatrics ( Waayeelnimo) hysterectomy infection (iskudaarasho) in patient (is daaweyn jiif la'aan) insurance company ( Sharkadda Ceymiska) intensive care ( badbaadinta bukaanka heerka sare) intravenous ( quudinta dhiigga) kidneys ( kalyaha) laceration ( nabro, barar) laser surgery ( Qalidda layzarka) liver ( beerka) lungs ( sambabaha) mammorgram ( baaridda bararka naaska) medication ( daawo ) miscarriage (Dhicis ) molestation ( Qabsasho) mood swings ( Fudeyd) nurse ( Neeris) ovaries ( Umumo heysta) oxygen patient ( bukaan) pelvic ( miskaha) pelvic examination ( baaridda miskaha) pharmacy ( Farmashiyaha) plastic surgery ( Qalidda is qurxiska) pneumonia ( Nuumonya) point to your pain ( taabo meesha ku xanuuneysa) post dramtic stress ( muraal dillac) pregnant ( uur) procedure ( habka ) recovery ( reysasho) rehabilitation ( daaaddihin ) ribcage ( Feeraha) seeing things, hearing things ( Waax arag , wax maqal) sexual abuse ( kufsasho ) sinuses (xididdaha sanka iyo madaxa udhexeeya) skin graph skull ( lafta qaawan ee Madaxa) stitches ( dhaawac tolid) stomach ( calool) surgery ( qalid) syringe ( irbad) test came back positive ( shey baarka wuxuu sheegay in wax jiraan) thyroid tooth cavity ( ilig dalool) transplant ( fujin iyo ku dhajin) ultrasound ( uur baarid) urinalysis (kaadi baarid) vagina (cambarka) vaginal ( cudur ku saabsan cambarka) venereal disease (Cudrrada hoose, ibta) virus ( fayruus) vomiting ( matag) wheel chair ( kursiga bukaanka) X-ray Nur

From The E-Nuri Archives, an article I wrote during the Arteh Somali political Convention some 3-4 years ago. Politicians Faarax Gololley, the legendary Political Humorist during the Afweyne Regime was quoted as saying : " Afweyne raac, ama Afgooye aad, ama Afkaaga heyso ," " Either Follow Afweyne, Get Ready For Afgoy Political Prison, or Keep your mouth shut " Today, our country, the former Somali Republic, and the world in general is going through difficult times, in Somalia, we are witnessing a 12 year uncivil war going on with no end in sight, a dilemma that is inhibiting any progress while at the same time exacerbating living conditions . The result is that many Somalis who are stranded overseas as refugees are unable to go back home, worse yet, they are unhappy to live in the Diaspora and are very fearful of melting in the American pot, adopting the McDonald and Levi's culture of consumerism, with no apparent purpose of life beyond that. The solution of this problem lies in understanding politics, the politicians mindset and what drives them to make such horrible decisions as to to tear apart entire nations, seaparate friends who grew up with a tribalist mantra and exploit their fears to keep their pockets full of cash and their mouths full of qaat. Politicians at home mobilize the masses and create an enemy for them to hate, later they use this hate energy to fuel their vehicles to grab power and lead their people to miseries. Likewise, on a wider scope, Internationally, politicians are doing the same thing , the scale of the village and human agony is just much bigger than Somalia, but the pain of innocent civilians in Iraq and Somalis caught across fire , hurts the same, like they say, killing one person is murder, annihilating a village is a policy, stark realities of the the Global Village and the New World Disorder. Politicians usually rise to the top to fill power vacuums created when decent people shun politics due to its close relationship with sleeze and dirty tricks, so most decent people who value their dignity stay away from politics for fear that it would tarnish them, and their loved ones with bad reputation by casting doubts on their character. As a result, the bad apples in society, who care les for their reputation, take the lead and speak for the people and nation. Interest groups, those with material stake in the affairs of the nation, as opposed to moral values, begin supporting those who are seeking power. The interest group gives these power hungry hopefuls financial support in their quest for power, and slowly, they begin controlling them and directing them to serve the interest groups agendas against the interest of the constituency they claim to represent. Welcome the birth of a Politician, a Hero and Great leader of his tribe. The politician has just sold out his people to an interest group behind the scenes with a secret agenda. He sold his conscious and that of his people for a quick personal gain that will haunt his nation for many years to come, and it is partially due to the citizens who allowed him to speak in their name and shunned active participation for fear of smearing and mudslinging. So, if good principles were like our clean bodies, a politician becomes an Intellectual Prostitute ready to trade his people principles and values for his personal gain. A prostitute is therefore a person who allows others to buy time to desecrate her/his body in exchange for a material gain, like money. An Intellectual prostitute on the other hand is a person who allows others to desecrate her/his soul and intellect for a material wealth. Politics was defined as the art of avoiding to tell the truth to those who need it most, but short of defending an outright verifiable lie, the more creative a politician gets in concealing the truth, the savvier that he is valued as a politician by his mentors, the interest group. The highest honor for a politician should win him the coveted Pinocchio Trophy. Politicians are thus people who are interested in their personal interests and who are willing to pursue them even if it conflicts with their constituent's interest. At times, our warlords reason very logically. Everyone is claiming that he is working for what is good for our country and people, they tell us that they are saving Somalia by killing Somalis, no wonder their job is taking 12 years and counting. Prostitutes sell their body for the highest bidder, in contrast, politicians sell their moral convictions to the richest financial donor. Prostitutes do not enjoy selling their bodies, but they are just compelled in doing so ,they reason, since everyone else is on their own, what the heck.. But neither do politicians enjoy telling lies, at the end of the day though, they have to pay their bills to support their special lifestyle, so, a white lie wouldn't hurt, so what the heck. Most people would agree with the above statements that I made, but to date, only the Italians, our past colonial masters have made the link, let us see if our Somali politicians , Presidents, Boqors, Warlords and Anarchists@ El Doret can learn a lesson or two from Reer Benito Mussolini. Just before the last gulf war, a group of Italian voters, mostly young, elected an Italian Porn Star called Miss Cicciolina to Italian Parliament, They wanted to send a message to their politicians about their intimate feelings toward them, so they sent Miss Cicciolina to the Italian Parliament. The only promise the young lady made was that she will bare her top in Parliament. Subsequently, Miss Cicciolina was elected, and to the embarrassment of the Italian lawmakers, she sat topless in their midst, delivering on her promises and scoring a victory for the Italian voters who were displeased with their politicians. Later she confirmed that many politicians in parliament were staring at her with interest. Cicciolina became an embarrassment in Italian Parliament, so she was asked to participate in the Parliament's Defense Committee, a boring committee that she would later breathe some evil excitement into it. As a member of the Defense Committee, she demanded to be sent to the Gulf War to entertain the Italian Soldiers in the Gulf. She was a sellout. After the show, she wondered what was all these troops doing in the gulf ? she was told that Saddam was a crazy and hostile to his neighbors and the troops are amassed here to control his evil intentions. She reasoned that they were doing the wrong thing amassing so many troops and risking so many human lives to handle a stressed out politician, instead, she offered to visit Saddam personally in order to defuse the tense situation, but her defense committee became too defensive about such a "sinister" idea. Politicians also need the media to transmit their lies to their constituents, they need to reassure the public that everything is OK, and that big corporations are doing community work, burying Nuclear waste in Yoontey and cashing the checks in Nairobi Banks. They convince the locals that they can have free chest X ray and a glass of milk every day if they look after the nuclear waste in their backyard. Somali politicians think that Radiation is good for the public, so is disease, poverty, illiteracy , chaos and the ongoing anarchy, if that is not the case, then tell me please, why are they so adamant in prolonging our pain? The News media in turn catches the prostitution disease, Ideally, News media were meant to report truth, and to be objective about what goes on in the our community. If you are as naive as I am, you would ask foolish questions like " Why are the politicians and the News media telling tall tales, why is each periodical, radio or a website supporting a local loser?" But Something tells me: " It is all about money Stoopid! " So as a result, the news media continues to stay in business, attracting more and more sponsors which leads to our present situation in which the news media is so adultered, doctored and altered beyond recognition. To make it even more patriotic, the newspapers become a platform for disorientation of the public, The masses are lied to, manipulated and processed like a slaughter house by the influential few with wealth and who have an interest in continuing to dominate their community, their ultimate goal being Power. Now, can you blame the warlords for clinging to power so tightly? As the public is bottle fed with lies on a daily basis, bull manure begins to smell like Giorgio's of Beverly Hills perfume, a lie needs to be repeated so many times before it is upgraded to reality, and as we the public are busy making ends meet in our daily circus to survive, we learn to adjust to live with such a lie, suddenly, a naive person like me or a child yells " Siyaasiyintu waa Qaawan Yihiin" Nur 2002 Nurtel Political Observatories ------------------------------------------------- Nur Post appear regularly at Somaliaonline Islam Pages

Nomads I am sure that you know of inspirational stories of your own, share your Readers Digest type of inspirational stories her, provocative stories that can trigger deep thoughts to peek deep into our makeup and character, our destiny and purpose in life. Nur

WOL sis Wa Iyaaki, now lets get on with our Quraan Tadabbuur, any new insights from verses? Nur

Ngonge bro. Tom never dies, no matter what Jerry does, in these cartoon shows, the episodes continue, one after the other, like you've noticed, while Tom and Jerry are Show characters created by Goldwyn Myers who follow a well written movie script, ending always according to the directors vision, some amateur mice forget that its only a show, and that its fooolish to try these tricks at home, thats when these problems happen, little mice imitating mighty Mouce are disrupting the show! Nur

Ngonge bro. Again, good points, but instead of of a point by point rebuttle allow me to give a nutshell explanation of present events in the world, from an Islamic point of view. In the medieval times, the world used to be governed by emperrors, empires with clearly delineated borders and fortresses, people were very islolated from each other by walls, they knew little about each other, then came the nation states, Democracy, human rights and the rule of the law, and TV. a transparet due processes of law were decalared, human experiece for those who adopted this trend improved tremmendously to give the world nations like Sweden and Finland as forerunners of the ideal transparent governments in the western hemisphere, because justice was enhanced through participation, then came roaring Communism , arms and space race, which created distrust between west and east, Muslim nations, caught between the two who have lost their empire, the Califate, had to follow one of the camps, some of them opted to create a new alliance along with India and Indonesia called the non-aligned nations club, then the wall in Berlin fell down due to the inability of the Soviets to hold onto their Empire in the west when they were bleeding and engaged by a fierce war with the CIA supported Mujaahideen in Afghanistan where they have lost 100 thousand soldiers, as a result of this prolonged war, the Russians called quits, and the breakdown of the biggest threat to western values crumbled without danger to the western nations. Instead of hailing the Mujahiddeen in Afganistan as the liberators of Poland, Latvia and Lituania, and securing America from the Soviets, The Mujahideen who sacrificed their lives for the liberation of Afghanistan from Soviets and indirectly contributed to the fall of the USA most dangerous enemy, The Soviets ( with 4000 Nuclear Warheads targeted at USA and western Europe ) in addition to the value added bonanza of freedoms that spread throughout the former Soviet republics like wild fire, instead of that , tables were turned agianst The Mujahideen warriors by their friends the CIA, the Mujahideen, the men of peace who were led by and financed by men like Bin ladin, the CIA and Muslim governments were later rebranded Al Qaedah, to wage a serious war, one needs an ugly enemy, Bin ladin was photogenic for that, and even some american girls fell in love with him on some accounts. These men should have been credited to the stability and peace in Europe and the world, however, the con-artists who dragged them to Afghanistan in the first place, were done with them, The Mujahideen were effective for their past assignement against teh Soviets, but a new world order was in the horizon, a new ball game and a new totalitarian world is to begin, fear of the public was needed and villains to act that part was found in the former Mujaahideen, AKA Al Qaedah, and just like they have treated Noriega of Panama and Sad-damn of Iraq, once their assignament were done, the Mujahideen aka Al Qaedah were painted afresh with new image, that of villains. Now, after the end of Soviets as a formidable threat to NATO and the west, a new enemy # 1 of the public order was needed, and was found in the bearded image of Bin ladin and company, men who will never make it to a court of law, hiding in mountains that were pulverized by thousands of tons of depleted uranium shells who still manage to direct the most ferocious war against civiliazations from their caves in Afghanistan, because, if they were to speak to a jury, they would drag many politicians to jail with them, so, it was necessary to finish their contracts without pay. Now, under these circumstances, when the world peoples of different cultures and religions are broght close togeher by Starbucks coffe, it becomes like two chemicals placed close to each other, a wise person must expect some chemical reactions of sorts, not that its desired, but that its likely to happen, thus take the precautions for safety. Failing to look back at the historical development of the present war being fought in major city streets can mask the real culprits, motives and beneficiaries of the menace we are all suffering from. As long as the real criminals are at large to this day ( Sad-Damn still waiting for his day in court ), and those who played ball before together in the same team, know of each other well enough not to disclose each other for mutual benefit, it will be a TOM and Jerry episode after another. Unless lip-biting, eye-twisting TOM catches ellusive resourcesful Jerry, who is very familiar with his big buddy Jerry's tactics, we the mice at Somaliaonline have to live with the reality until such time, when the real bad guys are caught and the good guys come forward, then we clapp in joy for the end of an intersting cartoon movie. Pass me the popcorn NGONGE! Nur

Ngonge bro. You have settled my case for me, I find your treatment for my last post very balanced and logical, and not necesarily that i wholly agree with, but for the major part, I have restored my confidence in you, as long as we are all Faith centered, opinions will always differ, but to fundementals we all agree: That we should live according to our faith's teachings: 1. Killing of Innocents is never justifiable 2. Islam does not condone the killing of noncombatants period. 3. Islam does not accept any of Machiavellis theories followed by present world leaders. You write: It is really simple, Nur. Try to control your emotions and isolate your anger. Try to remember all those lectures you habitually give on Islam and Muslim behaviour. How were we supposed to behave? Why were we behaving in such a way? What is the Ajer in doing this and the punishment in doing that? What are the benefits? What are the ills? You know the drill, saaxib.. Brother, Thank you for your advice, and accept my apology if I came on rather charged, sanity is becoming a rarity these days and I am no Messiah, but heed your kind advice, I shall, after all, you owe me one, inshallah I shall work for the good of Islam, and humanity, toward peace, I am sure that being balanced requires a lot of alertness, and you have reminded me that even when we are trying to be just, that we can be unjust, a difficult feet by any measure. One last word, for all of us who have benefited from the neighborliness and living in the west, we should be a good example of the faith we profess, our actions speak louder, we should bridge the present rift we patience, perseverence and tolrance. There is good in all people, how much we receive of that, depends on how much of it we give, let us work in the portrayal of our real image of Islam, that of the benevolence and peace, even under the difficult circumstances of mistrust and fear about the bad image we have been painted. Good shall prevail. Nur

A great read, in the mind of Prof Zardar. The Prof has made some good observation, his intentions seem to be for the good of our faith, his opinion is open for interpretation though. Does Islam has to be "Reworked again" A problem that affects Muslims who were born in non Muslim majority countries is the adoption of the thinkng of their host countries. Being born in UK, and briefly working in Saudi, with all its good and bad aspects like any other country, the Prof. draws a mental picture, with an Islamic paint brush on a Western canvas . There is no doubt that Muslim ummah is in sick condition, in many aspects, I agree with the Prof on that, however, their "sickness" is drawn from their collective defficieny in the application of the Sharia, not from there failure to modernise the Sharia, because, the Sharia is not grown in vaccuum, it must be applied on real cases and accepted by the adherents of the faith, it is the dynamic interpretation of the devine teachings in the Quraan and the Sunnah. But unlike Christianity which never developed a similar code, the Sharia which literally means the law, is the collection of the Devine rulings and the Prophetic directives in cases related to the interaction of the faithful with their lives, business and personal relationship, thus, the legislator is Allah SWT through His Prophet. So, in Islam, we have Jurists ( Fuqaha) but not legislators, as that was done with by Allah SWT. The moral of the Sharia is Preservation of: 1. Faith 2. Life 3. Property 4. Family, decendants ( NASL) 5. Mind These never change, any development in Sharia that threatens the above is against the moral of the Deen, thus unacceptable. The author claims that Sharia is not devine, so, its can be changed at will to fit our needs. This is gross over simplication: Allah SWT says in Quraan: " Thumma jacalnaaka calaa Shariicatin minal amri fattabichaa, wa laa tattabic ahwaa a alladheena laa yaclamuun " meaning " Thus we ordered you ( O Muhammad) to follow a law, so follow it, and do not follow the desires of those who know not " So it is true that the Sharia as a code, it is not a God ( devine) but it is a law from God, which mustr be adhered to and followed. As life progresses it becomes complicated, and I agree that we as Muslims must always find a solution in the Sharia, the tricky part here were the Prof takes a nose dive is that when the Sharia and our interests diverge, which one should be held constant and which one should be changed? unlike the American constitution that endured over 200 years without a major change, the Sharia, the oldest applied code in the history of humanity, is sound and kicking, what id needs is our modification of our lifestyles to adapt to the sharia, not the otehr way around, Alcohol will never be made halaal, and premarital sex will never be accepted, nor Soddomy marraiages like the modern society has come to accept. I understand the frustration of generations of Muslims who grew up in the west, being torn between the yearning of the good life in the west on one hand, and the testing demands islam as a faith demands from the faithful. From time immomorial, Moses and his followers suffered injustices and redicule, so was Jesus and Muhammad, if the life of this world and its enjoyment alone is the call of our faith, then I would have to agree with the prof. on his logic of modernization of the Sharia, if on the otherhand, we condider this life as the first half of a game, than, rules are rules, playing here means paying there and vice versa, Islam ( austere submission to God ) is not fun here, but it leads to eternal happiness in the hereafter, I know of no scripture, Torah, Gospel or Quraan that negates that statement. Nur

Afromali bro. Killing of innocent civilians is forbidden in Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, secularism or by Athiesm. Simply it is plain evil. As for those who've committed the attrocities against innocent civilians in New York and London, whoever they are, and whatever their religion, ignorant zealots, masterminds who brainwashed them, or any other political beneficiaries Framers from this mayhem, there is no justification in our faith, and those who have committed these crimes against defenseless civilians going about their daily lives, have indeed committed a crime against all of mankind, they will have to answer to Allah SWT for their crimes, in addition to their painting of our faith a non befitting image which is contrary to all of basic tenets in Islam. It is important not to religiously label the criminal by his religion, because like we agreed, no faith approves of such heinous crimes. Three men who are at large, A Christian, A Jew and a Muslim, two in hiding and one a President, Bin Laden the Muslim, and Mladic the Christian Serb leader and Sharon the Jew are said to have committed the infamous 9/11 2800 murders in NY, the Srebrenica genocide of 10,000 civilians with assistance of the Christian Dutch UN army who handed the civilians to the Serbs, and the Sabra and Shatilla Massacre of the Christian Phalangists who murdered 800 palestinian civilians in their camps in Palestine with the blatant allowance of the Israeli Army under the command of Sharon. Sharon was later found by a competent Israeli court to be indirectly responsible by the massacre, Christian Mladic and the Christian Dutch army were cited by the world court at the Hague for Mladic for Genocide, and the handing over by the Dutch Battalion of unarmed Muslims to Mladic as Dutch commanders drank champagne with General Mladic; also the Dutch Battalion's supplying of fuel for General Mladic to drive away his captives for torture and execution; and General van der Wind's debriefing of July 13 and the beginning of the attempted cover-up. Finally we have Bin Laden the alledged 911 mastermind, who the only link to 9/11 is his admission and tapes, ( no neutral commission like the Hague, has so far verified the authenticity of thesae tapes, but the man is the Terror Icon of the century . A man who has worked closely with the US in Afganistan as an ally against the Soviets in the eighties, who only sends his tapes at crucial election seasons to scare voters to stand behind their incumbent president each time their populatities poll slips below 50%. Conspiracy theories claim that Bin Laden, like Elvis Pressley, may have died long time ago ( Hollywood Digital Video editing technologies helped create the tapes they claim ), but may have been kept alive for political purposes, we all know that conspiracy theories are only true when no one believes them, but if this man is never found, and a lot of draconian policies are passed, it would be too late to rewind reality back to where things were before 9/11, we may never reclaim the lost freedoms, and human lives, in addition the freindship bewteen well meaning Muslims and the tolerant American people. Nur

Viking bro. So, I assume that you have chosen # 3, for an answer, that you have no cilim (knowledge) enough to accept that someone who says La ilaaha illa Allah can be out of islam, even if it is true that they indeed believe all the aqeedah I have collected from their books and imaams. This leads to me to another question. We all know that Salaat, prayer, has Nawaaqidh.( what makes the salaat invalid) such as talking, eating or etc. So if a person talks in Salaat, he has to repeat his salaat. 1. Does Islam has a boundary of conditions and Nawaaqidh that renders our claim invalid if we break these conditions, in action or in words even if a person says the Shahaada? or is Islam a faith that only depends on the Shahaada alone regardless of the actions? 2. If you say that Islam has conditions and nawaaqidh, my question is what are these Nawaaqidh according to your understanding? and do the list of aqeedah of the Shia in this thread, GIVEN THEY ARE TRUE, pose any question as to the validity of their Islam? Nur

Afromali bro. You ask: What is the punishment for someone who refuses to follow A DIRECT command from ALLAH?? Afromali bro. This question is neither simple, nor quick, I treated the same question before, please take the time to read it thoroghly. Am I A Munafiq? Well, that is a difficult question, first let us learn the relationship between iimaan, sin and kufr to see where nifaaq belongs. 1. No Soul will go to Jannah which is not a Muslim(a) 2. No one can be Muslim without Shahaada (Tawxiid) 3. Shahaada is information, we are required to believe in and bear witness thereof. 4. The test to see if we indeed believe in information represented by the Shahaada are our deeds: So our faith is composed of a A. set of Information we are required to believe. B. Set of Commands we are ordered to obey The extent of your belief in the information that our Prophet SAWS delivered is measured by the extent of orders that we obey. In other words, our obedience to the orders of Allah, is a reflection of our belief in the information delivered to us. So , Islam is composed of a two sets: A) A set of information to be believed in, like Allah, Jannah, angels, etc . B) A set of orders to abide with, such as Prayers, (Salat), Fasting, Upholding Justice, etc . The orders are subdivided in to two categories: 1.Orders to do something 2.Orders to stay away from doing something If Allah orders us to do something, and we fail to comply, the reason could be: a. We do not believe in the information b. We believe in it but we are arrogant c. We are MENTALLY CHALLENGED If (a) that is clear kufr If (b) That is also kufr, the type of Sheitan If © We may be the same case like a crazy person, Mentally Challenged, no responsibility. If we are ordered to stay away from something, and we do not, we have the following scenario: a. We do not believe in the information b. We are arrogant c. We can not resist temptation d. We are MENTALLY CHALLENGED All but case © are covered above. If case © is the situation, then that is called disobedience (Sin)(Macsiyah) and it is what Adam and Eve , (Hawaa) aleyhimaa assalaam have committed. It does not make one a kaafir by itself. ( The Khawaarij are the only to claim that a sin can make one a Kafir ) To generalize the above. If a person does something he is ordered not to do, the driver is more likely weakness against temptation, and that person is not a kaafir, this is the case of Adam and Eve, Aleyhimaa assalaam . If a person refuses to do something he is ordered to do, the driver of his action is more likely arrogance, like the case of Sheitan . Now we visit a new territory: There is a principle for detecting iiman ( Faith) levels developed by Sheikh Ibn Taymiyah. Called (Talaazumul Dhaahir wal Baatin )( Synregy of the Apparent actions of a person with the Hidden Motives within the consciousness ) I will simplify it for you again. The inside beliefs and the outward actions of a person are always working in harmony. Except when an outside disturbance influences that person attention. When as a result, the outwardly actions of that person projects and acts contrary of what is supposed to be inside . Meaning. In Systems Science, when we input a signal into a balanced system, we observe an output that reflects the shape of the original signal output + the function of the signal that operated on the system. In the absence of outside disturbance, we can always predict the output. But when an outside element disturbs the system, the output will not be predictable. A person who is a kaafir therefore will normally act as a kaafir. Sabeelul kaafireen And a person who is a muslim will always act like a Muslim. Sabeelul Mumineen In general, if you leave anyone alone, what he/she does is reflecting what they believe . But the minute that person feels that he/she is being observed, that feeling will somewhat effect the action of that person. An example is when you catch a child making funny faces on a mirror the child will immediately alter his behaviour to an acceptable manner. This is called conforming. So, when a Kaafir lives with Muslims, he may act like Muslim, to avoid problems. He is called a Munaafiq . And a Muslim who lives with Kufaar may at times act like kuffar, to avoid problems. He is called Mukrah . Now, a Somali Nomad who lives in Somalia, USA or Europe, is free to practice his faith, so if that person does not practice, or he acts contrary to his faiths tenets, his actions are an indicators of what is missing in his heart. In this case the actions or their absence are an indictor of the iimaan inside that person. However a Muslim who lives in tyranny, his actions may not be indicator of his belief. Because, if this person practices his faith, he is afraid for his life. As a result this person conceals his faith portraying himself as non Muslim, when in effect he fully believes his faith and is willing tp practise it to the fullest if he was not afraid. His fear, though could be justifiable or may be unjustifiable, in which case he is in grave error. Allah says : Are they same he who spends all his nights praying and prostrating, alert for aakhirah, and the one who is in darkness..............................."

NGONGE you write: " Nur, I’m afraid that in spite of the several posts you’ve made on this topic, I still can’t tell what side of the fence you’re on. " Saaxib I am on the side of common sense, justice and Islam, fair enough? Now, my turn, NGONGE, I am assuming that you are a British citizen, if your faith's tenets and your countries policies collide, where is your allegiance? If your country of adoption wages a war against the country of your ancestory, which side are you going to be? Hint. Ask this question to the International Zionists movement, or Irish Americans. They've both sent money, moral and material support to Isreal and the IRA respectively, two organizations that have proven track record of terrorism, killing of civilians and destruction of properties. If that was not crime then, tell me saaxib, why is it so abhorring to you to speak to Al Qaedah and the Iraqi insurgency to avoid further bloodshed, After all Bin Laden was a close friend of the Bush family for a decade, I am sure they can work their differences amicably over a nice dinner over the Thames, but not over our flying limbs and body parts please! Please be as direct in answering as I was to your question. Nur

Ngonge bro. You write: My advice to all the readers here is to engage oneself in some serious self-examination and contemplation. Ndugu Right on the money! Your write ups are always provocative and soul searching, if your intentions are in the cause of Allah SWT, like Shamsuddiin said in his thread, Unity of Purpose, not Unity In Opinion, I wholeheartedly agree to many of your observations without a reservation. Like you, I am a strong supporter of the concept of walking our talk, that pointing fingers at others for our problems is no cure for our ills, and that we have to face our problems at the root, a nation that was risen to mankind for the spread of good values, and the forbidding of evil. You write: Think about your faith, your morals, what you deem to be right and wrong (without the interference of politics, conspiracy theories or games). Think about your duties to your fellow Muslims, to yourself and to your creator Saaxiib Politics is defined the set of activities a communities undertakes to govern its resources and relationships. Separating Politics from Faith is like accepting Allah's supremacy, but denying Him the obedience of His servants in matters that He decreed, Any thing that touch my wallet, work and relationships with oppiste sex is governed by Allah, I hope that you have no problem with that. As for Conspiracy theory, I agree with you, it is nonesense, Instead I believe in the coincidence theory, the nice explanation of the Murdock Media empire that is so truthful, we should all consume their analyses becausde they are well intentioned, and honest, specially when Bush accused Al Qaeda, his own making in tghe 90s, an hour after September 11 without any investigation, in contrast, the Simpson case, a man caught redhanded on camera running away from a crime scene was aquitted, because the jury did not trust the police impartiality as they have called the blacks niggars, the Jury was needed unanimously to vote for a verdict, but an injured jury by such slander simply aquitted Simpson, Bravo for western values of due process of the law, but when it comes to Islam, a different yardstick is used, you cant have it bith way saaxib, either both sides are conspiring against each other, or no one conspiring, being one sided and self hating Muslim does not help us brother, being wise does. You write: If you still believe that this is a fight between two sides and that the actions of the weaker side are justified by the transgressions of the stronger side, then don’t play with words, hide behind slogans or arguments and stay silent Saaxiib Read this recent piece from the Guardian, then come back with your balanced interpretations: Willful and Dangerous Refusal to Face Up to Reality Seumas Milne, The Guardian In the grim days since last week’s bombing of London, the bulk of Britain’s political class and media has distinguished itself by a willful and dangerous refusal to face up to reality. Just as it was branded unpatriotic in the US after the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington to talk about the link with American policy in the Middle East, so those who have raised the evident connection between the London atrocities and Britain’s role in Iraq and Afghanistan have been denounced as traitors. And anyone who has questioned Tony Blair’s echo of George Bush’s fateful words on Sept. 11 that this was an assault on freedom and our way of life has been treated as an apologist for terror. But while some allowance could be made in the American case for the shock of the attacks, the London bombings were one of the most heavily trailed events in modern British history. We have been told repeatedly since the prime minister signed up to Bush’s war on terror that an attack on Britain was a certainty — and have had every opportunity to work out why that might be. Throughout the Afghan and Iraq wars, there has been a string of authoritative warnings about the certain boost it would give to Al-Qaeda-style terror groups. The only surprise was that the attacks were so long in coming. But when the newly elected Respect (anti-Iraq war) MP George Galloway — who might be thought to have some locus on the subject, having overturned a substantial Labour majority over Iraq in a London constituency with a large Muslim population — declared that Londoners had paid the price of a “despicable act†for the government’s failure to heed those warnings, he was accused by Defense Secretary Adam Ingram of “dipping his poisonous tongue in a pool of bloodâ€. On Wednesday, the Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy was in the dock for a far more tentative attempt to question this suffocating consensus. Even Ken Livingstone, who had warned of the danger posed to London by an invasion of Iraq, has now claimed the bombings were nothing to do with the war — something he clearly does not believe. A week on from the London outrage, this official otherworldliness is once again in full flood, as ministers and commentators express astonishment that cricket-playing British-born Muslims from suburbia could have become suicide bombers, while Blair blames an “evil ideologyâ€. The truth is that no amount of condemnation of evil and self-righteous resoluteness will stop terror attacks in the future. Respect for the victims of such atrocities is supposed to preclude open discussion of their causes in the aftermath — but that is precisely when honest debate is most needed. The wall of silence in the US after the much greater carnage of 9/11 allowed the Bush administration to set a course that has been a global disaster. And there is little sense in London that the official attitude reflects the more uncertain mood on the streets. There is every need for the kind of public mourning that took place in London yesterday, along with concerted action to halt the backlash against Muslim Britons that claimed its first life in Nottingham at the weekend. But it is an insult to the dead to mislead people about the crucial factors fueling this deadly rage in Muslim communities across the world. The first piece of disinformation long peddled by champions of the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan is that Al-Qaeda and its supporters have no demands that could possibly be met or negotiated over; that they are really motivated by a hatred of Western freedoms and way of life; and that their Islamist ideology aims at global domination. The reality was neatly summed up this week in a radio exchange between the BBC’s political editor, Andrew Marr, and its security correspondent, Frank Gardner, who was left disabled by an Al-Qaeda attack last year. Was it the “very diversity, that melting pot aspect of London†that Islamist extremists found so offensive that they wanted to kill innocent civilians in Britain’s capital, Marr wondered. “No, it’s not that,†replied Gardner briskly, who is better acquainted with Al-Qaeda thinking than most. “What they find offensive are the policies of Western governments and specifically the presence of Western troops in Muslim lands, notably Iraq and Afghanistan.†The central goal of the Al-Qaeda-inspired campaign, as its statements have regularly spelled out, is the withdrawal of US and other Western forces from the Arab and Muslim world, and an end to support for Israeli occupation of Palestinian land. Those are also goals that unite an overwhelming majority of Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere and give Al-Qaeda and its allies the chance to recruit and operate — in a way that their extreme religious conservatism or dreams of restoring the medieval caliphate never would. As even Osama Bin Laden asked in his US election-timed video: If it was Western freedom Al-Qaeda hated, “Why do we not strike Sweden?†The second disinformation line peddled by government supporters since last week’s bombings is that the London attacks had nothing to do with Iraq. The Labour MP Tony Wright insisted that such an idea was “not only nonsense, but dangerous nonsenseâ€. Blair has argued that, since the 9/11 attacks predated the Iraq war, outrage at the aggression could not have been the trigger. It’s perfectly true that Muslim anger over Palestine and the aftermath of the 1991 war against Iraq was already intense before 2001 and fueled Al-Qaeda’s campaign in the 1990s. But that was aimed at the US, not Britain, which only became a target when Blair backed Bush’s war on terror. Afghanistan made a terror attack on Britain a likelihood; Iraq made it a certainty. We can’t of course be sure of the exact balance of motivations that drove four young suicide bombers to strike last Thursday, but we can be certain that the bloodbath unleashed by Bush and Blair in Iraq — where a 7 7 takes place every day — was at the very least one of them. What they did was not “home grownâ€, but driven by a worldwide anger at US-led domination and occupation of Muslim countries. The London bombers were to blame for attacks on civilians that are neither morally nor politically defensible. But the prime minister — who was warned by British intelligence of the risks in the run-up to the war — is also responsible for knowingly putting his own people at risk in the service of a foreign power. The security crackdowns and campaign to uproot an “evil ideology†the government announced on Wednesday will not extinguish the threat. Only a British commitment to end its role in the bloody occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan is likely to do that. Saaxiib Let us see how you dismiss this one too, there are two sides to this conflict, the best way I can put it is this way Dont talk about them, if you cant talk to them . UK ignored the IRA for decades, with the same rhetoric, only to sit in front of the criminals who killed innocent British people, more than Al Qaeda did, and declared peace. Denials denials, like you say, do not change reality on the ground, so, again, you cant have it both ways saaxib. Telling us to accept and face up to our evil actions while you spread a blanket approval of all the big boys actions is regrettable, making it so difficult for one side, until such time when we can agree on a common interpretation of our faith,( Like the big boys have agreed on their world vision ) you wrote: what the West does for the benefit of its own people is justified and what some self-appointed Mullahs do for their own benefits is NOT justified. It really is simple and plain to anyone who’s not either dim or duplicitous . Do you see your duplicity here, I am smelling fish here saaxib, For them, its what they do for their poeple, for us it is what the Mullah do for themselves ! do you see how unjustly you are tilting the issue, or is it the London Fog that is blinding you? You write: Shout it out clearly and support your brothers in Jihad. If on the other hand, you think this whole thing to be wrong and not compatible with your religious beliefs or morals, denounce it, shout about how wrong it is and argue until you’re blue in the face . Saaxib I am sure we heard this question from Bush before, and before him Mussolini, ( Chi e non con me , a contra di me ) Brother, Allah provides rizq, and protects life and causes security, be true to Allah, your logic is so warped, you would have sent Moses and the oppressed Israelites to work with Pharaoh, because, their weakness was their sin, you are indeed a great deliverer of the oppressed. Nur

Viking Bro. You write: kushuku mtu kwa sababu shaka ni dhambi. Ni wapi uliona nikisema kuwa mimi ni shia? That is so true, saaxiib, Allah SWT says, " Inna bacdha al Dhanni Ithm", but to in the Sunnah we have lessons from aProphet Muhammad SAWS that qualify this commandment: It was reported that the prophet Muhammad SAWS was standing with his wife one night when a conpanion passed by them, the companion after noycing the couple, avoided them and walked away hurriedly. The Prophet SAWS then called the companion and told him, this is my wife, the companion exclaimed that he would not think bad about the Messenger of Allah, and the Prophet SAWS told him that the Devil runs in human blodd, and can influence their thinking. Lessons learned: 1. Not to pose in adubious way, always be transparent, say what you mean and mean what you say, clearnly mark where you stand on issues. In my last question to you, I saked you this question: If indeed thesed beliefs are found to be true in the Shia Madhab, do you think with your understanding of Islam that it can be a fourth Madhab? or part of Islam? The Question: 1. Given the material presented WAS FOUND TO BE TRUE an assumption, 2. Given your understanding of Islam 3. Can the Shia be a fourth Mad-hab? or part of islam? Your answer was: They are not infallible. I agree with your logic bro, but do you think that the research you have done is more than what the scholars of Al-Azhar have done from 1959 and beyond? Don't you think that they went deeper into Shi'a doctrines than you did? Some Muslims (belonging to the four madhabs) view Sufis as heretics while others don't, isn't it simply the same case here too? You have dodged my question, My question clearly assumed GIVEN THE RESEARCH WAS FOUND TO BE RIGHT, WHERE DO YOU STAND OF THEIR CLAIM TO BE A FOURTH MAD_HAB. Then you went on: We are all responsible for the choices we make in the end but we (people of SOL) aren't scholars and rely a lot of the research done by them. What we aim for in the end is to find out the truth. Which is still avoiding a clearly presented question, how can we find the truth if we are not transparent? Brother, I am still waiting an answer for my question: First Answer: YES, They can still be a 4th Mad-Hab and part of Islam Second Answer: No, They can not be a 4th Mad-hab nor part of Islam Third Answer: I dont know enough about Islam to judge them. I believe, being clear on our discussion, will facilitate and help understanding by reducing ill thinking of each other. Ndugu Yako. Nur

Bashi Bro. You write: " Gotta question for you. Do you see parallels in what the "terrorists" are doing in the West and what the nomadic rule that our Somali Anarchists have been practising time in memorial preaches: Nin la dilay nin baa loo dilaa waaa dekanadiisiiye? Last night I had a nice discussion with a fellow Somali expatriate who told me that he had a discussion with one of our cabinet Ministers of the new transitional Anarchist government of Somalia. Wallahi, what I heard was so disturbing, yet so funny, I decided I will devote my next Cag Bakayle Anarchist satire to them. "terrorist" in the west, which for now are entirely represented by "Muslims" are up to something, just like our Anarchists back home, you never know what they are up to at any given moment, whodunit? is echoing from all around, but one thing baffles my mind. Everytime the polls show that Bush or Blair are losing their popularity for their campaign, Bin Laden and Company come to their aid to do the dirty work to raise their respective popularity back up again, and on the way painting Muslims as a blood thirsty lot and the Blairites and Neocons as Da Vinci's Virgin Mary. I am going to prepare an Satirical interview with Bin Laden on this topic along with Cag Bakayle of the Somali Anarchist Declaration to see what they share in common. Please join our live webcast by the Cag Bakayle Bin Laden Group Cross Fire Discussion on Somaliaonline Anarchists Declaratioon. Nur

Viking bro. Thats right according to Hoffman, the 10,000 Bosnians laid to rest in Srebrenica with the full authorization of the UN's Butors Butros Ghali and the Dutch Army who handed these civilans to the Serbs to be killed in cold blood did not trigger international cooperation to stop this evil. Haddad bro Names will keep changing, but the sad fact is that unless the core problems are addressed equittably, the world is poised for more bloodshed, issues are swept under carpets, but those in disadvantage recognoze no law nor ethics, just like politicians who subscribe to Machiavellis theory of government. Nur

OG Girl sis If you have read this passage : " It is but seldom that any one overt act produces hostilities bewteen two nations, there exists more commonly , a previous jealousy and ill will, a predesposition to take offense ". ( Washington Irving, The sketchbook of Geoffrey Crayon) And then read this one: Injustice anywhere, is a threat to Justice anywhere, by Martin Luther King. You'd deduce: That, what is happening in London are the ripple effect of a long attrocious past engagements and conflicts where there are two parties at war, injustices that take place far from where victims have fallen without knowing why? one of the parties in conflict is well established, legitimate due to its own constituents mandate, the other is disinfranchised, illigitimate and marginalized, with grievances that are not addressed since no one recognizes them as viable parties to a conflict. So, their voice is heard in mayhem and blood on the public. But unlike teh declared Just surgical attacks of American planes in Afghanistan and Iraq that killed many a happy marriage procession, by mistake, the disadvantaged party in this war is said to have targeted the very civilians for their attacks, simply because they cannot take their anger against the more equipped adversary. As long as this situation exisits, we have the Royal Navy against pirates, of the high seas, the only difference between the two being the number of their warships and abilities. If the Royal Navy is capable of finishing off the Pirates, the problem is thus solved for one side, if not, and unless politicians brave to adopt a pragmatic solution to accomodate the greiveance of everybody touched by current policies, UK which just completed a peace plan with the more organized Irish Republican Army, who have used the same if not worse tactics then present terrorists, may have to look back at the IRA experience to draw wise lessons to save innocent lives. Every confrontation that killed many innocent lives began with the same rhetoric, but it ended with conciliatory tones as a lasting solution, how much more lives should be spent before this madness is addressed at the core? Nur