Finally, a decent thread about Samsam's case! I think the various reactions this case has elicited attest to our moral degeneration as a people (pardon the sweeping conclusion). I honestly can not determine which is more appalling. The horrific violation of a young lady in a place considered one of the few havens of safety left in our war-torn nation. The conspiratorial silence on the part of most news mediums in those parts or the manner in which the story has been incorporated into smear campaigns against Somaliland. Since most threads about Samsam in this forum fell into the latter category, I chose not to respond. I hope other nomads think twice before taking part in threads of that sort because our participation only rewards the unwholesome endeavors of those exploiting our sister's tragedy. In my view, this crime against our sister needs to be condemned along with those who have ignored her plight and those who are exploiting it. She deserves justice and I hope she receives it, in this life or the hereafter. Samsam is not the first female to have been violated in Somalia, nor will she be the last. Countless sisters have been raped and left for dead in rural ditches, in city streets and in their own homes. What justice have they received? The plight of our sisters has far too often been met with general indifference. Why has Samsam been met with such deference? I have formulated my own answers but others might want to consider these questions. I can only hope the stories of other sisters, as there almost certainly will be more, are met with equal deference.

^Walaal, thoughts of 'the' northern dialect possessing an inherent superiority, even when adequate explanations of the criteria that superiority is based upon are conveniently overlooked, seems to be quite common in social discourse so I really don't blame you for espousing that view. I do, however, disagree vehemently for a multitude of reasons, the majority of which I don't intend to bore you with, but I would like to make two brief comments. Firstly, there is no uniform northern or southern dialect. Vernacular differs among regions and, if we look closely, we would notice it tends to differ within regions too. Secondly, I think the comparison you drew earlier between colloquial af-Somali in Xamar and northern dialects is a bit unfair. Xamar has been an urban centre and the site of contact between native populations and non-Somalis for centuries. Language may have simply evolved differently there than, say, an area deep within the southern interior or more remote parts of the country. I should probably mention something else. Whether speakers are aware of it or not, spoken dialects of the north do utilize many words of non-Somali origin, typically Arabic (and Hindi to a lesser extent) because the area has a history of trade with people form those parts of the world. The adoption of foreign terms, or the 'dilution' of af-Somali as some folks would put it, is, above all else, normal because language is subject to change over time and, additionally, not unique to Xamar and its surroundings. If you meant to emphasize the differences among dialects then I completely understand walaal because they exist, but I think the languages of Somalia deserve more study and closer scrutiny before those differences can be used to purport unfair or unfounded dialectical hierarchies.

Originally posted by India: You carry the aviator of a mujahid, you can be one in your times . I don't intend to get involved in squabble concerning political ideologies, old or new, but I must make one objection. Referring to a deceased SNM combatant as a "Mujahid" is simply wrong. Claims of that sort, although they have been made repeatedly on this forum, are a distortion of historical facts. They're also grossly out of context when it comes to Islam because a Mujahid is defined as a Muslim warrior in Jihad. (A definition of the latter might be called for but I'd rather not get into that). People can try to reconstruct history as much as they want now, but neither in its inception nor at the height of its power did the SNM overtly portray itself as a revolutionary force, much less one based upon religious doctrine. They were a guerilla movement and, as far as writers of Somali history can tell, probably quite content in being just that. Otherwise, they would have altered their status; they had ample time to do so.

Shayma and Silence, The closest English translation for dumaal might be levirate marriage, but I personally don't find that definition satisfactory. As far as I know, the reasons for which dumaal is practiced and how it's practiced differ slightly from what a typical leviratic arrangement might entail in other parts of the African continent (or elsewhere because the practice can found be in many different societies, including the West). Checkmate, Walaal, the idea that a 'pure' or 'perfect' Somali vernacular not only exists but is actually represented by that of a specific region is a myth (of recent conception, I might add). There really is no pure Somali dialect, particularly when we look at the origin of words and their authenticity. Every spoken dialect of our language has some use of foreign terms, often borrowed from the languages of neighbouring countries, former colonizers or people with whom Somalis have had historic ties (ex: economic, religious, etc.). With that in mind, one dialect should not be viewed as being 'better' than another because they're all slightly diluted anyway.

MMA and J11, Thanks a lot for the information guys. I'd heard about cave paintings in Somalia before but have never seen pictures until now. It's fascinating. JSTOR is amazing, by the way. I found that archaeology report and so many more papers. Of course, finding the time to read all the material I downloaded will be a challenge, but I look forward to perusing it. Thanks again.

Well, I think the colonial influence factor was minimal for several reasons. Firstly, the script debate came into focus during a period in Somali history when the regime was widely associated with a rejection of colonialism, having initiated a cultural revival as an assertion of Somali identity and nationalism (or what could be described as an amalgamation of the two things). The script issue and its resolution are historically linked to the October Revolution for this reason, but these events came into fruition well after colonial administrators left the region. Although I can't comment on the nature of Somalia's relationship with Italy during the 1960s (because I know nothing of it), we know its relationship with Britain was strained for a number of years as a result of the border dispute with Kenya. Strained might actually be an understatement because diplomatic ties were at one point severed for about 5 years so, considering the period was one whose events could be seen as precursors to the developments of 1972, I highly doubt Britain had enough room in which to exercise its influence and dictate or even sway decisive ruling in the script debate. Nationalist said that the Osmaniya script was rejected because of its tribal association and, although I think the suggestion served little purpose beyond the attempted inflation of a marginal issue (and so can understand why it was quickly deflated), it's still valid... and because it was valid, I really don't understand the grounds upon which Mutakallim found it worth contesting. In reality, the tribal factor was given some consideration, but it was a rather superficial concern when the more serious issues brought forth in the deliberation process were taken into account. I believe the primary concern governing the final decision was one of practicality more than anything else. Printers used throughout the nation for instance (by newspapers, publishers, educational institutions, etc.), all remnants of the colonial presence, would need to be replaced if one of the native scripts were to be utilized. That would not only entail costly replacements of machinery, but would also require a reasonably lengthy period of time for those changes to take effect. The regime was aware of those potential setbacks and, opting for a solution that could be implemented quickly and with minimal expense, the Latin script was chosen for largely practical reasons... with a few modifications here and there to fully accommodate the Somali language.

Brother Mutakalim, I don’t think the “influence of colonial masters†to which you attributed the adoption of a national orthography based on the Latin script had significance of that magnitude.

Flashes of annoyance, anger and even embarrassment might be understandable with the mere mention of her name but there are far too many threads being devoted to this woman, her politics and her publicity stunts. Enough. Please. She is not worth it. If the urge to share updates about Ayaan's latest antics becomes irrepressible then, please folks, revive one of existing threads about her (there are plenty to choose from!) instead of creating a new one every time. That's all. PS - Would it be inappropriate or hypocritical to direct your attention to this under the gauze of comic relief?

Raami, Believe me, walaal, I'm as uncomfortable in shouldering praise as you are in dispensing it. More so, I would say, but thank you for the kind words - the appreciation is mutual. I’m probably not alone in finding your contributions unique in their sharp wit and vitality. Mohamed, Brother, as I've suggested already, a distinction needs to be drawn between what the Somaliweyn ideology is about (ex: unity, brotherhood, etc.) and what some people think it's about (ex: hating Somaliland, certain groups from the region, etc.) because the existing conflation of the two offers little hope and is, well, disturbing. My comments were a response to what I think is a misrepresentation of an ideology based, if nothing else, on good intentions by people who've either lost sight of its true meaning or who, having already pledged their deepest loyalties to other concepts (i.e. tribalism), are merely taking expedient shelter in its label. In case we've lost perspective, the idea of Somaliweyn was forged as part of an attempt to construct a common platform upon which all Somalis could meet and eventually unite. It was never meant to be a mask of convenience for tribalists who, I should add, just might succeed in completely confounding and deconstructing the ideology from within. In saying this, walaal, it’s neither my intent to accuse you of being a perpetrator nor to attach accusations of a tribalist mentality to your name. The statements you made in your first post under this thread, bearing little subtly, were plain for all to read and judge so recapitulations on my part are unnecessary. The idea was to offer honest and constructive criticism because, to me at least, you appeared to have an ill-defined understanding of what it means to support Somaliweyn. I’m simply suggesting that you rethink your approach because if there is an obvious disparity between an ideology and an espouser's understanding of it, or how that understanding is applied, then something is almost certainly wrong.

Mohamed, Brother, your comments honestly don't warrant a second look, much less a response, but I'll offer a simple reminder. The Somaliweyn ideology, noble in its intent, is not about hate of any sort, least of all the tribal variety. I find your line of thought, along with that of more than a few other characters on this site, exasperating. If you are the supposed proponent of an ideology that seeks to bridge differences and unite all Somalis, why undermine its aspirations and chip away at its foundation of goodwill by professing to hate particular groups of Somalis? *Sigh* For the sake of maintaining sanity, I suppose there is little else to do but to differentiate between the Somaliweyn ideology in its intended form and the contorted interpretations propagated by confused youth who, in their misdirected frustration, haunt an otherwise respectable website such as this, leaving trails of questionable material and disagreeable ideas in their wake. Frankly, this constant yet necessary sifting through masked 'ideologues', who're trying to shroud conflicting beliefs with the same taut banner, is really getting tiring. Lander, Thanks for the clarification. I have a better understanding of what you're trying to do. Well, there isn't much I can say about East Timor because I'm not familiar with its history, but Eritrea sounds like it might draw a decent comparison. I'm guessing the focus of your essay is Somaliland's case for secession with the assumed finish line being that marked recognition, but perhaps you should also delve into issues that may arise in its future. Then again, doing so might stray off-topic. I just think it would be better to approach it with an understanding that Somaliland's problems will not disappear upon a legitimization of its nationhood. If you were to use Eritrea as the second example, you might also have to take its recent transition into dictatorship into consideration. Somaliland's own budding streak of authoritarianism isn't exactly promising, especially when one considers the eerie sort of complacence some people have already lulled themselves into. Whether you choose to discuss those foreboding issues, and how they can be circumvented, or not is really up to you. Anyway, I finished one stressful essay assignment this week and roughly half of my references were journals and papers, all of which were available online. One good source was The Taylor & Francis Group, an archive of e-journals, papers and articles. To give you an idea of what you might find there, I initiated a search on "Eritrea" and received 370 results. A search on "East Timor" returned 657 results and one for "Somaliland" returned 84. Take a look. You should try gaining access through your school library account, otherwise you might have to register.

Lander, Try looking for these two books: Secession: The Morality of Political Divorce from Fort Sumter to Lithuania and Québec - Allen E. Buchanan The Economics of Secession - Milica Zarkovic Bookman How about Spain and the Basque region for your second example? I don’t know if it will work. It depends on whether you’re looking for an example of a peaceful secession (few), or one culminating in civil war (many), or one that is still in limbo. Maybe you should try something closer to home... Québec?

Sister, I lost faith in Somali news mediums long ago and it appears the same is now true for you, but I would suggest that you also coat your sensibilities with a healthy measure of suspicion when reading about Somali history in general, including the ‘academic’ accounts with which you might otherwise be tempted to let your guard down. There are a lot of people, Somali and otherwise, who are trying to reshape history so that it fits neatly into their current political agenda. Be aware and proceed with caution.

NGONGE, I've often wondered why people speak repetitively of the 'good life' in Somaliland when poverty is still the norm. In talking to those who have paid recent visits, all one hears about are businesses, large homes, vehicles, and the other inanimate objects used to give value to human life. I'm beginning to think the term ciidan (the domestic sort) epitomizes the ultimate aspirations of this new generation, which seems to be comprised largely of those who have returned from the west, and their budding bourgeois mentality. There's nothing wrong with wanting to live comfortably. What I cannot undestand is the obsession with excess, particularly when the living conditions of so many are still inadequate at best.

@ Rahima, you cracked me up. The brother above, and any impending guardians of the Colonel's 'honour' (or whatever it is you're defending), do give it a rest. The insignificance of the man's age has already been established because most are aware of it being a non-issue in our part of the world. The brother who initiated this thread is trying to determine what makes men influential in Somalia, so let's move in that direction now.

I don’t think designated historical sites or relics exist in Somalia at the moment. The monuments and statues of the capital city come to mind, but they’ve probably either been damaged or destroyed by now. In any case, they were merely symbolic representations of events with historical significance, not actual relics. So the simple answer to your question then, as far as I know, is no. If it's any consolation, there are numerous towns and cities with historical significance. Muqdisho, Zaylac, Baraawe, and Warsheikh are a few that come to mind. A look into the research of certain academic disciplines might yield more fruitful results... I’m thinking mainly of archaeology and history in the context of East Africa. Research of an archaeological nature has been conducted in Somalia sporadically since the 1970s as far as I know, but it probably dates to earlier periods. You could begin by searching for the contributions of the late Dr. Neville Chittick. He was a leading archaeologist who worked in Somalia (mainly during the 1970s and early ‘80s I think), but he worked extensively throughout the whole of East Africa so it’s shouldn’t be too difficult to find something on him.

Safi, I know don't of any Somali women's associations in this country, but I did a little search online and here are some of the organizations/agencies that come up: Horn of Africa Women's Organization - Ottawa Ottawa Somali Women's Organization (OSWO) - Ottawa Somali Canadian Women’s Developmental Organization - (?) Somali Centre for Youth, Women, and Community Development - Ottawa Somali Women's Organization - Toronto Somaliland Women's Organization - Toronto I came across the names of many others that weren't concerned exclusively with women, many of which where based in Ottawa (the capital). There's another association called Midaynta here in Toronto. It's an umbrella group under which numerous local Somali agencies (eg. Somali Women's Organization) are grouped.

"Rag badan oo middad kaladuwan leh ayaa Kursiga isu soo sharaxay... niman Soomaalida dhexdeeda aad caan uga ah, oo maqaalkoodu dadka dhagaha aad ugu batay; niman an aadna loo aqoonin, maqaalka dadka seex an marti ku ahayn; iyo kuwa saddexaad oo ah dhawr sumadlawayaal ah oo markaad ruux ku tirahdid hebel ayaa sharaxan, mar iyo laba uu ku odhanayo... yaah?" For some reason I found that part hilarious. Maybe it was the delivery.

^You're an odd one (I have the Labadhagax thing in mind). Cumar Dhuule - Dayax Gamceed - Does this one qualify as Qaraami :confused: Cumar Dhuule - Jowhar Luula Cumar Dhuule - Xaragada u Dhalataay Jowhar Luula was Heesta Manta on Hiiran for well over a month. It's been changed now, but I just found that a bit humorous.

Originally posted by AYOUB_SHEIKH: I also tried but failed to get the original version of gabbal daye I couldn’t find the original version either. It was supposed to have been a duet between Khadra Dahir and Maxamed Mooge, but so far I’ve only come across a solo of Khadra’s part and another solo of what was once Mooge’s part sung by Cabdulqaadir Bagaag. I've made an attempt at reconstructing the original song using fragmented recordings, omitting any verses repeated in the solos and leaving notes in their place. I'm uncertain of the accuracy of all lyrics in bold print, either because the singer's voice became inaudiable or their enounciation was too difficult to comprehend, so feel free to make corrections nomads. Gabal Daye solos: Khadra Dahir + Cabdulqadir Bagaag Bayt 1 Khadra: Adoo gole ka maagloo Haweenkaba ka gaabsaday Sawtaan ku gadabaray Garta iyo tusaalaha Adigoon gorfayn karin Sawtaan geesi kaa dhigay {Both verses repeated once} Go'e halaq miyaad tahay Hadba marada ii gala Gododlayntu waa maxay Waad iga gardarante {Verse repeated} Waan kaa gadoome, ha goohin Waanan kugu galaynine, ha guuxin Waan guurayaaye i gees mar Bayt 2 Mooge/Bagaag: Sawnigi gu'yaal badan Ku gubey aduunye Gadhka aan ku laalna Gurad iyo nacaybshaha Gacanto ad saydhtiyo Maxay baday galiliyada {Both verses repeated once} Gabbal daye miyaad tahay Hadba gees ujeedsada Wa maxay galgalashadu Waad ila guracante {Verse repeated} Gaban maayo caaye, ha gadmin Waan ku garabsocda ee ha goosan Waan soo gadome, ha guurin {Verse repeated} Bayt 3 Khadra Dahir: Gurgurkii la daanshe Loo tiriyey guulke Intu matadii gabay Gibisha iyo heeryada Ilki-kula-gadood iyo Abalgabe ha noqonine {Both verses repeated once} Go'e halaq miyaad tahay Hadba marada ii gala Gododlayntu waa maxay Waad iga gardarante {Verse repeated} Waan kaa gadoome, ha goohin Waanan kugu galaynine, ha guuxin Waan guurayaaye i gees mar {Verse repeated twice} Bayt 4 Mooge/Bagaag: Gar'alle Dadweynow Arrin loo garaab iyo Miyeey tahay mid gocasho leh Maxaad ani ii gadabari Sawdigan gareyski iyo Sii xidhan gambada wali {Both verses repeated once} Gabbal daye miyaad tahay Hadba gees ujeedsada Wa maxay galgalashadu Waad ila guracante {Verse repeated} Gaban maayo caaye, ha gadmin Waan ku garabsocda ee ha goosan Waan soo gadome, ha guurin {Verse repeated, last line repeated twice as song ends}

SisSade, thank you.

I just have one question. Is the word "Sujui" politically incorrect or offensive in any way? I always thought the term seemed a bit rude, but maybe I was wrong in that presumption. Care to clarify for me?

I don't really agree with af-Somali being “stagnantâ€. Even if its validity were incontestable, the assertion seems to stop just short of suggesting there’s an inherent deficiency making the language so (i.e. that it’s ‘primitive’). As far as I know, human languages are equal when it come to their most basic components (it’s called “grammatical parity†or something like that) and every language has the capacity to expand its vocabulary, so we’d be on the verge of err if we were to take one language as being more ‘advanced’ than another simply because it has a greater selection of scientific or technological terms. As Viking already suggested, the expansion of grammar is very much a reflection of the domain in which it’s forged and, in that sense, its progression might only occur naturally in time as the social conditions shaping it shift and change. Also, when we talk of the Somali language having been interwoven with non-Somali terms or ‘diluted’ as some would say, I get the feeling that I’m venturing into a fog of uncertainty because my knowledge of the topic is so… limited. Maybe these exchanges have always been inevitable considering the geographical crossroads on which Somalia is sprawled, so they might not only be OK but things that can actually be excepted. Moreover, this adoption of non-Somali terms in itself might demonstrate the language is still growing and moving - perhaps not in a direction that some “traditionalists†would like, but moving nonetheless – and it, as a result, cannot be stagnant… or not. I’m not exactly sure, it could just depend on who you ask because people seem to have different views on what they think is/isn’t acceptable af-Somali. As I’ve said before, I’m not an expert on this so pardon my confusion... But what I really wanted to say was that there really is no pristine state from which the Somali language has deteriorated so we shouldn’t think that its present form is somehow inferior to an earlier form, of which we have no/little knowledge, yet which is presumably ‘perfect’ or ‘better’. That’s all. Interesting topic by the way...

Although I agree that the conditions fostered by the nature of our patriarchal, clan-based society and our nation’s statelessness have coupled to create imbalances which weigh heavily towards the suffering of females, it does not necessarily mean that suffering will cease as soon as 'Somali men get their act together'. Families might see a reduction in domestic problems whose causations are Qaat-related, but women and their issues would still remain an afterthought in social and political discourse. I think that dilemma calls for other remedies, which have more to with mobilizing women for their own causes… as opposed to waiting around for the men and whatever handoffs they may or may not offer, if or when they spring into action. P.S. – I completely agree with your views on Qaat. I wish more people saw it for what it really is (i.e. a drug). I recently listened to the broadcast of a lecture by Sheikh Mustafe Ismaciil X. Haarun. He likened Somalia’s Qaat problem to China’s Opium War of the 19th Century… it was interesting.

I have many shortcomings, but I sometimes worry about a specific one of them because it has the greatest potential to alter the direction of my life when compared to the others. It has to do with being a leader. It’s not that I lack whatever courage, competence, or skills it might take to be a leader either. I lack the desire to lead. Based on past experiences, being in a position of leadership always becomes a massive burden that I end up detesting innumerably, but I still manage to endure it until the task or endeavor is brought to an appropriate end. I think it has something do with me being the finicky, perfectionist type. I enjoy being on my own and working independently, but I hate the responsibility for other people (and their mistakes) that leadership always manages to place on my lap. Don't mind me Nefertiti, I'm just unloading my worries at your doorstep... Damn, where’s Dr. Phil when you need him?

Waryaa Dude – Thanks, but there are other nomads who're much more deserving of such a compliment. Ayoub Sheikh, Sorry for the tardy reply. I’ve been avoiding the politics arena lately, but that's another story in itself. Moving on... If you recall, I said “there’s also an air of hypocrisy in this article, which seems to imply that Somaliland can do not wrongâ€. The vast difference between insinuations and unambiguous propositions being apparent, it may be needless of me to point to the phrasing of that statement as having been enough to indicate it being largely interpretational on my part. You’re absolutely right though, the author of the article did not explicitly say whether or not he supports the deportation of Somalis from the 5th territory. He did, however, list a series of perceived injustices committed against Somaliland, one of which he said was when Djibouti “deported our refugees by the droves to Somalia, only to be slaughtered…â€. It goes without saying that governments typically make decisions with none but their own interests as a primary motive (at least one would assume), but Mr. Farah appeared to be asserting that Djibouti’s perpetual “hostilities†against Somaliland – or what it has managed to do purely or primarily for the sake of furthering its own interests in the Horn, regardless of how such measures may affect its regional neighbours – is somehow more sinister than the analogous actions carried out by others in the region (Somaliland‘s deportation of people from the 5th territory having been one such example). The author attempted to demonize one governing body for the political measures they’ve taken, while appearing unmindfully supportive of another that does the very same things… as if the group with which he has sided can claim an unmatched air of virtue. It’s the epitome of a hypocrisy many people practice when blindly defending or promoting the politics of ‘their own’ (nation, region, tribe, whatever) that I find completely distasteful. Considering how dreadfully noticeable it is as a motivating force behind the views expressed in the article, I don’t know how anyone can ignore it with honesty and good conscience. In my opinion, the views expressed in the article present (and are indicative of one with) a limited outlook… a narrow, yet discernable outlook which almost begs any reasonable reader to unconsciously conclude it’s linked to ‘solutions’ that are just as limited, if not more so. I’ve never considered the prospect of skinning Djibouti so, as far as alternate solutions go, I have none to offer. If anything, I’d only suggest that people abandon (or at least avoid) the sort of one-sided thinking that permeates this article and learn to develop more balanced perspectives as an initiative to better understanding ourselves, our neighbours, and the world in general. Salaama.