Ayoub Sheikh, I think the Mbagathi conference as a whole is fundamentally flawed. Regardless of how many seats are allocated to women, a government built on weak foundations can expect the roof to come crashing down. If there’s one lesson that should be learned from reconciliation conferences of the past, it’s that hurried processes will not solve the complex problems of Somalis. As far as Asha Ahmed Abdalla is concerned, although I don't agree with some of her views, I think she's one of the few voices of reason left in Somali politics. She seems sincere, which is something I can of few politicians. Whether she calls herself a woman politician or not is entirely up to her. Titles mean little these days. After all, there're plenty of old timers and warlords who're still clutching to their old titles of 'general' and such. Salaamz.

It’s said 'there is a time and place for everything’, but I wonder if the saying has fallen on deaf ears. Talk of Somali politics and/or tribalism consistently shows up at the most inappropriate of places and times (at wedding ceremonies, social gatherings, etc.). And on some occasions, seemingly inappropriate remarks are heard from the most unlikely of people. For instance, in this city, there’s at least one Somali wadaad who incorporates anti-Somaliland rhetoric into his sermons. A wadaad is entitled to his opinion on political matters, as are all other individuals. With that said, let’s put side the nature of his remarks for the moment (regardless of whether they be anti-Somaliland, anti-Ethiopia, etc.). Instead, let’s focus on several other factors which might help prevent a future discussion from veering off course: namely, the role/influence of religious leaders and, thus, the weight of their words; as well as the purpose of a mosque and the presence of political discourse in such a place of worship. Keeping those things in mind, my questions to nomads and aliens alike are the following: Firstly, what place (if any) does or should politics have in a place of worship? Secondly, do religious leaders have a right to incorporate political remarks into their sermons (keeping in mind those remarks are against members of their own religious community)? And thirdly, do religious leaders have a moral obligation to remain objective or at least tight-lipped about political issues which have a potential to cause splits within a Muslim community… or should they be allowed to speak freely, like all other individuals? I’ll share my views on this issue in due time. Salaamz.

Read the online version of Fazal Sheikh's "A Camel for the Son", which chronicles the experiences of Somalis in Kenyan refugee camps during the 1990s. Englishhref> | Somalihref> Several brave women share their very tragic experiences, so brace yourselves. Allah (swt) knows and sees all, so may He reward the needless suffering of all these sisters and those who're still being victimized. Salaamz.

I've read posts referring to the Politics section as being the "men's forum" and found myself repressing the urge to roll my eyes. On more than one occasion, I've also read posts in which nomads discussing politics referred to the progress in certain Somali regions as being the result of action... saying something along the lines of 'we left the talking to women'. I kept my peace the first time but, upon seeing the same remarks being evoked repeatedly, I felt the need to express my thoughts. The latter remark especially seems to imply one of two things (or both): firstly, it implies women are good for nothing other than talk; and, secondly, it implies the progress made in certain Somali regions is a product of men's actions alone. In my opinion, both arguments are based on unfounded logic and sheer fallacy. Traditionally and even today women don't have a large active role in political decision-making. The reasons why are open for debate, but let's not belittle women's contribution to all other aspects of Somali society/economy. More often than not, particularly since the collapse of the old regime, women have played a pivotal role in keeping Somali economies from vanishing into oblivion. And let's keep in mind that they're the least culpable group when it comes to the civil wars that have torn our nation apart, yet they're often those who suffer most. They've endured (and, in many places, still are enduring) more tragedies than ever, while their suffering is usually hushed. They're the silent, often underappreciated heroes who carry the burdens of a broken nation on their backs... and they do so with the outmost grace and diligence. (Male) Nomads ought to consider the meaning and weight of their words before they imply that all Somali women are good for is talk. I can point to events spanning the last 13 years during which men's decision-making has proven to be nothing but empty rhetoric, but let's not go there. In reality, women are not marching through the streets of Muqdisho, Hargeysa, or Bossaso demanding appreciation. They have more important things to worry about, such as putting food in their children's mouths. Overlooking women's contributions is one thing - and it actually seems to be a norm in our society - but denying it is a completely different matter. Men can tell each other whatever they like while they sit in cafes or squabble endlessly in the "men's forums". But let's keep in mind that, when all's said and done, we were all brought into this world by a woman and ninwalba naagbu uu hoyda. Salaama.

It's been argued that 'truth' is subjective, but I have to disagree. I don't believe it to be a subjective concept because I think - regardless of how many differing arguments are raised - pure or unquestionable truth exists. The fact that we aren't always able to grasp it doesn't make it any less real. I think what remain subjective are people's interpretations of it or what they consider 'truth' which may or may not be accurate, in accordance with pure truth. But the search for truth (political or otherwise) isn't extraordinarily difficult. In reality, we don't need to look far for pure truth because it was given to us in the form of the Qur'an. If you consider the major plagues of Somali society, you notice they're cultural fabrications invented and kept in place by us. You could say they're related to a lack of truth because they're often un-Islamic practices. The problems being: either people don't know, care, or accept those practices to be un-Islamic. The lack of truth in politics seems reflective of our society as a whole. Moreover, HornAfrique made a good point in stating that what we need is not a political revolution, but a cultural/social one. I think the most effective way in which to cause such a revolution is through education because in educating people you're essentially teaching them how to think. You're giving them the tools with which to form their own interpretations of truth, which is far better than having them blindly follow dhaqan with its share of both good and bad. Salaamz.

Winger, I'm sorry to hear about your aunt's passing. I hope you and your family can find faith and patience during this ordeal. And may your aunt be rewarded with peace in Jannah. Salaamz.

Originally posted by Sophist: Hadii Soomalinimo aad diideen, dee Waa lakum diinakum Waliyadiin. Sophist. Secession is already a heated topic, let's not throw more fuel onto the fire with talk of false issues. Last time I checked, separatists were seeking a political breakaway... not a cultural one. If you're implying those who seek secession (Somalilanders in this case) are rejecting 'Somalinimo', then you're simply mistaken. Equating being Somali (a cultural/ethnic identity) with being a part of 'greater Somalia' (a political entity) is quite a clever ploy... but it does little to simplify or even address the complex underlying issues. Salaamz.

I think a grassroots Islamic revolution is possible. Whether it entails the establishment if a second Islamic Khalifat, I don’t really know. In any event, I don’t think Muslims are completely ready for one at the moment. Before a transformation of such a large scale can take shape in the Ummah, I think it has to occur on an individual level… then grow to the communal level, etc. There’s a lot of truth to what brother Zaylici said about many Muslims being of the mentality that external forces (mainly the West) are the roots of all their problems. Consequently, too many believe their suffering (whether it be at the hands of Westerners or those put in place to carry out their will in the Muslim world) is part of Allah’s ‘test’. And in a sense, it is. But in addition to that is a passive mentality, which has taught people to tolerate and endure the many problems in their midst… as opposed to fix them. It’s said that Allah helps those who help themselves. And only after people initiate change (regardless of how small) and show a willingness to improve their plights should they expect Allah to help them. But to answer the question, I think an Islamic revolution is very possible. Salaamz.

Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: If you don't see the comparison between Tamils and Tutsis on one side and the Somalilanders on the other, I suggest you spend some time in the library! Again, I don’t see what Tamils and Tutsis have to with do Somali issues. I can understand why you would want to draw a comparison between those situations. But I think Somali issues are complex enough and there’s no need to make them even more confusing by bringing the problems of other African nations and South Asians into the equation. Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: I've responded to you in a polite manner and took time to explain things to you. Oh, is that a fact? Let’s see... among other things you’ve called me ignorant, weak, and pathetic. If that’s your definition of the term polite, I suggest you look it up again. I usually keep my negative comments to myself, but since you started the personal attacks... I think you have extremely distorted views. Your so-called ‘facts’ have more holes in them than a homeless man’s shirt and you’re oddly fond of getting off-topic, confusing your already incomprehensible blabber with that of completely unrelated issues. And to top it all off, you seem to believe that every thought you present is pure and undeniable truth... so you get all hot and bothered when someone opposes your views, saying they’re wasting your “precious time”. Not to mention the fact that your posts seem to lack every hint of the slightest forethought, making your views seem impulsive and completely narrow-minded. Later, when people point out your fallacies, instead of accepting your mistakes and taking the heat like a mature human being… you edit your posts and deny it all. This forum has a close community and people like you are hard to miss, so don’t make me laugh. You’ve been taking a crap on every corner of SOL politics since you joined. You’re one of the most irrational and misinformed individuals I’ve ever had the misfortune of coming across on the net. If you can’t take criticism and are looking for zombies who’ll nod in agreement with every word you write, then don’t bother interacting with humans... get a pet. I’m getting tired of responding to your unbelievably senseless posts and your irrationality seems boundless, so I’ll save the rest of my by words for a more worthy cause. Salaamz.

Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: Are you talking about me? Did my debate with you in the thread "Jeneraal Maxamed Siciid Xirsi Morgan oo Muqdisha soo gaaray " have a deep impact on you? Don't flatter yourself bro. The posts of numerous SOL members have had a positive impact on me, but unfortunately you're not among them. And if you must know, I wasn't refering to you. I wrote this post the day before I replied to the one about Morgan in Muqdisho. But don't take my word for it, look at their dates if you must. By the way, you're more than welcome to put your foot down on the mass graves issue. If you haven't yet realized I'm not questioning your right to have an opinion, I'm question the opinion itself. Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: Your response on my question reminds me of Benjamin Netanyahu. Really? Am I supposed to be 'deeply impacted' by this comment of yours as well? Excuse me while I roll into a fetal position and cry... Salaamz.

Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: “…first of all you guys are abandoning your Somali brothers in a way.” Firstly, I don’t recall referring to myself as a Somalilander, do you? But you can keep making assumptions if that floats your boat. Secondly, I think many Somalilanders would be quick to point out that they were 'abandoned' long ago. Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: “Somalia's territorial integrity and sovereignty is sacred and not to be questioned…” To be honest, this statement itself is questionable. If you recall, Somaliland and Somalia proper were once under separate colonial rule. And before union, legal contracts were agreed upon by both regions. One of the reasons why Somalilanders are calling for independence is because parts of that agreement were violated by Siyaad Barre’s regime. Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: “Every Somali has agreed on that and supposed unresearched genocide is not a valid argument, looking at other peoples like Tamils, Kurds, Tutsis and sofort.” I fail to see what Tamils and Tutsis have to do with this issue, so I won’t comment on them. But if I were you, I would refrain from denying the genocide which took place. Not only are those remarks false, they do absolutely nothing to help the Somali Weyn cause. But if you want proof … you simply can start by taking the veil of prejudice off your eyes and opening them to the truth. Do you not have friends or acquaintances that lived in Somaliland during the 20 years of Siyaad Barre’s rule? If yes, then I suggest you have a chat with them about what they or their relatives experienced. And as far as it being “unresearched” as you put it, there is actually an investigating body known as the War Criminals Committee in Somaliland which is compiling research on the genocide as we speak. Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: “…present day Somalilanders enjoyed peace and stability and were staunch supporters of Siyaad Barre's military dictatorship.” If you want to talk about anything being ‘criminal’, let’s start with the logic of this statement. It alone proves you know next to nothing about the long list of grievances presented by Somalilanders in the case for their independence. Whether they want to admit it or not, Somalis know that Siyaad Barre only helped those of his tribe. He, his in-laws, and those close to them were the only beneficiaries of that regime and their interests lay mainly in building/modernizing the south while the north remained in shambles. For instance, until Somaliland broke away, I think there was only one major road in there and it was built by the British during colonial times. But Jaamac, you can make whatever claims you want. I could even claim Somalilanders made a pact with the devil and they’re currently building a space station with him on mars. But without proof… hopefully, you see where I’m headed with this. Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: “Puntland even warned that this would be also the fate of Somaliland… Ironically Somaliland elders responded by saying that such statement is not true and that Siyaad Barre and his clan were noble and knightly.” Jaamac, the conversations you have in your head don’t necessarily reflect reality. And as far as the rest of your post in concerned, it appears you’re simply making your case for how great Puntland is… and I’m not surprised… so by all means, go right ahead. Salaamz.

Originally posted by Jaamac_Bootaan: This is the good thing of Somaliland; they bring other Somalis closer together with their criminal idea of seccesion! If by that you mean, a few hungry warlords who would otherwise be drinking each other's blood now have a common cause (i.e. to 'get Somaliland')... then I would agree. But all the talk of Somaliland is a good way to make people forget about the many problems eating away at Somalia's core, is it not? Instead of preoccupying their minds with what's happening on the other side of the Horn, people need to fix the problems within their midst. They should start by getting rid of Morgan and others like him. BTW - I've heard the pro-Somaliland camp's case for wanting to separate. Please do explain how you think it's 'criminal'... Salaamz.

lol @ rudy, It's wasn't a happy ending that's for sure. You never heard of how he ended up? Let's just say he suffered a lot and died very unhappy. People say he died of love or heart-break, but in reality I think his body just wore out cause he was starving himself. As far as why he never "scored", well her parents got in the way. He asked them for her hand in marriage... and they refused! Cause he was a baker and they thought he was too poor for their standards (I guess they were kinda well-off). Instead, they married her to some guy who worked for the British colonialists (they lived in Burco). Salaamz.

Libaax, I don't know the math prof.'s full name, but I think he was commonly known as "Professor Caalin/Caalim". He used to teach at the University of Lafoole.

For those of us who often browse through the politics sections, a quick glance around lets you know who the 'regulars' are in this corner of SOL. But in my view, there's a disheartening trend going on here. The fact that people are discussing important issues and having debates is nice. But I think there is cause for concern regarding the manner in which some engage in such discussions. Whether you know it or not, I think some of you are causing an even greater rift between Somalis of differing regions. Not only is your political discourse disturbing, it’s also destructive. With that said, I’m not going to single anyone out or name names… but I’d like to offer a few suggestions. 1) Speak for yourself: Too often, some people try to speak for whole regions. Firstly, it’s naïve to assume those from your particular region share your political views. Secondly, you have no authority to speak for such large groups of people. So instead of speaking for all Puntlanders, all Somalilanders, or all those from Somalia proper... just speak for yourself. 2) Understand where the 'others' are coming from: Some of you seem oblivious to the genuine concerns of your political opponents. Yet, for whatever prejudice or hidden agenda you carry against the 'others', you never fail to disagree with them... merely for the sake of argument. For instance: One particular Somali Weyn supporter dismissed evidence of the genocide against people in Somaliland.... saying something to the effect of 'oh, those bones could belong to anyone'. Now exactly how do such baseless remarks help the Somali Weyn cause? Instead of bringing Somalis together, do they not cause more reason for some to separate themselves from the rest? Meanwhile, some Somaliland supporters make unrealistic comparisons between Somalia proper and Somaliland. But how can such individuals overlook certain factors at play in Somalia proper (and not in the North), which are directly/indirectly undermining and even preventing progress (ex: warlords)? My suggestion to you all is simple; at least understand where the ‘others’ are coming from before you talk about them or, worse yet, oppose them with such vigor. 3) Choose your words carefully: I think it’s safe to say those of us living outside Somalia (like many still in it) are generally powerless. By that I mean we have no authority with which to cause immediate change in the Horn. What we can (and often) do is talk… discuss, debate. But we need to be careful and choose our words carefully, so as not to create rifts between ourselves and other Somalis. That is, if we have any genuine concerns for the well-being of all Somalis. Salaamz.

I'm not as optimistic as Jaamac. If the Republicans cheated to get Bush into the White House, I think they'll cheat again to get keep him in it for another 4 years. It seems far-fetched, I know. Cause anyone with their eyes open would notice... but when major sectors of the media and the government are making dual efforts to misinform their own people, anything is possible. Jaamac, what was that you said about Usama? I haven't heard that story, but it seems likely enough. It's basically the same thing they did to Saddam (if it was really him). They caught him early on, then waited for the most convenient time (ie. when talks of another corporate scandal linked to keys players in the Bush Administration ignited) to reveal their surprise.

Originally posted by camel_ksses: Box 109, 365 Roncesvalles Avenue, Toronto M6R 2M8 Tel:416-837-2218 Fake phone number. I dialed it and got the answering machine for a renovation company. CK - Please do stop wasting your time by filling the forum with gibberish about a fictitious organization. Salaamz.

Love or lust? Well, I think the story of Cilmi Boodhari and Hodan is kind of complex and I find it difficult to classify it as this or that without taking various factors into account. Of those two options, I'm leaning towards love (and even that is arguable) but I don't believe his tragic life was motivated by lust. His poetry evokes the feelings of a man who was wallowing in a deeply troubled state. So we have to keep in mind that he suffered considerably, both emotionally and physically (lack of sleep and bad eating habits over a long period of time), even though his suffering was largely self-induced. People don't normally put themselves through so much pain and hardship for lust. As well, his affection for her was apparently long-term. And I could be wrong but I'm assuming lust is a short-term thing, which is rather fleeting when compared to genuine or even endless love. So in my view, lust had little (if anything) to do with it. It was "love". That his affection was not reciprocated doesn't make it any less real, but love of what nature is what I'm wondering. Salaamz.

I used to visit Sanaag too, but apparently the site's been taken down. I have no idea why... but I hope they put it back up sometime, it had one of the better Somali music sections on the net. Bye.

Interesting question Liqaye… In my view, morals are a product of character. I don’t think a person’s moral standards are related to their means of living. In other words, a poor person isn’t necessarily more likely to steal or lie as a middle-class or wealthy person. Although poor individuals sometimes steal for survival, the rich also steal out of greed. Moreover, there are people who commit theft and other immoral acts not out of necessity, but for sheer sport or for the ‘thrill’. So… to answer your question I would say yes – one can maintain moral standards without an ordinary means of living. Salaamz.

Sitting under a fruitless tree A nomad scratches his in contemplation As the sun’s glare burns his skin He wonders if life’s his damnation And if death holds rewards for him Counting himself among many 'victims' Of wars, loss, turmoil and injustice But does the blood spilt not stain everyone's hands? Or is he truly innocent… faultless Is that how God sees him? Mortal memory, how convenient it is Has he forgotten his role in the scheme? Or is he being deceptive… His guilt is he trying to conceal? Dismissing how he and those before him Conceived and - from its infancy - bred the beast Fed it with arrogance and pride Till it awoke, blood-thirsty, for its feast… And how he loved it more than his neighbors Fought for it more than his deen Made excuses for its existence This vile thing called qabiil (Salaamz.)

My suggestion is that you... BE YOURSELF. Woah! Mind-blowing isn't it?! Lol, actually Headcase sounds fun (if you're actually serious about the identity change). But before you take on a new personality, why don't you start by fixing that darn avatar of yours. Salaamz.

Lol, I think some of the ladies above have expressed my initial thoughts about this thread... Welcome to SOL Jaamac - Enjoy your stay... oh, and watch your step (especially in the women's section) because it's a minefield of opinions. Salaamz.

Very interesting topic Jamaal... I don’t believe the nomadic way of life is in our genes. I think leading pastoral lifestyles was one of the ways in which Somalis chose to adapt to harsh environmental surroundings. But it must be kept in mind that not all Somalis were nomads. Some developed agriculture where possible. Of the two, I think farming is better simply because constant moving - without ever settling in one place for a long period of time (if not indefinitely) - resulted in an accumulation of profound miseries for Somali nomads. I agree the nomadic way of life is harsh and alters one's attitude. And although those traits you mentioned (ex: impatience, lack of gratitude, disregard for laws, arrogance, etc.) are expressed by all kinds of people, with many Somalis they seem to be turned up few notches. Whether it’s good or bad really depends on the situation. For instance, some traits educed by nomadic life (ex: toughness) have come in handy when fighting foreigners…but, more often than not, we fight amongst ourselves. Salaamz.

Pearl, You were lucky that time sis, but masha'allah nothing more serious happened and hopefully you've learned something from that experience. In this particular case, I don't think the police would have done anything to him if you'd reported him... afer all, he didn't touch you, he just stared (however creepy it may have been). But you did the right thing by telling your mother, and she also did a great thing by informing his boss. My advice to you is if a situation ever arises in which you feel a strong need to call the police or report something serious... then do it! It doesn't matter if the person's a Muslim or not. Besides, if this guy can't control himself during the last 10 days of Ramadan... who knows what he's capable of? Oh, and the best way to avoid situations like this is to take yourself out of the equation. Never leave yourself alone with any man you're not closely related to, regardless of whether he's Arab, Somali, or whatever. Salaamz.