Ud, ur apparently on a pedestal that a mere woman who cannot debate can't reach. Pass me the rope so i can climb to the ignorant tree u currently reside in. Instead of plainly answering the person who posted this topic, either a yay or nay for a men's forum, u just had to dig ur mysogynist pockets and come up with ludricrous comments. Funny how when a boy is put on the spot, his macawis counterparts cry "feminists" like that is a great insult or disease. By the way, quote me one thing u said that constitutes a debate...lets see...hm...unstable, feminist, ....gee, didnt know personal digs were an art of debate? I only dished out to u what u so weakly gave, so don't cry sarcasm or stereotyping, it was only to prove a point. cheers!

Xiddig, ur definetly entitled to ur opinion, but how can u judge someone for their color? Allah created people in different shades, creeds, colors, etc...and its not anyone's fault or choosing what color they are. how about you judge someone for their character/deen, rather than their skin color? p.s.-i hope u know muslims aren't just arabs or somalis, but they come in all different shades and colors. And if our great religion doesn't believe in discrimination, why should u?

Kinda sad when a boy is made to look like a fool, whatever will he come up with next? Im glad u realized w/o a strong woman leading ur leash ur just a lost lil puppy.

By me pointing out his faults is disrespectful? look at his comment and look at mine, if mine is what made u see disrespect, then may u both live in ur blessed lil'world.

I did read all the posts everyone has posted b4 I posted my own view, but I still fail to see how a mere disagreement warrants such an aggressive and idiotic attack.I see that you missed the whole point, its not about what u two said to each other, its about respecting one anothers views w/o u dear sir coming out with wild attacks. B4 u get on ur high horse, re-examine ur comment to her and i bet the only reason ur being defensive is that she exposed ur childish comments. So once again, be a man and just admit to ur mistake, instead of attacking those of us who found ur comments extremely offensive to another human being. May you one day see the light, if not, carry on in ignorance.Im done enlightening, the un-enlightenable. Cheers!

Ud, ur the epidomy of intelligence, once ur done ur one sided book, may i have u dedicated to me so i can learn from ur highness? thxs!

Qac Qaac, be fair bro, the man clearly embarrased himself by sending her such a hateful and mean spirited PM. I think as a bro who prides himself as religious and respect oriented, u should reprimand ur fellow brother and teach him the proper way to talk to a sister, regardless if they do not agree on certain views. there was no need for him to practically accuse her of being an instrument for a black man's pleasure, for lack of not knowing how else to describe his message. I for one, im glad she posted this because it shows that ppl act a different way with the general public and another in private. p.s.-i think she deserves an apology, there was no need for it.

wow...once again, u proved ur mental superiority...bravo...i knew there was a reason i went to see a shrink, unstable huh..thxs for the tip. let me get back to the kitchen and think about ur comment. p.s.-pass the khat and french vanilla..i wanna be u when i grow up

Socrates, since when did refusing a ride become a moral crime? get over it, she said no, im sure another xalimo will be glad to accept ur "hospitality". p.s.-u should be kinda relived, since some men believe that women use em for their car and this girl clearly prefered the wind to ur passat. cheers

courage to fight? i didnt know courage and murder were synonymous, but once again, my paranoid futile female brain is overworking...oh where oh where have i put my apron? U men can agree to disagree? really? and why did all those senseless wars happened, b/c u agreed to disagree and live in peace? Gee, i guess someone gotta explain the somali civil war to me. -just b/c i responded to ur blatantly sexist comment doesnt have anything to do with paranoia, have u ever heard of someone also expressin their thoughts without u bunchin' ur macawis in a knot? **** will someone direct me to the kitchen? I got issues to resolve while i cook and men fight -in any case, going back to the original topic, i think a men's forum is needed, and i may have asked for it once or twice b4, because clearly this world is populated by 2 genders (a few transgendered here and there) and both views need space to be aired. But if they dont have issues, i think we need a double women's forum, its been brought to my attention by a reliable source that we need it. cheers!

Funny Underdog that you'd say men don't have enough issues, when in reality, most of the worlds problems and all of the world wars were inspired by men. But what do i know, i guess im consumed by too many issues that requires my futile brain to overwork.

"most romantic men in the world"...lol..isnt that a bit farfetched OG? come on...reality check pls , somebody, anybody. "a link btwn too much romance and mental illness"...i gotta hand it to u, u figured out a way to get out of romancing ur partner, b/c "too much" will lead u to a padded wall and a mental hospital. The length some men will go to amazes me...keep up the good work, and keep 'em coming, im ready for more laughs.

I think it would be idiotic to say love is all you need in a partner and at the same time, how can you love someone that lacks all the basic requirements, ie-smart, kind, deen, etc... Love doesn't guarantee you will get a responsible partner, won't provide shelter, food, won't guarantee that it will last. What you need in addition to love is trust, w/o it its' like building a home with no base, now that structure won't stand. Love is the icing on the cake, after you find all that you need in a partner. Peace

OG Girl, good point. I don't think anyone should blame another for their choice of a partner, because at the end of the day, its their life and their choosing. Whether its somali, indian, chinese, ant, etc...I am basing my choice of partner on their deen to begin with, not their nationality. Of course, it would be much easier to marry a somali because they understand your culture but only Allah knows what he has in store for us, so its pointless so say yay or nay.Plus, things that come too easy aren't cherished as much. Many ppl marry another race because what they were looking for they couldnt find within their own and more power to them, as long as they are happy. Back to OG girl's point, seems that some women and men (somali) marry for the wrong reasons outside their race, some of which was previously stated, and its funny how when a man marries a non-somali no fuss is made about it, but when a sista chooses the same, somehow she's looked down upon in a certain way. That's my 2 cents.

Since somalis are dispersed in many parts of the world, I don't see the harm in those that would like to meet their fellow people through the net. I know a couple that met in the cyber world and are currently married, so maybe the person of your dreams is just a website away...lol..who knows... Peace

Gediid...here's a novel idea...how about you get into the kitchen and experiment by cooking yourself any dish you'd like? Ohh....the horror.... :eek: I know...a man such as you does not lower himself to the apron haven, but would rather be the king each day served the meal of his choosing... Pls, dont whine about what is cooked for you, you're lucky that someone is even providing you with food, personally, id give you a map to the kitchen and tell u, break a leg..literally... I'm a firm believer that cooking is a skill that both gender needs to know, whether for their own good or for the good of their family and shouldn't rest solely upon one shoulder. p.s.-qac u single? ..j/k Peace

Hello sista, I think the way you are wearing it is fine and that you are correct when the quran says that cover up, but ur face, hands are allowed to show. I think the way your family is wearing it, personally for me, is a bit extreme, but then again, to each his own, as long as they realize that the way you are wearing it is correct as well, you are not exposing anything, therefore, i say keep wearing it the way you are. Inshallah, when i start wearing it, I will for sure wear a hijab, not the jilbab, which is definetly not required. Hope they ease up on you. Peace

Sophist, u looked at my statement just from the surface and neglected to see below it. When i said someone u would speak to, it doesnt mean that just because they are average or ugly that i wouldnt address them in a courteous manner, i meant speaking to them with the idea that they are a potential mate/partner, so before u bunch ur trousers in a bunch, look at things for what they mean rather than what ud like to decipher them as. Peace

Looks do matter, but only because in order for u to give the person a chance to get to know them or even speak to them, looks have to attract you to them, and fortunately, the world is populated with ppl with many diverse ideas about what looks good to them, or what may not look good to them. So there is someone out there for everyone, whether they are stunning or average, but as ppl have already pointed out, after the initial interest in their looks, their personality, intellect, sense of humour, have to also be up to par, otherwise, looks alone won't make for a lasting relationship. Personally, i have met cute guys who lacked in personality, and others that have a good combo for both, and some average joes that can make me laugh more than any cute face, but in the end, its all about a balance of both. Peace

Dawaco, if u want a cohesive society, then u need to stop pointing the finger that some ppl have become "westernized" and accept ur fellow ppl for what they are today.Many didnt chose to come here, and now that we are, I for one i am glad that I am here, able to take advantage of things that i wouldnt have the chance to back home. And since when was being educated like another astute person pointed out, wanting personal independence, ambitious, looking out for the future become a western phenomenon? Aren't all human beings searching for the same regardless where they are from? Instead of all this meaningless talk about how to become or who is more somali than the rest, we need to think about how to become better muslims, cause in the end, ur not gonna go b4 God and have ur somali(nism) as a shield, what will save u will be ur deen. p.s.-being educated, forward thinking, etc...can all benefit ur ppl in the end, when u raise young ones and send the message back home, that u need to accept urselves and not worry about qabil, which is the real cause of the downfall of somalia and until that is rectified, it will remain a rubble. Peace

I think it's all about how u use ur clan membership/tribe...does u use it to see urself as superior to another or do u use it as an identification tool, as God has already described in the quran, stating that clan is there for us to recognize each other, but it was never intended to divide ppl/country. The pitfalls of tribalism we've already seen in the civil war, where ppl are killing each other until today, just because one belongs to this clan and the other to a rival clan. Since some somalis have shown that they use tribe as a means to put themselves higher than others, in the end, let's all ban together under the cloak of islam, rather than let petty clanism divide and further rupture our society, especially opening up the minds of the next generation. Personally, i dont believe in tribalism/clanism, simply because it has been misused/abused so much in the past and still today, compared to what it was intended for, therefore, id say to the next generation, of course know where u came from, but dont let it interfere in ur society, as to who u'll marry, have as a friend, etc.... see each other as muslim brothers and sisters, and let clan hatred and bitterness reside in the past. Peace

As some others have pointed out, sista how can u plan to get married this yr w/o a potential groom(s) in mind? First, there needs to be a potential mate for u to discuss marriage with but never heard of the reverse done, setting the wedding date w/o a mate. But good luck sista in ur search, hope u find the man of ur dreams b4 2005. There are problems though when one sets a limit to when they will marry, because u may have to settle for someone less worthy of u just because u are in a rush for marriage, so id say, take ur time and Allah only knows when u are destined to marry, if at all. That being said , Rudy has a point in that, of course God has already planned our future for us, but that doesnt mean u can sit back and do nothing. Be proactive in ur search because ur knight in shining turban won't come knocking on ur door. Keep ur eyes open and ur heart as well, because all too often ppl miss out on a great person that was there all along b4 their eyes. There is someone out there for everyone, perhaps more than one, and ppl find their mate(s) at dif times in their life, so don't judge ur own time by when friends around u are getting married and having kids. If u look further at ppl who get married young, too often they get divorced b/c they have rushed too quickly so save urself some heartache and take ur time finding a mate if that is what Allah has planned for u. p.s.-never settle, even if u want children by a certain age and dont follow the somali notion that a woman who is an oldie by 25 if she isnt married with 10 kids. Peace

They can luv u as dearly as they want, but if ur heart is not in it, what's the point of giving a chance to something that doesn't exist? Also it won't be fair to them because u have no interest in them and u are only with them b/c they love u, a one sided relationship doesn't work, in fact, that's not even a relationship, its more like u are using them for the feelings they give u w/o reciprocating them, maybe because the person u wanna be with isn't able to provide that for u. Who wants to be with someone who desn't love them back? doesnt make sense to me. Why would u be with someone u don't love just because they love u? Some say that with time comes love, but the initial attraction/chemistry has to be there for u to give them a chance to grow on u, but for most ppl, u know initially if that's a person ud like to get to know better or if its not ur type at all. As fas the them insisting that in time u would like them back, its kinda sad that they would stick around for feelings that u may never give back to them, so those ppl i say move on and expend that energy and love to someone who wants it from them, not on an imaginary "would be lover". Peace

I had a great time as well, the presenters were excellent and very enlightening and i do not if any of u sistas felt the same, but going to the convention makes u feel proud and priviledged to be born a muslim and being there can only strenghten ones' belief. I also enjoyed Imam Zaid's lectures, he was very brilliant, delivered his message in a way that engaged the audience, so was Imam Quick who's main message was taking a stand in life instead of us just waiting for everything to be solved for us. Hamza yusuf's linguistic delivery about the miracles of Islam was great as well, especially how he put it all together at the end, and last but not least the Sheikh Abdullah who spoke about women playing an important role in an islamic society and also talked about the importance of maintaining our deen all the time, be it good times or bad. I missed the woman speaker Ammenah i believe her name is so if any of u can tell me what she spoke about and also the famed and well respected Tariq ramadan i was too late for, i would appreciate ur comments. I was disappointed in Khalid's speech, not in the message but in the way the translaters were so late in transmitting his message on screen and often times, didnt write all he said, i would have understood it more if the translation was more speedy, but nonethless, from what I saw in the lil' translation, he talked about the Prophet (saw) and his companions, their hijra, and tied it in to assimilation in the west, for us not to be scared of it, but to have a balance. Most memorable quotes/ideas for me were: 1-"Allah promised that extremists would perish" (sheik abdullah) 2-"a real test is having ur home bulldozed over like in palestine, and a lil test is getting stopped at the airport cause we're muslim" (Imam Zaid)-talking about the importance of getting our priorities straight, that of course we will face hard times but not to equate it to the eral hard times happening in kashmir, Chechnya, Palestine, etc... 3-"dont judge the next person cause tomorrow they can be the best of muslims" (abdullah i believe, correct me if im wrong) What about for u guys? what are ur memorable moments or ideas u got out of the conference? overall, i enjoyed it, found it to be in line to what i always believed and it taught me more new things as well, the speakers overall were great and im looking forward to next yr. peace

Is it just me or is Og Moti sounding pro-accuser and has no sentiment for the victim, in the sense that with all the things posted lately about girls and rape, he seemed to be one of the only ones accusing the victim of "asking" for it, and now he's here, again being on the side of the accuser once again...im getting the creepy feeling that whoever claims they were raped, if they are close relative to og would have a hard time getting support and that's kinda sad bro...hope u really take a look back at all ur post about rape and pls find me where u have one ounce of sympathy for the victim instead of being the one who will purchase the ticket for the victim to flee. As someone else suggested it, b4 u charge in here with ur pro-somali male attitude, pls re-read the article because his semen wa sproven to be on the girl and thus he confessed...at least to "consensual" sex...which wasn't consistent with her bruising, and he did act like a guilty person by not coming up with the story to begin with and having to change it later it... so my advice to u is dont be blinded by ur ideology that the woman tempted him...ur actually displaying the chritian idea that the woman is the temptress, got adam kicked out of heaven when in our blessed religion, the man is held accountable for his actions and not measured by what the woman did....so practice islam and not christianity... -of course ppl may sometimes be falsely accused but with dna available these days, most ppl are exonerated and believe it or not Og, somali men are still capable of rape like any other men...wow!shocking i know...but it happends...so deal with the issue and how to better educated our society, and not just say no blindly the woman is lying, cause frankly ur starting to sound paranoid..."every one is out to get the somali man, woman ask for it, even if they show an ankle" peace